Author Topic: Opti-Gun Adaptor - Says Works With Mame! (Read 27642 times)

Circo · « **on:** July 20, 2008, 01:31:31 pm »

Has this been talked aboout before?

The OptiGun adapter is a USB adapter that allows players to connect Arcade Light Guns to any USB based system. This universal adapter provides a complete solution to implement an arcade game including Gun Inputs, Force Feedback Outputs, digital inputs and built in audio amplifier. The adapter an also be used with PC based emualtors such as M.A.M.E. to connect arcade light guns on your home system.
The design supports input from both standard PC VGA connectors and arcade low/med resolution molex connectors. The design supports all arcade video resolutions:

Low Res 320x200 15.75KHz
Med Res 512x384 24.5 KHz
Std Res 640x480 31 KHz
SVGA 800x600 35.1 KHz
XGA 1024x768 37.5 KHz

Stereo amplifier built in.
Integrated heat sink, no fan required
35W Stereo Amplifier
Proven circuit design used in over 50,000 units in the coin-op market

Supports off the shelf light guns.

Works with Happ & Betson / Imperial Guns & Rifles
No Modifications to guns or board required

24 digital inputs.

All inputs debounced
Allows board to be used as only I/O adapter, connecting coin inputs, start buttons, etc

8 digital outputs.

Supports 5v and 12v outputs
Works with industry standard coin counters
Supports guns with built in force feedback solenoids

USB 2.0 HID.

Interfaces to system as HID Standard 2 axis, joysticks
No Drivers Required
Works with Linux, Windows and other OS

Opti-Gun Adapter: MSRP - $199

http://www.nanotechent.com/opti-gun.php

vertygo · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2008, 03:18:25 pm »

Looks too good to be true, but I am hopeful.

Who's going to order it first ?

wbassett · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2008, 06:31:35 pm »

It looks like this board that I was reporting on...
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=81154.0

Les at Happ said they finally got one and are in the process of doing their testing and reviews and then will make one available to me to test.

This is the first I saw a price, and if this is the same card (looks the same) I'm a bit disappointed. Granted that's a lot of features, but at $200 it's also more than a lot of people are going to want to pay, especially seeing that you still have to buy the guns.

It depends on what a person is looking for though, if they want actual arcade guns, then this will appeal to them, but for those on a budget, I think it's a bit too high. I was hoping it would max out around the $100 mark tops.

TheShanMan · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2008, 06:43:48 pm »

Ditto. I don't know if I could convince myself to spend over $200 for the whole setup. After all, there are probably just a handful of games that I'd even use them for. Still, it seems like we as a community are finally reaching a point of having multiple good options available for light guns.

wbassett · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2008, 07:56:00 pm »

Ditto to your dito

It would be interesting to see what all you can do with the 24 digital inputs, as in can this also work in place of an ipaq? My guess is that it can support some basic buttons and things, but may not handle things as well as an IPAC.

I'd rather see just a light gun interface without some of the whistles and bells this has, just a good solid performing interface for arcade light guns at a more reasonable price. I don't really care about a built in audio amp and things like that.

This is one of those marketing things where if they lowered the price they'd make more money on a higher volume of sales rather than having a high price that only a couple people will opt to buy. Also I've seen this before where a company prices something too high and then thinks since nobody is buying it nobody wants it and they discontinue the product.

I am keeping an open dialog with Les at Happcontrols and he said I should be getting a board soon. I haven't asked this question yet... I'm slated to be a reviewer for this interface for them, but there was no mention of money... so I don't know if they will offer me an advanced option to buy the board before they officially start selling it on their site, or if it will be a loaner that I test and review and then send back. Of course I'd love the option that if I do a full and honest review I get to keep the board, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that!

But hey, you never know right? I do a lot of Home Theater testing and reviews and I did get a 60" screen for free, and my partner got a 98" fixed frame screen to review at no cost and they didn't want it back, so anything is possible!

If this is a loaner, then I am going to also ask Les if he can send me two guns to test as well. I wouldn't want to buy the guns and then say the board is a bust or Happ sells it for $199 and I don't want to flip for that much... then I'm stuck with two guns. Also, if it's a loaner for review, and he agrees to two guns, I'll ask about one basic gun and one with recoil so I can test that out as well.

