The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls

Main => Monitor/Video Forum => Topic started by: Level42 on March 03, 2008, 04:27:06 pm

Title: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on March 03, 2008, 04:27:06 pm
I've seen more and more questions about how to use the SCART connector that is present on all European TV's in relation to our hobby.

This posting is a try to answer all these questions for once and for all. I bet I'll fail, but it's worth the try :)

What is SCART ?

Not the official text but here goes:
SCART is a connector that was designed by the French. In a short moment of brilliance, the government in France made it mandatory for every TV set sold there to have the SCART connector. This sort of forced all big TV makers to include a SCART connector on every TV that was shipped to Europe (or built there).

SCART is NOT (I REPEAT: NOT) a definition of signals.

Instead it bundles a range of analog signals that are (were) commonly used in relation to TV's in ONE standardized connector.

SCART usually incorporates the following video signals:
1) Composite video
2) S-video
3) RGB video

I say usually because not all devices support all signals. F.I., a VHS videorecorder, by nature, does not support RGB signals. That is because the video is recorded on the tape with a signal that is simular to composite video.

Every TV however, should have at least one SCART connector that allows input of any of these signals.

(SCART also supports audio signals of course, but I leave them out of this thread, because they will be rarely used in our hobby, most people connect speakers to the PC running Mame, or in original cabs, the installed audio amplifier and speakers are used).


What is RGB video ?

RGB video is the most basic form of video signal you can have in relation to CRT driven color TV's. There are separate wires for each basic color Red Green and Blue, and one for the sync signal. Because of this, none of the signals can influence each-other. In good quality SCART cables, every signal line has it's own shield (return or ground)to further prevent cross-talk between them and other wires.

Every color TV in the world is decoding whatever signal (HF through Antenna, composite video etc.) is input to it into this basic RGB signal, before it feeds it to the CRT. So, if we use the RGB signal on the SCART connector ALL the decoding electronics in the TV are by-passed, ensuring the best possible picture quality. By doing this we use the TV exactly like a "real" arcade/open frame monitor.
There is NO quality difference in picture between a "real" arcade monitor or a TV that is used with RGB.

How about the other signals ?
Well, first there was Composite video. The one (and only) advantage of this signal is that you can transport it through a single wire (and a shield). To make this work, all the color info AND sync info is combined into one signal. The TV will have to decode this signal into all the seperate colors and sync again. This process causes a significant loss in picture quality. Composite video is NOT recommended to be used for our hobby because of this.

Then there's S-video. With S-video you have one wire for the sync, and one wire for ALL the colors. So the colors are still combined. This still requires decoding in the TV, and still introduces a reduction in quality. Outside of Europe, this is often used in our hobby, because only European TV's have SCART.
I would not recommend it, because RGB is the best option to choose, and it's present out the outputs of your PC or original game PCB.

OK,OK, I've read all the theory, I want to know how to use it !

Yeah, yeah, it can't hurt to have a little theory to understand what we're using.

OK, now, almost all PC's have a RGB - VGA output.  So, it should be easy connect it to a SCART connector, right ?
Right ! Well, the physical connection is easy. However, a VGA card outputs video at much higher frequencies than a TV can handle. In our hobby, most often, we want to use 15 kHz output, as the vast majority of (classic) arcade games use(d) this frequency.

There are two main ways to get 15 kHz out of your computer:
1) Get the Ultimarc ArcadeVGA card. Basicaly, this is a normal VGA card, but it has an "adapted" BIOS that will allow the card to only run in 15 kHZ. So from the first start-up, you will see everything incl. the boot-up screens
2) Use a software tool like http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.0) This will let the output of a regular VGA card run in 15 kHz.

So, when we have eiter up and running OR we are using an original arcade game PCB that's running 15 kHz ( the vast majority of the classics), we are ready to wire it up !

First PC to SCART:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=96781;image)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=96785;image)


When we look at the picture it's simple to see that each color has it's own wire AND return.
This is also true for the sync signal (Do not confuse composite sync with composite video. Composite sync is quite simply the horizontal and vertical sync signals combined. There is NO quality difference in using separate or composite SYNC signals).

So, you think you're ready ? No.

We have to "tell" the SCART connector that we are inputting an external video signal to it and that the TV should select the AV-mode. This is a great feature of SCART, because without adjusting your TV, you can have external devices automatically select the right setting. Some TV's even come out of stand-by mode when this signal is first applied....

We can do this by supplying a Voltage between 9,5V and 12V to pin 8. Since computers have plenty of 12V outputs, and the same applies for most of the original arcade PCB's, it's easy to connect a +12V lead to pin 8.

Now, we have selected the AV-mode but we also have to "tell" the TV what kind of video signal we are supplying.  This can be done by providing a voltage between 1V and 3V.
Now, that are voltages that we don't find (easily) on PC's or original arcade PCB's. However it's very easy to do it. We take a +5V supply (easy on PC connectors, red wire) and put a resistor in series with the +5V supply. This will lower the voltage to about 2V.

(Note: In the past I've uploaded a schematic on this forum in various threads from my good friend Darthnuno. This does not show the 100 Ohms resistor. On some TV's this still works. However, I've encountered a more recent TV and on this I could not get the TV to work, the cause was this missing resistor.... so stay in spec and use the resistor !!!!)


This schematic shows how to hook up both votages from a standard PC connector. On an original arcade PCB, you will need to find a +12V and +5V point yourself, which shouldn't be that hard, often there are test-points where you can pick it up from....
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=96783;image)


The included pictures are from:

http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart

saint's edit -- made images local to BYOAC
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: grantspain on March 03, 2008, 06:18:40 pm
good stuff :cheers:
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Mr Wilson on March 08, 2008, 07:04:39 am
i'm using a s-video to scart at the mo its a all in one not one with a scart block can i force this to go to av1  by putting 12v on pin 8 of the scart?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on March 08, 2008, 04:35:49 pm
I don't think so.

This is quoted from wikipedia:

There is no switching signal to indicate S-Video. Some TVs can auto-detect the presence of the S-Video signal but more commonly the S-Video input needs to be manually selected.

....

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Mr Wilson on March 09, 2008, 03:25:15 pm
i've improved my soldering skills and made it now ;D i've just got to  get a 100 ohms resistor tomorrow can you still use your front end if its running at 15khz?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Mr Wilson on March 09, 2008, 04:36:47 pm
try'd the lead with no power to it,just to see if it worked and got nothing except  sound turned off pc connected s-video back up turned it on and i only get the boot up screen then it goes blank tried vga to old monitor same thing have i f*cked up my graphics card??? :angry:
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: FhM on March 09, 2008, 07:26:26 pm
Have you tried booting to safe mode by pressing F8 during boot just to rule out a software problem? Oh and do you have to run at 15khz to use this cable?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on March 10, 2008, 03:52:34 pm
Yes If you see the boot-up screen it sounds to me like you're not running a tool like Soft-15kHz (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.0) to have the VGA card run at 15 kHz. If you're not using this (or an ArcadeVGA card) the TV will probably shut down to protect itself because it detects out of spec (too high) syncing frequencies.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: ahofle on March 10, 2008, 07:46:34 pm
This is a great guide and should be stickied (or at least added to the wiki)!   :cheers:
It also makes me mad that US televisions don't have an SCART port.  :hissy:
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on March 14, 2008, 07:11:54 am
This is a great guide and should be stickied (or at least added to the wiki)!   :cheers:
It also makes me mad that US televisions don't have an SCART port.  :hissy:

Thanks, and indeed, you should be angry.....:D
On the other hand, this single advantage that we have overhere never will outweigh all the advantages that you guys in the US have in this hobby...

I'm always prepared to ship a European TV with SCART (and I'l MAKE the cable for you) if you ship me back a nice Ms.Pac Man upright :D
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on April 07, 2008, 02:26:46 pm
Geeez.....was working on my Centipede the other day and suddenly realised that I hadn't included the resistors in the RGB lines when you use the schematics.

The thing is, that real Arcade PCBs deliver a TTL level video signal. This can be 5Vtt. A VGA card, will only supply 1V.  Following this, you can use the schematics like indicated with a PC (VGA) connection.

However, if you want to connect a real arcade PCB (OR f.i. a J-Pac) you will need to add a resistor in series with each color signal. I've found 150 Ohms to be a good value.

I will try to re-write everything to make it clear what to do for PC versus arcade PCB situations....but I'm limited in time this week....
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 11, 2008, 04:56:03 am
I've done countless VGA-SCART conversions for TVs. 

This includes a couple of JAMMA-SCART setups for arcade cabs, to allow you to take the PC/JPAC out and plug a JAMMA PCB in. The monitors I used were Sony professional video monitors ("broadcast" monitors, used in TV studios).  If you want to do this, you will need to use resistors on the RGB signals (but not the sync).

I tested a few different resistor values, and found that 75ohms seemed to work the best in this instance.  100ohm resistors work fine as well, but the colours were slightly duller (but acceptable).  75ohm resistors gave superior results.  The clients that ended up with these systems were both very happy.

For comparison, I also had another cab running with one of these Sony monitors, but with a straight VGA-SCART cable.

I tested these JAMMA-SCART systems using video output from a JPAC, which boosts the video signals to levels appropriate for an arcade monitor.  In fact, the RGB signals were normally around 1.2-2v from the JPAC (not 5v), but under 1v after applying resistors.

Sync signals from the JPAC came through at about 3.3-3.5v, and there was no need to put a resistor on this signal line (I tried, but it gave inferior results, such as poor sync at the top of the screen).  Note that actual arcade PCB voltages may vary somewhat.

