My 1st Arcade: UltraStik 360 vs. (Mag-Stik Plus + i-pac VE) vs. dedicated 4-way?

[JC]

Hi,

I’m in the process of designing the control panel for my first arcade machine. I’ve wanted to build one for quite a very long time so I’m very excited to finally be doing this.

At this point in my planning, I need to decide which type of Joystick to use. I’m looking to play a variety of games on this MAME arcade. My favorites include the Street Fighter series, Ms. Pac Man, Donkey Kong… I also enjoy playing shoot’em ups like Raiden. So I’m thinking I need both 8-way and 4-way joysticks. I’m going for a simple control panel design, so rather than using two 8 ways and one/two 4-way joysticks, I’m opting for two 4/8 way joysticks. I am looking at either two U360, or two Mag-Stik Plus + i-pac VE.

Housed on the control panel will be:
•   Two 4/8/x way joysticks
•   6 “action” buttons per player
•   1P, 2P Coin buttons
•   1P, 2P Start buttons
•   List, Exit buttons.
•   (possibly) 1P, 2P Pause buttons
•   (possibly) two pinball buttons
•   No trackball yet, but will hopefully implement in a year or two (seems too expensive)

I haven’t read that many reviews of the Mag-Stik, and the ones that are out there are a few years old now. It does seem to be a somewhat older product in the Ultramarc lineup. What I keep seeing mentioned is the joystick’s shorter throw. I grew up in Europe so the short throw on the Mag-Stiks would not bug me (although I think I might like a bit more throw). I really like the idea of having a “true”, physically restricted 4/8 way joystick, but I’m wondering if it won’t be a chore to keep switching back and forth between the two different modes.

I keep reading rave reviews of the U360. It seems very configurable and it sounds like it has an awesome “feel” to it, but I’m wondering if it would be good for my cabinet. My understanding of it is that it does not require an encoder, which makes it very easy to install and configure. However it seems to be limited to 8 physical buttons per joystick, which means I would need an encoder for the rest of the buttons anyway. Either that, or use virtual buttons for the 1P/2P Start buttons. My other concern with the U360 is that it does not physically restrict movement to 4-way or 8-way. I could buy two 4-8 way restrictor plates for 2x$14, but in 4-way mode, the diagonals would not be physically restricted. I’m thinking this might be a big deal, but I haven’t tried the sticks so it’s hard to gauge.

The CP will be blue-themed, so blue joysticks would be best. It looks like the Mag-Stik comes in blue, but not the U360. I’d have to spend an extra 2x$8 and settle for a ball-top (I prefer bat style joysticks).

So cost-wise, I’m looking at 2x ($59+$14+$8) = $162 for two blue 4/8 U360s, and $35 + 2x$33 = $101 for two blue 4/8 Mag-Stiks. As you can see the difference in price is substantial.

I guess my third option would be two dedicated 8-ways and another dedicated 4-way. I could do two blue Supers and a 4 way to an i-pac4, which would cost about the same as the Mag-Stik option. In that case I would be giving up the option for two players to have “true” 4-way simultaneously. How important would you consider this for a MAME cabinet?

Thanks for reading this far. At this point I’m just brainstorming based on everything I’ve read these past few weeks -- which is an unbelievable amount of material – and I’m really looking for feedback from players who have used one or more of these joysticks. What do you recommend? I appreciate any advice or opinion you can give to help me with this pretty impactful decision.

Cheers,
JC

[fatfingers]

That later versions of U360 firmware support a "shift" feature that will allow more than 8 buttons per joystick -- I'm not sure what the maximum number supported is.

I think you already identified the decisions you have to make:

shorter throw versus longer throw
physically restricted versus digitally restricted
harder to change from 4 to 8 way versus easier to change from 4 to 8 to diagonal to whatever way


In my mind the answer is simple -- get the U360s, but that's just me and my preferences.  I did have the Magstick Plusses before the U360s and in my mind there is just no comparison...everything is more enjoyable to play with the U360s.

Good luck.

[Zobeid]

I keep reading rave reviews of the U360. It seems very configurable and it sounds like it has an awesome “feel” to it, but I’m wondering if it would be good for my cabinet. My understanding of it is that it does not require an encoder, which makes it very easy to install and configure. However it seems to be limited to 8 physical buttons per joystick, which means I would need an encoder for the rest of the buttons anyway.

Or a cheap keyboard hack. . .  If you let the U360 handle the actual game buttons, then any old crummy encoder can handle everything else.

Or you can do what I did:  Design a cabinet that doesn't use more than 16 buttons (with two sticks).   

My other concern with the U360 is that it does not physically restrict movement to 4-way or 8-way. I could buy two 4-8 way restrictor plates for 2x$14, but in 4-way mode, the diagonals would not be physically restricted. I’m thinking this might be a big deal, but I haven’t tried the sticks so it’s hard to gauge.

My suggestion. . .  Don't worry about crossing this bridge until you come to it.  You may find you like the U360s okay without a restrictor.  And if not. . .  You can get an octagon restrictor that works well for both 4-way and 8-way games.  I'm planning to give those a try myself.

