Epoxy

[shmokes]

What type of glue or epoxy or whatever would you suggest to fill in a countersink hole for a carriage bolt?  I have carriage bolts that will be countersunk and then laminated over.  So basically, I need to make sure that the screw never, ever, ever, decides to break free and start spinning in the hole.  Cos it can never be replaced and I'll never have access to the hole again (short of tearing off the laminate and redoing the hole thing).

So, I figure once I've got the bolt all tightened down I may as well fill up the hole with something to add a layer of strength and set everything in place a little more before applying laminate over the top of it.  Any suggestions?

[SirPeale]

Bondo would work.

[RandyT]

Just use any garden variety epoxy putty.  You know, the stuff that looks like a toxic twinkie with 2 parts in a roll form.  Knead some up, wrap it around the underside of the head and stuff it into a countersunk hole.  Then stuff another gob down on top of the bolt head and use a putty knife to scrape it flush before it hardens.  You can even sand it afterward if you need to.  Those bolts shouldn't budge after that.

RandyT

[shmokes]

Just use any garden variety epoxy putty.  You know, the stuff that looks like a toxic twinkie with 2 parts in a roll form.  Knead some up, wrap it around the underside of the head and stuff it into a countersunk hole.  Then stuff another gob down on top of the bolt head and use a putty knife to scrape it flush before it hardens.  You can even sand it afterward if you need to.  Those bolts shouldn't budge after that.

RandyT

Thanks for the advice.  The stuff I used was the stuff that comes in the hypodermic syringe looking thing.  That's what I assumed you were talking about, but now I notice that you said in "roll" form, rather than in "tube" form.  At any rate, it's rated for 2500 lbs. which was the strongest stuff I saw at Ace, and the packaging said it was good on metal and wood.  So it seems like it should work. 

I'll be heading back to buy some more today, though.  The stuff says that you can work with it for half an hour before it sets, so I mixed up about 3/4 of the container for the work I was doing.  Five minutes later it had hardened to the point that it couldn't be used.   What I was able to use is all set up now, though, and it looks really strong.  BTW, I also looked for Bondo while I was there -- not for this job, but just to have on hand for repairs and gap filling, etc.  Couldn't find it.  Should it be in the same section as the caulks and adhesives?  Does it come in a can or a tube?

[SirPeale]

I don't know what store you're looking at, but most mega-marts have it in the auto section.

[ChadTower]

Does it come in a can or a tube?

It does come in tubes but mostly you'll get it thusly:

[2600]

What are you doing that you need to countersink a carriage bolt?  Perhaps there is an easier alternative.

[shmokes]

I want to be able to disassemble my cab so it can be moved in pieces.  So instead of screwing everything together, I'm using carriage bolts on the panels, which attach to the base and beams/braces with nuts.  There may be a better way to do it.  I thought about using T-nuts, and counter-sinking them in the sides, but they were difficult to find locally in large numbers.  Also, since I'm laminating the side-panels, I was slightly worried that someone might accidentally use the wrong bolt in one of the holes and dent or punch a hole in the laminate.

I have pretty much no woodworking experience at all.  Whenever I need to do something I just stare at my project and walk in circles around it until a solution pops into my head.  Carriage bolts may be a terrible choice for what I'm doing, but it was the solution that popped into my head.  So I tested it on some scrap wood and it seemed like it would do the trick.

[shmokes]

Also, since I used carriage bolts to attach my joysticks, I used the same method on my control panels.  I covered my control panels in laminate (Formica), and I didn't want anything showing but the buttons and sticks.  So I recessed the bottom of the panels and bottom-mounted the joysticks, but countersunk the bolts on top so that I could put the laminate over the bolts, hiding my handiwork. 

[2600]

How thick is the wood?  How much is left after countersinking?  

Seems like there might not be much wood left to support what you are doing.  Also, I would think that there is more chance for damage if you put a panel down (laminated and with the bolts in).  If someone were to step on it or hit the bolt or something it may damage the laminate as well.


For CPs, I recommend T-Nuts or threaded inserts (I think that's the name). 

[SavannahLion]

How thick is the wood?  How much is left after countersinking?  

Seems like there might not be much wood left to support what you are doing.  Also, I would think that there is more chance for damage if you put a panel down (laminated and with the bolts in).  If someone were to step on it or hit the bolt or something it may damage the laminate as well.

