What buttons are really necessary?

[johnmartin]

Hi all,

I am in the process of designing my MAME cab and have a question concerning buttons.  I am big on the classics like Galaga, Defender, Asteroids, Tempest, etc,  and never really got into the fighting type games other than Mortal Kombat.  My wife and daughter like stuff like Frogger and Pac Man.  With that said, what buttons do I really need?

And as far as admin goes, I plan on having a CP with a keyboard tray and mouse underneath so do I really need any admin buttons other than pause or exit?

I see many of the CPs on this site have 6 buttons on P1 and P2 and 4 usually on P3 and P4.  Many have trackballs but I am going to forego a trackball for now.

I am actually thinking of going with a joystick and 4 buttons for P1 and P2, a spinner with 3 buttons, and a dedicated 4 way for my daughter.  P1 coin, P1 button, pause, exit, P2, P2 coin, and flipper buttons on the side.  Anyone think I should go otherwise and why?  I am so new to this I really don't know what is best for me so all options are considered.

Thanks.

John

[javeryh]

Where to begin... there is no right answer really.  I would say that if you are going to allow for Mortal Kombat (5 buttons), add the 6th button so all the other fighters are playable.  Also, I don't think you need 3 buttons for your spinner - there aren't many games that use them all (unless there is something specific you are looking to play).  Plus, you can map them to other buttons on the CP.

I'd also look into using Ultimarc 360s for your two joysticks - this eliminates the need for a dedicated 4-way or to worry about restrictor plates and stuff on the 2 main sticks.  You just pick a game and the stick behaves as it should.

[Teknique]

Pause and Exit are quite helpful.  Make the exit button a shifted function so accidental presses will do nothing.  (example - pressing both pause and exit will exit)

shift your P1 and P2 coin buttons to cut down on clutter (example- Pressing P1 start and P1 B1 will give you credit)

If spinner goes in middle, link your buttons to exisiting P2 buttons.  

Why are you using three buttons for spinner?  

Tek

[ark_ader]

I like the button placements for Asteroids, which I can easily add two more for Defender.  This gives me excellent placement and helps me to refrain from slouching.  A wrongly designed CP can hurt you in the long run.

As I find with the Xarcade, there are too many buttons, and I find I hit some by accident.  I think your idea on having the admin buttons are excellent.  I'm not sure about the 3 buttons for the spinner.  A trackball maybe, but I think that is a little excessive.

Who needs admin buttons on the top?  That is asking for trouble.  I don't want to inadvertently ding myself out a very good game or high score because of some dumb admin button.

There again its a personal preference.

You can always redesign another CP if that one doesn't work for you. 

[lettuce]

If your going to be using an I-PAC, then all admin buttons can be added to its shift function, with P1 Start usually being the shift key, ie....

Hold down P1 Start and then press P2 start will quit the game
Hold down P1 Start and the P1 Button 1 with add a credit
Hold down P1 Start and Pull right on P1 Stick will Pause the game

etc....

[johnmartin]

Where to begin... there is no right answer really.  I would say that if you are going to allow for Mortal Kombat (5 buttons), add the 6th button so all the other fighters are playable.  Also, I don't think you need 3 buttons for your spinner - there aren't many games that use them all (unless there is something specific you are looking to play).  Plus, you can map them to other buttons on the CP.

I'd also look into using Ultimarc 360s for your two joysticks - this eliminates the need for a dedicated 4-way or to worry about restrictor plates and stuff on the 2 main sticks.  You just pick a game and the stick behaves as it should.

I was also thinking that adding the 6th button would not really anything up so I was planning on adding it.

I was thinking the 3 buttons for the spinner would be for games like Asteroids.  Fire, thrust, hyperspace.  I honestly don't remember if Asteroids was spinner or buttons for rotate.  If it was buttons I would only need 2 buttons with the spinner for games like Tempest.

[johnmartin]

Pause and Exit are quite helpful.  Make the exit button a shifted function so accidental presses will do nothing.  (example - pressing both pause and exit will exit)

shift your P1 and P2 coin buttons to cut down on clutter (example- Pressing P1 start and P1 B1 will give you credit)

If spinner goes in middle, link your buttons to exisiting P2 buttons.  

Why are you using three buttons for spinner?  

Tek

Good idea on using a shifted button press for exit.  Will definitely do that.

[johnmartin]

If your going to be using an I-PAC, then all admin buttons can be added to its shift function, with P1 Start usually being the shift key, ie....

Hold down P1 Start and then press P2 start will quit the game
Hold down P1 Start and the P1 Button 1 with add a credit
Hold down P1 Start and Pull right on P1 Stick will Pause the game

etc....

Yes, I will be using an I-Pac.  In fact it should be here very soon.  Not sure exactly when but it was ordered last week.

[johnmartin]

And another question.  What is typical spacing for the buttons?  I have a drawings with them spaced out at 1.75" center to center but others I have seen use 1.5".  Is there a defacto standard?

[javeryh]

And another question.  What is typical spacing for the buttons?  I have a drawings with them spaced out at 1.75" center to center but others I have seen use 1.5".  Is there a defacto standard?

1.75"?  Yikes.  That sounds huge to me.  I space all my buttons 1-3/8" on center.  A lot of people do 1-1/2" - it all comes down to personal preference.  I suggest making a CP out of cardboard or an old pizza box or whatever to see if you like the layout.  I went through 5 revisions on my last CP and all I wanted was one joystick, 3 action buttons and 4 admin buttons...