Regarding the 5v input to pin 16 for RGB-AV switching - TVs vary with their need for this.  Mostly, I've done it by just running a short wire from pin 20 (ie sync) to pin 16, and this has worked fine.  I'd recommend to people that they try this method first, because it is much simpler.  However, some TVs are a bit fussier, and I've had to run a separate 5v signal with a resistor on it (much as you've shown in your diagram).  The reason (I believe) is that the sync signal voltage will actually vary a bit, and this variation is unacceptable for certain TVs.  The brands I've needed to do this with tended to be TEAC TVs in particular, although you may find that other individual TVs of any brand may require this.  However, I've never encountered the need to run a separate 5v signal to pin 16 for any LOEWE, SONY or PHILLIPS SCART TVs.  It seems that the better quality TVs are more forgiving.

Regarding the need for a 12v signal to pin 8, there is no consistency here.  I once had a Phillips 29" TV, dead from the dump with failed tuner, but it worked fine as an arcade monitor once I hooked up a cable with a 12v switching signal.  once again, TEAC TVs tend to require this 12v switching signal.  As you can probably guess, I try to avoid TEAC TVs nowadays.  They are a poorer-quality brand anyway.

I apologise for the long post.  I should probably write this up somewhere in a more structured way ....

Zeb.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on April 15, 2008, 01:22:59 pm
I tried to stick to the standards as they were defined. This because it will work for everyone. I know some TV's accept 5V instead of 3,5 V. But because I wasn't aware of it, I lost a couple of hours on finding out why my next TV I worked on (Which was newer) DIDN"T work....

So, stick to the standards, and you'll be 100% sure it works.
 
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Constructacon on April 15, 2008, 05:09:17 pm
Hi I'm new here and trying to build my first MAME cabinet.

I'm in Australia and fluked getting a TV with a SCART connector. After reading this I consider myself very lucky. I'm trying to make a VGA-SCART cable but am wondering about the SCART pin 21. Where does it get wired to? It says ground so is jumping it accross to pin 18 (0v) an acceptable alternative?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on April 16, 2008, 04:26:53 am
Pin 21 is simply the outer shield of the cable and connector. It's the metal edge of the connector.
The purpose is to shield of any signals from outside the cable to interfere.

So far, I haven't bothered to connect it. (Classic) arcade video signals were low-res and cab builders didn't do any shielding of the wires etc. So there's no real need to do it now.

Since you're making VGA to SCART, you could connect the outer shield of the VGA cable to it. Won't harm.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 16, 2008, 07:45:13 am
So, stick to the standards, and you'll be 100% sure it works.
 

Agreed.  However, given the extra difficulty and complication of adding power supply from a molex connector, I would still suggest that one tries doing it by just jumping a wire from pin 20 to pin 16 first.  Modify the cable if it doesn't work after that.

I actually keep two types of VGA-SCART cable on hand for testing newly acquired TVs - one with the 5v & 12v power supply via molex connector, and one without.

To put this another way, I've quoted people $40 to make the simple cable and $60 for the complex (or 100%) version, reflecting the extra costs & time (these are bargain basement rates for "mame-brothers", esp. considering the time involved). In most cases, one only needs the simple version.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on April 19, 2008, 07:29:02 am
I'd like to point out that this cable only works if the card outputs COMPOSITE Sync.
If it doesn't (like with Soft-15kHz) you'll need to connect VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14 to SCART Pin 20.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 20, 2008, 07:39:41 pm
I'd like to point out that this cable only works if the card outputs COMPOSITE Sync.
If it doesn't (like with Soft-15kHz) you'll need to connect VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14 to SCART Pin 20.

Good point, SailorSat!

Note that if the video card outputs negative sync on both horizontal & vertical (H&V), then you won't have any problems with just twisting the wires from VGA pins 13 & 14 together and connecting them to SCART pin 20 to make the cable.  Every ATI-based card I've used outputs negative on both VGA 13 & 14.

The ArcadeVGA cards work this way - just twist the wires together and you'll be fine.

However, if your card outputs some combination of positive and negative sync then you could have a problem.  NVidia cards seem to allow you to change the sync polarity,  so it is worthwhile checking this for your particular card.  Make both H&V negative if possible.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on April 20, 2008, 09:00:52 pm
Both ATI and NVIDIA can be configured, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Also in Soft-15kHz all syncs are negative.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Mr Kray on April 22, 2008, 11:31:02 pm
Hey guys,

I'm in Australia too and when I bought the TV for my cabinet in 2001 I did a lot of research to try and find a TV with SCART.. now I'm not sure if what I was told is true or if it was and has sinced changed but...

I was told by a number of retailers including specialist importers that almost every TV in Australia - that isn't imported from Europe - with SCART doesn't actually have true RGB, the RGB pins are just hooked up to the composite (or maybe s-video) input. This is due to the TVs all being manufactured in the same factory but then shipped off to different places; so for Australia they use the casing for all over the world but just put in a dodgy SCART port that is really no more than composite or s-video.

For this reason I just went for the S-Video... Although the TV I bought had SCART as well (I say had as I blew it up shortly after putting it in the cabinet! Now I just have a TV with s-video and composite  :banghead: )

Can anyone confirm this?

Mr Kray
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Bluedeath on April 28, 2008, 06:58:50 am
RGB and S-Video shares the pinout the tv determines  if you are using RGB by the voltage that the SCART receive on a specific pin (the one in the schematics for the cable).

from wikipedia:

"Two pins provide switching signals.

Pin 8, the switch signal pin, carries a low frequency (less than 50 Hz) signal from the source that indicates the type of video present.

0 V2 V means no signal, or internal bypass
4.5 V7 V (nominal 6 V) means a widescreen (16:9) signal
9.5 V12 V (nominal 12 V) means a normal (4:3) signal
Pin 16, the blanking signal pin, carries a signal from the source that indicates that the signal is either RGB or composite.

0 V0.4 V means composite.
1 V3 V (nominal 1 V) means RGB only.
The original specification defined pin 16 as a high frequency (up to 3 MHz) signal that blanked the composite video. The RGB inputs were always active and the signal 'punches holes' in the composite video. This could be used to overlay subtitles from an external Teletext decoder.

0 V0.4 V means composite with a transparent RGB overlay.
1 V3 V (nominal 1 V) RGB only.
There is no switching signal to indicate S-Video. Some TVs can auto-detect the presence of the S-Video signal but more commonly the S-Video input needs to be manually selected.

"

I suggest to use a 1.5v battery instead of the PC psu for RGB blanking.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 28, 2008, 01:52:11 pm
I was told by a number of retailers including specialist importers that almost every TV in Australia - that isn't imported from Europe - with SCART doesn't actually have true RGB, the RGB pins are just hooked up to the composite (or maybe s-video) input. This is due to the TVs all being manufactured in the same factory but then shipped off to different places; so for Australia they use the casing for all over the world but just put in a dodgy SCART port that is really no more than composite or s-video.
Mr Kray

I can confirm that this story put-up by retailers is a lie - mostly.

I have run RGB through SCART to countless TVs in Australia.  In just one case was the SCART input only good for composite (ie not RGB).  That was a mega-cheap "Goldstar" brand TV.  Goldstar always was a cheap brand, and this experience confirmed that fact.

Regarding s-video through SCART - usually TVs that accept s-video through SCART have multiple SCART ports, with one dedicated to s-video.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on May 22, 2008, 01:41:55 pm
So can u wire the scart plug up, so it can turn any TV set on when you power up the PC??
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on May 22, 2008, 08:31:53 pm
No
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on May 23, 2008, 04:38:21 am
So can u wire the scart plug up, so it can turn any TV set on when you power up the PC??
If you want to turn on the monitor with the rest of your cab simply put the mains connection of the TV behind the mains switch of your cab. I do it all the time. Then, because of the SCART selecting signals the TV will immediately switch to the SCART input.

Also there ARE TV's that will switch from stand-by to operating by these signals, but not all of them.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on May 23, 2008, 05:42:46 am
The Toshiba Tv im using only goes into standby when you turn it on via the plug
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on May 23, 2008, 06:44:56 am
The Toshiba Tv im using only goes into standby when you turn it on via the plug

OK, sorry for my short response earlier, but strictly speaking NO is the correct answer to your original question.  Single power switches for cabs are covered in many other threads on this forum and there are several different approaches, for which a dual-post single-throw switch (as Level42 suggests) is a possible option in some cases. However, I won't go into that here.

Get ready for a long post here - sorry.

Different TVs are, well, different.  So you have to work out what works for your TV .... which is easier said than done.  Here are some things to try.

1) If you can figure out how to access the service mode of your TV, you *might* be able to set it so that it can automatically come on when you apply power.  Service mode, as the name suggests, is designed so that only technicians can get to it.  Generally you need the original remote, and instructions from the service manual (the one techs get, NOT the user manual supplied with the TV).  To further complicate this, service manuals are generally not made available publicly, only to registered techs.  The reason for this is because you can completely screw the TV up through making wrong settings in the service mode, so be careful.

2) If you have the remote, try turning the TV off with the remote and then cycling the power off/on.  Then, when you turn it on, it might come on 'fully' (if you are lucky).  Some variation of this theme might work for your TV.

3) Some SCART TVs will come on into AUX mode if you have 12v applied to pin 8 (as Level42 suggests). 

4) If all else fails, you should be able to get the TV to come out of standby by pressing a channel button and/or the AUX button (perhaps labelled TV/AV).  A pain in the bum if you want to have a single power switch for your cab, but there you go.  If this is the case, and you are handy with a soldering iron, you could connect the button up to a momentary switch (eg standard arcade button) near your power switch, and press it just after you apply power to the cab.

