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Author Topic: How to use SCART for our hobby  (Read 83865 times)

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BLASTEROO

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #280 on: December 06, 2010, 11:34:32 am »
Zebidee,

Thanks for the input!  :cheers:

I forgot to mention that the Sony TV did actually switch to Av mode a few months ago, then it stopped doing that. Sorry!! My bad...!
I have built two different cables but nothing changed. The cables are OK as I have tested it on two different TVs and they switch super fast to Av mode, but not the Sony.

Any ideas?

orchidius

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #281 on: December 06, 2010, 03:59:18 pm »
I just did some more extensive testing (first time I just turned it on to see if it worked), and I noticed that the letters in windows were very hard to read... Is there an easy fix for that? Secondly, there's a whole chunk missing on the top of the screen too. Too much to ignore... How do I adjust the scanlines as you said to make it fit again?

Thnx!!

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #282 on: December 06, 2010, 05:51:06 pm »
@orchidius - it might just be a problem with your TV (e.g. vertical collapse - where the pic is not fully expanded vertically).

To adjust the overscan you need to enter service mode - that procedure is different for every TV. You need a service manual (i.e. not a user guide).

Otherwise, intelligent mode choice for MAME and other games will help to some extent. Info on how to adjust game video modes that can be found else where on this forum, and in other places.
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BLASTEROO

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #283 on: December 13, 2010, 07:01:57 pm »
The problem was on the Tv´s PCB.
It was broken and the 12 volts the scart was sending didn't reach a resistor that appears to trigger the auto AV process.
Not always the scart/vga cable is to blame.
SOLVED

 :cheers: thanks

orchidius

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #284 on: February 22, 2011, 03:27:07 pm »
Hi everybody,

So, here's the deal: I'm using an old CRT television in a my cab, and I think I broke it, but I'm not sure. It's a SCART tv, and the plan was to apply +5v to scart-pin 16 with a 100ohm resistor in line. However, the resistor was shot (I found out after I noticed something was wrong), so I accidently applied +5v directly to SCART pin 16 (ground pin 18). The tv popped and now the screen looks like this:

IMG 0025


However, you hear some audio from the gameconsole that is connected to the tv, but it soon goes silent. No picture is ever visible on the screen.

So... Diagnostics? Is it fixable? Or do I have to throw it out?

Thanks!

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #285 on: February 24, 2011, 05:08:22 pm »
Looks like the TV is not syncing.

Did the TV actually make a 'pop' sound?

Is that test with or without SCART input? Does the TV otherwise work 'normally'?

Have you tried putting the TV into AV-RGB mode manually? You could try putting 12v to SCART pin 8. That should trigger AV mode.


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tcancian

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #286 on: July 18, 2011, 04:18:31 am »
Hey guys, great work at this thread.  :applaud:

I'm having some issues with my cable, there's distortion on the top of the screen, and the image isnt exactly fitting well.



The cursor looks "melted" to the right side.

My video card is an ArcadeVGA from Ultimarc, I've made a VGA to SCART cable, used the Twist method (H+V) to get csync but I have not grounded the sync, should I? I just need to ground pin 5+10 of the VGA to the 17 of the SCART? Some schematics on the internet don't mention ground at all, others just ground the horizontal and as suggested by orchidius I should ground both.  :dizzy:

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #287 on: July 18, 2011, 06:06:11 am »
I'm having some issues with my cable, there's distortion on the top of the screen, and the image isnt exactly fitting well.

... I have not grounded the sync, should I? I just need to ground pin 5+10 of the VGA to the 17 of the SCART?

Yes, for best results you should ground pins 5+10 to SCART ground.

Try grounding VGA10 => SCART17 and all the VGA RGB grounds to any other convenient SCART ground (even an audio ground will do).

Also, any more than just a few ohms resistance on the sync can generate the symptoms you describe. Use a multimeter to check resistance on VGA 13+14 (sync), as some cables have some resistance (more likely if they are sourced by cutting the cable off an old monitor, but I have even seen this on a cheap cable purchased new). Any more than a few ohms resistance and throw it away, find a new cable and start again.

