VOTE for a NEW LIGHTGUN...

[Xiaou2]

 Calling in the Troops...


 Ive started talks with EMS about them making a new version of their Lightguns.
 
 The problem I am having... is convincing them that people are willing to Pay for the
improved features.


 Im not the richest person in the world... but,  if a PC gun existed that worked 100% perfect
with Arcade quality feedback was to be made... I wouldnt mind paying $100 to $150 for it.
Sure, it might take a while to save for... but, its a well worthy addition.



 Heres the deal...

 A Real powerful arcade quality coil will cost a good deal of money added to gun.   However,
Ive made a suggestion that the gun ship without any feedback at all.    That it has room for a
feedback Kit that people can buy at a later time if and when they desire.

 Sound good?  Would you buy such a kit?
Price you would pay for arcade quality powerful kicker coil unit kit?

 
 Ive suggested a port at the bottom of the gun for the addition of a reload pedal  ala-Time Crisis.
Again... I got the  'cost'  bit.   Whats an extra dollar for a port?!   Agree?

 Ive also asked for a quote for a reload pedal assembly as well.

 
 
 Now... the other issues Ive brought up is with the  distance needed to stand away from the
screen.   

 The guy said that is related to the firmware calculations hard-set inside the gun.    Ive
suggested that they may use software for the user to be able to program a gun,  and that the
gun use a Flashable firmware so that it can be updated and changed as needed.

 Thus again, this would add a little cost to the gun...  and Im sure I will get that response again for
this suggestion.

 
 
 So, we need to let them know what fair price we are willing to pay for a Top Quality Gun.   I
think we can convince them if we get enough votes  and or possible  Pre-Orders. (baring a
test unit that someone can confirm it works flawlessly)
   

 Please Reply with:

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?
5) How many guns will would you buy?

6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in? 
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?

9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?
10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?
11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?


 Additional:

 -Any other feature request?
 -Ideas/Suggestions?

[Xiaou2]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?

 $70

2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?

 $160 ?

3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?

 Yes

4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?

 Up to $70?

5) How many guns will would you buy?

 2 - eventually

6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in?

 Yes


7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?

 Thats fine too


8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?


 No.  I love Arcade Recoil.


9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?

 No.


10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?

 Yes.

11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?


 Thats fine too.

[TPB]

Xiaou2,

You've just conducted a Q & A session with yourself.   

My preferences differ.

I'd rather a gun that sticks to essentials, but does them well.

A gun that adheres to the KISS principle.

I would rather not see the following features in a gun, as they are "fluff" that add to the bulk of the unit, inflate the price, and divert the product away from its core design goals :

** No recoil or feedback required.

** No laser pointers required.  These can damage the eyesight (a concern when kids are using the guns), and are banned in some countries.


Most Important Features - these should be the key design goals of the gun :

** Accuracy and Consistency.  Once calibrated, the gun fires at the PRECISE point on the display where it was aimed.  And EVERY shot consistently exhibits this accuracy - the "odd dud shot" that's inaccurate is not acceptable ... unless that dud shot was due to a dud aim by the player.   

** NO NEED TO STAND A MILE BACK FROM THE DISPLAY.  The gun remains accurate at close distances.

** Rugged Build Quality and Durability.  The gun is rugged enough to cope with sustained, long term use, including the odd bit of rough handling.

** Ease of Use.  The drivers are simple to install, and work.  Idiot proof.  No stuffing around required.

** Reliability.  The gun won't stop working, or otherwise crash, in the middle of a game.

** TWO GUNS fully supported - Ease of Use & Reliability must equally apply when two guns are in use simultaneously.

** Compatibility - the gun works under Vista and XP.  The gun works under MAME and other emulators.

** Value for money -  We're prepared to pay the necessary price for a quality product with all the essential features.  But we don't want to pay an exorbitant amount, and we don't want to pay for unnecessary fluff.


Just my 2 cents.   

[Turnarcades]

This is a subject I feel very strongly on so I have a air few comments and suggestions. In keeping with your Q&A format, here goes.....

