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Author Topic: My next new car?  (Read 9212 times)

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shmokes

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2008, 10:01:02 pm »

I'll bet that the Mazdaspeed 3 will be a million times more fun than a Civic SI.  If you're going to compare cars, at least compare both "performance" versions of the models we're talking about.


Oh . . . I didn't do any research.  I assumed that yours was the performance one, hence the bigger engine.  I really have no idea.  The Mazdaspeed might make the Civic Si claw at the dashboard and scream like a schoolgirl for all I know.

On the crash test thing, I say "nowhere near as good" for a couple reasons.  First, when checking crash test ratings, I use the more comprehensive tests done by the insurance industry rather than those done by the government.  They use test off-set crashes which do a better job of simulating real-world crashes than perfectly squared head-on crashes.  In those tests the Honda Civic gets the highest score possible in every category, while the Mazda 3 gets the lowest score possible in side-impact and the second-lowest score possible for rear-end collisions.  But even using only the government ratings, the Civic was the only car in its class with great scores in every test.  Some cars had decent side-impact numbers, but ---smurfy--- head-on.  Some will kill you in a rollover; some can't take a broadside.  If the Mazda 3 only trailed the Civic in one area I would just say that it wasn't as good.  But trailing in both head-on and side-impact is pretty significant.  I might not use the words "nowhere near as good" if I was only looking at the government tests, but according to the IIHS crash tests, I think the phrase is pretty reasonable.  And those are the crash tests that insurance premiums are based on.
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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2008, 10:17:53 pm »
Thanks for that link, that's pretty interesting.  I hadn't seen the IIHS stuff prior to that.  I have the optional side air bags which seem to alter the tests a bit for the better, but that's quite a different story than the 3-4 star side impact stuff I've seen prior.  I guess I should be glad that I drive my car and don't ride in the back (kidding of course).  Its interesting to see now too as I was just in an accident recently, so it's on my mind.
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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2008, 11:28:40 pm »
I'm with the general concensus in this thread.  I test drove a Mini Cooper in 2005 and ended up buying a Scion Xa (looks a lot like the Honda Fit).  The Scion was more comfortable (for me, of course YMMV) a hell of a lot less expensive (~ $15,000 out the door) and gets almost 40mpg on my all highway drive to and from work.   

I'd owned three hondas prior to the Scion, two accords and a civic, and would have considered another but the low cost of the Scion was a deal breaker.  Side curtain airbags, low cost, great gas mileage and the fact it is a 4-door instead of 2, all made it the deal for me.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2008, 11:45:15 pm »
My wife's 99 Honda Civic went for 256K miles before we were totalled by a '64 Camaro.

And the Camaro had a slight scratch...

pretty much

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Re: My next new car.... a Mini Cooper?
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2008, 12:01:24 am »
Get a Honda Fit, I did... and I love it.  Not too expensive, great gas milage, and still fun to drive.

Here's a pic of mine parked in my driveway, the color is blackberry pearl:

My god is that one helluva pile of ugly!



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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2008, 01:45:29 am »
Nice link Shmokes....

Glad to see that both of my vehicles (Lexus RX300 and '06 IS250) rate very well for safety

 :cheers:

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Re: My next new car.... a Mini Cooper?
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2008, 03:03:54 am »
I'm with shardian... the MiniCooper is not an economy car.  It's a fuel efficient car but the extra cost isn't worth it.  Plus it's a tin can.  If you're really looking for a good car like that get a Civic or a Corolla.  The Matrix looks like a fun little car too if you need more "cool".

The Civic is probably still the best value out there in that range.  Just runs... for more than a decade.

well, ive been in harry potters (is he still harry potter here?) mini and i have to say that it was pretty comfy. im 6'1" something and harry is taller than me. also a tad quicker than the ol' corolla  ;)

on the economy side, well the price is the factor isnt it? its not particularly cheap...

as an aside, its funy how mercans are panicking about the price of petrol and thinking they will change down to more fuel efficient cars. they wont. fuel here is equivalent to about $5.30 a gallon and even more in europe. people still keep buying big new cars. factories still keep makin em. i would really like that to change, but it's a bit like the price of cigarettes- double it tomorrow and maybe people will stop for a week or so, then theyll be back on em...


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Re: My next new car.... a Mini Cooper?
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2008, 09:04:18 am »
Yeah but you gotta have some fun if you are going to be tooling around in a little box. 

