Crazy Wiimote control ideas... anyone got info?

[JKJudgeX]

Hey I was looking at some of the posts here regarding using the Wiimote as a light gun.  The game "Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles" does this and proves that on the Wii, it's a very, very valid shooting solution...

However, has anyone had any luck porting that over to MAME?  I use GlovePIE to use my Wii Guitar Hero guitar on the PC and it works wonders, so, this had me thinking "Maybe a light gun isn't such a bad idea" ... maybe get a battery powered IR Bar and mount it upside down from the cabinet overhang and play standing a few feet back?


The other crazy idea I had came about as I was playing Cruisin' USA and thinking about installing a steering wheel, and then realized that i am about to purchase Mario Kart for the Wii.  Which, just so happens, uses a Wiimote for a steering wheel.  Has anyone had any luck or mentioned that kind of usage for the WiiMote on the PC?  I know it may seem tacky, but, a wireless light gun/Steering wheel add-on for my arcade machine would keep down clutter a whole lot.

Could it also be used in place of a trackball?  I'm thinking it probably can with the appropriate glovepie/wiinmote scripts.

If I could knock out Trackballs, Lightguns, and Steering Wheels with a single device and intelligently implemented scripts, my arcade cabinet would really just need P1 and P2 setups, holsters for 4 additional gamepads (2 traditional style, ergonomic Saitek P220's, and 2 Xbox/PS2 style controllers for other emulators), and the controllers that go with them to allow me to access pretty much every single game...

Anyway, I just wanted to post my thoughts here in hopes of maybe someone throwing me a link or telling me why it's a good/bad idea, or telling me of their own success/horror stories to reduce my own development time .

Thanks!

[Ginsu Victim]

Other than the Wii lightgun already having several other topics this could've went in....why the hell would you ever replace a trackball with a Wiimote?!?

[JKJudgeX]

Because, I also spoke about using the Wiimote as a steering wheel.  Steering Wheel, Light Gun, and Trackball (classic controller, too, maybe?) are ideas beyond simply a "light gun", and there are multiple ways that a trackball wii control could possibly be implemented (using gyro controls, or, using mouse-pointer controls to replicate mouse-trackball in MAME for instance, which I wanted to discuss...)

Now, to address your question... as to WHY I would want to replace a trackball this way?
1) Space savings... without need for a trackball on my panel, I have more clean open uncluttered panelspace.
2) Wireless... I can sit back from my arcade machine and play centipede or arkanoid perhaps, in a more comfortable position if I am tired of standing/sitting directly in front of the machine.
3) Reconfigurability... a trackball is always just a trackball, for use in only select applications.  I can bring over my guitar hero III guitar and plug it into my wiimote and play Guitar Zero on my arcade screen.  I can also take advantages of many other peripherals that nintendo may bring out, and, if I get tired of it, I can always just retire it to playing games over on the Wii. 
4) Money savings... for $50 I can have a trackball, or, possibly a device that serves as all 3, trackball, lightgun, wheel (Probably well over $100 if used independently).
5) Personal preference.  I've never been a big fan of trackballs, honestly.  I even prefer playing with a mouse in games DESIGNED for a trackball.

[Ginsu Victim]

Try playing the trackball version of Track and Field with a wiimote....or Golden Tee.

[JKJudgeX]

With clever glovepie scripting, I don't think it would be impossible to do a fun Golden Tee, I don't know about the track and field game though, it might have to go into the "wow, that specifically needs a trackball, why?" bin.

Can't very well play guitar zero or T2 the arcade game with a trackball, though can we?

[Ginsu Victim]

If you're playing classic trackball games on an arcade cabinet with a wiimote, why even have a cabinet?

[ahofle]

Marble Madness would also suck with a wiimote.   

In case you aren't familiar with them, the LCD Top Guns work on the same basic principal as the wiimotes (the IR part of them anyway).  Probably the biggest issue is the minimum distance required from the user to the screen.  This is of course not a problem with a console where you typically sit on the couch a good deal away from the screen.  However, on an arcade cabinet where you usually stand a foot or two away from the screen, it's not so ideal.  My Wiimote starts to lose its accuracy when getting within a 4-5 feet of the screen.  It might work well if you had a showcase style cabinet with a large screen though.