1-4) A fair price depends on what it's base features are. However, as most peripherals for arcade control panels fall under $100, I would expect to pay no more in GBP (£). For a USB, fully working, accurate, stylish and heavyweight gun with mappable buttons I would expect to pay about £35-£40. For a more complete gun with expansion possibilities (pedals etc.) and a good recoil feature and overall imitation of my favourite arcade light gun - the G-cons found on Point Blank - I would pay £70-£80.

5) I would of course buy 2 guns.

6-9) See 1-4. As I don't think a 'bolt-on' arcade recoil is feasible, I think they should offer 3 base units. All should be exactly the same in appearance and all heavyweight so they can be moulded at a factory in the same way and they will all look the biz on everyone's machine, but designed so the electronics can vary from shel to shell based on people's budget. For example;

Regular: As above, with good motion tracking and accuracy, a few buttons on the barrel/handle etc, but a solid shell with no frills, for about £30 ($60).
Arcade: As above, but with good recoil and possibly vibration, and perhaps a small analog stick on the back (akin to the Topguns), as could then potentially be used for other things like wepon selection and things, for about £60 ($120)
Immersive: As above, with expansion ports/wires for further connectivity, tuneable recoil rate, maybe a small trackball on the back or a dual analog/d-pad control extension ( a la wii nunchuk) for use on FPS's too. I would say up to £100 ($200) is fair for a gun like this, even though I'm not an FPS fan myself.

I await the day....

[TOK]

I'd pay $150 for a full sized gun with a kicker that plugged right into a PC.

Does any manufacturer wants to get bogged down with upgrade kits for things like the kicker and a pedal on a niche item? I'd think they'd just want to sell it one way. I'd happily take a button on the gun as a substitute for a pedal.

[northerngames]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun? $120.00 shipped in the USA

2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun? $120.00 shipped

3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit? $20.00 if it is built with quality

4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit? is that not the same as above?

5) How many guns will would you buy? 2 for self but may do bulk if there were a price break for quantity

6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in? yes I dont like wires all over the outside of my cab just for a gun   

7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit? no to keep the overall cost down

8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available? recoil is a plus but not a must

9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features? no there's plenty of them floating around already

10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features? no all features but affordable not expensive

11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later? software upgrable yes hardware upgradable no

COMMENT:  There is nothing wrong with the guns EMS has now they just need to make the software updateable and make the guns more accuarate without having standing in the neighbors yard in order to work.
 
they new to do a revision is all to suit or work with arcade gamers needs instead of pc gamers.

[shardian]

I would rather see a reasonably priced Happ arcade gun interface before anything like this.

Recoil would be cool for oh...5 minutes. Besides, a spring activated recoil for a pistol is more than adequate. I have a $5 toy gun with a kick ass recoil.

[ShoLouie]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun? $100 plus shipping
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun? absolute max would have to be under $160
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit? under my max, yes
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit? not much, i don't think its an abosolute need to have item.
5) How many guns will would you buy? 1-2, depending on how much the final price ended up being.

6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in?  like i said, not required
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit? sounds like a good idea, yea.
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available? i like the idea of leaving room for one later.

9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features? no, accuracy is an ABSOLUTE MUST
10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features? affordable with all the features, sure
11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later? yes

[SavannahLion]

Ive suggested a port at the bottom of the gun for the addition of a reload pedal  ala-Time Crisis.
Again... I got the  'cost'  bit.   Whats an extra dollar for a port?!   Agree?

 Ive also asked for a quote for a reload pedal assembly as well.

I disagree with adding a port on the bottom of the gun. Better to move a gun pedal connection back to the PC or, if they must, back along the cable line with a split adapter at the end. IMO, there are a lot of reasons for this. Not the least of which that cable length would be an issue with people of different heights. Too short and tall people would have to crouch down. Too long and short people might trip or get tangled in the line. A cable connected to the PC would have the added benefit of forcing the players to a fixed distance from the screen which would help resolve, in some cases, the distance problem the gun experiences.
 
Which kind of leads me into what TPB is saying. I'd rather have a gun that sticks to the KISS principle. Whatever features the gun does have, it does them very well. I'd would much rather pay $60 for a simple, heavy, gun that does what it does very very well than pay twice as much for a gun with twice as many features but only does any of them in a half assed manner.