Some power switches (including most standard TV power-on switches) include both a momentary switch (for signal voltages) as well as an always-on switch (for the mains voltage).  If you rig up an external power switch to your cab using one of these combined switches, then you *might* be able to use it to send a momentary signal through to your channel and/or AV button as you power the cab on.  I say *might* because you may actually have to wait for a second or two for the TV to power on before sending through the momentary signal to switch channel/AV mode, in which case you'll have to find another solution, perhaps involving a small capacitor (takes time to build up charge and therefore creates a delay before passing voltage through) or a relay.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on May 23, 2008, 01:02:39 pm
Thanks for the indepth info. I do have the service code for the service menu, but i dont recall seeing anything to do with 'auto power on' etc. I have one of those power safe power strips, so when i turn the PC on it powers up all the other compliances that are connect to the power strip. as said when using this it just puts the TV into standby and not actually turn it on, but it does automatically go to the AUX channel which is a help. Is their a chance of blowing my TV up if i do try connecting a 12v current to pin 8 on the scart plug?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on May 23, 2008, 09:16:59 pm
Is their a chance of blowing my TV up if i do try connecting a 12v current to pin 8 on the scart plug?

No - it is designed for this.  But you should also ground the 12v to pin 18, as shown in the diagram Level42's original post.

... it does automatically go to the AUX channel which is a help. 

However, it looks like you don't actually need to bother with it.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on May 24, 2008, 02:58:23 pm
Hmm, just took my scartlead apart ( i didnt mod it, i bought it) and pin 8 on the scart plug seems to be already soldered up to a yellow wire from the vga plug, which also has a resistor soldered from pin 8 to pin 16??. Does this mean its already having a 12volt supply to pin 8??
(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/321/img1845fh6.jpg)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on May 24, 2008, 09:38:38 pm
Lettuce, your cable must be relying on voltage from the VGA head on the video card.  It could only possibly be supplying 5v to SCART pin 8 as the VGA head doesn't output 12v.  Some VGA heads output 5v on pin 9.

ArcadeVGA cards put 5v to VGA pin 9, but I can't be sure of other manufacturers.  Many of the VGA cables I've seen, perhaps most of them, don't even both with a pin 9.  What video card do you use?

Depending upon your TV, 5v may be sufficient to trigger switching to AUX mode.  Technically 5v signals AUX modein 16:9, but if your TV doesn't do that then it probably will simply signal AUX mode.

Does your cable actually work?  I mean, so you get a PC picture on your Toshiba at all with this?

Also, as a BTW question - does this cable have an audio input plug to connect to your PC as well?  I ask this because the audio pins are wired up.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on May 25, 2008, 06:45:24 am
Many of the VGA cables I've seen, perhaps most of them, don't even both with a pin 9.  What video card do you use?
Im using a ArcadeVGA APG card :)

Depending upon your TV, 5v may be sufficient to trigger switching to AUX mode.  Technically 5v signals AUX modein 16:9, but if your TV doesn't do that then it probably will simply signal AUX mode.
The TV im using it a, Toshiba 28N33B, its not a widescreen set just 4:3. Ive looked on the ulitmarc site and says pin 9 does indeed give a 5volt current (im guessing pin 9 on the VGA end?), im guess as you said its why my TV switches to the AUX channel when turned out from standby

Does your cable actually work?  I mean, so you get a PC picture on your Toshiba at all with this?
When i first got it and tried it out the screen on the TV kept rolling so i had to resolder a wire i believe to stop this from happen, but i cant 100% remember as it was over 2 years ago. I did try it on another TV but i just got a black screen for some reason!? Just interested  , why did you ask if the cable actually works?

Also, as a BTW question - does this cable have an audio input plug to connect to your PC as well?  I ask this because the audio pins are wired up.
Yeah it does, but i never use them as im not getting sound form the TV itself


This from the Ultimarc site

"IMPORTANT: Our ArcadeVGA card outputs 5 volts on pin 9. If this pin is routed through your cable, make sure to insulate any cut wire to prevent shorting.
Be doubly sure about grounding whenever connecting monitors. Check the continuity with an ohm-meter of the monitor chassis to power-cord ground BEFORE connecting anything else up. Also double-check the isolating transformer is still connected (see below)."

So im guessing the cable i have is wired up to pin 9 on the vga end, im understand from reading the above that i dont need to have this pin 9 wired up to get a display??
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on May 25, 2008, 03:45:31 pm
pin 9 does indeed give a 5volt current (im guessing pin 9 on the VGA end?), im guess as you said its why my TV switches to the AUX channel when turned out from standby[/b]

Your TV may well switch to Aux mode anyway, even without the 5v signal.

When i first got it and tried it out the screen on the TV kept rolling so i had to resolder a wire i believe to stop this from happen, but i cant 100% remember as it was over 2 years ago. I did try it on another TV but i just got a black screen for some reason!? Just interested  , why did you ask if the cable actually works?

Two years ago, it might have been that you had to connect VGA pins 13 & 14 together to get the VSYNC input to stop the rolling. 

Could be any number of reasons why the cable didn't work with your other TV.

The reason why I asked about whether the cable works is because if your videocard doesn't output 5v on VGA pin 9, then your cable WOULD NOT WORK.

Your experience with the other TV is interesting.  I've wired up cables before with 5v -> SCART pin 8 -> 16 that have NOT WORKED on certain TVs.

As noted earler, I have a lot of success simply bridging SCART pin 20 (sync) -> SCART pin 16, and doing away with the 5v to pin 8 and the resistor bridge from pin 8 -> resistor -> 16 altogether.  Simpler, neater, works (most of the time).

So im guessing the cable i have is wired up to pin 9 on the vga end, im understand from reading the above that i dont need to have this pin 9 wired up to get a display??

For the way your cable is currently wired, you definitely need 5v from VGA pin 9.  However, you might be able to do away with it and bridge SCART pin 20 -> pin 16 instead (as discussed earlier in this thread).

Rather than hacking up your existing cable, I suggest that you make a new cable without the SCART pin 8 hooked to 5v, but with a bridged SCART 20 -> 16 instead and and try that.  Mostly, the latter version works better.  Personally, I have both types of cable on hand for testing new SCART TVs with.  Occasionally I even need to try a cable that has both 5v -> SCART pin8 and a SCART 20 -> 16 bridge, but that is pretty rare.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jox43w on June 05, 2008, 07:18:45 pm
hi

im inn the uk and im going to have a go at building a scart for my soft15hz card, it wont be in a cab its a media pc i want to use as a mame console if you like, can i get away with not supplying any voltages if i manualy select av with my remote?  also isit  ok to just twist the wires togeter because im not good at soldering. lol
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 06, 2008, 07:02:37 am
can i get away with not supplying any voltages if i manualy select av with my remote?

Yes, you'll be fine.

is it  ok to just twist the wires together because im not good at soldering. lol

Your cable will likely fall apart without soldering.  However, if you can get a new SCART header with blades in it, you can use small quick-connects and crimp them onto your wires.  But then, good crimping is another skill which you may not have ....

My advice:  practice your soldering technique.  ;D



Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Ummon on June 07, 2008, 06:09:59 pm
Aehn, neither's that hard, though crimping is easier if you have a crimper. Using plyers...well, that kinda blows.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jox43w on June 15, 2008, 09:45:18 am
i want to have a go at building one of these cables tomorrow but im slightly confused,

i will be using soft15hz and a standard uk scart tv, im confused about all the resiistors and supplyting voltages iv read a couple of other webpages on this and the didnt mention any resitors or adding extra power.

im unsure of what i should do. do i need to add resitors if im using soft15hz and a scart tv also my scart tv is widescreen, if i dont supply any voltages and i select av with my remote will my tv show the picture in widescreen?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jox43w on June 15, 2008, 09:53:26 am
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/callum.henderson/basement_boomera_000007.htm (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/callum.henderson/basement_boomera_000007.htm)

iv found this diagram which differs from the one here which is making me evern more confused  ???
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 15, 2008, 05:47:17 pm
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/callum.henderson/basement_boomera_000007.htm (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/callum.henderson/basement_boomera_000007.htm)

iv found this diagram which differs from the one here which is making me evern more confused  ???

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE ... heh, just joking, I couldn't help myself.

That diagram is wrong.  Follow the postings here.

If you want to avoid using resistors and voltage, follow my earlier suggestions (link SCART pin 20 -> pin 16) and use your remote to change to AV mode if necessary.  You should be fine.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 15, 2008, 10:48:06 pm
Quote
That diagram is wrong.  Follow the postings here.

Hmm.  On looking at that diagram again after some sleep (rather than 5am), the diagram is not wrong, but confusing. If you follow the numbers in brackets in the figure this fellow has used ("standard configuration"), then it corresponds to a standard SCART pinout.  What he/she has used is equivalent to linking pin 20 to pin 16, as I've suggested.  He/she has also put 12v to pin 8, to signal AV mode in 4:3 aspect ratio (12v may be unnecessary if your TV stays in AV mode after cycling the power on/off - or you could use your remote for this instead).
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on June 20, 2008, 03:02:03 pm
The one I posted has been tested (by me :) ) and works great. Follow the resistor version and you will be SURE it works. Follow anything else and it MAY work.

I personally want my TV to act as a monitor so I don't want to hassle with any remotes. Follow the first postings and the TV will work exactly as a monitor.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 20, 2008, 08:09:25 pm
The one I posted has been tested (by me :) ) and works great. Follow the resistor version and you will be SURE it works. Follow anything else and it MAY work.