I think the accelerometer aspects of the wiimote for driving games are very interesting however, at least for 270 degree wheel games.  I can't imagine they would work for 360 degree wheel games like pole position or super sprint though where you typically spin the wheel hard.

[Ginsu Victim]

Well, for the distance of the wiimote, you could always build your own sensor bar with the IR leds closer together.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I agree with Ginsu.  Why even bother building a cabinet?  If you are still set on doing that you might as well put a TV in there and an actual Wii if you want stuff ported over.  And the Wii game will be super authentic!  A lot easier too.   

Seriously though, I understand where you are trying to go with this, but an arcade is an arcade.  It's not the same experience if you start substituting the retro controls.

If you really want to save room, build a smaller cabinet, such as a cocktail unit of even a bartop.  Or if you are set on a full size arcade, have you though about interchangeable control panels?

~ DeLuSioNaL

[Ginsu Victim]

Thank you. I was wondering when someone else would show up and back me on this.

[JKJudgeX]

It's not a matter of building the arcade cabinet.

The cabinet is built.  It's sitting in my media room being enjoyed on a nightly basis since Friday night.

It's a matter of enabling more games without adding/buying/installing more and more controls.

The interface allows me to choose from my MAME collection, genesis collection, SNES collection, etc etc etc. 

Now, instead of building in a connection for a light gun, and adding a big funky steering wheel, and hollowing out a hole to stick a trackball in, if I could just run a glovepie script, grab a wiimote, and switch between T2 the arcade game, Virtua Cop, Arkanoid, and Outrun... I'd save myself a whole lot of work, time, and money, wouldn't I?

Classic arcade is cool.  I dominated top-scores in the Charleston/Huntington area (and the Galaga machine at Cedar Point on multiple occasions) for about 20 years of my life.  Yes, I like the feedback and feel of the "Operation Wolf" gun... very nostalgic, but, building it myself?  I think I'd like to just try with a Wiimote.  I'll never forget the smooth operation of that Super Sprint Wheel, but, if I could have an untethered WiiMote wheel, the same one I've played driving games on my Wii with, I'd be satisfied.

Nothing wrong with updating controls...  and of course, honestly, if I had a million bucks or a bunch of spare time I'd build interchangeable panels and or a gigantic master control panel of infinite badassery, complete with voice activated drop-down periscope control for that cool submarine game and overhead secondary Dragon's Lair display....but, i'm trying to keep this project within a certain realm of reason... (until I become a billionaire, at which point you guys are all invited to my multiplex free arcade. )

[Ginsu Victim]

I'd save myself a whole lot of work, time, and money, wouldn't I?

With that type of outlook on this hobby, you really shouldn't get into this.

[NickG]

A lot of these games might be difficult to set up for good playability with the Wiimote and a Glovepie script. Have you looked into utilizing a presentation mouse?  not that it would be any better, I guess...

[JKJudgeX]

I'd save myself a whole lot of work, time, and money, wouldn't I?

With that type of outlook on this hobby, you really shouldn't get into this.

No offense but that's terrible advice.  I'm already into this hobby and have been a retrogamer for years.  You build your cabinet with all of your old school, expensive, "authentic" Happ controls, I'll build my more new-age cabinet my way (using whatever new technologies I choose to throw in, such as wiimotes), and we'll both be happier. 

Not considering your budget and time investment in a project like this?  That's far worse than being reasonable about it.

Thanks for your input though.

[Ginsu Victim]

Yep....you still rub me the wrong way....
It's your cabinet and you can do as you please....I just think your attitude toward what the rest of us are doing stinks.

[crummy]

Yep....you still rub me the wrong way....
It's your cabinet and you can do as you please....I just think your attitude toward what the rest of us are doing stinks.

His attitude? His attitude was enthusiastically talking about a new control scheme. You started offering criticism on his choices, and then started threadshitting.

[Ginsu Victim]

No, but comments like this I definitely feel the need to ---Cleveland steamer--- on.