We're DIY'ers, what's stopping anyone from leveraging an iPac and creating their own foot pedal? One of the suppliers will probably be able supply the parts needed for the foot pedal, such as the small square of diamond plate and hinge.

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?
   Nothing over $100.
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?
   See #1
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?
   Probably not
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?
   Probably wouldn't bother
5) How many guns will would you buy?
   Wouldn't it be two?
6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in?
   If it does this feature very well, yes. If not, I'll forgo it.
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?
   Not KISS.
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?
   If the gun does everything else very well, yes.

9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?
   Whatever it does, it better do it very well.
10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?
   How expensive, how many features, how well does it do them all?
11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?
   No.

[TheShanMan]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?

$75

2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?

$100

3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?

Probably not

4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?

Probably wouldn't bother

5) How many guns will would you buy?

Two, and this is a limiting factor on how much I'm willing to pay for a gun - I don't want to be paying $300 or more just for guns!

6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in?

At this point, I don't care - I want a gun that is reliable, accurate, and not too expensive

7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?

Probably not (no feedback, no kit)

8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?

Probably (see #6)

9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?

No

10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?

No

11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?

Don't care about upgradeability, but I'm willing to pay for a gun as described in #6.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'm with Shardian on this one.
We've got perfectly good guns.
We just don't have is a way to interface them.

If you want the real arcade recoil, you need an interface for a real arcade gun with recoil.
If you want a real arcade foot pedal, it should not hook to the gun itself in any way.
I've got some that do that, and it's annoying, and messes up your grip.

I personally would like to see an interface that will work with the arcade shotguns.

[Q*Bert_OP]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?
 $75

2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?
$125

3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?
Yes, however built-in recoil is preferred

4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?
No more than $50

5) How many guns will would you buy?
2 (per cab I build)

6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in?
Absolutely

7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?
No

8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?
NO! Why would I buy another PC gun that feels like what I have?

9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?
No

10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?
Yes

11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?
I'd rather have all the features at once


-ALSO-
I'd like it to look like a typical arcade 45 cal. light gun.

[wbassett]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun? $50-$75 with shipping included or reasonable shipping- but it also needs to be good quality
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun? No more than $100
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit? Not if the gun is $100, that should be a feature at that price, but isn't a requirement in my opinion.
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit? Probably wouldn't, but if the price were around $40 I wouldn't complain.
5) How many guns will would you buy? At $100, 2 of course, what's a MAME shooter game without two guns .  If the gun is reliable and less expensive than $100 then more, but I have some personal custom gun projects I am working on.

6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in?  If it works and doesn't feel cheap, and also can be disabled, sure as long as it doesn't double the price of the gun.
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit? Sure why not, but it's not a requirement.
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available? Same as the vibration feedback, it's cool but not a requirement.  I'd rather have a solid feeling gun that is extremely accurate.

9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features? No,  all guns should have at least the same basic features.
10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features? Depends on the definition of 'Expensive'
11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later? Depends on the price of the gun, the type of upgrgades, and the price of the upgrades.


Right now I'd just like to see a gun that is plug and play, works with any version of MAME, is highly accurate, and durable.  These guns can take some abuse, and as careful as people try to be, sooner or later one is going to be dropped.  The gun has to be able to withstand that as well as the mechanics of the gun be solid and not break after a couple months of use.

Some other things I would like to see would be a better LED IR design, specifically a wireless version.  LEDs can run for a very long time on a couple AA batteries, so that shouldn't be a big issue, but having wires running all over the place is.

Better calibration and a more realistic distance to the screen.  Basically, no further away from the screen than the original arcade game was.

I definitely want to see any company provide plenty of QA testing and work out the bugs before going to market.

Lastly- We're in the 21st Century... I'd love a wireless gun!

My PS3 gun literally took three minutes to setup and start playing the game, and it is very accurate over every inch of my 55" HDTV.  That's the type of ease and performance I really would like to see for a PC light gun.  BTW, I paid $70 for it and it included a game, so I know good quality guns don't have to cost a fortune.

