Smash TV inspired control panel -- please comment!

[m_mcgover]

Sorry in advance for the long post....

OK, so last year I picked up a 25" Smash TV cabinet with the plans to Mame it to play the classic games from my youth.  So that now makes 3 STVs with dgame and IDDQDs in the fold.

Before you ask - don't worry - I have not, nor will I, do anything to harm this game.  Everything I will do will be completely reversible.  With that said, I've been working hard to put together a control panel does not look out of place on this cabinet.  I want the control panel  to stay consistant with the Smash TV theme, yet be flexible enough to let me play a lot of the classics.

I am eager to hear any comments or suggestions for making my control panel better, so please comment!

And, although no artwork yet, I have some ideas for extending the original Smash TV control panel art to keep this panel consistant with the original machines theme...

OK, on to the design.  The biggest decision that I struggled with was whether to go with a 2 person or 4 person control panel.  I tried to come up with a 4player panel since I know my kids would love one and with the 4 sticks already there, it makes sense.  But, in the end, for version 1.0, I think I will stick with a 2player only panel.

Here is my design:


Some details that are not coming through due to text sizes:
- middle joysticks are Williams 49-ways controlled by 2 gpwiz49s, to give a lot of flexibility for playing 1p alternating games that use different joysticks like Ms. Pac, Qbert, etc.
- outer joysticks are (for now) wico leafs (but may become) wico p360s
- buttons along top, from left to right are - p1 coin, p1 start, pause, esc, p2 coin, p2 start
- J1 & J3 are about 14" apart, which I think would feel pretty good for Robotron
- the panel is 30" wide (just 2" wider than original 28" panel) x 16" high (again, just 2" higher)
- the bottom area will allow for pinball flipper buttons, and the width is 19 1/2" wide, which I think is close to normal pinball tables.

I am toying with making the lower 2 trackball area a rotating panel.  If I go this route, one of the sides will have spinner + flightstick for Tron.  I'm not sure what to put on the other side...(I have a dedicated Star Wars, so a yoke it won't be)...maybe a steering wheel for Spy Hunter, although I'm not sure of the room.

As for the 4player version, I figured that with another 2-3 inches, I could squeeze in two sets of 4 buttons in a diamond arrangement for joysticks 2 & 4.  But, the resulting panel was not symmetric, so I'm not so sure I like it....

So, whaddya think?

[Aceldamor]

I think it looks really well done.

Curious to know why you went NEO GEO with the buttons vs. Jamma.

As for the trackball idea, I like it as well.  I know some of the other peeps here have made some pretty sweet rigs for hot swappable panels, you might look into that.

[m_mcgover]

Thanks Aceldamor-

I have four buttons instead of 3 as I wanted 1 button in a defender/stargate reverse position.  I mirrored the 4th button for joystick 2.  In fact, I will probably try to add two more buttons in a close to stargate positioning near joystick 2, since I really like that game and want my machine to support it properly.  To do that will mean doing something with the right hand trackball -- either moving it or cutting its mounting plate...I'm open to ideas on what to do here...

[Aceldamor]

Do you not plan on playing any kind of fighter, or something that will use more than 4 buttons per player, or will this literally be a pure "old skool" cab...80's style?

As for the stargate buttons, placement will determine what you want to do with the panel.  There is room under the buttons as they are configured now for extra buttons, but that will not be authentic.

You could just go with a completely modular panel, 2 levels deep.

top can be for sticks and button combos, bottom could be trackballs, spinners, etc.

[m_mcgover]

I was not a fighter guy, I am definitely going for more of an "old skool" feel...but if I wanted to, I could always add another 3 buttons for joysticks 1 & 2 above the three already there.  I'm not sure I want to go two levels (by levels you mean elevations?)...one idea I had was to include the missing stargate buttons on the rotating/modular trackball area. 

[ahofle]

You definitely will want to mock that up.  One thing that sticks out to me is that you may be uncomfortable playing trackball games with the TBs that close to the bottom of the panel.  You won't have much room to rest your wrists (or they will rest right on the edge of the CP which is not good).  The trackballs also look too close together if you were intending on playing two player simultaneous games.  If player 1 rolls right and player 2 rolls left at the same time, you will collide.  Player two will also be forced to stand sideways assuming they are right handed.

[Aceldamor]

I was not a fighter guy, I am definitely going for more of an "old skool" feel...but if I wanted to, I could always add another 3 buttons for joysticks 1 & 2 above the three already there.  I'm not sure I want to go two levels (by levels you mean elevations?)...one idea I had was to include the missing stargate buttons on the rotating/modular trackball area. 

Nah, I don't mean elevations as in different heights, I meant 2 levels as in the section where your joysticks are could be modular, allowing you to change joysticks/button combos as needed. Below it where the trackballs are, at the same height could be modular, for when you want to trade out spinners, etc.

I think ahofle is right though, you might be bumpin' if you use dual trackballs together.

[Jakobud]

Sorry, but horrible layout imo.