You build your cabinet with all of your old school, expensive, "authentic" Happ controls, I'll build my more new-age cabinet my way

I don't know about you, but I hear a very condescending tone in there...

[JKJudgeX]

"With that type of outlook on this hobby, you really shouldn't get into this."

... and I'm condescending for telling you to build your cabinet your way while I build mine my way?  Yeah, okay.

You're the guy telling people what they're allowed to do with their own arcade cabinets and trying to dictate who and what is allowed in this hobby, not me.

I'm just here trying to gather up knowledgeable replies about my topic, and pitch in help in the few places that I can.  I'm CERTAINLY not here to argue about arcade authenticity, the nature of this "hobby", or who is more condescending...

So, without further digression, will you please stop derailing my thread now? 

Either let it age into oblivion or be filled with on-topic posts, but please, enough with the hijack.

[Ginsu Victim]

All I meant was if you're looking to save work, time, and money, you're in for a surprise. At that time, I didn't know you even had a cabinet yet.
My point was that you'll always spend more money on it then you wanted to, you'll spend every spare moment working on your cabinet, and for some, it's never done.
It was actually a sarcastic post that a lot of people would identify with.
I don't care what you do with your cabinet. I DO care, however, when you crap on the way we do things.

[ChadTower]

Lighten up on this guy.  Seems like he has a reasonably valid proposal here.  I didn't see him crap on anything.

I don't think the Wiimote has fine enough control to be a good replacement for hardwired analog controls like a trackball or steering wheel.  It's just not sensitive enough.  Maybe as a light gun since that is using the pointer rather than the accelerometers but definitely not the others.

[HaRuMaN]

Marble Madness would also suck with a wiimote.   

Have you ever played Marble Mania on the Wii?  It's quite fun, and addicting, and maddening all at the same time...   

[Ginsu Victim]

I don't think the Wiimote has fine enough control to be a good replacement for hardwired analog controls like a trackball or steering wheel.  It's just not sensitive enough.  Maybe as a light gun since that is using the pointer rather than the accelerometers but definitely not the others.

As a light gun, it's great. I'd hack one to use as a light gun. It's just whole trackball/steering wheel thing. I couldn't see playing Centipede, Golden Tee, or Outrun with a wiimote. I play Centipede with the joystick, since I don't have a trackball, and it works, but you don't get the same feeling.

[ChadTower]

You don't get the same control, either, unless it's a true 360 analog stick.

[Ginsu Victim]

I didn't say it was perfect. Just servicable compared to not being able to play (like Crystal Castles....man I need a trackball).

[ChadTower]

When the OP suggested doing something other than original you asked him why he would even bother.  Why did you bother doing it without the trackball if that is a bad approach?  See how that works?

[Ginsu Victim]

I don't bother playing anything (centipede aside) that uses a trackball or steering wheel because I don't have what I need.
My CP doesn't have room for a trackball or I'd have one.

[JKJudgeX]

"I don't bother playing anything (centipede aside) that uses a trackball or steering wheel because I don't have what I need.
My CP doesn't have room for a trackball or I'd have one."

Which is why I proposed using the Wiimote, something which, sadly, I haven't had a few spare hours to tinker with, but will most certainly try and report my results.

As far as for steering wheels... it works decently well on the Wii itself for driving games...  I agree that it's not going to be AS GOOD as a hardware steering wheel built into the system, but, with practice, it may be a valid, space, money, and time-saving alternative.  An Iron-Man Off-Road wheel isn't going to be as effective at playing all other driving games besides Off-Road, just like a super-sprint wheel isn't going to be the best for playing Outrun...  Similarly, while a WiiMote is probably the best thing to play Wii's Mario Kart with, it may also enjoy cross-compatible acceptability with some arcade games, once properly configured.

I'm not proposing anything unholy.  The lightgun thing has been tinkered with to mixed results.  The Wiimote + classic controller makes for a VERY GOOD gamepad for PC games.  it's a versatile multi-input tool that, like the swiss army knife, saves space and has many applications, but cannot cut a steak quite as well as some other tools.  Neither can a Katana be so easily used to trim nose-hairs.