It's also important to keep an open mind, understand the basic principles and that there is more than one way to skin a cat.  Some ways are easier than others :)  Simple solutions often work best - sometime better.  Sometimes a hybrid is best.

For example, I'm currently using a cable that has SCART pin 20 -> pin 16 for sync, but inputs 12v (via molex from PC) to pin 8 to allow auto AV switching (9-12v is the standard spec for AV mode in 4:3 ratio).  The beauty of this cable is that I can unplug the molex but still have a cable that works, though without auto switch to AV mode.  This is because it doesn't rely on 5v power supply for the RGB switching.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 20, 2008, 08:30:58 pm
ok so im getting bored with changing the battry everyday on my vga to scart cable! im not sure what cables inside my pc are what voltage etc but i have a few cables spare that i could run to my monitor will it be ok to use one from my pc power supply so i can trigger rgb mode on my tv?

You most likely don't need any PC voltage to switch your TV to RGB mode - try linking pin 20 -> pin 16 instead first with a really short piece of wire (about 1 inch, 2.5cm).  It's a lot simpler, no molex hacking required.  The more complicated solution is to wire up Molex 5v -> 100ohm resistor -> pin 16. 

If your TV doesn't auto-switch into AV mode (AV mode is not the same thing as RGB mode, but I'm not sure if you mean this) when you turn it on, and you don't want to press buttons on the TV or remote to make it happen, then you might need to run 12v to pin 8.  5v might do it, but this isn't certain.

If you need to, buy a molex splitter cable and use that rather than chopping up cables from your PC power supply.  Yellow = 12v, red = 5v, the two black ones are ground (it doesn't matter which you use as they are common at the PC). 
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: WunderCade on July 06, 2008, 01:12:42 am
So, what would be the U.S. equivalent be (in terms of TV specs) to Europe's SCART? An RGB television? Many TV in the US have RGB inputs...we call them "Component Inputs" (I think).?.

The Component Input wires are Red/Green/Blue, so I am wondering if it that input could be modded similarly to SCART.

Or, perhaps we're just screwed over here. :dunno
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on July 06, 2008, 04:32:24 am
Nope.
Component Video is something complety different, though there may be pretty cheap (and simple) RGB-to-Component Converters.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 07, 2008, 04:01:36 am
I do feel sorry for my US mame-brothers & sisters.

The main difference between component and RGB is that component runs the sync over two of the signal inputs, instead of having them separated.  This is roughly the extent of my knowledge on this.  You need some kind of black box or a keen electronics mind to convert and RGB signal into component.  I don't think that any of the black-boxes you can buy are cheap though.

If you have an ATI video card (certain types), you can buy an adapter (~$30, maybe cheaper off ebay or somewhere like that) designed specifically to output to component TVs.  It is meant to work only with ATI cards, but I have no idea whether it can work with anything else.  I have one, and tested it some time ago using Powerstrip.  It looked fine, *almost* as good as pure RGB+sync.  Therefore, it should work fine with Soft15khz (you might want to look at the Soft15khz thread or elsewhere on this forum for more info).

It would be interested to see a circuit diagram of how to convert RGB+sync -> component, if someone with the know-how were to post it.


Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: ahofle on July 07, 2008, 01:52:36 pm
If you have an ATI video card (certain types), you can buy an adapter (~$30, maybe cheaper off ebay or somewhere like that) designed specifically to output to component TVs.  It is meant to work only with ATI cards, but I have no idea whether it can work with anything else.  I have one, and tested it some time ago using Powerstrip.  It looked fine, *almost* as good as pure RGB+sync.  Therefore, it should work fine with Soft15khz (you might want to look at the Soft15khz thread or elsewhere on this forum for more info).

Don't you have to run at 640x480 if using the DVI to component adapter?  I'm not sure if using Soft15khz would matter if you have to output a 480i or 480p signal eventually anyway.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 07, 2008, 08:58:42 pm
Don't you have to run at 640x480 if using the DVI to component adapter?  I'm not sure if using Soft15khz would matter if you have to output a 480i or 480p signal eventually anyway.

No - you can output at whatever resolution you can choose, not just 640x480.  Yes, it does squeeze it into 480i, but the result was much better than, say, your normal TV out from a video card.  It won't work without some software to allow you to output at 15.7khz though - you would need to use Soft15khz or Powerstrip or something else.

Anyway, it was some time ago that I did this (I was experimenting, and it was with Powerstrip), and there are discussions elsewhere about output to component input TVs which may be better informed :)

At the moment, I don't even own a component-input TV because RGB input is much easier and better.  ;D
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: mchay on July 08, 2008, 02:01:08 pm
I am experiencing some problems with the VGA->SCART cable I've just made. The colors seem fine, but the picture keeps running up/down. I've installed soft15kHz which functions fine when connected to the J-PAC and the arcade monitor - but I also tweaked the monitors v-hold. Is there a such setting on older (1998) Sony TVs that I do not know about and cannot find? Or what have i done wrong. Any ideas?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on July 08, 2008, 02:17:08 pm
Try connecting VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: mchay on July 08, 2008, 02:24:15 pm
Try connecting VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14.

I've connected 10 and 13 - as shown in the diagram. Is that incorrect?

EDIT: Where is Pin 14 mentioned?

HURRA: I connected Pin 14 to Pin 20 and it all stod clearly :-)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 08, 2008, 09:50:15 pm
Try connecting VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14.

I've connected 10 and 13 - as shown in the diagram. Is that incorrect?

No.  VGA pin 10 should be connected to ground, or SCART pin 17.

Quote
EDIT: Where is Pin 14 mentioned?

It isn't in the original diagram!  It conveniently misses this   :dizzy:   as the original author of that diagram (who was not the poster) was using a video card that output composite sync to pin 13. 

Most video cards will require pins 13 & 14 to be connected (ie, twist the wires together).

Quote
HURRA: I connected Pin 14 to Pin 20 and it all stod clearly :-)

You have effectively connected pins 13 & 14 now.  Just make sure that you connect pin 10 to SCART ground, otherwise your picture quality will suffer.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: mchay on July 09, 2008, 02:20:31 am
I couldn't understand it, until I searched the internet for others who have made a VGA->SCART cable. I could then see that I was missing a cable. After soldering that on in both ends, I was up and running. It looks great. Can't wait to get the TV mounted in the cab instead of the ~20" arcade monitor.

Now I just have to find out how to enter the service menu on the old Sony TV. Can't seem to find the manual online thoug. The picture is slightly out of the picture in the bottom and I think that you can correct that in the service menu.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: G1zm0 on July 11, 2008, 04:59:17 am
i wired up a scart lead same way as described in the topic, with the 12v and resistor inline for the 3 v
ita a phillips 21" widescreen tv im using as a vertical monitor in a cab.
ive a avga 1 card (agp)

i hooked this up to tv, and bare pc (just mb,cpu,mem and card)

switched on and i got black screen and white lines running on it fastly.(post bios screen with error as no hd installed)

i tryed with the power connected and disconnected.

any ideas what i am doing wrong??


Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 11, 2008, 05:49:23 am
fFirstly, if you do the resistor method then you should use 5v, not 12v!

Secondly, an easier way is to just use a small wire hook pin 20 over to pin 16.  No resistor required.  The sync voltage will signal RGB mode.  Then use the 12v to pin 8 to signal AV mode.

Thirdly, it might not work with a widescreen TV.  I tried it once with my Panasonic 76cm and got the picture flashing on and off quickly.  I didn't get to explore this further, because my godson had an ice-party in my house while I was overseas and my TV + a bunch of computer gear got stolen, so now I don't have that widescreen TV with SCART input anymore  :'( 

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on July 11, 2008, 06:21:17 am
I didn't get to explore this further, because my godson had an ice-party in my house while I was overseas and my TV + a bunch of computer gear got stolen, so now I don't have that widescreen TV with SCART input anymore  :'(

:o sh!t
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: G1zm0 on July 11, 2008, 09:48:38 am
sorry it was the 5v line i put resistor onto. is it anything to do with the sync? should  i twist wires and put to pin 20?

it looks like a widescreen tv but it doesnt give a 4:3 option so i guess its ordinary.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 11, 2008, 09:56:49 am
sorry it was the 5v line i put resistor onto. is it anything to do with the sync? should  i twist wires and put to pin 20?

it looks like a widescreen tv but it doesnt give a 4:3 option so i guess its ordinary.


Well, I've never heard of a 21" widescreen TV :)

Yes, you need to twist wires from pins VGA pins 13 & 14 to SCART pin 20, which the original diagram doesn't show.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 11, 2008, 10:54:10 am
I didn't get to explore this further, because my godson had an ice-party in my house while I was overseas and my TV + a bunch of computer gear got stolen, so now I don't have that widescreen TV with SCART input anymore  :'(

:o sh!t

Ah well, at least the mame cab wasn't touched - that would have really hurt!  What really hurt was stuff like the condom wrappers and cigarette papers in my 4yo daughters bed, the food thrown into the bookcase.  Oh, and that my car got stolen (recovered thankfully).  The experience shattered my ability to trust anybody.  Anyway, that was nearly 2 years ago - heck, he'll be out of jail next month (he did some other stuff as well, but enough about that!  Ice sucks, turns normal people into arseholes and makes your teeth fall out as well.  Avoid it!

Anyway, back on topic - that time with the widescreen Panasonic TV got an image, but the image flashed on and off pretty quickly.  It was the only time my cable connecting pin 20 to 16 didn't work.  As noted, I didn't get a chance to test it with a "5v+resistor" style cable.  Andy Warne seemed to think that it might be to do with the fact that it was a widescreen, rather than the cable I was using. 
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Ummon on July 12, 2008, 11:56:47 pm
Oh, ice, like meth. Grimace. I don't think about trust. I think about whether I want anybody touching my stuff while I'm not around. (Or maybe at all.) Default answer is 'no', and generally includes family. Makes and keeps things tidy.

