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Author Topic: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played  (Read 12376 times)

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Ummon

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2008, 11:59:47 pm »


speaking of misfitMAME - what is the release schedule like on that project?  The website I found (misfitmame.mameworld.net) shows a release about every 6 months (at best).  Is that the norm for updates?

I don't think it's predictable. Robbbert at Mameworld/MESS forums handles this, and I think he's much more involved in MESS. He did manage to get the DK foundry edition in, though.
Yo. Chocolate.


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People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

TheBrokentoken

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2008, 10:19:35 am »


speaking of misfitMAME - what is the release schedule like on that project?  The website I found (misfitmame.mameworld.net) shows a release about every 6 months (at best).  Is that the norm for updates?

I don't think it's predictable. Robbbert at Mameworld/MESS forums handles this, and I think he's much more involved in MESS. He did manage to get the DK foundry edition in, though.

Understood.  Thanks for the reply!
- Whitney Roberts
http://www.brokentoken.com

jasonbar

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2009, 01:17:57 pm »
Figured out this problem, thanks to Tafoid: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=91023.msg957371#msg957371

Pre-107 MAME needs a different flavor of artwork file for the bezel to work.  I found pre-107 Asteroids, Gyruss, & Time Pilot here:
http://mirrors.xmission.com/mame/artwork/
http://www.hellspark.com/dm/mame/software/mame/artwork/?C=N;O=D

Still looking for pre-107 artwork for Galaga (and Phoenix, though that's unrelated to this discussion).

Interestingly, I already had pre-107 artwork for Galaxian & Time Pilot, but not the post-107 artwork for those 2--gotta find those 2 now...


Long story short: looking for pre-107 Galaga & Phoenix, and looking for post-107 Time Pilot (which, oddly, isn't on http://mrdo.mameworld.info/mame_artwork_ingame.html?p=13#here ... is the bezel no longer supported since 107?).

Thanks,
-Jason


But, there's 1 bit that I can't yet figure out: bezels.  No bezels are displaying for these games, even though they have a bezel file in the "artwork" folder in the spinner mame directory & the .ini file for spinner MAME has use_bezels 1.  I also copied all the non-zipped files in the artwork directory, thinking that those might be necessary masks or something, but no luck.

Any idea how to get my bezels back for the spinner MAME?

Also annoying is that 2 of these 5 games that run on my "normal" MAME no longer show their bezels when I launch them: Galaxian & Time Pilot.  What would cause the bezels to no longer show in MAME115?

shardian

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2009, 02:12:43 pm »
Cool hack, but I prefer the original controls. Now if only I had a stick that would properly play Time Pilot and sinistar though...

jasonbar

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2009, 02:14:17 pm »
Cool hack, but I prefer the original controls.

Agreed--that's why I have *both* the originals & the hacks on my cabinet!   :D

-Jason

leapinlew

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2009, 03:04:41 pm »
Cool hack, but I prefer the original controls. Now if only I had a stick that would properly play Time Pilot and sinistar though...

To me, the proper controls for Time Pilot/Gyruss is a spinner. Just makes sense. The game isn't properly geared for someone using a spinner and it's much easier, but I think it's much more intuitive.

Star Castle is another game that could use a spinner.

jasonbar

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2009, 03:33:51 pm »
To me, the proper controls for Time Pilot/Gyruss is a spinner. Just makes sense. The game isn't properly geared for someone using a spinner and it's much easier, but I think it's much more intuitive.

Star Castle is another game that could use a spinner.


If you (or somebody) is going to run with this, then we could come up with a pretty big list.  Essentially anything with the left/right rotate buttons would be fun to try in spinner mode too.

Off the top of my head:
Armor...Attack!
Rip Off
Space War
Asteroids Deluxe
Gravitar
Space Duel
Eliminator
Sinistar?  You'd need a Thrust button added...

And, since Galaga & Galaxian were in the first hack, you could also add a bajillion move-left/right-across-the-bottom-and-shoot-the-stuff-coming-down-at-you games:
Space Invaders
Phoenix
Pleiades
etc etc etc

 :D

-Jason
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 03:12:04 am by jasonbar »

Ummon

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2009, 12:03:59 am »
I think Sinistar would need extra hacking for that. Plus, I think Sinistar is not only 49-way, but incremental from center to finish, in which case, you'd be missin out on that part using a digital control. But, hey, maybe a Space Navigator would be perfect there?
Yo. Chocolate.


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People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

redketchup

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2009, 05:14:27 pm »
Hi

I'm a newbe here and I just finish to built my cab, so Is there someone can explain to me what i have exactly to do for this modification work...

thank's Gino

lcddream

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2009, 11:45:15 am »
To the above poster

read this

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=71845.0


can someone repost the diff file? I keep getting an error when I try to download...

zallax

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2009, 09:36:25 pm »
I am unable to download the diff either.  Please, can someone re-upload the diff file for this?

leapinlew

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2009, 11:28:17 pm »
 :cheers:

lcddream

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2009, 01:41:46 pm »
weirdness - i still get an error:

+0dzFMYC.TXT.part could not be saved, because the source file could not be read.

i'll try later with ie - maybe a firefox issue?

zallax

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2009, 09:10:29 pm »
bump

lcddream

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2010, 08:59:36 pm »
any chance this could be added to the repository?

taylormadelv

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2010, 03:36:09 pm »
Genius! Now make an auto fire option and Gyruss will be perfect!