Apparently what happened is I offended someone by accident with my ideas... maybe because they themselves do not have/like/or want a wiimote, and some kind of emotional response was issued. 

The "Dream" here, is to play 90% of the games that I play with the console panel, joystick and buttons, classic arcade style but then, we load up Lethal Enforcers and whip out the Wiimotes, step back, and keep on playing... we finish that, select a new game, keep the wiimote out for some driving, and finally, if we want to play 4 player Captain America and the Avengers, 2 of us man 1P and 2P, while the other two suffice with a classic controller plugged into the wii-motes.  End result:  Classic 2 stick and 20 button arcade panel top for classic arcade feel while hanging on to the ability to emulate and explore other arcade and console classics via the Wiimotes.  Saved money, space, time, etc.

Bottom Line:
Don't knock it before you try it.  Simple Bluetooth device + IR + a multi-functional expansion port that can completely knock out the need for using extra USB ports for controllers, is wireless... etc... it's an enabler that I would argue can add functionality to ANY arcade machine even WITHOUT using it as a wheel/trackball.  (considering they are $40, rechargeable, and fully programmable, and can freely jump between your wii and your arcade machine... uhhh... yeah)

[Ginsu Victim]

I hope the Wiimote works out great for you and would love to see the fruits of labor posted on here.
No hard feelings. (I had a bug up my butt.....sorry man)

[JKJudgeX]

It's all good, we're all passionate about arcade machines, and what I'm talking about is pretty much a form of evil computer sorcery in a sense...

I will definitely keep everyone posted with what I've done, but I'm having little luck getting any help with making a new control panel to house all these nifty buttons I need/want...

I really dunno where to go, how to drill appropriate holes... what to make it out of, if there are any good designs I can borrow, things like that ,so, that's holding up a little bit of my development.  Once I get that knocked out and the thing is playable (trying to get it playable first, because everyone's excited to play it without having to use a gamepad all the time)... I'll be able to get the wiimote in use (I've used it for guitar zero and for playing around with other things, but nothing this serious yet.

[Ginsu Victim]

Are you looking to build a new control panel, or add to the existing panel?
(Edit: Nevermind...found the answer in another topic)

[JKJudgeX]

Two interesting videos I found while researching another thread:
  (this is how you set it up, you only see him use it for like a second)


And the crazy interesting one (not really arcade cabinet related, but, very neat idea for how to use it)
http://www.dailymotion.com/cluster/tech/tag/Wii/video/x3vsnt_minority-report-interface-by-wiimot_tech

Also found one about hacking it with a mouse that was kinda neat... anyway... I'll see what I can rig up soon

[JKJudgeX]

Not a whole lot of "info" about this, really, but, a good link for glovepie scripts... I *almost* got my wiimote working as a lightgun... i need to work the kinks out of it... it's a MAME-specific problem, I'm pretty sure, as it works pretty much as a perfect remote control mouse with the cheap-O setup I've made with a single LED that I scrapped out of an old remote.

http://www.wiili.org/forum/glovepie-wii-mote-scripts-t360-s15.html

There are scripts there for lightgun via controller use (they apparently work well for some, not as well for others)... and some scripts for Mario-Kart like driving controls (tilting wiimote like a wheel)...  and tons more stuff.

If anyone has any other info, I would LOVE to see it.

Good luck!

[jace055]

I'll stand behind you.  This is a good idea.

I haven't been around this forum in a while but I came back after I saw a couple of "you tube" videos of the dual wiimotes as light guns and wondered if it was main stream among the byoac-ers.  I have been looking through the forums for a few days to find some answers. 

So far the only input I can give you is there is only one person on ebay selling a light bar for the wiimote that plugs directly into a wall outlet for power (I have NO desire to change batteries ever, if I can avoid it).  I will be looking to this thread for your progress.  Once I start adding lightguns to my cabinet in a few weeks I can help troubleshoot with you.  Good luck till.

[JKJudgeX]

Hehe, thanks for the input, but, it's relatively easy to build your own IR setup .  I can show you a quick and dirty way...   

Note that this is only for a "test" setup, as I haven't included an off switch or anything like that.  I AM NOT at all good with electronics, and my methods are dirty and would probably be frowned on by anyone who even remotely understands a circuit board.  Don't do anything I say unless you understand it's at your own risk.