Back on a little here, I was talking with TOK about component video and he said that MaLa natively supports what it calls 'lo res mode 640x480'. From within MaLa, right-click and select options, and then it's GUI>display. I haven't messed with it, but it's sorta interesting.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on July 13, 2008, 09:08:39 am
Ok werid problem with my Scart & TV setup, since i have first used this TV when ive turned it on its always turn straight over to the AV channel. Back last week i disconnected the scart cable from my ArcadeVGA card to try out my new monitor i bought, after testing the monitor and removing/uninstalling the Tri-Sync Utility driver (as this doesnt work for TV sets) i hooked back up my scart lead from my TV to the ArcadeVGA card, now for some strange reason when i turn on my TV now it does not automatically go to the AV channel i have to select it via the remote control!. Any ideas why this has happened?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 13, 2008, 01:59:33 pm
The issue is probably with your TV, not the SCART cable.

As we can recall from before, you have 5v -> SCART pin 8 -> resistor (drop to ~1.5v) -> pin 16.  If you didn't have the 5v to pin 8, then you wouldn't get 1.5v to pin 16, and therefore you wouldn't get a picture at all.  Therefore, you have 5v at pin 8. 

Clearly, then, 5v is not sufficient to trigger your TV to switch to AV mode.

If your TV powered on to AV before, but not now, then it is most likely because your TV was remembering the setting.  Therefore, you need to make it remember it again.  Try swithcing it to AV mode with the remote, then turn it off with the remote.  Then power down, and turn it on again from cold.  This might get it to remember the AV mode setting.

Otherwise, you would have to try adapting your cable or making a new one.  The new one should run 12v (via molex) to pin 8, and link pin 20 -> pin 16 with a short wire.

If the new cable doesn't work at all (but it should work), then try running 5v (from the same molex) -> 100ohm resistor -> pin 16. 
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: G1zm0 on July 17, 2008, 06:29:06 am
got a good picture after trying the lead, but colours arent as vibrent as they should be, is this to do with the 100 ohm resistor, should i make it a 75 one? to take it from the 5 volts to 3 volts?

ive a prob with avga res on the tv as well , see my other post in the video section if someone could advise on that
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 17, 2008, 06:48:29 am
got a good picture after trying the lead, but colours arent as vibrent as they should be, is this to do with the 100 ohm resistor, should i make it a 75 one? to take it from the 5 volts to 3 volts?

The voltage to SCART pin 16 is only there to trigger RGB mode.  Like binary, it is either on or off, there is no half-way.  It will have no effect on colour brightness.

However, putting resistors on the R-G-B lines WILL make your colours less vibrant.  Make sure that you don't do that unless you have a good reason.

Referring to your other post, have you tried setting switchres=1 in the mame.ini file? Make sure that any relevant [gamename].ini files have this set properly too.  Running games in 640x480 will make the colours seem less vibrant than they could be.  You can set this as a default game option in MameUI, if that is what you are using.

Otherwise, it might be that you haven't installed the drivers correctly; or even the wrong drivers, perhaps.  If quickres only gives you 640x480, then this might well be the case.  Have another look.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: G1zm0 on July 17, 2008, 11:46:06 am
thanx for info, there is no resistors in the rgb line, the avga case,
i installed the drivers that came with the card, its the windows bootscreen that flickers and says 640x480

i am using mala as front end ( need to read how to rotate this so its always vertical) was going to use atomicfe but didnt set up for me.

im a novice at doing all this and getting complicated, hopefullt persiverance will off, ive never said but it it wasnt for this site i would have been sitting with bits and nothing done.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 20, 2008, 03:54:03 am
Well, it looks like your SCART cable is working anyway.

Try searching the forums or putting a post in the general part of the forum (there is heaps of stuff out there about AVGA cards and frontends), so that others might give you some answers too.  Looks like you have a bunch of questions.

You might need to re-install drivers too.  Give this a go.  Use the "cat-uninstaller.exe" first (download from ATI) to make sure you clean out any ATI drivers already on your system.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: FhM on July 25, 2008, 05:39:48 pm
I'd like to point out that this cable only works if the card outputs COMPOSITE Sync.
If it doesn't (like with Soft-15kHz) you'll need to connect VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14 to SCART Pin 20.

I think this information should go at the top with the rest. I have just fallen foul to this and fixed it this way. Here is a vid for reference. Feel free to use it as an example:

[youtube]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RdIls_mB0lA[/youtube]
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: FhM on July 26, 2008, 09:02:57 am
Ok now I look closely at mine it seems to be flickering a lot with VGA to SCART. I have noticed the colours and such look a lot better but this flickering means the composite is better overall. It also strangely chops off the top and bottom of the screen which I assume I will have to find the TVs service mode to adjust?

Has anyone any ideas what I can do about the flickering?
I am using:
Soft 15khz
Nvidia 5900

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on July 26, 2008, 09:09:18 am
What resolution do you run the game in?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 27, 2008, 02:41:17 am
I'd like to point out that this cable only works if the card outputs COMPOSITE Sync.
If it doesn't (like with Soft-15kHz) you'll need to connect VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14 to SCART Pin 20.

I think this information should go at the top with the rest. I have just fallen foul to this and fixed it this way.

I second that.  But you'd need to ask the OP to change the post, and the diagram as well.  However, if one reads through the thread then you'll see what to do.  You'll also find out that there are other ways to do the VGA-SCART cable, which may work better depending upon your circumstances.

One of these days I'll get around to writing up a web page or wiki on how to do it.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: G1zm0 on July 29, 2008, 05:38:32 am
hi still cant get good colours on my tv. the reds are yellows ect but with a dvd player plugged in the colours are there so its not tv.

i am running avga 1,
i was thinking if i were to make a lead up that went from the jpac i am using to the monitor, and from avga to the jpac, and use the video amp on the jpac, would that give me better colours or wouldthat be a wast of time?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on July 29, 2008, 11:30:34 am
Hm... Display a test image.

(http://images.arianchen.de/test.png)

If your red actually displays as yellow, then you got a short on RED and GREEN.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: G1zm0 on July 30, 2008, 04:41:44 pm
i think maby the avga isnt giving enough voltage for the tv colours, maby i need 3 volts.

if i connected through the jpac would that boost the colours
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 31, 2008, 02:22:41 am
It's unlikely to be about AVGA voltage ... I'd go with the shorted wiring theory.  Check your wiring and soldering.

Also, I recommend using a multimeter to test resistance on your VGA cable.  If it is more than a few ohms, then scrap it, find a new cable and start again.  I've had to do this a few times.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: G1zm0 on July 31, 2008, 05:32:26 am
tested for shorts , everything buzed out ok, i thought i had a short but turned out to be the 2 syncs that were tristed together.soldering ok to

i take it its nothing to do with the 100 ohm resistor? making it lower wouldnt do anything would it?

i used meter to do resistance on cable,  all low about 1.x

going to try adding it to jpac and using its video amp

update:
ive took another cable apart , what do i do with the rgb return wires?
i take it these are grounds? so would i just connect them all together to video ground? or do i just disreguard them?

where do i connect the shield wire to?

do i need to add resistors in line with the rgb as ive read in a previous post in this section or is it ok to try without these
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: G1zm0 on July 31, 2008, 05:54:14 pm
ok heres whats happend.

the new cable i used was female so i could attatch to the male (scart part)

i soldered the rgb,comp sync to the parts on the jamma connector, plugged the m & f together, put lead from avga to jpac.

switched on and nothing, just blank screen. :banghead:

disconnected the leads and put the old one on, nothing all i get is a few flashes on the tv, but dvd player works ok

havent tested yet to see if its the lead and i dont know how to test the avga (v1) as it dont display on a pc mon. :dunno

now im goosed  :badmood:
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 31, 2008, 10:44:54 pm
i take it its nothing to do with the 100 ohm resistor? making it lower wouldnt do anything would it?

No, so long as your resistor is between pin 8 - pin 16.  This has no effect on the RGB signals.  It just tells the TV to expect RGB input.

Quote
update:
ive took another cable apart , what do i do with the rgb return wires?
i take it these are grounds? so would i just connect them all together to video ground? or do i just disreguard them?

where do i connect the shield wire to?

RGB 'returns' are indeed grounds and must be connected to ground.  Twist all the grounds together (ie VGA 6,7,8,10,+shield), and solder them to a convenient ground pin on the male SCART, such as blue ground (SCART 5) or even audio ground (SCART 4).  This includes the VGA cable's shield wire.    If these grounds aren't connected, then this could account for your colour problems.

(Make sure that you *don't* hook any of the VGA monitor ID wires to ground - ie VGA pins 11,12,15 - just snip them off).

If you hook up your VGA cable to the AVGA card and use a multimeter diode test on the various ground wires (while the PC is turned off, of course), then you'll find that all the grounds are connected (common) at the AVGA card anyway.  On most TVs, all the SCART grounds are connected as well.  With this bit of insight, you'll realise that you can simply twist all the VGA grounds together and connect to a single ground pin on the SCART. 

It occurs to me that if you take blue from green, then you get yellow.  This might give you some insight as to why your reds appear yellow.  I still think that you are looking at something wrong with your wiring connections.