This latter problem is a bugbear. Having learned the hard way, I will always test the sync resistance on a cable first before doing the rest, just in case.

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tcancian

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #288 on: July 18, 2011, 06:18:38 am »
@Zebidee

Thanks for the tips!! Will try out and post results soon  :cheers:

Oh, and one more question. I don't live in Europe, and to get RGB to my TV i'm using a RGB to YPrPb transcoder. Is there a limit to how much it can achieve? I read the maximum for NTSC is 242 non-interlaced vertical lines. Do horizontal lines matter at all? My target is 384x240 so I could run Third Strike natively. And by the way, having resistance at the sync signal could damage my equipment?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 06:24:02 am by tcancian »

Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #289 on: September 28, 2011, 07:34:37 pm »
G'day!

Thanks to the excellent information and tools on offer here I recently realized my long time dream of running MAME through a proper CRT monitor. I've successfully hooked up my Thinkpad laptop (with an internal ATI video card) to a huge Loewe Calida SCART TV.

This TV gives a great picture and, fortunately, the service mode is really easy to navigate so I've got the overscan and image positioning just right. The sound is really solid too!

The only complaint I have with this setup is that the reds and blues seem overloaded on certain games. For example, in Street Fighter II, Ken's red outfit looks quite blurred and seems to smear the surrounding image when he moves. Even worse is a game like Rainbow Islands: the rainbows are completely distorted and produce jittery artifacts. Red or blue text on any game is quite bad. However, any game that uses mostly tertiary colors looks fine. Something like Metal Slug looks amazing on this screen.

Any hints on how I might be able to address this problem? Do I need resistors on the RGB lines or something like that? I've tried adjusting the internal controls on the TV but it's as if the RGB signal that the TV is receiving from my VGA card is too hot for it to handle right from the start.

Thanks again for the informative write up!

Regards,
Dale
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #290 on: September 28, 2011, 10:35:45 pm »
Hello again,

After posting, I did some experimenting and managed to improve the image substantially! :)

What I did was this: drastically turned down the Saturation control in Catalyst (it's now 0.45 instead of 1.0 where I originally had it) and turned up the color control on the Loewe (originally on 31 out of 63 and now set to 59).

With this combination I don't get the same level of dot crawl and distortion on the Rainbow Islands title screen. It's still not perfect but much better. The rainbows in game now look far better. Also, in Street Fighter II, the flashing KO graphic during round isn't distorting like it was and the title screen is free from the flickering edges I was seeing.

So, it's a solution of sorts. I'd be interested to know what these findings might suggest about the way my VGA card and TV are interfacing with each other if anyone has ideas...

Regards,
Dale
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apfelanni

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #291 on: October 01, 2011, 04:31:01 am »
a loewe 100 hertz tv might be a good choice for watching tv but bad for mamescart purpose. most 100 hertz tvs look very artifical with retrogaming , more like a lcd tv than a classic 50/60 hertz . all the picture enhancer + problems with some refreshrates and resolutions make em a pita. less tech on the chassis like on oldies from the nineties and the picture can be 100 % arcadestyle .

Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #292 on: October 02, 2011, 07:17:15 am »
Hmm. This Loewe Calida is looking pretty damn good now that I've fiddled with the saturation. Certainly, it won't sync to all modes listed in soft15khz, especially the really low res modes. However, most games I'm interested in have useful modes available and the screen looks better than many of the arcade monitors I encountered back in my youth.

I'd be interested to know what recommendations can be made in regards to brands and models best suited to the cause. I'm in Australia and the majority of CRTs don't have a SCART port. If I knew exactly what I was looking for I could watch eBay but most listing don't even state if the TV has a SCART port or not so without knowledge of specific brands and models it's hard to know what to shoot for.

Any pointers?
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Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #293 on: October 02, 2011, 08:13:14 pm »
Another update: it's hard rubbish time in my suburb so there are plenty of TVs out on the street. I drove around last night but only found a couple units with SCART ports. One was an LG Golden Eye which wouldn't come out of standby and the other was a Loewe Contur which works (but no remote).