[divemaster127]

My answers are the same as Xiaou2 & I also agree with shardian it would be awesome to be able to use the happ guns.  They are the arcade style that has been used for years & you get the authentic look with the rubber hoses etc., I wish we could find someone to make these work, I would be willing to donate a of guns for the cause.  In all of mame the gun market is the weakest.  I'm 4 years still waiting on a descent gun solution.
dm

[AndyWarne]

As an aside, as I mentioned on another thread I was going to contact some people in a semiconductor company who make custom optical sensors, about doing a sensor similar to the Wii-mote but using four corner-mounted LEDs.
They came back to me and said they could do it.
Not so good news is the cost is between 1 and 1.5 million dollars...
So thats on the back burner for now hehe....
Andy

[ahofle]

Not so good news is the cost is between 1 and 1.5 million dollars...

 

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm with Shardian on this one.
We've got perfectly good guns.
We just don't have is a way to interface them.

I'm with these guys ...

[SavannahLion]

Not so good news is the cost is between 1 and 1.5 million dollars...

Group buy!

[aljupy]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?
50$/70  +Shipping
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?
100$
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?
Yes
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?
40$
5) How many guns will would you buy?
2 / 3
6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in?
OF COURSE!!! A Robust Recoil like Time Crisis arcade has!!!!
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?
Ok
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?
A like robust arcade Recoil.
A Good recoil gives a little more Realism. Also 70% of arcades has it

9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?
No. I like extra features. Also it exists other lightguns without features at low price with low quality too.
10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?
Yes. See point 9
11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?
That´s fine too. A good medium of quality/price is always a good bet. First TOPGUN made it very nice.

[Lilwolf]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?
70
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?
200 for two
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?
possible.
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?
20
5) How many guns will would you buy?
2

6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in? 
good
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?
best
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?
worse

9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?
10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?
11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?

Recoil isn't my big issue.  I care more about weight.  I would rather see a gun with a real metal skin without recoil then a plastic one with it.  But recoil would be nice.

[MKChamp]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?
70
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?
200 for two
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?
possible.
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?
20
5) How many guns will would you buy?
2
6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in? 
good
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?
best
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?
worse
9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?
10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?
11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?
yes

Sorry, Lilwolf...I copy and pasted your answers since they refected my thoughts exactly...and why re-invent the wheel.

The biggest thing I hope with new guns from EMS would be to increase the lens refraction so you don't have to stand so friggin' far back from the cab. Like someone else stated earlier...it would be nice to stand as close to the screen as you could on the real arcade.

[TimmyB]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?
$75
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?
$125
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?
Yes
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?
$25
5) How many guns will would you buy?
2
6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in? 
yes
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?
recoil would increase the cool factor, but honestly I would setting for just being able to blast something with some accuracy
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?
recoil not my highest priority
9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?
no
10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?
yes
11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?
no

[bvicarious]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?
$100

2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?
$150

3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?
Yes, but it should be included if the gun were $150 or so.

4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?
$25-50 depending on quality, and the base price of the gun

5) How many guns will would you buy?
2. How many gun games have more than two players?

6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in?
It depends on a number of factors, but generally yes

7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?
If its not built in, there should be room for upgrades at least. I'm much more interested in modular things that you can add to to meet your needs.

8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?
No

9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?
Not really, they already exist and I don't have any of them.

10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?
I would pay a lot for a high quality gun WITHOUT the recoil features
I would pay a lot for a cheaper quality gun WITH the recoil features + other features, whatever they may be (extra buttons, analog sticks on the gun?)
But if there were a quality gun that had expansion slots or something like that, that's what I would go with.
Assuming the tracking and compatibility on the guns were very good.

11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?
Yes, but it depends on what upgrades and their availability. I would buy something like that if I were confident it would still be supported 1-2 years from now.


hope that makes sense

[ark_ader]

There is nothing wrong with the EMS TopGun.

They work just fine and in dual mode.

Perhaps better energies would be spent finding a good manufacturer to output Starwars Yokes, than something that is already out there and working.

Now if Ram Controls have made any Yokes, some clever Chinese bloke could mass produce them. 


EMS Topgun Flight Yokes!   

[TheShanMan]

There is nothing wrong with the EMS TopGun.