Quote
do i need to add resistors in line with the rgb as ive read in a previous post in this section or is it ok to try without these

No need for resistors on RGB signals unless you are connecting up a JPAC to the TV, which is a bit of a waste of effort.  JPACs amplify the signal, making it too high for SCART TV standards (potentially damaging the TV).  So you would need to lower it again, therefore the need for a resistor.  I've actually done this before very successfully in a couple of special cabinets with SCART input monitors to allow them to accept JAMMA standard PCBs, but this was a special case.  However, note that Andy of Ultimarc does not personally recommend using JPACs like this, and there is simply no need for you to hook up a JPAC to your TV. 

Quote
the new cable i used was female so i could attach to the male (scart part)

i soldered the rgb,comp sync to the parts on the jamma connector, plugged the m & f together, put lead from avga to jpac.

I don't really understand what you've done here or why .... just stick to a simple male VGA -> male SCART cable, and you should be fine.  Make sure that you connect all the grounds.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: G1zm0 on August 02, 2008, 03:41:54 am
ok , thanx for input, i was/did connect scart to jpac, but as i said gave me black screen, so i tested avga and tv
both seem fine, so i am now going to take scart apart and start again.

the resistor isnt between the 2 pins you mentioned, its only on the 5v line, no other resistors are conected
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on August 02, 2008, 07:30:03 am
What is the 5v line + resistor connected to then?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: G1zm0 on August 02, 2008, 11:24:11 am
i redid scart lead and twisted all grounds together and solderd to a ground point, cable worked nicely with correct colours.

uninstalled the avga drivers and i get all resolutions now .

and also changed tvs geometry and get nice screen that is in size with windows desktop.

thanx for help guys  :applaud:

now to try fix my coinmech that dont work and a few microswitches, install hifi with speakers, pc power off button,

and hide windows ect, prob take me another few months, got this arcade in march lol

still another 2 to finish after this one. never mind ill get there one day lol
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on August 03, 2008, 01:14:38 pm
i redid scart lead and twisted all grounds together and solderd to a ground point, cable worked nicely with correct colours.

thanx for help guys  :applaud:   

Yay!    :cheers:   That makes me happy .... I can sleep soundly now, although a few scotches help too <hic!>

for eliminating windows, I always follow this guide:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Hiding_Windows (http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Hiding_Windows)

This might be too many scotches speaking but ... personally, I'm happy because over the past few months I've accumulated  large number of scart input monitors and TVs (eg Loewe brand) and old arcade cabs that I can restore .... so I'm pretty happy <*hic...*>  .... 

(warning: shameless self-promotion follows)

So, if anyone in Australia wants a *FANTASTIC* mame cab, let me know by PM because I'm going to be putting some on the market soon (officially for personal use, and roms *NOT* included in sale, for the copyright police out there ...).




Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: zedrein on November 24, 2008, 12:35:25 am
Perhaps you guys can help me: I am looking for a SNES RGBS cable that already has the audio brought out (i.e. not in the SCART lead, but seperate from the video connector) That way I would only have to terminate the connector needed for my display. If you guys can help me out I'd really appreciate it, the SCART cable I've found doesn't have the seperate audio cables/
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on November 27, 2008, 10:36:36 am
Sorry but please stay on topic.... :laugh:
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Geoffers on January 05, 2009, 06:34:06 am
Hi all,

just posting on here for the first time... well, I purchased a powered (for AV switching and RGB blanking) VGA to SCART, from Zebidee
, and I have to say.... WOW!.. Really pleased with the results.. I have tried it with both an Arcade VGA (native) and a Radeon 9250 running soft 15Khz.. and the results on a 16 year old Mitsubushi TV have been fantastic.

Big thanks goes out to Zebidee, I live in the UK, but he was really quick to get it to me.. true gent!

Out of interest, does anyone know how soft 15Khz does with more recent "oomphy" graphics cards?

Cheers.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SquidgyPidgeon on January 07, 2009, 11:25:37 am
Hi Everyone!

After spending 4 days literally wiring, re-wiring, installing win98 / xp, display drivers, unistalling, re-installing im at my wits end!! hair is almost completely gone! (altho wasnt too much left anyway!)

Ive got a 21" CRT old Ferguson TV wired up to my pc via home made scart.  To begin with I had an Ati 7500 but wasnt having much luck as all i was getting on tv was a white vertical and horizontal line.  I also had trouble with the Ati drivers being kicked out by soft 15khz in win98SE. 

So ive changed to Ati9200(SE) Win XP and re-wired my lead, i think the initial prob was lead shorting as i now have the colours on the TV but rolling vertically v.v.fast.  I think Soft 15khz seems to be doing something as if i boot up with monitor plugged in it boots until windows is about to come on then screen goes blank and at this point if i plug in TV i get the rolling picture.  All colours appear to be there.

Ive crossed wires 13+14 and soldered them to 20 on scart, also bridged 16-20 on scart.  If i use a 100ohm resistor between the 5v on the pc and the scart i get no picture at all, as soon as i bypass the resistor im back to my rolling picture.  I've tried just about every combination of everything i've read on here and just seem to be having no luck.

Ive just read a post where someone advised to connect all grounds together?? (not tried)

any ideas?

cheers guys
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 07, 2009, 03:53:31 pm
Ive just read a post where someone advised to connect all grounds together?? (not tried)

any ideas?

cheers guys

1) You definitely need to attach the grounds.

2) If you have a pic, but it is rolling, then sync is the obvious place to look.  I guess that the wire is connected right, but check it again. Can you adjust vertical sync on TV?

3) You should also use a multimeter/ohmmeter to check resistance or shorts on the sync line (VGA 13+14 -> SCART 20) on your VGA-SCART cable.  Even a few ohms on this line can cause sync problems sometimes.  You can also use the multimeter to test that all the wires are connected properly (eg are you sure that both 13 + 14 connected properly?)

It is a good idea to always check VGA cable line resistances before starting this project because it really sucks to complete a cable, just to find that there is some resistance on the sync lines.  I have had this happen both with VGA cables I've cut off old monitors, and also once with a new but cheap VGA extension cable.

If you give up making this cable, you can always send me a PM and I'll make one for you, like I've done for a few members here already.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SquidgyPidgeon on January 07, 2009, 04:10:56 pm
Hi Zebedee, thanks for the quick reply

I have the grounds connected to pins 13, 15 and 17 but not to each other- which seemed to be what someone was suggesting, is this correct?

I've just installed the older catalyst 6.05 drivers but that had no luck.

There doesnt seem to be a vertical sync on tv, everything but!

What kind of figures do i want to look out for on the multimeter when checking for resistance or shorts?

What do you make of the cable only working with the resistor not been connected?

What do you do if there is resistance on the sync lines? can you just chop end off and start again or is it case of brand new cable?

Thanks again!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SquidgyPidgeon on January 07, 2009, 04:18:50 pm
I keep coming across various ways of connecting up scarts, e.g:

(http://www.alvarezeninternet.com/mamescart/scartuk.jpg)
and

 http://www.willcoxonline.com/mame/video/video.html (http://www.willcoxonline.com/mame/video/video.html)

thanks
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on January 07, 2009, 04:41:59 pm
There are various PinOuts floating around, as some modern TVs support seperated Syncs and/or VGA (31kHz) signals via SCART.
Other pinouts are for beamers, scanconverters and other stuff.


Stick to the basic one.


VGA 1-2-3 (RGB) -> SCART 8-6-4
VGA 6-7-8 (RGB GND) -> SCART 7-5-3
VGA 13+14 (SYNC) -> SCART 20
VGA 10 (SYNC GND) -> SCART 17


Thats mostly it...  But you most likely need to get an AV switching voltage.
Either get it from your PCs PSU or wire a cable from VGA Pin 9 (+5V).
(using the VGA +5V will select 16:9 mode if your TV supports it)

PC PSU +12V (or VGA Pin 9) -> SCART Pin 8 (+5V = AV 16:9, +12V = AV 4:3)
PC PSU +5V (or VGA Pin 9) -> 75-100 Ohms Resistor -> SCART Pin 16 (~3V = RGB)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 07, 2009, 05:04:53 pm
There are various PinOuts floating around, as some modern TVs support seperated Syncs and/or VGA (31kHz) signals via SCART.
Other pinouts are for beamers, scanconverters and other stuff.


Stick to the basic one.


VGA 1-2-3 (RGB) -> SCART 8-6-4
VGA 6-7-8 (RGB GND) -> SCART 7-5-3
VGA 13+14 (SYNC) -> SCART 20
VGA 10 (SYNC GND) -> SCART 17


Thats mostly it...  But you most likely need to get an AV switching voltage.
Either get it from your PCs PSU or wire a cable from VGA Pin 9 (+5V).
(using the VGA +5V will select 16:9 mode if your TV supports it)

PC PSU +12V (or VGA Pin 9) -> SCART Pin 8 (+5V = AV 16:9, +12V = AV 4:3)
PC PSU +5V (or VGA Pin 9) -> 75-100 Ohms Resistor -> SCART Pin 16 (~3V = RGB)


Guys

Using this pinout and the above pinout diagram confuses things, because they use different pin numbers for the SCART side (compared to the diagram put up by the the OP) and makes pin references in posts (eg my own) difficult for you to reference.

It doesn't even look like a SCART connector.

Anyway, I'm done whinging.  Moving right along.

You can connect all the ground separately like SS suggested, or just connect them all to one pin (I usually pick SCART 17 for sync, as sync is most sensitive to the grounding issue).  If you test with a multimeter, you'll find that all the grounds are common at the TV and the video card ends anyway.

Your problem might also be because of your driver or video setup.  Make sure that you are outputting the right kind of sync signal.  This can cause your problems too.

There is a stickied guide for using multimeters on this forum somewhere (one of the branches, Arcade Michellaneous?) that you can refer to.