MSRP is $199, my guess is Happcontrols will sell it for around $150 because that's similar in price to the UGCI that ROR3 makes and they sell. ROR3 was supposed to have a very similar light gun interface, but they never came through with the product so Happ gave up on it and found this company. So based on all that, like I said, I think it will be around $150 and I think that's still more than what most people will want to pay.

TheShanMan · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:08:29 pm »

Well if Happ sells it for $150, then divemaster will probably be offering it for perhaps $120 and perhaps $60 for the guns. Still a bit spendy for a 2 gun setup, but at least it's starting to approach reasonable. It would be cool if they offered 2 versions of the board where one is a basic board with the extra features disabled. Maybe then we'd hit that magic $200-or-less point.

wbassett · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:18:45 pm »

If that's the case, then it would be around the price (including guns) of the dual ActLabs gun setup and easier to swallow, but still pricey.

Did you check NanoTech's site out? They are definitely over priced.

"The Retr-IO adapters provides a standard JAMMA interface for USB based systems. This universal adapter provides a complete solution to implement an arcade game using Joysticks, Trackballs, Spinners, buttons and features digital outputs and built in audio and video amplifiers.

The board works with any PC based system including M.A.M.E and other emulation products. It provides an all in one solution to hooking up traditional arcade controls to your PC, or any USB system. All digital inputs and outputs are interfaced via standard keyboard commands, and appear as mapped keys to your games. The default key mappings match those of many popular PC emulation products. Two Trackballs and two Spinners are supported, and are mapped to the system as mice. The board supports four player standard configurations or two player 4 way joystick and 6 button configurations.

The onboard video amplifier allows video generated by PC video adapters to be amplified to the proper voltage for display on arcade monitors* The onboard audio amplifier takes PC audio output and puts it onto the JAMMA stereo connectors.

*the board does not convert video resolutions or frequencies, that must be done in software.

Retr-IO Adapter: MSRP $199"

Shouldn't that be priced well under $100?

Personally I wanted to see the gun interface for around the $60-80 range, not the $200 range!

I guess we still have to wait for the final reviews and what the actual street price will be.

exibar · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2008, 01:56:31 am »

oh my! Does this mean that the box of arcade guns I bought 2 years ago is actually going to be used? I bought this box of like 20ish arcade guns, most of which are in good shape, but the only use I got out of them was to open the box, look at them, then close it and put it up on the shelf :-(

I'll have to build a dedicated shooting cab now too..... oh boy, the wife isn't gunna like this! ;-) Maybe I can find one of those jap cabs with the 32 inch monitors in them ;-)

Now where are all those shooting game roms I was collecting....

Please keep us informed how it goes with this interface. I agree that an interface without all the bells and whistles would be TONS better. I don't mind the $150 that much, but only because I have the guns. But I would much rather only have to spend $60 - $70 on it, of course :-0

Mike B

TheShanMan · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2008, 02:30:14 am »

Exibar, if this interface proves to be a good solution for us, you might consider putting some of those guns in the BST forum. I wouldn't mind buying a pair of good condition used guns if it saves me a decent amount of $!

Paul Olson · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2008, 02:37:03 am »

I would be interested in a couple of guns as well.

wbassett · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2008, 03:47:02 am »

Quote from: TheShanMan on July 21, 2008, 02:30:14 am

Exibar, if this interface proves to be a good solution for us, you might consider putting some of those guns in the BST forum. I wouldn't mind buying a pair of good condition used guns if it saves me a decent amount of $!

Although I think that is a great idea, it's not an ultimate answer for all of us because obviously he would have a very limited supply.

I just wrote the company and explained that I honestly feel they just over priced their target market and that they would make much more money with volume sales at a lower price than a sale here and there at their current price.

Right now we don't know how well this will work for a main controller interface, and based on the information I have an I-PAC looks like it is not only much cheaper but ten fold easier to use.

I want to be able to go back to the company with a realistic list of what people want and also what they are willing to pay for both a no frills just an arcade lightgun interface, as well as a full featured interface that will allow not only actual arcade light guns but some buttons and sticks as well. Like I said, a realistic and reasonable price. Free or $20 is obviously not going to be accepted by them, but if we can show them there is a large community willing to buy this if the price is right... maybe they will adjust the price some.

Right now though at this price, I can see only the purist die hards that want an actual arcade gun buying it and the rest will opt for either a TopGun or ActLabs setup.

I'll report back on what the company says in their response as soon as I hear from them.