Oh, and if you wanted a true short-throw 4/8 restricted, easily switchable stick. . .   Don't overlook the Omnistik Prodigy.  I don't know why so many people pass over them, maybe it's the mounting plate that scares them away?   

[Ginsu Victim]

don't know why so many people pass over them, maybe it's the mounting plate that scares them away?   I dunno!

The mounting plate is exactly what I didn't like about it.

I installed Happ Universals, but I really don't like them. I placed an order Friday for 2 x Ultrastik 360s (plus hard springs, restrictors, and one encoder cable) and I'm hoping these will give all the configurability I need. For $177 they'd better!

[nukedawg]

IMO go with the U360's. I bought 2 with restrictor plates and spring upgrades. I tried them stock and finally decided on using the round restrictor to reduce the throw (was way too much in my opinion) and never even tried the newer springs. I found that even though I can't feel the corners or hear clickety clicks, these joysticks are one of the best investments I have made for my cab! My score has improved in many games since I started using the u360's. They emulate so many different kinds of controls and with the Mala map plugin and Mame's new mapping feature, that is what makes them one of the best! Also, even if you are going with a blue theme, just get the u360 with the black bat handle, it shouldn't look too bad along side the blue theme of the cab.

...if they only made a top fire/rotary model u360....I would be all over that!

[Ginsu Victim]

Removed (I was wrong)

[Fozzy The Bear]

You also want to look at more pinball buttons if you're having them at all......

5 is the minimum.

Two Flippers + Two Nudge Buttons (also can be used for table features on some tables) + Ball Launch Button  + optional nudge up button (hence 5 or 6 buttons) Otherwise many tables will be unplayable.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Ummon]

So when connecting buttons, the mapping feature is still functional?

[pincky]

My Control Panel setup

 a Mag-stik plus for my 8 way/ 4 way games Player 1

U360 for player 2

[JC]

Thanks everyone for your advice, I *really* appreciate your replies. My feelings have changed somewhat since my original post.

First, I'm dropping the Mag-Stik option. I think it will be too much of a pain to switch back and forth every time I go from a 4-way to 8-way game, and it might be confusing for my wife and visitors as well. All in all, this option does not offer much flexibility over two 8-way Happ Supers and one 4-way Happ Super. I've also realized that I would only need an IPAC-2 to drive those 3 joysticks, bringing down the cost of that other option. I'm looking at ~$70 for the three Supers vs $120-160 for the two U360s.

So at this point I'm trying to determine if two U360's are worth twice as much $$$ as three Happ Supers. From what I have been reading it seems that they are worth the cost, and that the added flexibility makes up for the lack of a physical 4/8-way restriction.

After reading everything I can about those joysticks, I still have two questions:

- What are my options if I want to hook up an additional 6-8 buttons on top of the 2 x 8 already supported by the joysticks? Those would be for an Admin/Media panel. I saw someone recommend a $20 Keywiz in another thread. Is this a good option or would you recommend something else in that price range?

- How well does the U360 work with console emulators? Being able to play N64/DC games well would be a very big draw for me, and the U360 seems like a good option thanks to its analog mode. Would you recommend I keep the default throw without restrictor plate if I plan on playing those games? Would the default throw hamper the playability of games like SF2 or Ms. PacMan? Or would a shorter throw (w/ round restrictor plate) still work well for analog console games?

Thanks again for your time. I look forward to your replies!

Cheers,
JC

[Zobeid]

- What are my options if I want to hook up an additional 6-8 buttons on top of the 2 x 8 already supported by the joysticks?

I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong about this, but. . .   It seems that a bit of clever wiring with the U360's shift function should be able to get you 14 buttons per stick.

In other words:  Instead of using button 8 as a button by itself, just run leads 8 and 1 to your 8th button, leads 8 and 2 to your 9th button, 8 and 3 to your 10th button, etc.

You wouldn't be able to use buttons from the first and second set at the same time.  But if buttons 1-7 were game buttons and 8-14 were admin and media buttons, or some similar arrangement, then in practice they would never conflict.

[u_rebelscum]

- What are my options if I want to hook up an additional 6-8 buttons on top of the 2 x 8 already supported by the joysticks? Those would be for an Admin/Media panel. I saw someone recommend a $20 Keywiz in another thread. Is this a good option or would you recommend something else in that price range?

Besides what Zobeid said, a keywiz, gpwiz, or ipac2 are valid options.  The keywiz & ipac2 are better for non-mame keyboard only apps, though, which might concern you.

- How well does the U360 work with console emulators? ...
Would you recommend I keep the default throw without restrictor plate if I plan on playing those games?
Would the default throw hamper the playability of games like SF2 or Ms. PacMan?
Or would a shorter throw (w/ round restrictor plate) still work well for analog console games?

-Great,
-default throw for arcade analog, but it's not needed for console analog since they have the micro thumb sticks,
-default throw is too long and soft IMO for SF2, pacman or other arcade digital joystick games (I suggest circle or octogon restrictor depending on you preference on feel and games),
-(mostly a repeat) analog console games should be fine with restrictor plates since they were designed for analog thumb sticks.

[Stub]

$20 Keywiz, you wont regret it. You could use the shift feature every time you need to hit player 1, but you will have to tell people what two buttons it is every time. I am a fan of having the buttons on the panel and clearly labeled.