Ipac2 Wiring Issues, Then Some Buttons Changed in Mame???

[RoninEditor]

I don't even know how to properly title this so here's what my issue is, then I'm home free...

So, on my control panel, I have all of the buttons wired up, as well as two 'hidden' 1P/2P free play buttons.  I left my coin door switches for last, just wanting to test the overall CP.  So, that all worked perfectly, the pre-wired coindoors ready to be later connected to their micoswitches.   

I originally tried to wire the 'free play' buttons together into the usual 1P Coin/2P Coin on the Ipac2; 1P freeplay with 1P physical coin slot, into the same Ipac terminal.  Okay, so then I connected up the microswitches on the door, then restarted.  The Ipac went numb, no light.  I pull the PS2 cord then put it back in... it flashed a couple times then still nothing.  Obviously, at that point, the variable was the coin door microswitches.  I tried a couple restarts then the coin door microswitches "took over" and my freeplay ones went useless, basically, flip-flopping what was going on before... and I didn't move a single wire or redo anything into the Ipac. 

With me so far?

So then today I divided up the wires that were combined, going into the 1P coin and 2P coin, each getting their own terminal... so two possible credit microswitches for 1P's credit (the coin door and the side button) and the same for 2P.  So, I go into Mame today and now none of them work for a credit!! 

Odd, right? 

Everything matches up in WinPac (sp?) and I used the CP to 'type' and everything reads perfectly, ya know, like when putting in a coin, "5" shows up in a document.  When I press my freeplay on the side, the letter pops up.  And back in Mame, the coin slot actually read for a game I tested, but not for the rest.

Another weird thing is that my shifted buttons don't seem to read any more either, even though they're still mapped like I'd always had them. 

I had to get to work (where I now, on lunch break) but I wanted to TAB through a pass-through keyboard, and see what defaults are now set for the credits, because everything else works fine. 

But my overall question is, "how" does/did this happen?  And, has anyone else seen something like this?  I'm concerned about the Shifted buttons and getting these credits to read.

Always something when you think you're done! haha 

[Turnarcades]

Be careful of the voltage of your coin mech. When using Ultimarc's coin mech, you have to use a zener diode to change the coin signal down from the PC-powered 12v to 5v to prevent surges damaging the circuit board. If your coin mech is more than 5.5v you may have damaged the ipac.

[RoninEditor]

Oh, shiiiiioooooottt... really?  I had no idea about this! 

I have a Happ Over/Under Coindoor to which I only have the microswitches wired... but that's what you mean, right?  I have the lights wired through my PC's power, they are 12v LEDs.

God, I hope I didn't fry anything... it scares me because this is the only mention I've even seen about this.  Thanks for the heads up!

[Ginsu Victim]

I don't think you fried anything.

Since you say your buttons work outside of MAME, try setting them back up in MAME. If they work everywhere else, then MAME's the problem.

[Arshad]

So what is the proper way to hook something like this up?  Drive the coin mech with 5v with the microswitches to the iPac and a separate 12v for the lights only?

Right now my coin mech and lights are all connected together, but I'm assuming I need to desolder all of it and redo it in the manner above. (The current wiring is in bad shape so I was going to replace the wiring anyways...)

[um3k]

This is how I have it and everything works as expected.   Don't mix the wiring for Lights (12V) with the coin mechs.

[mrclean]

 
  And, has anyone else seen something like this?  I'm concerned about the Shifted buttons and getting these credits to read.

Always something when you think you're done! haha 

Just happened to me.. i have my mini-pac hooked up with an ide cable, and the unused ones that ive never used before ended up being my remaining buttons many were wrong but luckily i figured it out, used the winipac / ultimarc "test" mode to test and then swap literally all 20 buttons etc. Why did this happen ?    no idea.. but i fixed it 

[Turnarcades]

When I was first looking at coin doors it looked simple, but most people forget they are designed for genuine arcade cabinets, which are a whole different kettle of fish. They are designed for optimum power usage and not for economy like PC/MAME cab components. It wasn't til I checked the Ultimarc documentation I started google-ing for answers and realised there was a lot of info on coin mechs, but not many about the problems of electronic differences between mechs and interfaces. Don't know if that's the general way with all interfaces as I imagine most people run them on 12v without trouble. However, one small surge might be enough to tip the voltage high enough to damage the PCB.

[RoninEditor]

I don't think you fried anything.

Since you say your buttons work outside of MAME, try setting them back up in MAME. If they work everywhere else, then MAME's the problem.

(Sorry I've neglected my thread, been out of town, still am actually, just got online...)

I figure with these buttons working outside of Mame, that hopefully everything will be good... I still haven't TAB'ed in to recheck/reassign things... I'm crossing my fingers that this will work, especially since my in-laws are in town and they wanna check this out, haha.  Hopefully it's not like, "Wow, my daughter's husband is a failure." haha

I'll touch base and let you guys know what's going on.  And then, yeah, the Shifted buttons seem so odd.  I'll update that info when I get home.

Thanks again for everyone's weighing in, always appreciated.

[RoninEditor]

Okay, so here's what I'm at with this... totally nuts...

So I unplugged the wires on the microswitches on the coindoors (the ground and the positives) and the Ipac2 seems to be working fine again, shift keys, everything. 