All you need:
JKJudgeX's build your own WiiMote 1 IR LED Sensor Bar
1)  Old remote control you don't use anymore.
2)  Some extra wiring and connectors that you aren't using (I just used some of the wire and connectors male and female from where I was wiring my panel.
3)  3V worth of batteries (2 AAA batteries will do nicely, though I don't know if this will work with rechargeables)
4) Some kind of makeshift housing for the batteries(I just broke the back of my remote off and use it to hold the batteries.
5) Duct tape, or a place/makeshift housing to mount your LED.
6) (Optional) Male and Female .187in disconnects (like used on your microswitches in your cab, only I had male and female ones since that was how they were sold at my local radio shack)

Steps:
1) Get that remote, and pry it open.  Take the IR LED (maybe even 2) out of the front of it by wiggling them back and forth as close to the circuit board as you can until they snap off.  Put these aside.
2) Remove everything from the remote that is not the battery housing.  If you want a 2 battery setup like mine, just remove everything until you have a chunk of plastic with the metal spring at one end and the metal plate at the other end inside the battery housing.
3) Make sure 2 AAA's (or whatever batteries you are getting your 3V from) fit snugly, pinned in between the connectors in the back of the remote.
4) Cut yourself 2 lengths of wire, as long as you might think is convenient to have your LED away from the batteries.  I used 2 8 inch lengths.
5) Strip off a little bit from both ends of both wires (quarter inch?).
6) Tape/glue/solder/rig/lay an end to the positive end of the batteries (the button side) and do the same with the other wire from the negative (flat side)
Checkpoint:  You should have the back of a remote opened up with 2 wires coming from it, one from each end of the battery compartment.  The other ends of the wires should be stripped down a little.
7) Attach the positive wire to the leg of the LED that comes down from the little metal piece (see link) and the negative side to the big metal piece (see link):  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/%2B-_of_LED.svg  (just remember, small side inside the glass is positive, big is negative, kinda backwards)
Use the duct tape to mount the LED pointing towards you from the middle-bottom of your monitor/arcade machine screen.

if you followed those steps relatively closely, you should have a Wii-functional 1-LED IR Sensor "bar".
I've had mine plugged in on continual power for 4 days from some dubiously drained AAA batteries, and it still works fine.

Now, run through the connection routine that works for you, to get your Wiimote connected via bluetooth, and, see the Glovepie script I'm posting below (modified from someone on Wiili.org ... an AWESOME site)... the modifications I made help it be a little less jittery with only 1 LED... if you build a 2 LED version, you can find IR scripts that work perfectly fine with that, too.

See the pictures below for a snapshot or two of my ghetto fabulous setup.

[JKJudgeX]

GlovePIE script 1 (this lets you test your IR sensor bar setup, you won't be able to play MAME lightgun games directly)... I scalped this from someone on WiiLi.org ... I would love to give them credit but they didn't comment their name in the file.  So, thanks random Wiili.org GlovePIE contributor, I hope you don't mind my reposting your work, holmes, it's for the good of the byoac community!:

// Wiimote mouse script for Windows desktop
// Requires a sensor bar

var.ButtonFreezeTime = 250ms
var.PointerBump = KeepDown(Pressed(wiimote.A),var.ButtonFreezeTime) or KeepDown(Pressed(wiimote.B),var.ButtonFreezeTime)
Wiimote.Led1 = true

// Mouse movement
if wiimote.PointerVisible but not var.PointerBump then
  mouse.x = wiimote.PointerX
  mouse.y = wiimote.PointerY
end if

// Mouse Buttons
mouse.LeftButton = Wiimote.A and KeepDown(Wiimote.PointerVisible,0.5s)
mouse.RightButton = Wiimote.B and KeepDown(Wiimote.PointerVisible,0.5s)
mouse.MiddleButton = Wiimote.Home and KeepDown(Wiimote.PointerVisible,0.5s)
mouse.XButton1 = Wiimote.Minus
mouse.XButton2 = Wiimote.Plus

// Mouse Wheel
if wiimote.Up then
  mouse.WheelUp = true
  wait 30ms
  mouse.WheelUp = false
  wait 30ms
end if
if wiimote.Down then
  mouse.WheelDown = true
  wait 30ms
  mouse.WheelDown = false
  wait 30ms
end if


Okay, GlovePIE Script #2 also from a WiiLi.org contributor...  this guy credits himself in comments so I don't feel so bad.  I may have modified this script... I really dunno... but it works for me a little.  After setting up MAME, I could get my gun to move in Operation Wolf *kinda* the way I wanted it to, but not exactly. 

