Randy, Andy and anyone else: Button Hole Trackball !

[RayB]

Speaking of button hole trackballs (in that awful spinner thread), here's an idea to get the ball rolling (*badum bump*):

Find a plastic bottle cap that has a little round bump right in the middle (like a hemisphere, about 1/8th of an inch in diameter. Sorry to be so vague... I think I got the one I have from a water bottle). Otherwise just try whatever water bottle cap you can find...

Next, take a pinball ball (preferrably new). It should fit pretty well in the upside down bottle cap. hold the cap on your desk with one hand and now spin the ball with the other...

Feels pretty decent doesn't it?? Imagine it on low-friction rollers. The weight of a pinball is heavy enough that on rollers you'd get enough spin to enjoy most trackball games (other than perhaps Golden Tee).

So that's the proof of concept basically. (I'm not suggesting an actual trackball can be made from a bottle cap. That's just to demonstrate how it feels using a pin ball). If it can't be crammed into a button-hole form factor, it could probably at least be designed to be rather compact ( 2" x 2" footprint?) or fit in a button hole on metal control panels.

Have at it guys! I don't care about credit! Someone manufacture it! 

[SavannahLion]

If it can't be crammed into a button-hole form factor, it could probably at least be designed to be rather compact ( 2" x 2" footprint?) or fit in a button hole on metal control panels.

Pimple of a trackball 

Something a bit more constructive than above.

I've used those super tiny trackballs, like what used to be (still?) on laptops. The ball itself seems to be right around the size of a button and quite frankly.... they're annoying as hell. They're better than the idiot eraser nubs and marginally better than the touch pads, but not anywhere near as good as the big boys.

I've never really tried it in a gaming application though, but my biggest grief was the lack of balance of fine control and distance movement. It's hard to explain I guess but if you've ever use the Logitech Trackman Marble FX or another similar trackball, you'll know what I mean.

If anyone gets the same control balance down in such a small package, it would be an interesting look.

[Xiaou2]

 Well, its similar to playing Bowling with a Golf Ball.    The feel will be really odd.. because the
mass is so much reduced that it changes the reaction times,  the tactile feel, and the
control.

 Greater Diameter also plays a factor in control too.

 A steel ball at 1.5"  might be good for mini bartops however.

[RayB]

To both the above:

That's why I'm suggesting using a pinball. They are heavy compared to the plastic balls in the examples you all mentioned. More mass on low-friction bearings = more spin.

So the laptop ball example is a lousy one. I've tried those small kiosk tracballs too and they have the same problem. They aren't designed for "spin". The balls are too light.

[ark_ader]

Why not a conventional ball mouse or laptop mouse ball , inverted?

Why not a trackpad just covering the hole?

Why not an analogue joystick, like those ancient joysticks with the shaft sawed off and some foam or rubber tip.

Why a pinball ball?  Wouldn't you have friction burns on your fingers?  (Like those old Atari Football Trackballs used to do)

What about those industrial keyboards you see in the mall or wally mart that is stainless steel with a trackball?

I can see the need for one though.  Without the blisters! 

[ShoLouie]

I believe you can be on to something with the heavy pinball, it has alot more angular momentum than the plastic ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out there, could be a good answer to smaller bartops, etc.  You would have to use different material for the rollers i would imagine, metal on metal wouldn't be a good idea

[RandyT]

Sorry if this isn't coherent...been in bed with a 102 fever for the better part of the last two days.  Still a little disoriented 

If anyone has ever seen the photo of my test rig with the "Active Marquee", they would understand why this isn't as off the wall as it might seem at first.  Small control panel, with a trackball hanging off the side of the cabinet

So yeah, a super compact trackball installation would probably be good, specifically for panels where a real one doesn't have a chance of fitting in the space available.

The rollers and encoders are going to be the thing that takes up the most space, as they are in any TB, so an optical sensor would probably be necessary. 

I'll keep it in the back of my mind.  If I run across some components that would allow something like this to go together, I'll play around with it.

RandyT

[Ginsu Victim]

My main thought when the pinball was mentioned was that as good as that sounds, would the reflective surface work well with an optical sensor. Considering the size, my first instinct would be to go optical, so I'm glad to see you agree.

[RandyT]

My main thought when the pinball was mentioned was that as good as that sounds, would the reflective surface work well with an optical sensor. Considering the size, my first instinct would be to go optical, so I'm glad to see you agree.

I actually went and pulled a ball out of my High-Speed and rolled it around in front of my mouse sensor to make sure that it would track.  A highly polished ball probably wouldn't work well, but this one seemed to be ok.

RandyT

[Ginsu Victim]

Since I don't have a trackball, I just keep a Logitech Marble Mouse on top of my cabinet and pull it down when needed. The ball in that works great for everything I've played. A similar ball would be awesome.

[bvicarious]

way to steal my idea, guys!

[RandyT]

Since I don't have a trackball, I just keep a Logitech Marble Mouse on top of my cabinet and pull it down when needed. The ball in that works great for everything I've played. A similar ball would be awesome.

I have one of those.  I like to call it my USB Carpal Tunnel device.


RandyT

[AndyWarne]

"sneak preview" post now removed.

