What kind of LEDs do I need for the LED-Wiz/Happ translucent buttons?

[DaddyLongLegs]

Hey guys. I'm totally new here, and got most of my information for my new MAME cabinet by lurking here. I am now at a point where I'm too confused not to post.

For anyone that cares, I got an old Street Fighter 3 cab (the guy removed the game) for $350. Considering it has a working 25" standard res monitor, I thought that was a decent deal. (The only thing that sucks is I didn't realize until I got home the glass on the monitor is fairly heavily scratched, making playing games on it with flat colors/graphics very annoying as it gets a prism effect). Anyway, I am going to use MaLa and I bought a LED-Wiz because I heard I can have only the buttons the game uses light up. That sounds amazingly awesome to me.

I already bought my LED-Wiz, but the whole LED thing confuses me to death. I work for an electrical supply company and I would get LEDs at a big discount, so I'd rather go through my job, however in the gigantic book of 20,000 LEDs to choose from, I can't figure out exactly what type to pick out. I see tons of options like the mcd, forward current, wave length, typical mcd, forward voltage, test current, I could go on and on.  I want to get 6 blue, 6 red, 6 green, and 6 yellow and use them all in my Happ translucents of the same color scheme. If someone could just help me out with that, I'd greatly appreciate it.

[TOK]

You might get a lot of different suggestions, because there seems to be a lot of different ways to attain the same effect.
I went with 12v automotive LED's and powered them directly off the 12v rail of the PC power supply. I used Happ translucents, and like you, I got matching color LED's for the buttons to prevent any white light leakage (not even sure if that's a problem with white LED's).

[Franco B]

Seeing as you are using an LED WIZ (good choice I may add ), you want LEDs that you can power from a 5v supply (the LED-Wiz outputs 5v per output).

Basically you can use any LEDs that require a voltage of equal or less than 5v, if the voltage it requires is less than 5v you use resistors to lower the voltage. Typically you will be looking at a voltage between 2v and 4v.

I would go for the highest MCD you can find that you can get over all of the colours as you can always turn them down with the LED WIZ but you cant turn them up.. You will find that you can get brighter blues than you (generally) can get reds and yellows etc. Somewhere around 8000 MCD will be fine. Saying that I think the brightest yellows I could find when I was looking were 7000MCD.

I shouldnt worry about the current etc, if you choose an LED with those ratings you will find the current rating etc will be pretty standard 20-40mA.

If you are using very bright LEDs they tend to have a narrower viewing angle and so you may want to use something like GGGs diffuser discs.

The following pic is of some lit ball tops. the red, green and blue ball tops have a 8000MCD LED in, the yellow has a 7000MCD LED.



The following video is of an LED Wiz, clear 'Happ' translucent buttons, GGG diffuser discs and 13,000MCD ultrabright blue LEDs.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwPkp8YLPV4[/youtube]

[RandyT]

You might get a lot of different suggestions, because there seems to be a lot of different ways to attain the same effect.

There are a lot of different ways, but one shouldn't expect the "same effect".  I purchased some of those "automotive" LEDs to test and they are very "run of the mill" superbrights with narrow view cones.  They are costly and, IMHO, a poor lighting solution for buttons.

The best thing to do would be to do some research on how to obtain luminous flux specifications (calculators are available on the web) and shoot for high luminous flux levels and wide viewing angles.  Narrow view cones create high-sounding  MCD ratings that do not translate to especially good performance in this application.  As Franco stated, diffuser discs can help here, but you may be surprised how much difference there is in luminous flux (actual light energy output) levels based on the angle of the LEDs.

If you are looking for vibrant light output in a well lighted room, you may find that the NovaGems (5x the output of a standard superbright) will be the only thing that will get you there.  I don't like doing the plug as part of this, but I also want to make sure that the new folks who might have seen the videos on YouTube or elsewhere, understand what they were most likely looking at.

RandyT

[DaddyLongLegs]

Thanks you so much for the incredibly helpful reply. I found 5mm, 5v LEDs with the resistor integrated. Does that mean I will not need a resistor then? Like it's built in?

I know about the NovaGems, they're very cool. It's just not worth the money for me because I can get the LEDs for near free, and the cherry switches too. Not to mention I just really love the HAPP concave translucents and I already have them. NovaGems are awesome, just a waste of money for me since I virtually have everything already.

Also, looking through the catalog, I see a lot of LEDs I can get "diffused". That would be best for this situation?

The reason I am so confused by all of this is because so many LEDs in this catalog don't have 5v for them. Hell, a lot of them don't mention the voltage at all. The ones that do (under "forward voltage type") are all numbers like 2 or 1.8 or 2.2. Or some are even more confusing and say: Vf @ If V, mA: 2.0(<3.0)@20 and basically my brain just explodes.

[RandyT]

I found 5mm, 5v LEDs with the resistor integrated. Does that mean I will not need a resistor then? Like it's built in?

If it says that it's integrated, yes, that means someone already made it so that you hook up 5v and you are golden.

Also, looking through the catalog, I see a lot of LEDs I can get "diffused". That would be best for this situation?