If someone either:
A) Report how/if you got these (or the original) scripts to work really well as a light gun in MAME... (I've only had limited success that way, since MAME doesn't take direct coordinates and you have to use the PPJOY thing as per the 2nd script there)
B) Figure out how to do it better (or even use a different emulator that takes the mouse input directly)
we'd be in serious business, cuz these work great as a mouse.

[JKJudgeX]

Sorry to post 3 times, but, I just wanted to say that the point of making an IR LED like that is really just for testing purposes... if someone has a good product, I say go ahead and buy it, but, it might be a good idea to get your setup in place with a homemade setup (since you guys probably have this stuff laying around), or by just using your nintendo Wii's sensor bar (just turn on the power to the Wii and bring the sensor bar over before you run glovepie, works like a charm with 2 LED sensor solutions). 

[Ginsu Victim]

Alternately, you can buy IR leds, resistors, and a project box at Radio Shack, then hack a USB cable for 5v power and step it down with the resistor.
Cleaner job, and no need for batteries. (If you do want it wireless, you can pick up a cheap battery holder too and skip the USB cable)
The thing to be sure of is how much power the LEDs need.
Seach for a "resistance calculator" online to figure what resistor your IR LEDs need.

[JKJudgeX]

Yes, do it GinsuVictim's way if you have time/money.  Pretty sure you could get that project done for the price of a spare USB cable + about $6-8 at radio shack and have a much nicer result...

It's actually what I would have done had I known when I went to get my wires that I'd be making a sensor bar...  I got home and hacked that together at about 10PM, far later than Radio Shack is open.

I guess the biggest advantage of either way is that you get to decide the form factor of your LED Bar, whether it's wireless, etc...  I don't want to buy a sensor bar shaped anything like what the nintendo one is, because it's waaay too wide, unnecessarily, and that severely limits how close you can get to it (the Wiimote has close to a 45 degree viewing angle with its IR camera, so, the closer you get, the more likely you are to only be seeing one of the two LEDs).

I believe that there are 2 LEDs on the default sensor bar primarily for determining the Y rotation orientation (I think it has internal gyros and such that help determine this as well, not 100% sure) and/or the distance to the WiiMote.  For *our* purposes, a single IR LED should suffice.  I've had some trouble with 2 IR setups using my sensor bar, as it can jump and wiggle if you accidentally occlude one of the LEDs.  This is why I have scripts for both 1 IR and 2 IR modes.

Some people put a piece of electrical tape over one of their IR LEDs in the sensor bar, I've read...  but, I assure you, with the information and scripts I've posted above, and your own LED Sensor bar (bought, Nintendos, or made either way described in this thread), you can get a rather surprisingly accurate mouse pointer (Suitable for shooting games outside of mame, such as the ones at WiiArcade, even)...
 
Anyway, good luck, and keep the info coming... (I'd love to see more screenshots/info of homemade IR sensor builds.  I don't have the expertise to do the USB power-cable thing and would love to see how it's done, if anyone has the motivation/skill/time to throw one together and take a few pics) 

[JKJudgeX]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/37790.html

just an example of the wiimote being used as a steering wheel on a system that doesn't even have the wiimote (this is N64).

I've seen a video of two people playing SNES (I think) mario kart with a wiimote as well, but was unable to find it prior to posting.

It stands to reason that with good scripting that can allow *decent* play of these games with a wiimote, that good scripting could also enable us to play some driving games.  Albeit, we may not be able to actually *beat* these driving games without a few extra tokens this way, it would still be fun, nonetheless. for those of us without arcade wheels.