How far back do you have to stand?

[aljupy]

How far back do you have to stand?

2 METERS FOR A 20 inch monitor is not a pain.

When I attach a Wide angle lens, I reduce distance by 1 meter.

Regards

[Timstuff]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?
5) How many guns will would you buy?
6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in? 
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?
9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?
10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?
11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?

1) I'd say that $60 is a fair price for a high quality, accessible gun. If it comes without kickback, I'd say $30-40 would be the sweet spot.
2) If we're talking the Slikstik Tornado of light guns, I'd be willing to pay up to $80 for it, assuming it truly was arcade quality construction (including kickback) with PC quality precision / features.
3) If the base gun is reasonably priced ($30-40), I'd be willing to pay extra for an arcade-quality kickback kit.
4) Depending on the base gun price, I'd say between 50-75% of the price of the gun would be fair. If the gun is cheaply priced, the kit can be more expensive. If the gun is more expensive, the kit should be cheaper.
5) Two
6) It depends on the price. If it stays in the $60-80 range, I'd buy it with kickback. If it puts the price more in the $100 range, I'd rather buy the gun for $60 first and get the kickback kit later for $40 (or vise-versa).
7) As stated above, it depends on how much of an impact the kickback has on the price.
No. For me, quality kickback would be one of the major factors in choosing a new light gun model over the ones currently available.
9) No. As stated above, there are already economical gun solutions on the market. I'd prefer a new gun to be a more premium option.
10) I think it's important gun offers good tracking, study construction, good kickback, and a foot pedal for Time Crisis. However, there are some features I think are less desirable, lots of buttons on the gun itself, laser pointers, etc. I'd prefer a nice clean design like an actual arcade gun over one that is covered with buttons for extra functions.
11) I think it would be a good idea to offer some features, like the foot pedal, and possibly the kickback kit separately if it keeps the initial cost accessible.

As for my own ideas, I think that if a kickback kit is avalible, it should involve disassembling at least part of the gun to install it, because that would ensure a clean, arcade-like exterior. A premium light gun IMO should offer something as close to the arcade experience as possible, and having a clearly visible "kickback cartridge slot" would detract from that.

Speaking of the gun's design, it should be clean and durable, and possibly even offered in multiple colors. Aside from the trigger, I think there should only be no more than two additional buttons (only one additional button would be preferable to me). Also, a solid, beefy gun like the Desert Eagle would be a great design for getting the "arcade feel," since many arcade guns have a slightly over-sized feel.



Or, if it's a truly fantasy inspired gun, then perhaps the Samaritan from Hellboy would be good for inspiration. However, while I love a beefy-feeling arcade gun, I wouldn't want things to get too crazy.



And lastly, there's the Nerf Maverick Rev-6 (this one was re-painted by custom action figure guru Jin Saotome).



Also, I think it'd be a good idea to offer a sturdy, arcade-quality foot pedal, possibly one that has mounting options if someone should want to bolt it to their arcade machine. It'd be great if the gun included a plastic pedal, but what would be even better would be is if there was a heavy-duty "arcade-grade" pedal made of metal available, possibly separately at a premium price. If such a pedal were available, it should definitel have the mounting options. I don't know how much it would cost, so I won't pretend to know what would be a reasonable price for it. But it it's expensive, there should be a cheaper, plastic alternative too.

[TheShanMan]

How far back do you have to stand?

2 METERS FOR A 20 inch monitor is not a pain.

When I attach a Wide angle lens, I reduce distance by 1 meter.

Regards

Ugh. 6 1/2 feet? That IS a pain. Doesn't seem very ideal for a cabinet. Maybe if you're playing a console on a TV. So when he says there is nothing wrong with the gun, that is nothing more than opinion based on his (and your) taste. As far as I'm concerned that's a big problem.

[northerngames]

long shot but maybe microsoft will come out with one for the 360 and be tv/pc compatable like the wired/wireless controllers and racing wheels are.

[TPB]

Everyone can "forget about their wishlist" for the Topgun II.

Those dreams shall have to be conveyed to HK-EMS for future models.

Why so ?

Because the Topgun II is about to be released.