Paul Olson · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2008, 04:11:00 am »

Quote

Although I think that is a great idea, it's not an ultimate answer for all of us because obviously he would have a very limited supply.

I agree completely. That is why I was trying to get to on the list early.

I don't mind paying for quality products, but $200 might make me look at other alternatives. If it works as described though, I may have to try to sell off some extra parts to try to grab one. I would also like to see a cheaper version that includes just the gun interface.

RandyT · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2008, 04:16:09 am »

Quote from: wbassett on July 21, 2008, 03:47:02 am

I just wrote the company and explained that I honestly feel they just over priced their target market and that they would make much more money with volume sales at a lower price than a sale here and there at their current price.

Well, to be fair, the home enthusiast isn't their target market. This board, assuming it works well, is the centerpiece of a PC based Coin-op shooting game. It's designed to go into a real cabinet in a real game room and help it to eat real quarters (dollars?). As such, it wouldn't make good business sense for them to sell them inexpensively.

It could probably be stripped down to cut costs, but it might be a hard sell to get a special run of them made for this market. Real arcade guns are very expensive, unless you can get them used someplace, so that definitely hurts the size of the potential market.

It would be nice if they would, but it's probably not likely.

RandyT

Circo · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2008, 04:38:49 am »

Actually I am just going to be happy if they work. If I add up all of the money that I have already spent on lightgun solutions that I never used long term (Including my two topguns sitting in a drawer in my garage, then really even at $200 I could live with it if I had to. I will just be happy to have a solution that works the same as it does in an arcade, if that is what this is, then count me in. I think for that segment of the market that invests in arcadevga cards, multi frequency monitors & led wiz's with all the lighted buttons this could do very well. It's not everybody but it's a lot of us

But I may be selling an almost umused set of LCD TopGuns soon

RandyT · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2008, 05:39:07 am »

Someone just needs to make a cheap arcade-type gun that works well with a such a board. I would imagine that the market would open up quite a bit for a higher priced interface, so long as guns were affordable.

It seems that a gun designed for home use could be produced more reasonably than the arcade counterparts. Not much more than a switch, a lens and a photodiode in those things, is there?

RandyT

Circo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 21, 2008, 06:29:58 am »

But I do like the heavy duty cords and mounting brackets, plus reliable force feedback is cool too!

wbassett · « **Reply #16 on:** July 21, 2008, 06:30:37 am »

I guess I wasn't thinking of this as going into a commercial arcade seeing that it is made to hook to a computer. I'm not being argumentative, rather sincerely asking, are there many commercial arcade machines out there that use a USB interface now? It would make sense if they moved to a more PC centric setup- updating games or converting consoles would be a breeze. They have other products that seem like they are intended for the home market though, so I assumed the same for this one.

As far as actual arcade guns, a basic gun is relatively inexpensive in the sense it's the real McCoy and you get everything from the connecting bracket at the cab to the hose, wiring, electronics and gun shell for $60-70 depending on what make and where you get it, and that's brand new. eBay has them right now for as little as $28 for a blue konami gun, $38 for a gamo metal gun (both buy it now prices and free shipping), and an average of $58 buy it now for a brand new the classic .45 caliber style gun (shipping is $9). All in all not bad prices seeing these are the real deal.

I passed up on some good deals on a few guns because I didn't think there was a way to interface them to a computer for use with MAME. MSRP is always higher than actual selling price. I just wish this was down around $150 MSRP with a street price around the $120 mark, and/or a basic interface sans the audio amp and digital inputs for under $100.

Hopefully I'll have a board soon to review.

Now if I can figure out how to hook up my Space Gun guns...

RandyT · « **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2008, 12:12:54 pm »

Quote from: wbassett on July 21, 2008, 06:30:37 am

I guess I wasn't thinking of this as going into a commercial arcade seeing that it is made to hook to a computer. I'm not being argumentative, rather sincerely asking, are there many commercial arcade machines out there that use a USB interface now? It would make sense if they moved to a more PC centric setup- updating games or converting consoles would be a breeze. They have other products that seem like they are intended for the home market though, so I assumed the same for this one.

I think there are more PC centric arcade machines out there nowadays than those which are not. It's been going that way for quite some time now. Custom board designs are expensive, and entirely unnecessary with the wide availability of mass produced PCs containing high performance video output options. Plenty of mature development tools as well.