Xiaou2

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2010, 05:59:54 pm »

 Taking the Skill out of the game does not make it Perfect.

 Its Perfect the way it was designed.

leapinlew

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2010, 05:44:54 pm »

 Taking the Skill out of the game does not make it Perfect.

 Its Perfect the way it was designed.


Changing the way it was designed doesn't necessarily take the skill out of it. Besides, some of us play games for fun - not for a challenge.

Why you being such a drag?

Xiaou2

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2010, 06:17:50 pm »

 For me, a game that has little to no challenge is not very fun at all.

 (Try you hand at "Leprechaun" for more than 10min and see how fun it is)


 Im not trying to be a "Drag" .. But it ticks me off when someone says that
a game would be  "Perfect"   if you took away the 90% of the challenge.

 Gyruss has two main areas of challenge:


 1) Limited speed of craft
 
    You need to time your moves carefully, else no matter what happens you
will not be able to escape a fatal blow.   Also, since the craft moves a little
slow... you often get impatient, and try something dangerous or are reckless.

  If you can zoom around like Tempest, then its nearly impossible for the
baddies to nail you, because their shots are timed slow to your ships slow
movement speed.  Basically, its like you racing a 3 yr old.  Theres no competition,
unless you are so reckless and lazy, that you allow him to catch up and beat you.


 2) Timing of Shots

     Your craft has a limited fire rate... and so you must time your shots
well in order to survive long.   That rate can be fast, if you successively hit
targets...  however, this is a little dangerous, as they can bomb you too.

 If you add autofire, all you have to do is spin the dial.  If you are that lazy/skill-less,
and have no desire to have any deep interaction with a game.... why even play?
Just have someone else play and watch them... or go watch a movie / TV.


 When a game is kicking your butt,  its more rewarding when you get far with it.
If a game is childishly easy, and you can play forever and ever without much
difficulty at all, there is little value / joy from playing & defeating it.


Ginsu Victim

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2010, 10:00:38 pm »
I agree with you, Xiaou2. Example: I absolutely hate Galaga with the fast shoot hack. It removes almost ALL of the challenge.

(2019 edit - I play Galaga with fast shoot more than regular now.  :lol )
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 09:51:50 am by Ginsu Victim »

leapinlew

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2010, 12:43:54 pm »
I disagree with both of you.

People have different degrees of skill. So, your 90% might make the game playable for others. While you may think a game is too easy, I think it makes the game playable. I have fun playing it, and I can assure you that it fits well with my skill level. I'm sure you might be able to play it for hours and be bored - so this hack isn't good for you. I wouldn't even play the game without the spinner control. With Mame, we have to make decisions we were never afforded in the arcade. Do we allow pause, unlimited credits, and save states? Some people feels this ruins the arcade experience.

I love defender and I'm not very good at it. I don't mind controls that are a bit on the complicated side. I prefer time pilot and gyruss with a spinner. Thats all.


lcddream

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2010, 02:07:31 pm »
Agreed - so can ya upload it to the repository??   >:D

lcddream

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2010, 12:32:32 pm »
Strike that - download works now in thread. Thanks!

BullionKing

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2013, 08:25:58 pm »
Hi - newbie here - been lurking for a while.
Know this is an OLD POST, but Gyruss is one of my favourites.

Lots of arguments about #original# controls from purists.

In my youth (1980's) the version of Gyruss in our Arcade only had the DIAL - and it worked a dream !
I cannot get on with it any other way.

This was back in the UK, before moving to Canada. Perhaps the spec's were different ?

Was looking for a cabinet here on ebay - but they all have the joystick - so thats how I ended up on this site - will have to build myself one !

leapinlew

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2013, 09:06:39 am »
Got any pics? I've never heard of an arcade version using it.

opt2not

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2013, 10:21:24 am »
Yeah I call shenanigans on this. Physically, the hardware does not support analog control, unless they installed some digital --> analog conversion PLUS have the ROMS re-written on the board...
But if you insist that's what you remember, it was most likely a bootleg.

dgame

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2013, 11:05:48 am »
 it was most likely Tempest  :dunno

leapinlew

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2013, 01:29:45 pm »
Yeah I call shenanigans on this. Physically, the hardware does not support analog control, unless they installed some digital --> analog conversion PLUS have the ROMS re-written on the board...
But if you insist that's what you remember, it was most likely a bootleg.