If the normal view cone is very narrow, yes, diffused is better.  However, don't expect the diffusion at the LED to equal diffusion at the button surface.  It's helpful to think about a clear window with a light bulb behind it.  It's a little better if the bulb is "soft" or diffused so that you don't see the harsh, pinpoint light of the filament, but it does little to evenly light the window.  Sandblast the surface of the window, and now it lights up as desired.

The reason I am so confused by all of this is because so many LEDs in this catalog don't have 5v for them. Hell, a lot of them don't mention the voltage at all. The ones that do (under "forward voltage type") are all numbers like 2 or 1.8 or 2.2. Or some are even more confusing and say: Vf @ If V, mA: 2.0(<3.0)@20 and basically my brain just explodes.

This just means that you need to solder a resistor in-line with one of the legs of the LED.  The proper value and power rating depends on the voltage and current requirements of the LED.  Again, there are calculators all over the web for figuring this out.  Many suppliers do as we do and supply proper resistors with the bulk LEDs they sell, already selected specifically for a target voltage and the LED being supplied.

RandyT

[TOK]

You might get a lot of different suggestions, because there seems to be a lot of different ways to attain the same effect.

There are a lot of different ways, but one shouldn't expect the "same effect".  I purchased some of those "automotive" LEDs to test and they are very "run of the mill" superbrights with narrow view cones.  They are costly and, IMHO, a poor lighting solution for buttons.

Don't play my games in a well lit room, but I'll attach a pic of the cab in ambient light. They're bright enough to reflect on the speaker panel below the marquee. You think the goofballs in tarted up Honda Civics are going to settle for dim LED's?  

I'll admit its not the solution for someone looking to light joysticks or have buttons light differently for various games, but you're looking at about 15 bucks for my Stargate panel (with spares) running directly off the same PC power supply that runs the computer.

[RandyT]

You think the goofballs in tarted up Honda Civics are going to settle for dim LED's? 

Heh, with those narrow view cones, they would be pretty dim, center dash, from the angle of the driver.  But they do a heck of a job putting a spot onto the ceiling of a dark car from 3 feet away.

RandyT

[DaddyLongLegs]

Thank you very much for all the helpful replies. Just to be sure, what exact specs should I look for in a resistor when getting one to work with my LEDs? Anything that drops it down to 5v?

And extremely off topic (maybe good for another thread) but is there any way to get scratches out of my 25" standard res arcade monitor? I really wish I noticed them before buying the thing.  I tried several scratch removers but they didn't work :\

[DaddyLongLegs]

I must say, RandyT, you are a good salesman because you got me to order the LED-Wiz (the 32 port onee) and some NovaGEMs. Everything looks great but I am a bit new to this, and the directions are very confusing. Simply put, where do I put each wire from each NovaGEM button to the LED-Wiz? I know everything is numbered but I don't know which of the two wires for each button goes where? This will all be powered via the USB port. I got the thing working, I put the yellow solid wires into the numbered ports, and the stranded orange wires into the x15v port and it works fine, but surely there's no way I can fit 32 wires into that one x15v port is there?

Also I don't see how to get this working in MaLa (the sole purpose I bought it for).

[RandyT]

I must say, RandyT, you are a good salesman because you got me to order the LED-Wiz (the more expensive one) and some NovaGEMs. Everything looks great but I am a bit new to this, and the directions are very confusing. Simply put, where do I put each wire from each NovaGEM button to the LED-Wiz? I know everything is numbered but I don't know which of the two wires for each button goes where? This will all be powered via the USB port.

Heh...good salesman, eh?  Not sure how to take that .

First things first.  You don't want to try to run more than about 4 of the NovaGems from USB power alone.  They draw about 100 ma each, and that's about 20% of the rated power of the USB port.  So you will need to refer to the  diagram which shows a 5v line coming from your PC power supply for more than that number.

The end of one of the NovaGem wires has a resistor.  This leads to the Cathode (-) of the Nova LED.  The prong of the resistor is connected to one of the outputs on the LED-Wiz.  The other wire is the Anode (+) and it connects to +5v.  A terminal block is a good investment for connecting the +5v to all of the Anode leads.  Don't tell anyone, but on my test machine I just stripped the Anode leads to expose about a half-inch of wire and tied them all together, including the +5v line, with a BIG wire nut and electrical taped it.  But I was in a hurry and I'm in no way recommending that as the best method .

RandyT

[DaddyLongLegs]

The end of one of the NovaGem wires has a resistor.  This leads to the Cathode (-) of the Nova LED.  The prong of the resistor is connected to one of the outputs on the LED-Wiz.  The other wire is the Anode (+) and it connects to +5v.  A terminal block is a good investment for connecting the +5v to all of the Anode leads.  Don't tell anyone, but on my test machine I just stripped the Anode leads to expose about a half-inch of wire and tied them all together, including the +5v line, with a BIG wire nut and electrical taped it.  But I was in a hurry and I'm in no way recommending that as the best method .