I hooked the Contur up to my laptop and it showed a picture straight away. I started up Rainbow Islands and couldn't believe the difference! The reds don't bleed and every pixel is sharp and yet the image still has the warmth and character of a CRT. I just wish I had a remote so I could adjust the overscan.

The sound is tinny compared with the Loewe Calida and the screen isn't as huge but the difference in actual picture quality is very interesting.
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apfelanni

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #294 on: October 04, 2011, 02:36:48 pm »
philips series 4xxx , 5xxx or older and grundig cuc 4xxx , 5xxx , 6xxx , 20xx make good arcadereplacement tvs , all are 50-60 hertz models with philips / philips lg tubes , sometimes maybe orion or toshiba . check philips homepage for infos or google fitforfuture pdf to list the 50 hertz grundig models . sometimes metz and loewe are an alternate option , but grundig and philips were the biggest crt tv supplieres in central europe . the eak philips tubes were build for maybe 25 years and u cab find em in many tvs sets and european arcade cabinets . the quality can be compared with toshiba or hitachi /nanao .

if u cant find european manufactured tvs u may try toshiba , lg , panasonic or orion .

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #295 on: October 05, 2011, 05:17:54 am »
For SCART TVs, I look for these brands:

Euro:

- Phillips (most large ones)
- Loewe (all)
- Blaupunkt (all)
- Telefunken (all)
- Grundig (all)

And so forth. Most relatively recent models of these Euro TVs will have Phillips screens in them which are fantastic quality. They have a 'bonded yoke' (i.e. you can't adjust the purity and convergence rings as this is all done perfectly in the factory, no need to adjust).

Some cheaper brands I also consider are:
- Akai (some)
- Teac (some)
- Panasonic (some)
etc.

I just love Loewe 100mhz 'Blackline' TVs for MAME as they have a great picture. However, I have noticed that they have a tendency to develop 'dot-crawl', especially with red colours. I have a Loewe 100mhz 59cm TV mounted in my main vertical cab, but it suffers dot-crawl.

I am about to make a four-player cab using a working Loewe 100mhz 72cm TV. It works well, but exhibits some of this dot-crawl behaviour. However, I still love the tube. So, what I am going to do is pull the TV apart and take it's fantastic phillips tube w/ bonded yoke out, and use that to make an arcade monitor!

To do this, I measure the impedance (horizontal and vertical) of the yoke using a simple multimeter, and then order a arcade monitor chassis to suit from my mate Joey at JOMAC (in Perth, Western Australia). I then fit the chassis to the tube and viola, I have a fantastic arcade monitor! This will suit my plans perfectly as I am going to fit it into an old cab that already has a working arcade power supply and JAMMA setup, just no monitor at the moment.

The arcade monitor chassis will cost about $250, but I must compare this to the cost of getting the TV repair guy to look at my Loewe (about $150). Hmmmm, suddenly the arcade chassis idea is a lot more attractive! The arcade monitor will be a lot easier to fit into a cab as well.

In terms of hassle, using the tube to make an arcade monitor is generally simpler. No worries about getting a TV chassis mounted into a cab (they aren't designed for this!). No stuffing around with service modes. Greater flexibility about setting screen geometry and adjusting colours. Arcade monitors are easier and cheaper to get serviced (if necessary) as well, and I can do a lot of repair work myself. If I can't do it myself, I can just take the chassis and post it to my service guy if necessary.

By comparison, the local Loewe service guy always give me wierd, suspicious looks when I tell him what I am using my Loewe for. He insists on me giving him the complete TV, which is a problem if you have de-cased it to put in a cab. I can't post a complete TV, so I have to deliver it to him on the other side of town. The problems are more difficult for him to diagnose and fix, and he charges too much!

The best part about making arcade monitors from ex-TV tubes is that TV tubes are better quality (A-grade) than those typically used for standard arcade monitors (B-grade), and I don't have to worry about SCART. Any good quality TV will do, even if it doesn't work!