Its product design would have been finalised long ago.

It's even been allocated its own product number already (#0718), so the release must be imminent :

http://www.hkems.com/download%20-%20TopGun.htm


HK-EMS have said to watch for a Topgun II announcement on their website by the end of this month :

http://hkems.proboards49.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=post&thread=143&quote=956&page=1


I've asked them whether the "distance problem" (ie, requirement to stand too far away) has been fixed with the Topgun II, given this is the main problem with the current Topgun ...

http://hkems.proboards49.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=post&thread=143&quote=971&page=2

... Fozzy, I've made them aware of your resourceful workarounds.   

[wbassett]

Speaking of the gun's design, it should be clean and durable, and possibly even offered in multiple colors. Aside from the trigger, I think there should only be no more than two additional buttons (only one additional button would be preferable to me). Also, a solid, beefy gun like the Desert Eagle would be a great design for getting the "arcade feel," since many arcade guns have a slightly over-sized feel.

One thing I can say about the TopGun and having more than just two buttons is you can assign the trigger of course, and some games have a secondary fire button for grenades and things like that.  It is also nice, and this works too, is you can assign a button as a coin drop and another one as a game start, and I always assign one as a 'reload' button.  I've configured some games that used the trigger (of course) and then two addition buttons for the game.  So that would be three (trigger and two game buttons) and then if you add a coin drop, game start, and reload, we have six very useable and practical buttons.

I don't think we need a D pad though, but for those that want to play PC games or other types of shooters, I can see why it is added.

[Blanka]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?
80€
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?
120€
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?
don't want that
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?
nothing
5) How many guns will would you buy?
1
6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in? 
no
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?
that's Ok
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?
fine with me
9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?
if not too cheap feel
10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?
no
11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?
no

 Additional:

 -Any other feature request?
Must work over USB like a Wacom tablet and operate the mouse cursor for GUI control possibilities (direct screen mapping) without driver software!
Accuracy comparable to NES Zapper, but working with all screens (plasma, lcd, tube)
No Wii-like motion sensors (accuracy sucks)
I would think about using a webcam with lens to sense the position.
-Ideas/Suggestions?
NES-zapper like space-age shape please!

[Barry Barcrest]

I'm with Shardian on this one.
We've got perfectly good guns.
We just don't have is a way to interface them.

I'm with these guys ...

Me too, this makes the most sense.

[TPB]

HK-EMS have published product pages for the Topgun II on their site.   

Although it's not quite ready to ship, as it's flagged as "coming soon" :


http://www.hkems.com/product/xbox/EMSTopGun2.htm

http://www.hkems.com/product/xbox/TopGunBlazeStand2.htm

http://www.hkems.com/files/EMS%20TopGun%20II%20Manual%20(eng).pdf

http://www.hkems.com/qa_EMSTopGun2.htm

[Timstuff]

It doesn't really look much different from the old Topgun. Oh well, as long as the price is the same and it's the same overall functionality quality, I'd like to have at it for that Sega gun casing mod I was toying with the idea of...

[TPB]

It doesn't really look much different from the old Topgun.

Agreed.

About the only tangible difference is Vista compatibility.  But that's irrelevant to most of us who are running Windows XP.

They've tinkered with the LED sensor bars (which are incompatible with the old ones), but I don't see why they bothered, as if you read their forum, it sounds like the "distance problem" (having to stand too far away) still remains.

Their only suggestion (nothing new) :

" user could mount the LED stands above and below so as to reduce the distance between the gun and the screen. "


From the Q&A page for Topgun II :

Q2) What is the different between EMS TopGun II and EMS TopGun ?

A) Here are the differences:

   i) EMS TopGun II supports Vista (32bit) while EMS TopGun does not.

   ii) LED stands of EMS TopGun II and EMS TopGun are different, and not compatible with each other.

   iii) hardware calibration procedures of EMS TopGun II is different from that of EMS TopGun.

I'd like to have at it for that Sega gun casing mod I was toying with the idea of.

That's a great idea.   

[wbassett]

Does anyone know or can confirm if they changed anything other than the firmware to support Vista and have new drivers (and if they really are new drivers or just reworked Smog drivers?). 