I don't need my car to provide fun for me.  I'm not a car person.  Get me where I want to go efficiently and reliably for a long time.  I'll have fun when I get there.  Put a solid sound system in it and I'm good.

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Re: My next new car.... a Mini Cooper?
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2008, 09:06:42 am »
I don't need my car to provide fun for me.  I'm not a car person.  Get me where I want to go efficiently and reliably for a long time.  I'll have fun when I get there.  Put a solid sound system in it and I'm good.

The Fit Sport comes with 200 watt 6 speaker system with an aux jack for your MP3 player.   :D

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2008, 09:14:12 am »

I'd probably yank that and put one in that natively supports mp3.  My current car's stereo does.  No need to bother with an mp3 player and you only have to swap out the CD every couple of months.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2008, 09:16:41 am »

I'd probably yank that and put one in that natively supports mp3.  My current car's stereo does.  No need to bother with an mp3 player and you only have to swap out the CD every couple of months.

The stock CD player supports MP3 as well. The LCD display can be configured to show track name/folder name/artist/etc. I use Mp3 CD's for the most part, but sometimes I throw whatever I'm currently listening to on my player in there.

shmokes

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2008, 09:39:21 am »
Yeah, the Civic is the same way.  It's pretty nice.  I always keep a CD or two in the car filled with MP3s.  But my iPod is always updated with new music and audiobooks.  Throwing an audiobook on CD is an expensive pain in the ass, since they are typically 10 or more discs long.  I find myself splitting between my MP3 player and MP3 CDs pretty evenly.
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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2008, 09:43:45 am »

Ah.  I don't carry an mp3 player or anything like that.  Can't be bothered.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2008, 09:45:43 am »
Yeah I like the way Honda did the MP3 compatability.  Tune by folder, tune by track, random in folder, random in entire disc, etc.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2008, 09:48:27 am »

Random in entire disc is the one thing my Blaupunkt unit is missing that I wish it had.  Sounds incredible, almost zero skips even when the CD is beaten up, but you have to put everything in one folder in order to get whole disc random.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2008, 11:58:38 am »
Yeah I like the way Honda did the MP3 compatability.  Tune by folder, tune by track, random in folder, random in entire disc, etc.
I recently bought a 2007 Saturn Ion, largely because I got a 6 year 0% loan so the payments are extremely low, and it also has an MP3 player.  I like the way it does it because you can sort by file name, sort by artist, sort by album, sort by folder, and it also does random in entire disc (although it doesn't do random in folder).  The sound from the stereo is average at best, but I really like the main unit.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2008, 12:11:26 pm »
I test drove an Ion coup . . . the one that looks like a little two-door sports coup, but has suicide doors to get into the back seat.  It actually made the car much more conducive to dealing with taking a kid in and out of car seats in the middle, back seat because with the front and suicide door open, it gave tons of room to work with.  But the visibility was probably the worst of any car I've ever been in, aside from a Subaru SUV my mom owns (I can't think of the model number off-hand).

Anyway . . . most of that is a digression.  The thing I was going to point out was that when I was test driving cars, I had come up with this whole route I would take each car on, subjecting them to freeway, dirt road, sudden stops, etc.  At one point I stopped in a mall parking lot and tested turning radius, then got out and checked out things like trunk space, seat belt locations, and other appointments.  Anyway, when I checked the turning radius of the Ion, I had to pick my jaw up off the floor.  I don't know if the regular Ion is the same as the sports coup, but I've never been in a vehicle with such a sharp turning radius before.  The thing could practically spin in place like it had four-way steering.  Incredible.

In the end, though, we decided against it cos of the unbelievably large blind spots and also because, while it looked like a sporty little coup, it didn't drive that way at all.  It felt fairly slow and sloppy.
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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2008, 12:19:13 pm »
I'm really enjoying this thread... glad I started it.  :cheers:
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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2008, 12:32:47 pm »
I test drove an Ion coup . . . the one that looks like a little two-door sports coup, but has suicide doors to get into the back seat.  It actually made the car much more conducive to dealing with taking a kid in and out of car seats in the middle, back seat because with the front and suicide door open, it gave tons of room to work with.  But the visibility was probably the worst of any car I've ever been in, aside from a Subaru SUV my mom owns (I can't think of the model number off-hand).