 
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Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #296 on: October 05, 2011, 07:03:40 pm »
Wow! Thanks so much for the informative replies! Fascinating and useful reading.

Zebidee, your idea of hooking up the screen from a Loewe to an actual arcade chassis is tantalising. However, I'm probably going to have limit myself to keeping the original TV intact and attaching a controller to mimic the arcade feel (I've rewired an old Battlestation II controller with the guts from some cheap Logitech gamepads). My girlfriend is supportive of my love for arcade games but we're in an apartment and getting a cab up the stairs would be extremely difficult. The other thing is that while I'm nifty with a soldering iron, what you describe is probably beyond my abilities at the moment. I assume you're in Australia... but where abouts? I'd love to see your collection! :)

apfelanni, thanks for your input too! On your advice I've picked up some other units (from the side of the road) and noticed a marked difference in the way different TVs treat the RGB input. On the Loewe Calida, the picture is generally amazing but red text on black gives the game away. On the Loewe Contur, the colours are very clean but I've decided it looks a little more "clinical" than the Calida. I also have a Grundig with a CUC 6353 chassis. This screen is clean, bright and vibrant. However, this unit hasn't been cared for and there is some jitter in the bottom left corner and distortion along the left side. If it worked properly, I'd say the Grundig would be my choice. I also have a 16:9 Loewe Cantus that looks like it completely reprocesses all the RGB information it's given and spits it back looking very different. Looks great for video files but more like a regular VGA monitor for games.

I live in Brighton, Victoria, Australia which is a very affluent suburb. This means that when people throw out their old TVs, they tend to be top-of-the-line. There is staged hard rubbish for the next 4 weekends so I'll be out on the prowl.

Aside from the curb and eBay, where else do you guys find your SCART TVs? Even on eBay, a Grundig CRT only pops up now and then. The Loewes are more regular but it's still just a trickle. The others are even rarer. Man, I wish I'd known about this whole MAME/SCART scene 5 years ago! :(
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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #297 on: October 06, 2011, 06:49:29 am »
Go down to your local revolve/recycling centre. You might have to pay $5, but that is all.
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Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #298 on: October 10, 2011, 01:46:02 am »
Another scavenging update…

I spent a few hours cruising around checking out all the junk on the sides of the streets in my suburb on the weekend.

I found four units with potential: 2 TEACs, 1 Grundig and 1 Loewe (which had the power cable snipped). The only other TVs with SCART ports were massive, silver coloured, widescreen Sonys. All the 16:9 flat screens CRTs I've tried have given a pretty crappy result (and the aspect ratio is obviously wrong for classic gaming) so I left those where they were.

Due to juggling car space, I had to ditch the Loewe in favour of a set of chairs my girlfriend wanted. Pity because it was an older Loewe with an E3000 chassis (same as the excellent Contur that I've mentioned). Shame I didn't get to try that one… chances are it didn't work since the cable had been cut.

As for the others, one of the TEACs reeked of cigarette smoke and produced an laughable image: it was so blurred that it was what I'd call "impressionistic".  ;) Foggy shapes on the screen.

The second TEAC was better but had crappy colours: things were all over the place. Besides which, it was ugly and only a small screen. I was still interested to try but I ended up dumping it again.

I had high hopes for the Grundig! Such a stylish unit! Had my fingers crossed… and luckily it powered up! The image is crisp, has vibrant colours and is completely free from dot crawl! The downside is that the image flickers slightly. I'm not talking about interlace flicker but a slight pulsation that is quite obvious when looking at a stationary image (e.g. the Windows desktop). This is most noticeable in the bottom left and top right corners. My other Loewes don't do this but I have seen this kind of unstable image many times before on actual arcade machines.

My question is this: is there an obvious fix for this kind of issue or would a repair be way too expensive to bother? I see that replacing caps is a big thing around here but I'm not sure what that remedies. I'd love to get this Grundig back to it's full glory: it's a great looking unit and I can tell the image would have been magnificent when it was in its prime.