Quote

Hopefully I'll have a board soon to review.

Now if I can figure out how to hook up my Space Gun guns...

I've always been a fan of shooting games myself. Looking forward to your eventual report.

RandyT

wbassett · « **Reply #18 on:** July 21, 2008, 07:50:28 pm »

Randy that does make perfect sense that they would use computers nowadays... I just wasn't thinking and 'assumed'.

Some good news though...
I wrote NanoTech yesterday and Bob Dekett already responded! That is an excellent sign if you ask me! ROR3 never answered their emails and there was never anyone in the office to answer the phone. Even Happcontrols never got the lightgun board from ROR3 for testing let alone selling. So NanoTech sounds like they are concerned about their image and customer relations.

That's not the good news though- Bob confirmed that this is indeed intended for the commercial market but said they have been discussing a simple consumer version for us home users! He also said he is very interested in hearing exactly what we want and need in such an interface. I have no idea what the cost would be, but I'd imagine it would be a bit cheaper than the commercial unit.

For those that are interested in this, take a look at the ops first post and all the specs and features of the commercial board and make a list of what you'd like to see in a light gun only interface and what you'd be willing to spend. It sounds like Bob is willing to accomodate us as long as it's not outrageous requests.

My input... Basically eveything listed for the board that applies to light guns and drop the audio amp and the extra controller inputs. Price? I'd be willing to go $100 for it. That would make a basic dual gun setup around the $220 mark including guns. Recoil guns? If you want those the price shoots way up! I have seen some used ones on eBay though.

Circo · « **Reply #19 on:** July 21, 2008, 08:21:21 pm »

that sounds like great news, the recoil function is important to me though and worth a bit of a premium. never liked that while the top guns had recoil if you used it chances were it would break. being able to use arcade parts will be a blessing. can't wait for a hands on review. this has been the one thing I have really been waiting for.

TheShanMan · « **Reply #20 on:** July 22, 2008, 12:04:36 am »

Now that I look more closely at the specs, I'm not sure I can use it. I have a vertical monitor running at 1024x1280 and I'm limited by the ability to run horizontal games on it. So if I were to drop to the 1024x768 resolution that would mean I could only play horizontal games with a max horizontal resolution of 768. So I'm hoping that it actually does support 1280x1024.

Aside from that, I think a consumer version needs to have force feedback (whether I'd spring for those guns or not), and frankly I wouldn't care about ANY inputs (or outputs for that matter), but I don't think they could get away without at least a couple of inputs per gun.

TPB · « **Reply #21 on:** July 22, 2008, 01:16:11 am »

They're not solely focused on commercial sales.

They're also looking to service the HOME market (that's us), as they state on the webpage :

Quote from: NanoTech Entertainment webpage

The adapter an also be used with PC based emualtors such as M.A.M.E. to connect arcade light guns on your home system.

http://www.nanotechent.com/opti-gun.php

Keep in mind, that MAME is not licenced for use in a commercial environment.

So any company that promotes their products as being MAME compatible, is inherently seeking to sell the product to the Home market.

TPB · « **Reply #22 on:** July 22, 2008, 01:22:20 am »

$199 is pricey.

But if this interface works flawlessly with Arcade lightguns, then it's worth paying.

Sure, a cheaper interface, that's under $100, would be nice.

But that depends upon whether you've got the patience to wait around for another Two Years, until 2010 or later, on the odd chance (that's by no means certain) that a cheaper interface may be developed and sold down the track.

At some point, we all need to decide when it's time to bite the bullet and purchase the "best option that's currently out there", rather than having a perpetual (and constantly growing) wish list of the "perfect" alternative, that never ends up materialising.

wbassett · « **Reply #23 on:** July 22, 2008, 01:44:56 am »

Quote from: TPB on July 22, 2008, 01:22:20 am

At some point, we all need to decide when it's time to bite the bullet and purchase the "best option that's currently out there", rather than having a perpetual (and constantly growing) wish list of the "perfect" alternative, that never ends up materialising.

Although I agree with most of what you say, I disagree that it will take another two years before someone comes out with something good. We are seeing a lot of very viable options now and at least one of them will be available soon to compete with ActLabs and EMS.