Andy

[Ginsu Victim]

I like to call it my USB Carpal Tunnel device

and I like to call it.....my only option at the moment.

My CP is only 23 5/8", so until one of you guys figure out a minimal footprint trackball, this is what I've got to do.

Andy, I can't get a sense of size from that picture. Maybe a ruler in the shot would be helpful.

[bvicarious]

I used one of those USB carpal tunnel devices  the other day, and you're spot-on. I used it for under a minute and it was excruciating.

[shmokes]

This would also be handy just as a pointing device.  For example, a steering wheel panel would benefit greatly from a pointer device because most of the best racing games on not in Mame, but rather stand-alone windows programs like Need For Speed or Colin McRae.  But the menus in those games usually require a mouse or keyboard.  Something like the device described in the OP would be perfect for this.

[TPB]

"sneak preview" post now removed.

Why ?   

Randy, as a savvy and eagle-eyed competitor, I hope you took a copy of this post before Andy removed it.   

[Ginsu Victim]

Why, that would be stealing....and from Andy, no less!

[Kangum]

all im interested is that someone creates a 1-1/2" diameter trackball that doesnt cost 200.00 usd (happ).


the button trackball suggestion would work i suppose. but as above id prefere a 1 1/2 at a more realistic selling cost.

[leapinlew]

id prefere a 1 1/2 at a more realistic selling cost.

Whats realistic to you?

We have some people happy that spinners are the quality they are for the low prices they cost, and we have others who complain that spinners cost too much.

I'm not interested in this product at all... it doesn't replicate any game controls I can think of. I like 2.25" and 3" trackballs. If I'm going to go through all the hassle of replicating the arcade experience - I'm not going to skimp on the controls.

I don't need one to navigate windows.

Is there some other reason to use something like this that I'm not aware of?

[Kangum]

id prefere a 1 1/2 at a more realistic selling cost.

Whats realistic to you?

We have some people happy that spinners are the quality they are for the low prices they cost, and we have others who complain that spinners cost too much.

I'm not interested in this product at all... it doesn't replicate any game controls I can think of. I like 2.25" and 3" trackballs. If I'm going to go through all the hassle of replicating the arcade experience - I'm not going to skimp on the controls.

I don't need one to navigate windows.

Is there some other reason to use something like this that I'm not aware of?

who said anythin about spinners. spinners and trackballs are obviously not the same. and t my knowlege there is no 1 12 trackball designed for arcades besides the 200 happ one. none of what i said had anything to do with spinners

[bvicarious]

id prefere a 1 1/2 at a more realistic selling cost.

Whats realistic to you?

We have some people happy that spinners are the quality they are for the low prices they cost, and we have others who complain that spinners cost too much.

I'm not interested in this product at all... it doesn't replicate any game controls I can think of. I like 2.25" and 3" trackballs. If I'm going to go through all the hassle of replicating the arcade experience - I'm not going to skimp on the controls.

I don't need one to navigate windows.

Is there some other reason to use something like this that I'm not aware of?

They'd be pretty sweet for a 1:4 scale tempest arcade, ya know.

[leapinlew]

id prefere a 1 1/2 at a more realistic selling cost.

Whats realistic to you?

We have some people happy that spinners are the quality they are for the low prices they cost, and we have others who complain that spinners cost too much.

I'm not interested in this product at all... it doesn't replicate any game controls I can think of. I like 2.25" and 3" trackballs. If I'm going to go through all the hassle of replicating the arcade experience - I'm not going to skimp on the controls.

I don't need one to navigate windows.

Is there some other reason to use something like this that I'm not aware of?

who said anythin about spinners. spinners and trackballs are obviously not the same. and t my knowlege there is no 1 12 trackball designed for arcades besides the 200 happ one. none of what i said had anything to do with spinners

I guess I should've clarified. Spinners are similar in price to trackballs and there are people who are happy with the price and unhappy with the price. I thought it was obvious I was making a comparison, but - guess not.

You said you wanted a "realistic" price, without saying how much it should be. The only thing you said is you didn't want it to be $200. How much do you think is realistic?

[ark_ader]

I played around with the concept of a low cost trackball, after I just took the encoders off my Golden Tee TV I got from Wallymart.  I ditched the cue ball and looked at ways to make the traction on the rollers better, as I got less grip on the original ball.

I took apart the assembly of the rollers and purchased some shrink tubing from Fry's and covered them around the roller bar to make the roller grip the ball better.  It worked to the point I did not have to use too much force to make the trackball spin faster, something that interface has issues with..

Then I thought about RayB's pinball idea, since I do not have any ball berrings big enough, I thought of a glass marble and use the reverse mouse housing and the shrink tubing on the spindles.  Which is the opposite effect of the ball on the mouse.  The weight of the marble or pinball would add better traction to the shrink tubing and give a better effect.

I will go and try that out, as I do need a trackball for mouse usage and the odd game of Crystal Castles.  The GoldenTee interface looks like a better option, but it would take up more space on my CP.

Any suggestions to improve on this direction?

[FrizzleFried]

I want one of these for my juke/cocktail cab.  $50-$70 is a realistic price.  I won't spend $200 for the Happ version.