That's kind of what I was thinking. My father's table saw is constructed in a similar manner. The whole thing comes apart and what's left behind is a welded frame. The perpendicular counter sunk bolts make it difficult to store and/or transport. Another concern is inadvertantly stripping the threads (thankfully I haven't done) and replacing them would likely involve drilling out new holes.

It's too late now, but glue/nail a sub frame to the panel with bolts that run parallel with the panel instead of perpendicular might work. No need for countersinking bolts and a greater choice bolt selection can be had. However, this technique would require more exacting woodwork to ensure the sub frame mate well with the main frame. Damage risk can be minimized when the panels are removed, storage and transport will be easier, and replacing stripped bolts would be easier.

[ChadTower]

shmokes, how often do you figure you'll ever need to take this thing apart?

[shmokes]

shmokes, how often do you figure you'll ever need to take this thing apart?

Probably three or four times in its life.  The only time it would be taken apart is when I'm moving to a new house, or if it needs to go into a room where its size/weight would make it difficult or impossible to maneuver intact.  It's on casters and has cabinet handles installed on the back, so just general moving around will be a breeze.

How thick is the wood?  How much is left after countersinking?  

It's 3/4" thick.  There still seems to be quite a lot after countersinking.  Plus, the holes are completely filled with 2500 lbs epoxy, which should somewhat minimize any structural integrity loss I would think.  I certainly hope it's okay, cos the deed is done.     FWIW, I'm supporting each side-panel with eight large bolts -- half inch or so in diameter.  I've included a photo-realistic rendering to give you an idea of how I'm supporting it.  The red X's indicate bolt locations.

[shmokes]

Oh yeah, I'll also be mounting the monitor with the mounting plates 1up developed and briefly sold.  I imagine that should add to the rigidity of the frame.

[ChadTower]

2500lb epoxy doesn't matter if the material it is holding onto is rated for a fraction of that.

[shmokes]

2500lb epoxy doesn't matter if the material it is holding onto is rated for a fraction of that.

Heh . . . the epoxy isn't meant to make up for an inherently unsound design.  I only said that it would mitigate structural integrity loss due to counter sinking.  And, obviously, it will do exactly that (and keep the carriage bolts from breaking free and spinning in their holes).  For that matter, I'm still not convinced that the design is inherently unsound.  The side panels are attached to an extremely sturdy base using eight large bolts.  And eight more bolts hook the panels to braces keeping the panels rigid and vertical.  I mean, I can add more bolts, but what's already there feels like overkill if anything.  It's feels very solid and sturdy. 

Now, I don't have much experience with woodworking.  I've built a light table, a shelf and . . . well, nothing else comes to mind.  This is my first arcade cabinet.  I'm not speaking from experience.  But are you looking at that and honestly saying, "Based on my experience, that's not enough," or are you looking at it and saying, "Hmm . . . I've never seen it done like that before so it probably won't work."

[ChadTower]

No one has said it's unsound... it was mentioned that there are better ways to do it.  If you don't anticipate it being taken apart more than a couple of times it's probably not worth the effort to redesign it.

[shmokes]

No one has said it's unsound...

Ah . . . that's what I thought you meant by the comment on the material.  As in, "The epoxy isn't going to make up for the fact that the material you're using is inadequate."  Sorry.  I hate when I'm sensitive.   

[ChadTower]

Ah . . . that's what I thought you meant by the comment on the material.  As in, "The epoxy isn't going to make up for the fact that the material you're using is inadequate."  Sorry.  I hate when I'm sensitive.   

Yeah.  Wasn't saying the material is inadequate... but you repeated 2500lb a couple of times and it appeared as if you thought it was actually going to support 2500lb.   

[TOK]

The idea of a take-apart cab is cool, but I don't think you're really going to need to do that. I recently got a Golden Tee 2005, which is a 450 pound behemoth and you can get it in and out by just removing the control panel. I have one old Bally/Midway cab that I had to pop the door trim to get into the room (interior door), and even doing that was far quicker than taking a cab apart.

Good to read you're working on a cab though! 

[ChadTower]

The idea of a take-apart cab is cool, but I don't think you're really going to need to do that. I recently got a Golden Tee 2005, which is a 450 pound behemoth and you can get it in and out by just removing the control panel. I have one old Bally/Midway cab that I had to pop the door trim to get into the room (interior door), and even doing that was far quicker than taking a cab apart.