RandyT

Ah, got it. What is the normal recommended way to hook them all up to +5V from my PC? I mean I can tear apart a molex Y adapter but I don't know where I'd splice everything to. What's the +5v line in the PC? The red wire on a molex plug or something? Just splice everything together to that from the power supply?

Thanks! I guess the only thing the USB thing is used for then is controlling the device then? If so, I would also like to know how to use this in MaLa (the reason I bought it) so I can choose individually in what game what buttons light up! Also, if I order more NovaGEMs, is there any way to save some money and order them without the microswitches? I have a ton of them laying around and would hate to waste the money.

[RandyT]

The red wire on a molex plug or something?

That would be the one.  You should also run a line from the black one to GROUND on the LED-Wiz, as long as you are at it.

Also, if I order more NovaGEMs, is there any way to save some money and order them without the microswitches? I have a ton of them laying around and would hate to waste the money.

Just leave the microswitch selection set to "None" when you order.  But you know you want to ditch all of them in favor of Micro-Leaf versions anyway

RandyT

[DaddyLongLegs]

That would be the one.  You should also run a line from the black one to GROUND on the LED-Wiz, as long as you are at it.

Thanks but there are two black wires. Which one do I use?

[RandyT]

Both black wires on the PC drive molex connector are ground, so you can take your pick

RandyT

[Ginsu Victim]

That would be the one.  You should also run a line from the black one to GROUND on the LED-Wiz, as long as you are at it.

Thanks but there are two black wires. Which one do I use?

Whichever seems the BLACKEST.

It's like, how much more black can it get, and the answer is, "None. None more black."

[DaddyLongLegs]

Haha I didn't mean WHICH black, I meant do I use one or both?

Thanks for the replies. I'll be ordering 18 more NovaGEM pushbuttons this week. The quality is really good. I'm glad they're concave.

[DaddyLongLegs]

Any help on getting this to work with MaLa?

[arzoo]

Any help on getting this to work with MaLa?

With MaLa and the GGG LED-Wiz controllers, you'll need to use one of two plugins to light the buttons - LEDWiz or LEDBlinky. Each has similar and unique features. Both light up the buttons used by each game.

[DaddyLongLegs]

Thanks arzoo.

Sidenote: I will be ordering a bunch of NovaGEMs today. If you guys at GroovyGameGear could find it in your hearts to send me a terminal screw for the LED wiz I'd appreciate it. The #1 port screw somehow is missing.

[RandyT]

Thanks arzoo.

Sidenote: I will be ordering a bunch of NovaGEMs today. If you guys at GroovyGameGear could find it in your hearts to send me a terminal screw for the LED wiz I'd appreciate it. The #1 port screw somehow is missing.

It's probably in the packaging somewhere.  Most likely rattled out during shipping.  But not a problem, just remind me in the comments section when you place the order.

RandyT

[DaddyLongLegs]

It's probably in the packaging somewhere.  Most likely rattled out during shipping.  But not a problem, just remind me in the comments section when you place the order.

RandyT

Thank you! I also want to order those  Pushbutton Graphic Inserts for the 1 through 4 player start buttons, and have them light up when a coin is inserted. Are they compatible with the NovaGems? If so, which color NovaGems do you recommend look the best? My guess would be clear NovaGem with a white light, but I'm not sure! What's your opinion?

[RandyT]

I also want to order those  Pushbutton Graphic Inserts for the 1 through 4 player start buttons, and have them light up when a coin is inserted. Are they compatible with the NovaGems? If so, which color NovaGems do you recommend look the best? My guess would be clear NovaGem with a white light, but I'm not sure! What's your opinion?

They are compatible (pretty much designed for them)  The color is really up to you.  I would go with the clear button, and whatever color LED suits your panel.  I'm partial to blue (check out Franco's video), but white (it's a warm white like an incandescent, BTW) would be fine as well.

RandyT

[DaddyLongLegs]

They are compatible (pretty much designed for them)  The color is really up to you.  I would go with the clear button, and whatever color LED suits your panel.  I'm partial to blue (check out Franco's video), but white (it's a warm white like an incandescent, BTW) would be fine as well.

RandyT

Thanks but don't you see the spring through the top of the clear button?

[RandyT]

Thanks but don't you see the spring through the top of the clear button?

Not with the PGI in there.  No spring visibility.

RandyT

[DaddyLongLegs]

Awesome man. Ordering today. 

[DaddyLongLegs]

Gah. Order number 6252. Could you add the following?:

PGI pushbutton graphic insert: Exit
Another NovaGEM clear with clear LED (I ordered 6, make it 7)
2 more 10 packs of the pushbutton Diffuser Discs

I assume this shouldn't add to my shipping costs. Reply here with what I owe you if you can throw these in my order and I can paypal you the difference if you like.

Thanks!! I'm droppin' tons of dough on you guys over the past month, the site is great!

[RandyT]

Heh.  No problem...those things won't change the shipping charge.


RandyT

[DaddyLongLegs]

Heh.  No problem...those things won't change the shipping charge.

Cool but how much do I owe ya and how do I get it to you?