Thanks for all the advice so far! :)
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Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #299 on: October 10, 2011, 03:37:47 pm »
I'm trying to connect a Sony Trinitron KV-X2502U to a Jamma PCB & PSU via scart. I thought I had connected it as per instructions from this thread, but I don't get any picture on the TV. The TV goes to AV1 when the cab is turned on and when I adjust the +5v on the Jamma switch mode psu I do get some screen wobble when its increased. Here is how I've wired it; (please can you let me know if I've done something wrong)

SCART  >> PCB / PSU

Pin 5/9/13/17 >> Video Ground
Pin 7 >> Blue Video
Pin 11 >> Green Video
Pin 15 >> Red Video
Pin 20 >> Sync
Pin 21 >> FG (PSU)
Pin 8 >> +12v (PSU)
Pin 16 >> +5v with 100 Ohms resistor (PSU)
Pin 18 >> Ground (PSU)

After I'd put the resistor in and checked it again it measures at 50 Ohms, is this right?


« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 03:44:14 pm by Jollywest »

Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #300 on: October 12, 2011, 01:11:50 am »
Out of interest, has anybody ever tried a Bang & Olufsen CRT for MAME/SCART purposes? In particular, the MX series? These units still seem to fetch a fair price and I was wondering whether they're actually any good or the high price is just driven by collectors and hype.
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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #301 on: October 13, 2011, 05:39:54 am »

I'm not talking about interlace flicker but a slight pulsation that is quite obvious when looking at a stationary image ... My question is this: is there an obvious fix for this kind of issue or would a repair be way too expensive to bother?

Sounds like horizontal oscillator or something like that. But who knows for sure? The trouble is that every TV is different so you may be better off asking on a service tech forum somewhere. Or taking it to a local repair guy (~$150). Regarding value, refer to my earlier discussion on taking the tube from your Grundig (later model Grundigs use the nice Phillips tubes with bonded yokes) and using a brand new custom chassis. You can get them from www.jomac.net.au (Australia, where I get them) or also from 8liners I believe (US). About $250 for a new chassis and much easier to service or repair yourself. Image quality will be as good or better than the Grundig was in its prime.

Quote
I see that replacing caps is a big thing around here but I'm not sure what that remedies.

I'm not such a big fan on applying cap kits. While this partial blanket approach may be a good idea for tired old arcade monitors that have been used in hot/humid environments, it rarely solves underlying major problems. Better to get an ESR (low ohms) meter with which you can test your caps without removing them from the board! That way you can tell exactly which caps need to be replaced.

Quote
Thanks for all the advice so far! :)

Thanks! I just got a warm fuzzy feeling :)
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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #302 on: October 13, 2011, 05:56:31 am »
I'm trying to connect a Sony Trinitron KV-X2502U to a Jamma PCB & PSU via scart.

You may have sync problems because Jamma PCBs typically output fairly high sync and RGB signals. They might be 'out of range' for your Sony. You would have to test the voltages of these while on and 'in-circuit' (ie plugged in). Which I know is a pain because you have probably insulated everything etc.

Quote
After I'd put the resistor in and checked it again it measures at 50 Ohms, is this right?

Apparently no, but I'm not sure what else is in circuit or if you are shorting somewhere. Don't forget that you should test ohms (resistance / impedance) while off and you need to be aware of whatever else is in the circuit (e.g. many TVs RGB inputs are 75 ohm 'terminated'). For example, a circuit with two 100 ohm resistors in parallel will give 50 ohms resistance. Did you test your resistor before putting it in?

Try testing the voltage available to pin 16 while on and in circuit. It should be in the range 1-3 volts. Then try doing that for R-G-B. It should vary between around 0-1 volts.
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Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #303 on: October 13, 2011, 05:57:32 am »
Out of interest, has anybody ever tried a Bang & Olufsen CRT for MAME/SCART purposes?