Anyway . . . most of that is a digression.  The thing I was going to point out was that when I was test driving cars, I had come up with this whole route I would take each car on, subjecting them to freeway, dirt road, sudden stops, etc.  At one point I stopped in a mall parking lot and tested turning radius, then got out and checked out things like trunk space, seat belt locations, and other appointments.  Anyway, when I checked the turning radius of the Ion, I had to pick my jaw up off the floor.  I don't know if the regular Ion is the same as the sports coup, but I've never been in a vehicle with such a sharp turning radius before.  The thing could practically spin in place like it had four-way steering.  Incredible.

In the end, though, we decided against it cos of the unbelievably large blind spots and also because, while it looked like a sporty little coup, it didn't drive that way at all.  It felt fairly slow and sloppy.
I got the 4 door one, and while I never drove the 2 door one to compare, but the blind spots are not that bad in the 4 door one, although they are bigger then most cars I test drove.  The turning radius sound likes its the same though because thats become one of my favorite things about the car.  I'm a residential real estate appraiser, so I'm constantly doing U turns on small residential streets which used to be 3 point turns in my previous car.  Overall I'd say the car is perfectly average, I don't love it, but its the perfect work car for me and I got a great deal on it.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2008, 02:52:51 pm »
My Fit Sport comes with cruise control, which I've never had before.  It's nice, but I don't get to use it that often in Phoenix traffic...   :banghead:  The dealer through in free window tinting (a necessity here), which was nice.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2008, 04:00:05 pm »
My Honda Civic had an option for an iPod dongle for like $350 that allows you to control the iPod from the head unit.  I didn't get it, but I saw a review of it.  It looks unbelievably awful.  As nice as it would be to be able to keep my iPod out of sight (and charging) in the glove box and control it with the head unit, Honda's implementation seems to be utter crap.  The generic audio in port is standard, and good enough.
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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2008, 06:42:39 pm »
Best Vehicles under $25k

Saw this article today and thought it was pretty relevant to this discussion.  It's a pretty nice run down of what you can get for $25k these days in the new car world. 
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Re: My next new car.... a Mini Cooper?
« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2008, 06:50:30 pm »
Get a Honda Fit, I did... and I love it.  Not too expensive, great gas milage, and still fun to drive.

Here's a pic of mine parked in my driveway, the color is blackberry pearl:

My god is that one helluva pile of ugly!



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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2008, 08:12:21 pm »

That's awesome.  I just realized that babies are smaller than a good cheeseburger.

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Re: My next new car.... a Mini Cooper?
« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2008, 11:12:19 pm »
Unless they are rusting out then that isn't really true. You might have a bad year or two, but for the vast majority of cars it is more economically viable to keep repairing them then it is to buy a brand new car.

You see when you buy a new car you are paying for 100 percent new parts and 100 percent of the labor to put a new car together, (and all the taxes and higher insurance rates associated with a new car).

However, most of the components in an existing car that you keep repairing will never get replaced.

Many studies have been done on this and keeping an old car on the road that isn't rusting out is FAR cheaper per mile than a new car is. In fact the annual difference in insurance costs, interest and taxes alone on a late model vehicle (compared to an older devalued one) is usually FAR HIGHER than those supposed pricey repair costs.

Even stuff like Porsches, Bentley's and that Mercedes 380SL I have (which have wicked high repair and maintenance costs) still compare very favorably in price towards driving a NEW car.



Well, there's a point where you're paying as much in repair per month as you are for a new car payment.  That is definitely well before the car is a useless pile of steel. 
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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2008, 11:33:00 pm »
One little known secret is the fact that many compact cars are over well over their weight limit if you even put a grown man of AVERAGE weight in each seat. However the mini is an abberation in this category and can safely hold over 1000 lbs,

You see they aren't actually designing the cars to hold 4 fat ass adults, they are designing them to hold, well, midgets or children or something. 2 seaters and performance cars are really dreadful in this area, often rated to hold less somewhere around 340-350 lbs TOTAL, driver, passenger and cargo. My old 2 seater Geo Metro convertible was over the weight limit every single time I had a passenger.




Does it feel like the suspension could handle carrying an average sized cab in the back?