Did the mame devs ever support trackballs in track-n-field? At some point, there was a conversion from buttons to a trackball and it was a much better experience in my opinion. It's questionable on where the trackballs even came from or how they worked.

opt2not

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2013, 02:06:49 pm »
Yeah I think later versions of T&F were converted to trackball, but I've never heard of Gyruss going down this route.  Been googling all morning about it, and haven't found anything.

leapinlew

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2013, 05:02:36 pm »
Yeah I think later versions of T&F were converted to trackball, but I've never heard of Gyruss going down this route.  Been googling all morning about it, and haven't found anything.

I want your job. I'm betting you see a lot of posts in Google of me saying Gyruss should've been made with a spinner in mind? heh.

opt2not

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2013, 05:11:47 pm »
Most people want my job. ;)

Xiaou2

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2013, 12:04:29 am »
And as we know in the case of analog controls games, where an optical control is used instead is not satisfactory. Hence, being confined to the original 'pace' when using a spinner would be hell.

Point taken...might be OK for games with quick movement. Not so good with Space Invaders.

 I think thats the point isnt it?   Space Invaders is a slow game...  But, so is  Gyruss, and Time Pilot.

 Nothing moves that fast in any of those games.   In fact, thats the point of Space Invaders.  Its so painfully slow, that the actual challenge, is not to lose patience and get reckless with too many close-call moments.  Gyruss & TP are the same type of game.  A game more of patience -vs- risky actions... that you cant undo, due to your lower speed limitations.

 Tempest however, while seemingly not that fast, requires non-stop firing to clear the line-walls, just to be able
to hit the enemy.  And because of that, you need to be able to move very fast.  Not only that, but the enemies dont fly past you.  If they make it to the end of the tunnel.. your almost always destroyed.  Gyruss is more lazy.  Its more about learning the enemy bullet drop timing and patterns... and taking the risks, or playing it safe.


 Star Trek, has a limit on its Turn ratio.  You cant just spin so fast that you make a solid ball.   
Same for racing games like Turbo... where you can steer, but not spin out in place.  Even as Turbo has a fast steering movement... its not 1 to 1 ratio.  Its in the garage now, so Ill just guess that Its more like 1 complete wheel turn, to
2" of steering... or a 2 to 1 ratio.  Where as the TP demo shows a higher ratio in the opposite direction:
1 wheel turn  = 15 on screen spins... or a 1 to 15 ratio.

 Which leads me to a slight change in my opinion...

 IF you limit the turn ratio to be more in sync with the real movement speed.. then it may be ok.
For example, in Time Pilot, you shouldnt be able to do 'in place' 360s.  Spinning should equate much closer to the games original speed, when a joysticks being held down. 

 Once you stop spinning, it stops the 'button depress'.  A certain level of dead zone may be needed, for changing directions, as well as being able to maintain a straight line.  Which could be programmed in so that only after a certain amount of spin, would then start the movement process. (sensitivity?) Stops would be immediate however.

 
 Another thing that might be done, would be to speed up the enemies.  Such as in the Speedup hack in MsPaman.  As that would up the difficulty, making a better match to your increased (but not over the top) spinner speeds.


einarsen

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2016, 02:58:15 pm »

Hmmm... As someone who doesn't typically compile code... is there an option for an .exe download for this mod? I'd love to play Gyruss and Time Pilot on my new spinner bartop. When I set the four directions on MAME I get a strange behavior where it moves 180 degrees, then stops, then moves if I spin the opposite direction.

Not a newbie, but don't typically compile code.

--Brad

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #73 on: September 06, 2016, 01:42:54 am »
Very interesting hack, too bad that is not straight usable in latest mame.

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #74 on: June 18, 2019, 10:41:12 am »
sorry for the newbie question, but how do i go about adding the diff.txt file in mame?

negative1

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2019, 12:09:35 pm »
sorry for the newbie question, but how do i go about adding the diff.txt file in mame?

follow the instructions in the tutorial to compile MAME:
http://forum.attractmode.org/index.php?topic=348.30

later
-1

Derken73

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #76 on: Yesterday at 09:22:30 am »
i gave it a try but unfortunately it's a bit above my skill set... :dunno
Would someone be so kind to do it for me and other not so tech savvy people?

I'll be happy to pay a few bucks for it!


My goal is to get my Ultimarc Spintrack working with Gyruss
http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm

Mike A

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #77 on: Yesterday at 09:43:45 am »
Gyruss is one of the great classic games. I wish people would stop trying to wreck it.

leapinlew

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #78 on: Yesterday at 05:55:40 pm »
i gave it a try but unfortunately it's a bit above my skill set... :dunno
Would someone be so kind to do it for me and other not so tech savvy people?

I'll be happy to pay a few bucks for it!


My goal is to get my Ultimarc Spintrack working with Gyruss
http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm

I'm not sure I even have a copy of the fully compiled version of Mame that allows spinner control for Gyruss and Time Pilot. Let me take a look.

Mr. Peabody

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Re: Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played
« Reply #79 on: Yesterday at 10:12:00 pm »
Gyruss is one of the great classic games. I wish people would stop trying to wreck it.

It's a great game either way. The native rate of travel is fast enough such that a spinner makes it only a little easier.