They should work well. There is no reason why they shouldn't.
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Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #304 on: October 13, 2011, 08:03:07 am »
@Zebidee

Thanks for the detailed response.
I did test the resistor but while it was on a pcb so it may have been in parallel with another resistor. Hopefully I'll get chance to check tonight and try those voltages as well.

Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #305 on: October 14, 2011, 07:51:08 am »
Another field report...

I went for a trip down the road tonight and tried out a Bang & Olufsen Beovision MX6000 that I saw on eBay. Amazing looking unit! Very "space age" and a real work of art. However, although it worked very nicely with MAME using SCART (good colours, no dot crawl), the actual image wasn't anything above the Loewes and Grundigs I've now tried. Plus, there was a bit of a defect in the very top part of the image: straight vertical lines showed something of a horizontal indent in the image. Considering the TV cost about $5,000 new, I found that surprising.

Overall, if I saw one of these cheap, I reckon I'd grab it. However, the owner was after top dollar so I decided it wasn't worth the asking price.

Definitely a viable option for MAME/SCART but not worth paying a premium for if (as I was) you're expecting the picture quality to equate directly to the original retail price.
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Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #306 on: October 15, 2011, 09:41:47 am »
Try testing the voltage available to pin 16 while on and in circuit. It should be in the range 1-3 volts. Then try doing that for R-G-B. It should vary between around 0-1 volts.

Only just had chance this morning to have a crack at this, Still no luck with getting a picture on the TV though.
I checked the voltages, the +5v (with 100 Ohms resistor) measures at 2.5v and the R-G-B measures at 0v. However when measuring the R-G-B there isn't any fluctuation at all on the meter it just stays on 0v, is this normal?
I did receive the cab untested so I don't even know whether the game PCB does work, Red lights come on the PCB but the monitor was shot so I couldn't tell if it did work. Could it be that there is no RGB signal coming from the PCB?  
I've attached a pic of how I've connected it up, excuse the crude wiring its just for testing at the minute.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 09:54:44 am by Jollywest »

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #307 on: October 15, 2011, 11:30:55 am »
Try testing the voltage available to pin 16 while on and in circuit. It should be in the range 1-3 volts. Then try doing that for R-G-B. It should vary between around 0-1 volts.

Only just had chance this morning to have a crack at this, Still no luck with getting a picture on the TV though.
I checked the voltages, the +5v (with 100 Ohms resistor) measures at 2.5v and the R-G-B measures at 0v. However when measuring the R-G-B there isn't any fluctuation at all on the meter it just stays on 0v, is this normal?

Switching signal voltage seems OK. The R-G-B voltage levels will vary depending upon what colours the PCB is trying to display. So, if the PCB is on black screen then there would be zero R-G-B voltage.

Quote
I did receive the cab untested so I don't even know whether the game PCB does work, Red lights come on the PCB but the monitor was shot so I couldn't tell if it did work. Could it be that there is no RGB signal coming from the PCB?  

Very possibly. You have too many unknowns. You need to test the PCB separately as its status is unknown. If you had another SCART cable and a MAME PC setup then you could at least test the TV separately.
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Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #308 on: October 15, 2011, 01:40:58 pm »

You need to test the PCB separately as its status is unknown. If you had another SCART cable and a MAME PC setup then you could at least test the TV separately.

I've tested the TV on a MAME PC I have and it does show a picture (see pic attached), So the cable is fine. I've also tested the PSU and that's ok as well, So it looks like it is an issue with the Video coming from the PCB. I guess the next step is to test the PCB, Not sure where to begin really, any pointers? Thanks for the help so far by the way.

Zebidee

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #309 on: October 15, 2011, 02:36:51 pm »
So it looks like it is an issue with the Video coming from the PCB.

Try another PCB? Maybe try a cheap multi game one from ebay. Or run your mame PC through a JPAC?
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Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #310 on: October 15, 2011, 03:52:29 pm »

Try another PCB? Maybe try a cheap multi game one from ebay. Or run your mame PC through a JPAC?