[johnmartin]

Again.  Another good idea to use some old cardboard.  I have a pile in my garage.  Here is a quick layout of the CP. Buttons are spaced at 1.5".  Along the top is:

P1, Pause, Spinner, Button, Button, Exit, P2

Next row is:

8 way, 6 buttons, 4 way, 8 way, 4 buttons

I already have the joysticks so I am going to use them.  If I find that I do not like them I will upgrade to something like the Ultimarcs

[Ginsu Victim]

You mention foregoing the trackball for now, but it appears as though you have room. If you're going to do it later, you might as well do it now, and just move the spinner to the top.

[johnmartin]

You mention foregoing the trackball for now, but it appears as though you have room. If you're going to do it later, you might as well do it now, and just move the spinner to the top.

I'd not sure i will ever want one.  The only games I can remember playing with one that I liked were Missile Command and Marble Madness.  I really do not like Centipede and have never played Golden Tee.  What I may do is to make the dedicated 4-way a removable panel so that I can swap out if need be once I get the money to buy a new trackball.

[Ginsu Victim]

Mostly I was going by your use of the words "for now," which made it sound as though you'd install one in the future. I gotcha now, though...

[Jack Burton]

If you're not worried about fighting games then I would go with three buttons per player, two start buttons and  one extra button for coin.  The second player coin isn't neccesary in most games and can always be set to a shift funtion if neccesary.  The less buttons the you have on a control panel the cleaner it looks and just feels better to me. 

[miles2912]

It's all about how many 'admin' buttons you want on your cp.  Some people like it clean and others don't mind extra buttons.  I am in to practical over aesthetics and went with P1 and P2 start, pause, coin in and 2 mouse buttons.  Exit is shifted on my cab.

Just helped a few friends build their cabs last week and they had p1 and p2, exit, coin in and pause on their cab.  As well as one mouse buttons.

Bare minimum you could P1 and P2 + coin.  Everything else can be shifted... although it always brings a smile to my face to drop in a quarter and hear the clunk!

[javeryh]

In my experience, shifted buttons for necessary functions leads to a billion annoying questions from guests - even with instruction cards.  Make it as user friendly as possible.

[Ginsu Victim]

I keep the shifted functions simple for my guests, plus I have instruction cards explaining basic functions and button layouts for consoles. Though I have several shifted, none can be hit by accident (trust me, I've had kids test this!), and the only one they know is EXIT. (P1 Start + Pause)

[protokatie]

I myself have done the "cardboard layout thing" and it is a great way to test out layout designs. But, before doing that a good way to get ideas is to use MAMEROOM's Control Panel Designer program. Awesome way to play around with layouts without even having to murder pizza boxes 

BTW, anyone have a direct link to the mameroom DL? (I realise that it is somewhere on mameroom.com, but am too lazy to look )

[TalkingBull]

This thread got me thinking about something.  Why do some folks have a 7th button on their 1 & 2 player positions?  It looks like a thumb button or something.  I haven't run across a game in MAME that requires 7 puttons...  Just curious... also, why only 4 buttons for 3 & 4 players?  I have a 2-player cab with 6 buttons on each and again... just curious.

[Diewrecked]

BTW, anyone have a direct link to the mameroom DL? (I realise that it is somewhere on mameroom.com, but am too lazy to look )

http://www.mameroom.com/files/cpd_setup.zip

[TOK]

This thread got me thinking about something.  Why do some folks have a 7th button on their 1 & 2 player positions?  It looks like a thumb button or something.  I haven't run across a game in MAME that requires 7 puttons...  Just curious... also, why only 4 buttons for 3 & 4 players?  I have a 2-player cab with 6 buttons on each and again... just curious.

If you do that, your bottom row of buttons mimics the default Neo Geo layout. I have that setup, but like the thumb button more for Defender than anything.

I have no admin buttons on the panel. Coin up uses either coins or a hidden button in the player 2 coin return, the other stuff is hidden below the panel.

[cmoses]

This thread got me thinking about something.  Why do some folks have a 7th button on their 1 & 2 player positions?  It looks like a thumb button or something.  I haven't run across a game in MAME that requires 7 puttons...  Just curious... also, why only 4 buttons for 3 & 4 players?  I have a 2-player cab with 6 buttons on each and again... just curious.

If you do that, your bottom row of buttons mimics the default Neo Geo layout. I have that setup, but like the thumb button more for Defender than anything.

I have no admin buttons on the panel. Coin up uses either coins or a hidden button in the player 2 coin return, the other stuff is hidden below the panel.

Can you show us some pictures of how this is setup?

[TOK]

This thread got me thinking about something.  Why do some folks have a 7th button on their 1 & 2 player positions?  It looks like a thumb button or something.  I haven't run across a game in MAME that requires 7 puttons...  Just curious... also, why only 4 buttons for 3 & 4 players?  I have a 2-player cab with 6 buttons on each and again... just curious.

If you do that, your bottom row of buttons mimics the default Neo Geo layout. I have that setup, but like the thumb button more for Defender than anything.

I have no admin buttons on the panel. Coin up uses either coins or a hidden button in the player 2 coin return, the other stuff is hidden below the panel.

Can you show us some pictures of how this is setup?

Sure... Here is the coin button inside the player 2 coin return. I wanted to be able to quickly coin up the game without quarters if necessary. This is nice if you're playing something that you know is going to need lots of continues, or if I just want to rack up 30 credits and leave the game running for company. This is just a small momentary button. I drilled a small hole in the base of the return and put it through. It doesn't affect the operation of the coin return itself. Some people also just rig the return reject mechanism so hitting it puts up a credit.


Here is the back. This can be tied right in at the coin door, but I took it straight up to the IPAC.


Here is an example of the admin buttons hidden under a panel. This is on another cab, just because they're easiest to see. On my bartop, I have them recessed into the side. Every panel after my first attempt has been clean, with no indications the game isn't authentic. Just a personal preference.