RandyT · « **Reply #24 on:** July 22, 2008, 01:59:06 am »

Quote from: TPB on July 22, 2008, 01:22:20 am

At some point, we all need to decide when it's time to bite the bullet and purchase the "best option that's currently out there", rather than having a perpetual (and constantly growing) wish list of the "perfect" alternative, that never ends up materialising.

That's fine if cost isn't an issue for you. But one also needs to consider the "big picture" of how much capability you end up with after all that cash outlay. If you can play 6 more games, 2 of which you really like, I would guess it to be a lot easier to wait

.

And, for the most part, PC compatible means MAME compatible, so I wouldn't read too much into the mention of MAME as an indication of the intended market. The on-board components, like the audio amplifier, and the price, paint a much clearer picture. But a sale is a sale, so of course they would mention the possibility of home use.

RandyT

TPB · « **Reply #25 on:** July 22, 2008, 02:24:20 am »

Quote from: wbassett on July 22, 2008, 01:44:56 am

Although I agree with most of what you say, I disagree that it will take another two years before someone comes out with something good.

A competitive offering, from a different company, may become available before then.

But I wouldn't bank on a "new model" from NanoTech any time soon.

It takes time to develop a new product.

How long was the wait being the TopGun I and TopGun II ?

Two years.

And even then, let's list the "new features" we have with the TopGun II :

(1) Vista compatibility.

(2) Ummm ... any other "new features" I've left out ??

TPB · « **Reply #26 on:** July 22, 2008, 04:10:01 am »

Quote from: wbassett on July 20, 2008, 06:31:35 pm

Les at Happ said they finally got one and are in the process of doing their testing and reviews and then will make one available to me to test.

wbasset,

Any word from Les at Happ ?

Will Happ publish a product review, based upon their test results ?

And when will Happ provide YOU with your own unit to test ? No doubt you're waiting with baited breath.

Circo · « **Reply #27 on:** July 22, 2008, 04:32:55 am »

Until we have a review with how compatible it really is, it is all just speculation, if it is say compatible with everything a top gun is, and works well then I will pay whatever. I am talking pc games, mame, and maybe even other emulators. If it is then I am sure there will be a big market. If it's only a couple of games then way too much money for what you get.

There is no way to make an informed decision on who would buy or is it worth it until we know. And for the money I expect it to work flawlessly or its not worth it. They need to let one of us review it, if they expect any of us to buy it.

wbassett · « **Reply #28 on:** July 22, 2008, 08:20:25 am »

Quote from: TPB on July 22, 2008, 02:24:20 am

Quote from: wbassett on July 22, 2008, 01:44:56 am

Although I agree with most of what you say, I disagree that it will take another two years before someone comes out with something good.

A competitive offering, from a different company, may become available before then.

But I wouldn't bank on a "new model" from NanoTech any time soon.

It takes time to develop a new product.

How long was the wait being the TopGun I and TopGun II ?

Two years.

And even then, let's list the "new features" we have with the TopGun II :

(1) Vista compatibility.

(2) Ummm ... any other "new features" I've left out ??

I wouldn't use HK-EMS as a model for timelines, yeah it took them two years to put out something that in my opinion they really should have had done when they went public with the first gun. Mainly drivers that actually worked!

I work in Corporate America and if a company wants something done and gets moving it can get done rather quickly. Thing is, I would agree that NanoTech probably doesn't place a high priority on a consumer version.

Basically this wouldn't be a complete R&D, everything is already there, it would be more on the lines of taking functions away rather than developing new functions and features. Still, you're right... it's not something that's going to be available next month or anything like that.

Quote from: TPB

wbasset,

Any word from Les at Happ ?

Will Happ publish a product review, based upon their test results ?

And when will Happ provide YOU with your own unit to test ? No doubt you're waiting with baited breath.

Yeah I heard from Les a few days ago. They are testing the board now and when they're done I'll be getting one to test. I don't have a date, but Les is pretty good at getting back to me.

I don't know if they will publish a product review, at least nothing above and beyond what they normally put on their site. If that's something they normally publish then I'd think they would do the same with this product.

CheffoJeffo · « **Reply #29 on:** July 22, 2008, 08:29:53 am »

Quote from: RandyT on July 22, 2008, 01:59:06 am

And, for the most part, PC compatible means MAME compatible, so I wouldn't read too much into the mention of MAME as an indication of the intended market. The on-board components, like the audio amplifier, and the price, paint a much clearer picture. But a sale is a sale, so of course they would mention the possibility of home use.