Considering cars have to be designed to ride with 4 fat ass adults in them now, I don't think a cabinet will strain the suspension too much. ;D
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Re: My next new car.... a Mini Cooper?
« Reply #66 on: March 19, 2008, 11:25:23 am »
Unless they are rusting out then that isn't really true. You might have a bad year or two, but for the vast majority of cars it is more economically viable to keep repairing them then it is to buy a brand new car.


In New England they are all rusted out when they reach that tipping point.  More cars are done in by rust and undercarriage rot than by other mechanical failure.  There is no point in replacing a transmission or engine in a car that also has major rust problems in the suspension and body, especially since state inspections now fail cars with any more than small amounts of body rust. 

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2008, 05:18:24 pm »
No rust problems here in AZ...

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2008, 07:17:49 pm »
Not a lot of rust in CA either...

And for what it's worth a properly maintained older car can be very reliable.  My Dad has a '67 chevy truck that just goes and goes.  He paid $600 for it and drove it home.

I love driving that truck...

But still, anything under 10 years still should have some life left in it if it were taken care of properly.




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Re: My next new car.... a Mini Cooper?
« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2008, 07:52:22 pm »


Let us start out by realizing something, and that something is that this is no longer 1955 and most cars do not break down all the time. The reliability of cars made from the 1980s onward is incredible compared to older models. A few memes got started a long time ago and unfortunately persist to this day, even though they are no longer true for modern vehicles. The first is that older cars break down all the time, and the second is that cars are pretty much finished at 100,000 miles.

But how reliable is reliable you might ask? Well, right now millions of people are driving cars 15 years old or more with scads of miles on them, and honestly those people do just fine. I myself have been driving older cars pretty much my entire life, and yes they do need repairs from time to time, but they do not just leave you stranded all the time. In almost 14 years of driving I have only been stuck on the side of the road one time, and that was in a late-model Honda. In general I have found about once a year I will have a vehicle that is disabled in some way. Usually this will be an unable to start situation when the vehicle is in front of my dwelling. About once more per year I will have something in need of immediate repair, but that will still be able to be limped home, or to the repair shop.

Being mildly put out twice a year might be worth $5000 in extra payments, insurance, and taxes to some people, but not to me. Yes I might have to be someplace, I could possibly even be late due to a horrible breakdown. But, once again this isn't 1955 anymore, cellular phones have reached almost full population saturation and a tow truck, taxi or friend is only minutes away. In practice I have been late to work because of a car problem perhaps twice in 14 years, and one of those car problems was because the car wasn't there when I went out to get in it. Also, one must remember that new cars can also break down as well.

Now, there do exist in the world cars that truly do break down all the time, most of these cars are continually failing due to the same exact problem that is never truly repaired. This was a lot more common back in the days before everything was using fuel injection. Now if you have a car like that then you have to either get rid of it, or have the problem actually repaired. A car with a carburetor in need of a rebuild cannot be faulted just because you can manage to get it started most of the time with starting fluid, curse words, and elbow grease. Most cars that do break down all the time do so because of a single (or multiple) problem that is not actually being repaired. Vehicles are not very likely to break down twice a week with continually unrelated problems. A vehicle only has so many components that can malfunction.

Auto repairs usually are not free, they cost money, and usually you will be the one paying for them. But statistically speaking, repairs over any longer period of time cannot even begin to match the costs of driving a newer vehicle. You would have to be daily driving a pre-war exotic like a 1937 Cord 810 to even begin to have longterm repair bills that would rival the costs of payments on a new car.

A lot of people do get bitten with repair bills they have trouble paying at one point or another and then get eternally scared away from older cars. Having talked to a lot of these people I have found two very common threads amongst these stories. The most common one involves people who finance a vehicle that is honestly too old and too high mileage to even consider making a monthly payment on. Very often they will be financing a vehicle with 80,000 miles (or much more), and then have a terrible time being able to pay for routine repairs because they could barely afford the payment in the first place. Even worse they will often be stuck in situations where they must make very high dollar repairs like replacing a transmission, or rebuilding an engine because they still owe thousands of dollars on the vehicle. That transmission or engine is going to come at a premium price as well, since the vehicle will likely still be far too new to simply be able to source a $125 used transmission or $500 used engine, instead you will be stuck with a $2000 repair bill.