As a refresher, I originally have one side of my CP's buttons' ground going into one ground terminal on the Ipac, and the other side's grounds going into the Ipac's other ground terminal, with the coindoor's ground twisted in with that. 

While the coindoors are hooked up this way, the Ipac REEEEEEALLY doesn't like it.  I'm pretty sure it's a ground issue at this point because I then separated the coin door's ground and did a separate grounding block for it.  So, going into the Ipac's left and right ground are the left and right sides of my CP's buttons and everything worked perfectly... the coin door's ground into the little Radio Shack block. 

Everything works great... except for the coin door's 'trigger'.  In or out of Mame, nothing happens when I put a coin in... and if I use a keyboard pass through, pressing "5" or "6" works for a credit, as well as my free play credit. 

So it seems that the main issue is getting the microswitches working with Mame and the Ipac.  I don't know what to do at this point because I'm horrible with electrical stuff... I'm assuming the ground has to be used on the Ipac to complete the circuit for the coin door?  But if I put it on, it seems to make it defunct.

Any ideas with this..? 

[Arcades R Fun]

I'm not the best on these boards for this kind of help but here's my experience from past work.

When I first started out wiring coin doors I kept having issues with the coin door microswitchs.
The panel top credit buttons would not work while the coin door buttons were wired.
Turns out the middle terminal of coin door microswitches hold the ground not the outer terminal. After this change the credit buttons on the panel top and the coin door buttons worked.

Maybe this will help you or I'm just rambling because it's time to get some shut eye.
Good Luck,
Jack

[RoninEditor]

This is how I have it and everything works as expected.   Don't mix the wiring for Lights (12V) with the coin mechs.

Thanks for the replies.  I looked closer at the diagram and didn't catch (the first time) that you had the positive plug on the coin door microswitch differently than the usual set-ups.  Everything else I have is hooked up exactly like this... this is the only thing I haven't tried, which is also along the lines of the above post as well (the reversed plugs). 

Alright fellas... keeping my fingers crossed for when I get home.

[RoninEditor]

This is how I have it and everything works as expected.   Don't mix the wiring for Lights (12V) with the coin mechs.

Thanks for the replies.  I looked closer at the diagram and didn't catch (the first time) that you had the positive plug on the coin door microswitch differently than the usual set-ups.  Everything else I have is hooked up exactly like this... this is the only thing I haven't tried, which is also along the lines of the above post as well (the reversed plugs). 

Alright fellas... keeping my fingers crossed for when I get home.

Alright, so that's not working.

I'm gonna mess with some things, but can I ask for sure, to eliminate this variable... can I run the ground, from the coin doors, to a grounding block, and not the Ipac?  Or does it have to be grounded to the Ipac?

[kayoteq]

I've not done one of these, but it sounds like you might be connecting two of the same line together;
Coin>Coin or Ground>Ground instead of Coin Wire>Ground


Back up, take notes (sure you already have) and disconnect what wires you _know_ are related to your coin switch.
If it switches by going to ground, test that by grounding it and seeing if the MAME sees it.  Then test if your switch is providing a ground
when active.

If you say there's two grounds, try the 'other' ground if a direct wire-wire test doesn't do the trick.

 hook up one at a time; get the coin switch working, _then_ your free credit switch. Just like you're starting over, no assumptions
of what you did before wiring-wise. Except you have the handy wires to use.

Now I've thoroughly confused the issue. Sorry. Again, don't have an i-Pac so I don't know how their volts work

[RoninEditor]

Kayo... I'm gonna go through your steps this weekend, thanks for the heads up on that!

I'm going to attach a diagram of what I've tried and what hasn't worked.  I didn't draw it, but out of desperation, I tried reversing the connections on the door's microswitches, which didn't work.  There are the usual buttons wired, which I didn't draw, to avoid confusion.  And the black wires at the top, those are my CP's buttons' ground wires.  I split the CP in two, left and right sides.

I tried a button to the 1UP terminal and it still works, so the terminal is still working great.

Today, I tried connecting just one microswitch; one wire going to the 1UP terminal, the other to the ground... that didn't work, the Ipac didn't light up... but it did when I unhooked the ground.

So this made me think there's some major issue with the ground on the door's microswitch.  I don't know what else to do other than trying heavier gauge wire.  Originally, I bought the wiring kit from Divemaster, which is 22 gauge... it works perfectly for the other buttons.  I'm wondering if 18 gauge will make any difference...? 

After this next thing, I think I'm gonna have to try Andy directly because I don't know what else to do.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Provided Happ hasn't changed coin switches, you can use your wiring #1, but move the coin door wires to the points indicated in the pic below.

Those are the Normally OPEN (NO) contacts on those switches.

To be absolutely sure, you can slap the leads from a continuity meter onto the two tabs you used.
It should beep when the lever is not pressed, and stop when it is.
The ones I marked should NOT beep unless the lever is pressed.

Basically your Ipac is currently seeing those buttons as stuck down because the terminals are grounded at startup.

[RoninEditor]

I haven't checked this thread in a bit and sure enough, you're correct.  Andy just told me the same thing, with Happ's switches being opposite of the usual ones... grrrrr.  But hey, it now works!!!!! 

I'll attach my wiring picture which is the same as yours though.

[studmuff]

I had to send a thank you to everyone in this thread.  I wired my coin door to my keywiz with no problems.  Thank You.