Yea I don't have any other Jamma PCB's but will get one from ebay, cheers.

apfelanni

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #311 on: October 17, 2011, 06:07:11 pm »
update .. a buddy from german arcadeforum suggested to take a 50/60 hertz sony kv-21x5d , kv-25x5d or a kv29x5d for mamescart or mak+pcb purpose . so i checked the neighborhood , found a workin 29 and 21 inch and a 25 inch with defective chassis . all tvs are using sony trinitron tubes , with great colors like the sony pvm series broadcasting monitors. first i tried the 29 inch . picture was good , but i dont really like lowres in 25+x inch. so i decided to swap the chassis with the smaller 25 inch tv. after some adjustment all was fine . the real surprise was the kv-x215d. i shopped one on ebay for 15 bucks . the pic quality was amazing .
maybe one of the best lowres tv replacement screens u can get . u may consider pickin a 50 hertz sony , if u find one on ure daily tour .

the downside of the trinitrons is :

- the tv sets are heavy as hell !! gorilla them back home is a real horror.. i thought 4 floors up - down with a 29 inch toshiba or philips flat tv sucks , but the 29 inch sony beats em all . 
- the tubes dont fit in common semi oder flat bezels ( and mounting frames ? ), so mounting + bezeling might be a problem if u want to replace a broken arcade crt.
- sonys sometimes have problems with geometry issues or discoloration / degauss in tate / cocktail position

lets say they have some potential for homemade cabinets , best horizontal mounted . other 50/60 hertz sonys with the fe1 chassis are :


KV25C5A SONY
KV25C5B SONY
KV25C5D SONY
KV25C5E SONY
KV25C5K SONY
KV25C5R SONY
KV29C5A SONY
KV29C5B SONY
KV29C5D SONY
KV29C5E SONY
KV29C5K SONY
KV29C5R SONY
KV21C5B SONY
KV21C5D SONY
KV21C5E SONY
KV21C5K SONY
KV21C5R SONY
KV21M5D SONY
KV21T5D SONY
KV21X5A SONY
KV21X5B SONY
KV21X5D SONY
KV21X5E SONY
KV21X5K SONY
KV21X5L SONY
KV21X5R SONY
KV21X5U SONY
KV25K5A SONY
KV25K5B SONY
KV25K5D SONY
KV25K5E SONY
KV25K5U SONY
KV29K5A SONY
KV29K5B SONY
KV29K5D SONY
KV29K5E SONY
KV29K5U SONY
KV29X5 SONY
KV29X5B SONY
KV29X5D SONY
KV29X5E SONY
KV29X5A SONY
KV29X5K SONY
KV29X5L SONY
KV29X5R SONY
KV29X5U SONY
KV25M2D SONY
KV25M2A SONY
KV25T2A SONY
KV25T2B SONY
KV25T2D SONY
KV25M2E SONY
KV25T2E SONY
KV25T2K SONY
KV25M2K SONY
KV25T2R SONY
KV25T2L SONY
KV25T2U SONY
KV25X5 SONY
KV25R2D SONY
KV25R2K SONY
KV29B5E SONY
KV25B5E SONY
KV25X5A SONY
KV25X5B SONY
KV25X5D SONY
KV25X5E SONY
KV25X5K SONY
KV25X5L SONY
KV25X5R SONY
KV25X5U SONY
KV25R2A SONY
KV25R2E SONY
KV29C5 SONY









« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 06:24:22 pm by apfelanni »

Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #312 on: October 19, 2011, 08:06:18 am »
Nice write up apfelanni!

Last weekend I found an old Sony "color monitor" on the side of the road that was like a cross between a TV and a computer monitor. No VGA port but, instead, a SCART port and an RGB pinout. There was also some kind of DIN socket. The screen had a sheet of glass across the front and the whole package was SUPER heavy despite that fact the screen must only have been around 20 inches. It was so heavy that it actually had metal carry handles!

Unfortunately I couldn't get a decent picture from it (think the SCART connection was dirty - jiggling helped) and because I already had 6 other TVs in my lounge room it had to go back out on the street. I should have taken a picture. Oh well.