I was writing a post with exactly those points, which I have now abandoned. As Randy says -- this thing is clearly designed for dropping a PC into a commercial cabinet and the mention of MAME is an afterthought.

And I have no problem with that.

And I have no significant problem with the price -- I would rather spend $200 for a decent gun interface than spend $eleventy and a brazillion hours making my buttons blink.

TPB · « **Reply #30 on:** July 22, 2008, 09:28:54 am »

We're talking about an interface that makes COMMERCIAL, ARCADE lightguns work on a PC.

A product like that, will never be strictly for the "Home" market.

You're not going to see this board sold in Wal-Mart or Zellers anytime soon.

So the point is moot ... who cares if this products's primary focus is the commercial market.

We're in a specialised niche hobby, where commercial products are generally "more to our tastes" anyway - providing we can pick them up for the best possible price.

As Circo and CheffoJeffo agree, $199 is potentially a price worth paying.

But for that price, it must :

** Work flawlessly.

** Be easy to configure, so that it works "right out of the box".

** Customer support must be provided, and it must be prompt, courteous, and effective.

SirPeale · « **Reply #31 on:** July 22, 2008, 11:39:09 am »

I wonder if this is the same board used in Big Buck Hunter Pro (and the like) machines. They're PC based, but use a lightgun. Before I got the chance to find out I no longer had access to the machines.

Paul Olson · « **Reply #32 on:** July 22, 2008, 11:42:21 am »

For the feature request list, I will add more resolutions. The listed resolutions will not cut it if we want to display accurately.

Area 51 Site 4 - 640x240
Area 51 - 360x240
Police Trainer - 394x240
HOTD - 496x384

Those are the ones I can think of to look up on MAWS for now. This could be a big issue, but I would guess a fairly easy fix.

TPB · « **Reply #33 on:** July 23, 2008, 01:39:29 am »

Quote from: Peale on July 22, 2008, 11:39:09 am

I wonder if this is the same board used in Big Buck Hunter Pro (and the like) machines. They're PC based, but use a lightgun.

Good point !

It's possibly the same board.

wbassett · « **Reply #34 on:** July 23, 2008, 02:50:48 am »

Quote from: TPB on July 22, 2008, 09:28:54 am

We're talking about an interface that makes COMMERCIAL, ARCADE lightguns work on a PC.

A product like that, will never be strictly for the "Home" market.

You're not going to see this board sold in Wal-Mart or Zellers anytime soon.

Ya know... I don't ever recall any arcade type product being sold in Walmart. If Walmart defines what the home arcade user market is, then none of us would have home arcades right now.

Well maybe that crappy 100 all in one game cab they tried to sell last year that was a POS.

My point is if this can be used on a PC, then it can be used at home, and pricing it for commercial arcade sales is a bit much. Lower the price and tap into both markets. That's the smart thing and what I would do.

You can get an I-PAC for what? Around $40? A dedicated gun controller should cost around the same. If they add IPAC features, then sure, add on another $30-$40 and then for an audio amp (which are extremely inexpensive) maybe another $20. So we're at $90-$100 bucks. That's what this really should be priced at, but if they have the only one... they can price it at whatever they want.

The closest I think I ever saw anything coming to a mainstream product was the X-Arcade dual stick and TankStick were sold through BestBuy last year. Other than that, I don't ever recall any arcade controller or device being sold through a brick and mortar store. If that legitimizes things, then nothing we get is 'legit', or mainstream, meaning people can charge whatever they want... and that's not right. Yes it's a small market, but things still need to be priced to what that market will bear. If people are willing to pay $200 for this interface, then that's what it will sell for whether it's over priced or not. If people demand a lower price, well the company will meet that demand or they will just not sell it commercially and then another company could come along to fill the niche.

Personally I'd like to see how willing they are to accomodate us and come out with a consumer version and what the price will be as well as how soon they can do it. If they miss the boat, then it looks like the EMS TopGun is the reigning king, which is a shame because although it has a lot of potential, they are lazy in the sense that it took them over two years to deliver what they should have when it was presented originally. That's what you get with no competition, and that's not what we should settle for. (Keep in mind the TopGun is just a cheap retrofit of a PS2 Guncon gun and not an original design... and it still took two years for them to rework Smog's driver's)

This may or may not be our dream come true, but it is a very good sign that we are starting to see a variety of options. With a variety comes competition, and competition means better products and lower prices.