Most vehicles have an absolutely terrible period where their value, mileage, age and service requirements all interact in an awful fashion to make them true money pits. This varies quite a bit from car to car, but an example might be a car that is 8 years old, has 90,000 miles on it, but that is still easily worth four to five thousand dollars USD on the dealer's lot. That particular vehicle will likely be financed by the purchaser, will plummet in value faster than the payments are made, and require as many repairs (at a higher cost), than a car five years older with many more miles. In fact such vehicles often need more repairs than something older because they are exactly at the point in their lives where stuff that has been wearing out for years starts going. That is all fine and good if the car is paid for, you have owned it for years and you know you kept the maintenance up, but it can be a disaster if you are still making payments on it. Unfortunately the first car that many young people finance are often one of these.

The second common thread is people who simply have no idea when to choose their battles when it comes to automotive repairs. They will spend $2000 sinking a brand new transmission into a $1500 car because it was shifting hard into 3rd, and that was the only way to fix it. I have had cars that had problems like that, problems that got no better and no worse for years, cars that took unrepaired $2000 problems like that all the way to the junkyard when they died of a different illness. When you own a car, or anything that depreciates and will eventually grace a landfill you have to evaluate what is worth fixing, and what isn't worth fixing. You don't want to plow $1200 worth of front suspension work into a 15 year old compact that would be acceptable with a set of ball joints and a front end alignment. You don't want to spent $2500 doing bodywork on a $900 car that someone ran into, and actually what I would do in a case like that was continue to drive the car if it was still drivable, and then junk it as soon as it needed another repair or the tags ran out.
Unless they are rusting out then that isn't really true. You might have a bad year or two, but for the vast majority of cars it is more economically viable to keep repairing them then it is to buy a brand new car.

What's being able to rely on your car worth?

What's not having to bum rides off of friends, coworkers, or paying for taxis worth?

What's not having to take time off work to deal with lazy, dishonest mechanics worth?

What's not having to spend every weekend replacing parts worth?



Get stranded a few times with a dead cell phone and get back to us, Paige.  ;D


Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #70 on: March 20, 2008, 05:31:32 am »
I drove an old junker when I was a kid and sure you can run a junker cheap if you have friends who help put in junk parts when something breaks. It was always unreliable though and it would break down annoyingly often and at the most inconvenient times.

If you become an adult, for most people that's no longer an option. So if you want/need a reliable car, it needs to be properly maintained with refurbished or new parts. That's going to cost money. Not sure what the age limit was (and I would assume it depends on the brand and model), but it's somewhere between 6 or 8 years. After that to keep it reliable, the old car costs more than a new car due to the high costs for replacing parts.

The Dutch automobile club brings out a report every year showing how much each model car costs to run. They do this based on actual price info from consumers (mileage, maintenance costs, depreciation etc)

The cheapest reliable drive is by buying a 3 year old car and driving it for 3 to 5 years. A 3 year old car will have had most of it's depreciation done and it's still reasonably low on maintenance costs. Overall I wasn't that impressed by the price difference to buying new and running it for 5 to 6 years.

One major issue that will make me always buy a new car is safety. When a (similar sized) new car and a 6 year old car hit each other, the 6 year old car will come out of that accident a lot worse than the new one. The older the car the bigger the death trap.
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Re: My next new car.... a Mini Cooper?
« Reply #71 on: March 20, 2008, 08:40:27 am »

In New England they are all rusted out when they reach that tipping point.  More cars are done in by rust and undercarriage rot than by other mechanical failure.  There is no point in replacing a transmission or engine in a car that also has major rust problems in the suspension and body, especially since state inspections now fail cars with any more than small amounts of body rust. 


I grew up in NH and this was always the case.... now I'm in MD and rust is not a problem... I remember it seemed like I needed to replace my exhaust systems every two years in NH.. and when stainless steel exhausts came around it was like woah!  In NH they put a mixture of sand and salt on the roads... they don't do that here... the sand is killer, you are basically sand-blasting your car just by driving it around.... no mud flaps and your screwed!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 08:42:18 am by RetroACTIVE »
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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #72 on: March 20, 2008, 08:41:01 am »
Buying 8 year old cars with 80k miles is like the lottery, only with much better odds. You have probably a 60-70% chance of driving without any problems at all for 3-4 years. And honestly, you won't lose much in depreciation at all if it was a nice car. Hondas and Toyotas depreciation levels out after so much.
After that 3 years is up and you came out like roses, you can get nearly ALL of your original money back for the car, especially if you leave it nicer than you got it.