Stairs.  Some guys don't have help when moving things like this.

[shmokes]

Much of my decision to build this way was based on a very specific reason.  The room in which it was going to go required negotiating a zig-zag in a narrow hallway.  At its dimensions it could not be done (and it's not even a particularly big cab).  I could have assembled it in the room, but it was just an apartment I was renting and I knew that I'd be moving out when I graduated.  I either had to make it significantly smaller, make it modular, or design it so it could be disassembled.

As it turned out, the cab got put on the back burner and I no longer live in that apartment.  But I'm still renting a place and going to school.  So even though I could easily put the cab in any room I wanted to in my current place, I know that I'll be moving again in a couple years and who knows what I'll be faced with there?  Not only that, but I already had the cabinet designed and the hardware purchased and all the panels and studs cut out.  By the time I got back to my cab this summer it wouldn't have made much sense to abandon my design after I'd already put so much work and money into it.  Especially since it may come in VERY handy when I move again in just a couple years.

[TOK]

The idea of a take-apart cab is cool, but I don't think you're really going to need to do that. I recently got a Golden Tee 2005, which is a 450 pound behemoth and you can get it in and out by just removing the control panel. I have one old Bally/Midway cab that I had to pop the door trim to get into the room (interior door), and even doing that was far quicker than taking a cab apart.

Stairs.  Some guys don't have help when moving things like this.

C'mon, Shmokes must have at least one friend. 
There are also dozens of basement arcade guys that manage with dedicated cabs.

[ChadTower]

C'mon, Shmokes must have at least one friend. 
There are also dozens of basement arcade guys that manage with dedicated cabs.

Possibly, but he did just move all the way across the country.  And basement arcade guys own their building, usually with a fairly easy entrance.  It's a different story in an apt building common area with stairwells. 

[shmokes]

Not to mention that not everything has to be born out of absolute necessity.     Just because in a pinch I can call any number of people to help me move extraordinarily heavy furniture, doesn't mean it isn't cool to not need to.  It's not like your friends relish the idea of coming over to your house to help you lift an arcade cabinet up a flight of stairs.

Plus, no matter how many friends I have, I can't get a cab through a hallway and around corners that it is too big for (unless one of them is a general contractor, I suppose, and can rebuild the walls we knock out).

What's going on here?  Doesn't anybody think this is a cool feature/idea?   

[ChadTower]

What's going on here?  Doesn't anybody think this is a cool feature/idea?   

I see nothing wrong with it given the circumstances.  I probably would have built something more like a wide cabaret that stood on a separate base but that's not better.  It's just different.

[shmokes]

I really don't think you understand, TOK.  I didn't sit down and think about how I could reconcile my lonely, solitary life with an arcade hobby and come up with a cab design that could be broken down.  It was impossible to get this into the room it was meant for without knocking down a wall.  No amount of muscle can gracefully solve that problem.  If I need someone to help me move a piece of furniture, I can just call a friend and get the help.  My cabinet design has virtually nothing to do with that.

[TOK]

I really don't think you understand, TOK.  I didn't sit down and think about how I could reconcile my lonely, solitary life with an arcade hobby and come up with a cab design that could be broken down.  It was impossible to get this into the room it was meant for without knocking down a wall.  No amount of muscle can gracefully solve that problem.  If I need someone to help me move a piece of furniture, I can just call a friend and get the help.  My cabinet design has virtually nothing to do with that.

Understood. 

[extendedplayarcade]

Does it come in a can or a tube?

It does come in tubes but mostly you'll get it thusly:

How funny is that on the Can of bondo is a Ford.  Ford = Full Of Rusty Dents

I have nothing against those cars or the people that drive them so please don't turn my little joke into a whole ford vs. chevy dealio.

You could use mighty putty (as seen on tv) link
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00113OYPW?tag=alltenback-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B00113OYPW&adid=0XB6A64JP1T554PGAWZK&


Works well.  There is also a company called Pig that makes a two part epoxy but they are more expensive.

Brent
www.extendedplayarcade.com

[shmokes]

I just got a regular epoxy that comes in one of those double-barrel syringe things.  Aside from wasting a ton of it the first time because the package said after mixing it together I'd get half an hour out of it and I actually got more like 5-6 minutes out of it, it seems to work really well.  I don't even mix it up before applying.  I just squirt it into the countersink holes and mix it up on the spot.  It seems to stay tacky forever, though.