I also found a weird old Blaupunkt. Very unique looking TV. Picture was quite good except for some ghosting on the reds. Again, I didn't keep it because the Grundig and Loewe are much better. I did takes some photos of the Blaupunkt though so I'll upload soon.

Thanks for the tips re: Sony. I'll keep an eye out for those models!

PS - I dropped off a Loewe Xelos at the op shop on Sunday and they had 2 Bang and Olufsens in the back room. I hassled the lady but she wouldn't let me have them because they weren't "sorted" yet. I went back 2 days later and they were gone without a trace. Damn. :(
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Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #313 on: October 21, 2011, 01:34:17 pm »
Slight update - I got a cheap standard resolution Jamma PCB, tested it and it did produce a very imppresive picture on the TV.

I thought it was obviously a problem with the original PCB until I was advised that the Scart Hack TV setup only works with standard resolution PCB, is this right?
(The original PCB is a medium resolution PCB)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 05:16:03 pm by Jollywest »

apfelanni

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #314 on: October 23, 2011, 02:26:55 am »
24 k wont work . lowres only .

Jollywest

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #315 on: October 23, 2011, 03:41:57 am »
24 k wont work . lowres only .

Thanks for confirming  :cheers:

Paradroid

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Loewe TVs... again!
« Reply #316 on: October 29, 2011, 11:49:28 pm »
Another update on my search for the ultimate MAME/SCART TV…

I picked up a Loewe CT1170 television on Friday for AUD $10. It was covered in dust and cobwebs but I shined it up with a micro fibre cloth and thoroughly cleaned the insides with an air compressor. Man, this is probably the best unit I tried yet! Great colors, no dot crawl, geometry is very good (not perfect, but close), convergence is excellent and the image is incredibly solid. I also love the retro look of this TV! All black, no gimmicky design tricks.

Overall, I can safely say that any Loewe with an E3000 chassis should be excellent for retro gaming. I've tried a Contur, Profil, Profil Plus and now the CT1170. All have produced a true image without the artifacts that newer Loewe chassis and software revisions introduce. I just wish I'd kept the Calida with an E3000 chassis I found on the sidewalk six months ago... :( I turfed it because it didn't have a remote and I couldn't get an image with PowerStrip. Of course, Soft-15kHz came into my life after that and I'm sure that TV would have been killer. Oh well. The search continues...

Attached is a a snap of the CT1170 and joystick setup on the workbench.
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MonMotha

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #317 on: November 13, 2011, 04:22:27 pm »
FWIW, there should NEVER be dot crawl on an RGB (or any format that has separate luminance and chroma information) signal.  Dot crawl is caused by imperfect separation of the luma/chroma portions of composite video.

Paradroid

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #318 on: November 13, 2011, 04:29:58 pm »
Dot crawl is caused by imperfect separation of the luma/chroma portions of composite video.

Would that suggest that the Loewe models that exhibit dot crawl are converting the RGB signal internally before their image processing stages?
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MonMotha

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Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
« Reply #319 on: November 13, 2011, 04:48:20 pm »
Dot crawl is caused by imperfect separation of the luma/chroma portions of composite video.

Would that suggest that the Loewe models that exhibit dot crawl are converting the RGB signal internally before their image processing stages?

Could be.  It may have something to do with the fact that RGB on SCART was actually intended to be used for OSD overlay over a conventional composite video signal - using it for an actual video source just always keeps it in "overlay mode" - so the TV may be internally generate a composite signal that it would send on to later circuitry.  I'd think this would be pretty obvious, though; it would look more like composite than RGB.

It's also possible that you're seeing something similar that looks kinda like dot crawl but actually isn't.  Some deinterlacers and upscalers can do weird things on sharp lines in computer graphics.  Framerate conversions can also be problematic, depending on how they're done.

The wikipedia article on "Dot Crawl" has a picture that's pretty much a dead ringer for NTSC dot crawl, but I don't know if PAL dot crawl may look a bit different due to the phase alternation (again, not that it should be relevant on RGB). Is that what you're seeing on these things, or is it just more general "smudging"?

  
 

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