'Mameing' Vista

[Vash]

My cab is getting closer to completion, my control panel is finished, and I've got my PC assembled, so I think it's about time to really buckle and get my PC ready on the software side to install into my cabinet once it's done.  I'm running Vista, Business edition, and was wondering how to get a truly invisible Windows boot from it.  There are plenty of guides on how to do this with XP, but nary a guide on modding Vista at all, let alone a simple application like XP has.  I'm looking to alter the boot/load screen, prevent the start menu from ever showing, and launching straight into a front end (most likely Hyperspin, once it's released).  I have a copy of 64-bit XP on hand if I need to reformat and install a different OS to get the effect, but I'd rather not just to save myself from a rather large headache. 

[Jdurg]

The whole idea of using Vista is for the 64-bit support, so if you have a copy of XP-64 that you can use I would suggest using that.

[rlehm]

No, many appliction do not run in 64. I have been using all versions of Vista since launch, 64 is the buggiest, and worst for mame.

[Jdurg]

No, many appliction do not run in 64. I have been using all versions of Vista since launch, 64 is the buggiest, and worst for mame.

You have obviously never read any of the benchmarks or posts from developers of MAME which state that 64-bit OS is the best OS for MAME.  Please do some research before you start spreading lies.  I have never come across software relating to this hobby that does not run in 64 bit OSes.

[rlehm]

I run console emulators as well, (as al lot of people do) I found few that ran smoothly, or at all in 64. Many were made for xp. So having them up and running at all on 32 is awesome. I run mame on Mac osx, xp, vista 32, and vista 64. In MY opinion, 64 is the WORST!!! lags, freezes etc. I don't have to read anything to see what is happening before my own eyes.

remember, this is my opinion based on my own tests, results may be different for different people.

[rlehm]

 I have never come across software relating to this hobby that does not run in 64 bit OSes.

please make a youtube tutorial on getting the atari jag emu working on your vista 64. I could never pull it off.

[Jdurg]

The original poster is talking about MAMEing using Vista, or any other 64-bit, OS.  I've got MAME running BEAUTIFULLY right now on my system.  Just spend five seconds on this forum, or on the internet in general, looking up how MAME runs on a 64-bit system.  The original poster asked about setting up their system for MAME and NOT for various random console emulators.  Therefore, what you posted is 100% a lie.  If you can't get your system up and running with 64 bit MAME, then make sure you actually have a 64-bit CPU and OS and that you follow all the instructions.

If the OP had asked about what OS to use to run random console emulators, then maybe you have a point.  I don't know.  This forum is by default about arcades which means "MAME".  If a poster is talking about console emulation, they will make mention of it.

So once again, I would like you to provide me with some proof that MAME64 is worse than MAME32 with regards to stability and performance.  I don't feel I need to prove anything since it is widely known.  (You are basically asking me to provide you with proof that the earth is round).

[Jdurg]

In addition, I run VirtuanNES, Project64, FEC Utra, ZSNES, SNES9x, Mupen64, Visual Boy Advance, and NullDC without ANY issues whatsoever.  I've also tried numerous front ends without any problems at all, so it looks like the issue is on your system.

BTW, here's the thread that undeniably proves that 64-bit OS is better than a 32-bit OS.

[rlehm]

You changed topics from mame to "I have never come across software relating to this hobby that does not run in 64 bit OSes." and asked you to back that up. AND now you want to get back on the topic of MAME only. oh, wait, now you want to list all the non-mame apps you run-emulate.. but don't want to prove anything? I'm not going to argue with you because you are clearly arguing with yourself.

sorry, not trying to be rude, but internet arguing is like eating air, it doesn't do anything for you.

Also, in case anyone else reads this, if you are into PC games with batch files, Vista64 is horrible. My front end allows you view PC games just like mame, nes, etc. I love the newer car games, and other pc games with minimal controller needs that run smooth with arcade controls. But most of the games made for XP that I have come accross do not recognize controls in Vista64. It was rather annoying. Some games are starting to be made available by microsoft updates, but most require changes to the actual game, and companies are not "patching" the games because they are working on newer games.

[Turnarcades]

I think using older OS's is a much better way to go for MAME cabs as newer OS's are too resource-draining.