I'm not being negative here, just asking a legit question... is this really a new model or just a new firmware update?  The manual looks pretty much the same as the manual I have for my gun, and the gun looks the same too.

I hope to be using the new drivers this weekend after I swap my computers.  If I have a problem, I can at least swap them back to a working system, but I am hoping it works.

Has anyone seen or used the 'wide angle' lens I saw mentioned on their site/forum that will decrease the distance required (but can reduce accuracy by up to 5%?).

[TPB]

if they changed anything other than the firmware to support Vista and have new drivers

Yes, they've changed the LED sensor bars, which are incompatible with the old ones.

However, it appears the distance problem still remains, so it remains unclear why they tinkered with these bars.

A skeptical person might say they only changed the bars to FORCE those with an existing Topgun, to upgrade to TWO NEW TOPGUN II's if they want to have two player action.

An existing Topgun CANNOT be used in conjuction with a Topgun II, due to the incompatible bars.   

have new drivers

That's not necessarily a good thing.

There's no word from HK-EMS that the new drivers for the Topgun II, won't be as bad (when used with MAME) as the original driver for the existing Topgun.

Maybe there'll be another 2 year wait, before they release a customised MAME driver for the Topgun II.   

Has anyone seen or used the 'wide angle' lens they are supposed to have out now that will decrease the distance required (but can reduce accuracy by up to 5%?).

Really ?

I thought they were just home-made remedies, not an official product offering.

Fozzy's made his own, using the lens from a mobile phone camera.

Here's the response from HK-EMS on their forum, while discussing the Topgun II, when a wide-angled lens was suggested to them :

" using a wider angle lens would affect the accuracy. That's why we are using the current lens. "

[wbassett]

if they changed anything other than the firmware to support Vista and have new drivers

Yes, they've changed the LED sensor bars, which are incompatible with the old ones.

However, it appears the distance problem still remains, so it remains unclear why they tinkered with these bars.

A skeptical person might say they only changed the bars to FORCE those with an existing Topgun, to upgrade to TWO NEW TOPGUN II's if they want to have two player action.

An existing Topgun CANNOT be used in conjuction with a Topgun II, due to the incompatible bars.   

I agree, why did they change them then if it didn't improve the distance you have to stand back.  Wasn't that one of the complaint's people have?

have new drivers

That's not necessarily a good thing.

There's no word from HK-EMS that the new drivers for the Topgun II, won't be as bad (when used with MAME) as the original driver for the existing Topgun.

Maybe there'll be another 2 year wait, before they release a customised MAME driver for the Topgun II.   

I asked because the talk is about the new drivers for the original TopGun.  Is the new TG II the same drivers or something new with new hardware?  It looks like it's more of a Vista compatability improvement than any real change over the original gun.  In other words... other than being able to use Vista (which I don't have) is there any other reason to buy the new gun rather than just use the newest drivers?

Has anyone seen or used the 'wide angle' lens they are supposed to have out now that will decrease the distance required (but can reduce accuracy by up to 5%?).

Really ?

I thought they were just home-made remedies, not an official product offering.

Fozzy's made his own, using the lens from a mobile phone camera.

Here's the response from HK-EMS on their forum, while discussing the Topgun II, when a wide-angled lens was suggested to them :

" using a wider angle lens would affect the accuracy. That's why we are using the current lens. "

The reason I was asking is I looked at their new manual and the gun and manual and gun look exactly the same as what I have now. 

Can you or anyone give any indication of how much of an accuracy improvement there is with the new drivers?  Is it say 5%, 10%, ten fold?  And are these new sensor bars any better during the day?  I don't have any problems at night with lights on, but sometimes during the day my gun flakes out.

[aljupy]

That´s normal.

Direct Sunlight or some IR lighti will interfere with your topgun.
Sometimes it advice you with a "blinking" laser.

Solution is to put your courtains, or be careful with reflecting surfaces.

TOPGUNS with a b/1 mark, have a special driver to see if you have some IR reflecting on surfaces.

Ah!!! Direct sunlight also affects the Guncons, the Actlabs, and every brand for users, even in some arcades

Regards