Honestly, I'm just waiting for everything to settle down and someone rise to the occasion as the premier lightgun for us MAME users. If it's EMS, great, but I do like to see some competion to keep things honest.

Ultimately the guts to a basic arcade gun are very inexpensive and could be put in a variety of gun casings and plugged into an interface like this. If another company or two (Hint GroovyGame Gear, XArcade, Ultimarc) would develop something like this we could be talking about a $40-60 interface as a very realistic price.

It is hard to believe that people have come up with interface hacks for T2 guns, Star Wars yokes, steering wheels and other devices yet we're still waiting for a viable light gun option.

AndyWarne · « **Reply #35 on:** July 23, 2008, 06:18:37 am »

To build a viable business, the business either needs to sell a mass-market product at low margin or a niche-market low-volume product at a high margin.

There is no escaping the fact that any Mame-related product is low-volume. A product of this nature is furthermore a niche-in-a-niche market product as relatively few people actually want to run arcade guns on a PC. Pretty much the entire potential customer base are members of this forum and so reading here might give a false impression that the whole world wants one.

You might be wondering why, having made these statements, Ultimarc continues to exist as even the I-PAC is a niche product selling at a low margin. Its not an easy ride, especially as we have competition who are even more price-focused than we are. (dry your eyes now hehe).
If I were to go on Dragons Den and present the I-PAC as a business, Peter Jones would just laugh when I state the margin and projected sales.

But fortunately thats only part of the story. Keeping overheads down to the bare minimum and also being involved in consultancy and design for other companies makes things viable.

This product is aimed squarely at the coin-op market and I fully understand the developers reasons for doing this and the pricing. Many arcade cabs these days use PC architecture, usually using specially-designed motherboards which are geared to this purpose (and are expensive). Many of them also use Mame which is a whole other issue...

There is another reason why I will not be developing a light-gun interface. One word: Patent.

Andy

wbassett · « **Reply #36 on:** July 23, 2008, 08:36:07 am »

Sometimes it is amazing we have available what we do.

Andy the I-PAC is exactly what I was thinking and referring to. I definitely can see both sides. If the I-PAC, KeyWiz, and even XArcade's interface all can be made and sold for around $50 or so and make a profit (albiet probably a small one) all I'm saying is the price of this board could be lower. As far as being intended for the commercial market, it probably isn't a bad price in that respect.

You are right about how on forums we tend to have a very narrow view of the overall market and it seems like there is a lot of people interested in arcades, but as you said most are probably on this site!

MSRP doesn't mean that's what it will sell for. I'd think that ultimately this will sell for around what the UGCI boards on Happcontrols sell for, maybe just a touch higher. It sure would be nice though to see a consumer version board that hits the magic sub $100 price! Like TPB said though, I won't hold my breath on that.

erictrumpet · « **Reply #37 on:** August 04, 2008, 02:13:37 pm »

So whats the bottom line on this thing: if it works perfectly, but costs $200 plus the cost of buying real coin-op guns, well then dont we finally have the lightgun solution we have all been hoping for? Why is this not the news of the century? Who cares if it is expensive, who here is less than a G into their cabs? Most people spend 2-3k when you add it all up. So, what's the deal? Does this interface work? If so, I want one, period!

Eric.

wbassett · « **Reply #38 on:** August 04, 2008, 04:51:57 pm »

Still waiting to hear from Les at Happcontrols. Last word I got was they were doing their preliminary testing.

If I don't hear back by the end of the week I'll drop him a line to see how things are going.

As far as what price do people have in their cab? Can't speak for everyone, but mine is around $800

I agree that if people are willing to spend several hundred on a real Star Wars yoke, then even if this is $200 and then another $150 for two guns, for some that's not unreasonable.

I do think though that with the economy in a slump and the cost of gas, not to mention what heating oil is going to cost this winter, many people will opt not to spend money on things like this. I know my belt is tightening and I make a decent salary.

erictrumpet · « **Reply #39 on:** August 04, 2008, 06:20:46 pm »

Yeah. Truth is, my current project is a conversion and it is going MUCH less expensively than I had expected. So not all cabs cost thousands... but anyway, if gun games are you bag, $350 outlay for real arcade controls that work sounds pretty "reasonable" to me. All things being relative of course!
Thanks for keeping us posted when you hear more about this near gear.

Eric.


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