The trackballs will be in the way for any game you use a joystick for.  Think about it.  How many games will you be using joysticks for?  Like probably 95+% of games?  And how often would you actually be using TWO trackballs?  Like <1% or less of games.

Sacrificing comfort and playability for 95% of the games you play just so you can put in 2 trackballs that you will use less than 1% of the time is just dumb.

Use more common sense when you design it and you'll figure out a better layout.

[m_mcgover]

Thanks for the suggestions, Ahofle --
Can you share any rules-of-thumb for distance between trackballs?  Currently it is at 10".  I could easily make it 12" without too much trouble, but is this enough? 

Also, any guidelines on amount of space below the trackball?

And, I'm not sure I follow the player two sideways comment.  The center of J3/J1 and J2/J4 joystick pairs in my design are about 1.5" further from control panel center than the original Smash TV.  I would be surprised if this was noticeable.  But, I will be mocking up the design this weekend.  I'm just waiting on some controls to get through the US postal system 

[ahofle]

Thanks for the suggestions, Ahofle --
Can you share any rules-of-thumb for distance between trackballs?  Currently it is at 10".  I could easily make it 12" without too much trouble, but is this enough? 

Also, any guidelines on amount of space below the trackball?

Really it's all personal preference, but just off the top of my head I would think you'd need more than a foot.  The best thing to do would be to take some very stiff cardboard and layout the controls on it.  Then you can try it out and see for yourself.  Have a 2nd person to use the other trackball and see how close you are, etc.

And, I'm not sure I follow the player two sideways comment.  The center of J3/J1 and J2/J4 joystick pairs in my design are about 1.5" further from control panel center than the original Smash TV.  I would be surprised if this was noticeable.  But, I will be mocking up the design this weekend.  I'm just waiting on some controls to get through the US postal system 

Well I was actually referring to the trackballs in coop play.  Assuming the 2nd player is right handed, he will need to stand slightly to the left of the trackball which would be right in the way of player one.  Standing sideways (so only your right shoulder is facing the CP) would be the only way to fit in.


EDIT: added a pic of a Marble Madness control panel to give you an idea how far apart the 2 TBs are.

[Ummon]

Classic cabinets only measure about 19-21 inches, right? Those TBs on MM might be a foot apart. The thing is, since this is a reversible mod, there's going to be compromise. The inside sticks, however, I think are more the problem. Not them being behind the TBs, as unless one's sitting really low in front of the panel their arms will be plenty above them, but being so close to each other. You can do it, but it'll very likely be a recipe for constant bumping of knuckles. Even the original spacing of STV is kinda close. In all, you might be best making your own CP that extends out. Lastly, that half-rotating idea might be really unrealistic.

[willhs]

This gives me ideas -- if you make some mockups, would you mind posting pics?  I'm putting the finishing touches on my own CP, but I may need to tweak it a bit.  :-)

[m_mcgover]

First off -- Thanks everyone for the comments.  In the end your suggestions will drive this towards a better design.  As for specific comments....

@ahofle - ahhh.   I get it.  Yes, if the trackballs are too close you are right that the right hand player will need to rotate so as not to be standing on top of the left hand player.

@Ummon- Marble Madness was ~25" wide, so based on the picture, I'm going to estimate that the trackballs are ~16" apart.  Yes, this control panel will extend beyond the original, I'm just trying to avoid something that looks out of place on this machine.

@Jakobud - You may be right.  I am trying to squeeze 2 trackballs in there, mostly for Marble Madness.  I may decide to revert to a single trackball.  But before I do, I will check out this layout with a mockup, but I tend to agree with Ummon that I think for most people, the trackballs will not be in the way for joystick games since the players' arms will be above the joysticks

@willhs - Yes, I can post pictures after the mockup.  I'm waiting on controls.  I hope to get them in by Sat...I would really hate for them to arrive on Monday! 

[arzoo]

m_mcgover,
When I designed my cp, I had some similar requirements - joysticks for SmashTV and a button layout good for a lot of classics. Two suggestions for your design (beyond what others have already said) - I would put a couple of buttons between the player 1 and player 2 joysticks (center on the cp). This may require pushing the sticks farther to the sides or even increasing the width of the cp by an inch or two, but they'll be really useful for classic games, help keep the single player centered on the panel, and give a choice of left or right hand play. Also, I'd go with U360s rather than 49-way with GPWiz49s. Just like your concept, my cp had 49s for the center sticks, but I later switched to U360s - since they have an analog mode, they're just more flexible.

[Turnarcades]

Be very careful this does not turn into a frankenpanel through either being too crowded or just plain confusing.

I admire the attempt to get max versatility and you have thought it through, but my general observation is that people tend to stick with a certain layout that covers most bases without overcrowding or build complexity, so as to compromise but allow most games to play well. Ask yourself how often you will play certain games one or two player, as the resounding feedback I've seen is that extra sticks, 'balls and the like soon get tiresome and a lot of people regret the extra trouble/expense/crowding.