Your cable not working with 5v + resistor?  It could be a wiring error.  Did you ground pin 18? However, if it works with the sync voltage then stick to that because it is simpler.  However, it would be good to get the resistor method working to help isolate problems and help work out your current sync issues.

If I have resistance on the sync line for the cable, I simply throw it out and get another cable.  Try for a different/better brand!

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SquidgyPidgeon on January 07, 2009, 05:14:49 pm
got it working!!!!

was a problem with vga wires 13+14 - cheers for the help zebedee your a star!! ;D
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 07, 2009, 05:25:13 pm
got it working!!!!

was a problem with vga wires 13+14 - cheers for the help zebedee your a star!! ;D

No worries!!  As it is morning here, I'll be able to walk around with warm fuzzies all day.

For reference, I prefer to use this pinout:

http://pinouts.ru/Home/Scart_pinout.shtml

and wire it like this:

Function
   
                SC   VGA male
Red          15    1
Green       11    2
Blue           7    3
GND(R)     17    6       All grounds together
GND(G)     17    7       All grounds together
GND(B)     17    8       All grounds together
GND(S)     17    10     All grounds together
Sync         20    13+14
shield     21/17 shield wire

The RGB switching is then done either by bridging the sync to pin 16, or the 5v + resistor method (if you do the latter, then don't forget to put your 5v ground wire to pin 18).

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Josef1975 on January 12, 2009, 05:51:11 am
hi everybody, this is my first post here. my name is Joseph and I came from italy, so sorry for my bad english...
I have made may own first vga-scart rgb cable and it's working great... (tested over 3 different TVs)
but I still have some question:
I didn't used external PSU, simply connected pin 16 and 20 of the scart as suggested here. It work fine, but a friend told me two things:

1) If you join the two signal sync of vga, without any logical ttl circuit or resistor or diodes, you colud damage your grapichs card becouse (I try to explain) when one sync is low the other is high and vice-versa so this could be a problem

2) sync signal from vga is 5v pp (as it works on TTL logyc) but scart only need 1vpp signal level; so you should use a resistor do drop voltage from 5 to 1v to avoid damage to your TV...

I have tested my cable for several hours and nothing happens to my tv nor vga card, it' working great.. but should I scare of this 2 things or not?

thank you for the help!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 12, 2009, 02:19:56 pm
Hi all,

just posting on here for the first time... well, I purchased a powered (for AV switching and RGB blanking) VGA to SCART, from Zebidee
, and I have to say.... WOW!.. Really pleased with the results.. I have tried it with both an Arcade VGA (native) and a Radeon 9250 running soft 15Khz.. and the results on a 16 year old Mitsubushi TV have been fantastic.

Big thanks goes out to Zebidee, I live in the UK, but he was really quick to get it to me.. true gent!

Out of interest, does anyone know how soft 15Khz does with more recent "oomphy" graphics cards?

Cheers.



Holy cow, i saw a BIIIG Mitsubishi TV the other day (29" maybe) with SCART.   I have a Radeon 9700 in my (future) cabinet pc, i'm thinking i might go out today and buy it. 

Just a question:  How close is a TV with RGB/SCART to a real arcade monitor? (running soft15khz)

Cheers.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 12, 2009, 03:12:30 pm
Great to see that you had success with your cable!

I didn't used external PSU, simply connected pin 16 and 20 of the scart as suggested here. It work fine, but a friend told me two things:

1) If you join the two signal sync of vga, without any logical ttl circuit or resistor or diodes, you colud damage your grapichs card becouse (I try to explain) when one sync is low the other is high and vice-versa so this could be a problem

Your syncs are combined whichever way you try.  Connecting pin 20 to 16 will not change this.  Occasionally someone comes out with this scare story about combining syncs, but I have never seen or heard of anybody on these forums having any problems by combining simple (negative) sync signals.

I am running two cabs at home with combined sync and pin 20 linked to pin 16 in the SCART cable.  They have been running for two years now without a hitch.  None of the many cabs that I have made for other people have had any problems either.

Quote
2) sync signal from vga is 5v pp (as it works on TTL logyc) but scart only need 1vpp signal level so you should use a resistor do drop voltage from 5 to 1v to avoid damage to your TV...

I have tested my cable for several hours and nothing happens to my tv nor vga card, it' working great.. but should I scare of this 2 things or not?

thank you for the help!

You have nothing to worry about.  SCART TVs normally expect sync to be between 1v-5v :cheers:
It is only the RGB signals that should be 0-1v.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Josef1975 on January 12, 2009, 06:10:59 pm
Thank you for the reply! now I'm a bit quiet...  ;D
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 14, 2009, 04:07:10 am
Ok i made the cable.  Loaded windows on my normal monitor, installed the soft15khz, switched to 640x480x32-60hz, and shutdown.  Reconnected the TV via the new cable, and started up.  It looks like its working but its really scrambled (i get good colour though!).  Somes times looks like a really fast v.roll other times its like a random v.roll w/ random h.roll ?

Radeon Mobility 9700 (Catalyst 8.10)
Windows XP Pro SP3 x86
Mitsubishi 27" TV with SCART

I didn't use the Molex connector, i did the linking pins thingy.  I also twisted my pins 13/14 together and connected them as detailed.

Anyone?

Thanks.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Josef1975 on January 14, 2009, 04:18:41 am
hmm.. seems to be a sync problem. h.roll = missing horiz. sync, v.roll = missing vert. sync. both of them... I don't know.
I suggest you to check again the cable especially on pin 13,14 of vga -> pin 20 on the scart.
another thing may be to try a different tv...
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 14, 2009, 04:36:53 am
got it working!!!!

was a problem with vga wires 13+14 - cheers for the help zebedee your a star!! ;D

No worries!!  As it is morning here, I'll be able to walk around with warm fuzzies all day.

For reference, I prefer to use this pinout:

http://pinouts.ru/Home/Scart_pinout.shtml

and wire it like this:

Function
   
                SC   VGA male
Red          15    1
Green       11    2
Blue           7    3
GND(R)     17    6       All grounds together
GND(G)     17    7       All grounds together
GND(B)     17    8       All grounds together
GND(S)     17    10     All grounds together
Sync         20    13+14
shield     21/17 shield wire

The RGB switching is then done either by bridging the sync to pin 16, or the 5v + resistor method (if you do the latter, then don't forget to put your 5v ground wire to pin 18).



I've just checked my cable with my multimeter and the ony VGA Pin connected to scart 17, is VGA pin 10?  and the metal surrounding the scart connected is an open circuit to the metal surrounding the VGA Cable.

I followed the instructions in the first post, then did the 2 follow ups:

Quote
"Mostly, I've done it by just running a short wire from pin 20 (ie sync) to pin 16, and this has worked fine.  I'd recommend to people that they try this method first, because it is much simpler. "

then

Quote
"I'd like to point out that this cable only works if the card outputs COMPOSITE Sync.
If it doesn't (like with Soft-15kHz) you'll need to connect VGA Pin 13 and VGA Pin 14 to SCART Pin 20."
i get 0.5ohms between VGA Pin 13/14 and Scart Pin 20.

I'm thinking it might be a grounding issue.  Would unconnected grounds cause v.roll/h.roll ?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 14, 2009, 05:23:59 am
Ok Heres what it look like (I've now joined the VGA Chasis and Scart 21.  Still the same :/)

[youtube]-R1CUTwsclI[/youtube]

why this:
Quote
GND(R)     17    6       All grounds together
GND(G)     17    7       All grounds together
GND(B)     17    8       All grounds together
GND(S)     17    10     All grounds together

Mine goes:

GND(R)     13     6
GND(G)     9      7 
GND(B)     5      8 
GND(S)     17    10


Also, for some weird reason, its doesn't matter if i have it on AV or if i leave the AV mode and change TV stations, its the exact same thing on every screen the messed up computer image.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 14, 2009, 03:09:38 pm

Also, for some weird reason, its doesn't matter if i have it on AV or if i leave the AV mode and change TV stations, its the exact same thing on every screen the messed up computer image.


Hmmmm,  0.5 ohms on the sync line should not be enough to cause a problem.

A few things for you to look at:

1) Make sure that nothing is accidentally shorting in your SCART header, e.g. all those gnd wires you have.
2) Check out the polarity of horz & vert sync in your video card.  As you have a Radeon, I guess that you access this by right-clicking the desktop -> properties -> settings tab -> Advanced button, then choose the monitor tab.  This will only work if you have the catalyst software installed.  Polarity shown should be either composite or both negative, whichever works for your setup.
3) try doing the 5v + 100ohm resistor method to pin 16 (and GND to pin 18)
4) If you haven't done #3 yet, try hooking pin 18 to a VGA GND to see what happens.

What I do is cover the ends of my wires with insulating tape or heat-shrink, to make sure that the wires don't get pushed together and short in that tiny SCART housing.  (interestingly, though irrrelevant, I prefer to make my cables from new headers with spade connectors built  and use small brass female quick-connects for my SCART connections.  I actually use very little solder.  This makes things a lot easier).

While you have your multmeter out, try plugging your cable into the PC VGA and then use your multimeter on diode test to check out all the GND pins you have wired into your SCART header.  I expect that you'll find that they are all common to each other.  Now, pull the cable out of the PC, plug the SCART into the TV, and check all the GND pins on the VGA end.  Again, I expect you to find them all common, even though you have wired them all separately.