As to constant repairs - I have been there. As a college kid, it was the only way I could have a vehicle. Breakdowns are a way of life when you can only afford a $1000 car.
At this point though, I'm not quite to the point I can afford a new car, but I want a nice used car that will get me there without issues day in/day out. That is definitely worth a few more thousand spread over a few years.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #73 on: March 20, 2008, 08:48:26 am »
Buying 8 year old cars with 80k miles is like the lottery, only with much better odds. You have probably a 60-70% chance of driving without any problems at all for 3-4 years. And honestly, you won't lose much in depreciation at all if it was a nice car. Hondas and Toyotas depreciation levels out after so much.
After that 3 years is up and you came out like roses, you can get nearly ALL of your original money back for the car, especially if you leave it nicer than you got it.


Not here.  Even a Civic is a bit eyebrow-raising if it goes 175k here.  By that point you've poured a ton of money replacing nearly everything on the undercarriage at least once, nevermind any type of drivetrain wear parts like a timing belt or a transmission.  An American car of any brand?  Forget it.  By the time you get to 150k, if you're damn lucky to get there, your floorboards will be gone, the steering will be trash, and you're on your third exhaust longpipe.

You just don't stand a chance when you can run your car through the car wash, and by the time you get the 4 miles home, there is already a white powdercoating of salt all the way up to the door trim.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #74 on: March 20, 2008, 11:48:00 am »
I've never known anyone that well who actually owned a Volvo but you do see a good amount more older Volvos than Fords, Chevy, etc.

As RetroActive mentioned there isn't a paint job out there that is going to protect your undercarriage from being sandblasted 8 months a year.  Not even electrolytic.  Cars are better than they used to be about this, sure, but it used to be a Ford was swiss cheese at 100k.  Now you just get more time but still nothing like you'll get elsewhere.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #75 on: March 20, 2008, 11:49:04 am »
Unreliable older cars are fine if you're single, I guess.

And, yeah, they've really improved the quality of them lately. 

I'm surprised rust is still such a problem, though.  I thought all the car makers were electrolytically painting the undercarriages now.  Volvo's used to be zinc plated, how do they hold up?



Oh yeah, I forgot about the single thing. Old POS cars that break down are a bad idea if you have a baby/toddler. That is the main reason I upgraded.

As to Volvo's, they are the ONLY car maker to ever go the extra yard on their body protection. It is very rare to see rust on a volvo, even in bad conditions. I have two. the '89 740 with almost 300k miles doesn't have a spot of rust anywhere, and it has seen more than its share of salt. The 94 850 has had crumpled area on the front exposed to elements around the edges for years and barely has surface rust there.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #76 on: March 20, 2008, 12:06:54 pm »

Why would they salt roads where you live?  Odd.

Here they salt the roads so much you can literally taste it in the air some mornings.  It's nasty.  You can't lean on your car - you'll end up with a coating of salt on your clothes.  Salt saturated runoff does such damage to my lawn every year that some years I almost have to start over.  The roads look like salt flats when they dry out - white powdery patterns everywhere.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #77 on: March 20, 2008, 12:09:35 pm »

Why would they salt roads where you live?  Odd.

Here they salt the roads so much you can literally taste it in the air some mornings.  It's nasty.  You can't lean on your car - you'll end up with a coating of salt on your clothes.  Salt saturated runoff does such damage to my lawn every year that some years I almost have to start over.  The roads look like salt flats when they dry out - white powdery patterns everywhere.

I lived in southwest Virginia for a while.  Quite a bit of road salt used during the winter.  There's this little thing called snow, the salt melts it.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #78 on: March 20, 2008, 12:10:30 pm »

Why would they salt roads where you live?  Odd.

Here they salt the roads so much you can literally taste it in the air some mornings.  It's nasty.  You can't lean on your car - you'll end up with a coating of salt on your clothes.  Salt saturated runoff does such damage to my lawn every year that some years I almost have to start over.  The roads look like salt flats when they dry out - white powdery patterns everywhere.

We get snow here too you know. They also tend to go overboard with the salt. When I commuted an hour to school in my Tracker, which was black, it would stay snow white all winter.

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Re: My next new car?
« Reply #79 on: March 20, 2008, 12:12:30 pm »

Didn't know that.  I've had friends come up from VA and go "holy CRAP wtf is with the salt on everything".