[Jdurg]

1):  The OP asked if Vista could be used for MAME and I responded by stating that the only reason to use Vista for MAME is for the 64-bit support and that if he had XP-64 then use that as opposed to Vista.
2):  You jumped in and said "No, many appliction do not run in 64. I have been using all versions of Vista since launch, 64 is the buggiest, and worst for mame."
3):  I responded and said that you were wrong (which you are, as numbers don't lie) and said that in this hobby (Arcade cabinet building) that I haven't yet come across a 64-bit issue.  (Which I haven't yet).
4):  You proceed to argue that your console emulators have not run in 64-bit even though the OP NEVER mentioned anything but MAME.
5):  I then stated that the original poster asked about MAME and that your argument was not valid.  Still, since the thread had gone off-course, I answered your questions about console emulators by stating all of those that I run which work fine.



There is no problem not liking Vista, or any 64-bit applications, and not wanting to use it.  It's when you tell someone something that is completely not true and only clarify yourself once you have been pointed out as wrong that I have an issue with.   

[TOK]

In addition, I run VirtuanNES, Project64, FEC Utra, ZSNES, SNES9x, Mupen64, Visual Boy Advance, and NullDC without ANY issues whatsoever.  I've also tried numerous front ends without any problems at all, so it looks like the issue is on your system.

BTW, here's the thread that undeniably proves that 64-bit OS is better than a 32-bit OS.

Hows light gun support now?

[Jdurg]

I don't use lightguns as I'm not a big fan of those games, but I've read numerous threads here stating that lightgun support is now present in 64 bit systems.

[severdhed]

calm down guys, geeeez.  personally, i'd stay as far away from vista as possible.  i'm running it on two of my PCs here at the house, but i'd never consider it for my arcade cabinets...go with xp, it doesnt suck.

[Jdurg]

If you've got XP-64, go for it.  The gains you get from 64-bit Operating Systems is well worth it.

[Haze]

there are some nice speedups to be had with 64-bit with the universial recompiler now, although as many people have said, I wouldn't recommend vista 64 (or vista at all, really... it wants to control your PC *far* too much)

Some of the 64-bit linux distros are no doubt more lightweight and suitable for a MAME machine.  XP-64 has issues with driver support.. Vista-64 is .. Vista .....

[RayB]

I'm not sure claiming bugginess when running Vista 64 ON A MAC via virtual ware proves anything about how it runs on a PC.

[rlehm]

I'm not sure claiming bugginess when running Vista 64 ON A MAC via virtual ware proves anything about how it runs on a PC.

I never made that claim. Maybe I missed something, or.... maybe you did.

[rlehm]

The "math" he keeps talking about is HEAVILY dependent on the machine. My math would support my claim in an older computer. So the "math" can be dependent on variables and really not worth talking about unless you specify a "variable (computer). If not, it's like saying Variable (x) + 3 = is more because I say (x) is equal to 6, where you have  5. So I w"win" by a value of (1). 

I would rather trust a real world example, my own. For Vista to be awesome as claimed, you need a computer that costs a lot. I don;t think dumping that kind of money into this hobby when you could get a 200 dollar xp machine that'll do the job makes much sense. Anyone who goes out and buys a brand new Vista64 capable machine for Mame ONLY, needs help. Just my .02. Telling people they need a work horse that can run Vista64 really well is the worst advice I have ever heard. And I know you didn't say that, but many newbies will read that into it.

[rlehm]

I think using older OS's is a much better way to go for MAME cabs as newer OS's are too resource-draining.

resource-draining, there's is the variable At least you get it

[ark_ader]

I think using older OS's is a much better way to go for MAME cabs as newer OS's are too resource-draining.

Damn right!

DOS 6.22 all the way baby! 

[Jdurg]

The "math" he keeps talking about is HEAVILY dependent on the machine. My math would support my claim in an older computer. So the "math" can be dependent on variables and really not worth talking about unless you specify a "variable (computer). If not, it's like saying Variable (x) + 3 = is more because I say (x) is equal to 6, where you have  5. So I w"win" by a value of (1). 

I would rather trust a real world example, my own. For Vista to be awesome as claimed, you need a computer that costs a lot. I don;t think dumping that kind of money into this hobby when you could get a 200 dollar xp machine that'll do the job makes much sense. Anyone who goes out and buys a brand new Vista64 capable machine for Mame ONLY, needs help. Just my .02. Telling people they need a work horse that can run Vista64 really well is the worst advice I have ever heard. And I know you didn't say that, but many newbies will read that into it.

Valid if you assume that the OP only wants to play old games and has no intentions at all of playing anything post 1994.  You can't get a 64-bit version of DOS.  I'm not saying that Vista is the only option.  I'm just stating that you're better off going with a 64-bit OS otherwise you'd be wasting the power of any system you have.  Not everybody plans on using an old, archaic, system.  If the OP wants to spend money on a new computer for his cab, you are nothing but an ass-hole for calling him an "idiot".

[rlehm]

Valid if you assume that the OP only wants to play old games and has no intentions at all of playing anything post 1994.  You can't get a 64-bit version of DOS.  I'm not saying that Vista is the only option.  I'm just stating that you're better off going with a 64-bit OS otherwise you'd be wasting the power of any system you have.  Not everybody plans on using an old, archaic, system.  If the OP wants to spend money on a new computer for his cab, you are nothing but an ass-hole for calling him an "idiot".

He said

I'm running Vista, Business edition, and...

So, this doesn't apply to him. He already has Vista. Where does it say he "wants to spend money?"I think you need to learn to read what is actually said. You are perverting what is "actually" said into some make believe senario that makes you feel you need to argue.


Trust me, it is not the OP who I think is the idiot. Saying that buying a brand new comp to play mame is a bad idea is far from outright calling someone an ass-hole. You're the one who resorted to that style of attack. Usually the first person to start throwing out names like that knows they are wrong and losing and can't handle it. I'd rather not discuss this anymore. Dude, if you want to go buy an expensive machine and say it is necessary, be my guest. But trust me, my 200 dollar xp machine actually does run games like third Strike BETTER than my Vista64. My friend also runs Vista 64 and mame at work. He actually also likes his old xp at home more. But you keep telling yourself you need the Vista 64, I'm not stopping you, never did. Just saying in "MY OWN EXPERIENCE" it's not better, just more costly. maybe in "YOUR EXPIRIENCE" it's better. I'm glad that it is. I'm glad you're happy. I'm glad you know what's better for YOU. Just don't tell me "IS" better over all. Because then you make a blanket statement, and you are WRONG! I "think" that things like video cards, memory, hard drive space etc are more of a useful upgrade than the OS. Just my "OPINION." I "think" that if I spent 300 upgrading those things, I'd get more for my money than I would from buying Vista. Just my "OPINION."

My advice, re-read this entire thread. And this time, read it for what it says, and not for what you can defy and argue about. You may be oppositional defiant. There is help for that. Calm down, no one took your candy. I disagree with you, and you disagree with me. Can you handle that? I can. I can live my whole life knowing you disagreed with me and be completely ok with it. My whole post was based on my “OPINION” and yours was supported by “FACT,” but yet, the fact is, it’s not fact in all cases. Try to understand the difference.

You can't get a 64-bit version of DOS.

I have a copy of 64-bit XP on hand if I need to reformat

please don't direct the DOS convo at me, have it with him. I never mentioned it. Re-read, it's really time to.

But, if you truly want to be helpful, tell him how to boot up right to a Mame FE. That's what he wanted to know. As you say, Vista 64 is better, here is your chance to back that up. I have this going in my xp machines. Never tried it with Vista, yet. Can it be done? I'd also like to know.

[Paul Olson]

I think what jdburg was saying was that the only reason you would want to use vista would be for 64-bit support. The people who are running high end machines can take advantage of the newer mame code that is optimized for 64-bit and dual core processors. If you are not running high end (3-4gig core 2 duo) stick with the older OS's.

That is what I got out of the discussion anyway.

Some people will spend a lot of money on computer hardware for a mame machine. I wish I had the money to do it.  Iwould rather run a cheaper computer for everyday computing, and spend more on my cab. Office and Firefox run well on just about anything, and I don't play 3d games on the PC anymore; 360 and wii seem better suited for that. At this point, the computer is probably the cheapest part of my cabinet.