What I'm trying to say is that you can save a lot of time and potential trouble by wiring your grounds together onto one SCART pin (e.g. 17, or any other will do, even audio ground!). Just an idea, It is a personal choice thing I guess   :dunno   You might want to continue wiring the VGA and SCART shields separately though.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 15, 2009, 03:00:12 am
4) If you haven't done #3 yet, try hooking pin 18 to a VGA GND to see what happens.

Which pin is VGA GND, or do you mean the Chasis on the VGA Plug?

PS: Sorry i'm fairly good at home electrical wiring, just not electronic stuff.

EDIT: i've plugged my Computer back into my Montitor, and its listing 640x480, running

H.Freq - 31.7kHz
V.Freq - 50.6 hz

Are those the correct freqencies for the cable?

EDIT2: I've just deinstalled soft15khz, then only enabled 15khz mode, not the others.  I restarted and my monitor shuts off when it gets into windows, so i tried it on my tv and it looks about the same.

I then tried disconnected pin 13+14 and it makes it look worse, no colours and no understandable images.  So i tried 13+14 back together and i'm back to where i started.

EDIT3: Just did

Quote
4) If you haven't done #3 yet, try hooking pin 18 to a VGA GND to see what happens.

that makes it look like it syncs a bit better,  i can make out stuff but the picture seems to jump around a lot and still rolls a tiny bit but was nearly getting a full picture on the windows desktop, but it rolled jumped and looked a bit scattery.  So close! :/  I'll try and take a picture with my better camera when my sister finds it :/

I might grab a 100ohm resister tommorow and try the 5V+100ohm to pin16, and 12V to pin 8, i'll reroute pin 16 to the molex's GND as well.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 15, 2009, 07:50:00 am
4) If you haven't done #3 yet, try hooking pin 18 to a VGA GND to see what happens.

Which pin is VGA GND, or do you mean the Chasis on the VGA Plug?

you could try *any* of the gnd leads from VGA pins.  Like I said before, they are all electrically common at the video card end.

Quote
EDIT: i've plugged my Computer back into my Montitor, and its listing 640x480, running

H.Freq - 31.7kHz
V.Freq - 50.6 hz

Are those the correct freqencies for the cable?

No, that is a VGA frequency.

Quote
Quote
4) If you haven't done #3 yet, try hooking pin 18 to a VGA GND to see what happens.

that makes it look like it syncs a bit better,  i can make out stuff but the picture seems to jump around a lot and still rolls a tiny bit but was nearly getting a full picture on the windows desktop, but it rolled jumped and looked a bit scattery.  So close! :/  I'll try and take a picture with my better camera when my sister finds it :/

I might grab a 100ohm resister tommorow and try the 5V+100ohm to pin16, and 12V to pin 8, i'll reroute pin 16 to the molex's GND as well.

If you are 100% sure that VGA 13+14 are properly connected to SCART 20, then my best guess is that you really do need to apply the 5v+resistor method to get it to go into RGB mode.  Some TVs are just like that, and I know nothing about Mitsubhishi TVs (like, don't they make cars?).  In the meantime, try DISCONNECTING the link from SCART 20 -> 16 and see what difference that makes to your picture.  If there is no difference at all, then rush out and buy that 100ohm resistor (and get a molex male plug, or a splitter cable, while you are at it).
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 15, 2009, 08:46:56 am
Well i disconneted PIN16 from PIN20, and put a 1.5 volt battery in, now at first it didn't work. When i went into windows it was still wierd but then I vnc'd into my machine used quickres to change rez to the lowest resolution i could get and BAM it worked!

the only thing is i can't get standard resolutions like 320x240 or 640x480 but i can get 640x240 ?  Does that mean i've somehow put the connect in 16:9 mode instead of 4:3 ? (Because i can't get any real square-ish resolution, though i can get what looks like widescreen resolutions, cause my vnc window goes really wide)

Also running mame with "switchres 1" made the games either give me a blank screen (cps2) or same problem as before, scrolling/scambled picture (mk1/2/3).

I'm excited because the screen i did get was rock solid and clear as hell!  Just gotta figure out why i can't get the arcade rez's.

Oh and thanks for the all help Zeb, sorry if i'm annoying lol just trying to get this part of my cabinet ready :)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 15, 2009, 11:37:18 am
Well i disconneted PIN16 from PIN20, and put a 1.5 volt battery in, now at first it didn't work. When i went into windows it was still wierd but then I vnc'd into my machine used quickres to change rez to the lowest resolution i could get and BAM it worked!

The cable seems to work properly.

I was just thinking, hey, maybe your problems are to do with your software after all.

Now, try removing the battery and putting your cable back to how it was (linking pin 20 to pin 16), and see if you can still get your basic 640x480 res.

Quote
the only thing is i can't get standard resolutions like 320x240 or 640x480 but i can get 640x240 ?

I think that you need to take this up on the Soft15khz thread.

Quote
Does that mean i've somehow put the connect in 16:9 mode instead of 4:3 ? (Because i can't get any real square-ish resolution, though i can get what looks like widescreen resolutions, cause my vnc window goes really wide)

No.  That has nothing to do with it.  Some TVs (especially those large TVs with 110 degree tubes) just seem wider.

Quote
Also running mame with "switchres 1" made the games either give me a blank screen (cps2) or same problem as before, scrolling/scambled picture (mk1/2/3).

I'm excited because the screen i did get was rock solid and clear as hell!  Just gotta figure out why i can't get the arcade rez's.

It must be something to do with your software setup! The cable works. 

Quote
Oh and thanks for the all help Zeb, sorry if i'm annoying lol just trying to get this part of my cabinet ready :)

No worries ;D
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 15, 2009, 11:56:25 am
Ok, disconnected battery and wired 16->20 and i'm back to where i started, can't get any resolutions.  So i must need to do the +5v +100ohm on pin16 and the 12V on pin8 ?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 15, 2009, 03:18:35 pm
Ok, disconnected battery and wired 16->20 and i'm back to where i started, can't get any resolutions.  So i must need to do the +5v +100ohm on pin16 and the 12V on pin8 ?

Yep, given your experiences you'll neeed the 5v+ 100 ohm.  Also, understand that the TV spec. says a voltage 1-3v is needed at pin 16 for RGB.  The resistor method gives you ~2v for the signal.  The bridge method gives you ~3-5v for the signal.    Your TV is obviously fussy, therefore you need to use the resistor method.  Bridging is easier, by the resistor method is more certain.

You don't need the 12v signal to pin 8 unless you really want to.  But, seeing as you are going to make up a molex connector anyway, you might as well do the 12v signal as well as it is only a little extra effort.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 16, 2009, 02:15:14 am
Hey Zeb, I think its a software problem.  When the cable works its like  :o

Thanks for all the help my friend :) Much appreciated!

(PS: I forgot how gorgeous mortal kombat ii looks on an arcade monitor!)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Josef1975 on January 19, 2009, 04:41:27 am
hi everybody, in the past 10 days I have made a complete guide on building a vga-scart cable; I have analized various scheme found on the web (with advantages and disavantages). the wrong news is that my guide is only in may language (italian) so I'm afraid most of you won't understand anything.. anyway if someone is interested in, this is the link: http://digilander.libero.it/venturi1975/
...and sorry for my bad english (as usual) ;)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 19, 2009, 05:16:55 am
Cooool.  I hope that you pointed out that the diagram (at section 5.2) only shows VGA pin 13 connected to SCART, not both 13 + 14 as it should be for most applications.  That has caught a few people out here.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Josef1975 on January 19, 2009, 05:57:09 am
yes, my guide says:
 "Necessita di alimentazione esterna a 5 e 12v, funziona solo con certe schede video Ati Radeon"
"You need external powr supply, it only works on some ati radeon cards"
after this the guide point out that with these scheme the video card MUST generate a composite sync and only some ati radeon can do it, so I suggest to use another scheme (all those with pin 13 + 14 of course)

;)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 19, 2009, 06:11:53 am
Your English is much better than my Italian. ;D
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Josef1975 on January 19, 2009, 03:07:03 pm
Your English is much better than my Italian. ;D

 
English in much easy to learn...
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Sosetsuken on January 20, 2009, 07:57:19 am
Just a finishing statement, i finally got it all working.  But my Radeon Mobility 9700 required the +5V&100ohm AND 12V

I had an old External USB Hdd case that I didn't need anymore which was perfect as it had a molex connector and the pcb once removed from the hdd enclosure was tiny.

Thanks Guys!

Oh and Josef1975 just use THIS http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigilander.libero.it%2Fventuri1975%2F&sl=it&tl=en (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigilander.libero.it%2Fventuri1975%2F&sl=it&tl=en) link, it does quite a good job of translating your italian guide, which is very helpful and detailed! :)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Honzo on January 20, 2009, 10:05:21 am
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but shouldn't most tv's actually have access to a scart connection?
From other devices that I've fiddled with, I noticed some how manufacturers will just leave off parts, like the difference between a debugging xbox and a regular one, the regular one is just missing a pin header that can easily be soldered in....
Basically, what are the chances that a tv's chassis board would actually have a spot for a scart connector to be soldered on if it were to be originally for europe?  I'm just not sure since theres the big NTSC vs. PAL difference if this idea would apply to tv's too...
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 21, 2009, 02:11:48 am
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but shouldn't most tv's actually have access to a scart connection?
From other devices that I've fiddled with, I noticed some how manufacturers will just leave off parts, like the difference between a debugging xbox and a regular one, the regular one is just missing a pin header that can easily be soldered in....
Basically, what are the chances that a tv's chassis board would actually have a spot for a scart connector to be soldered on if it were to be originally for europe?  I'm just not sure since theres the big NTSC vs. PAL difference if this idea would apply to tv's too...

Theoretically correct, but practically very hard unless you have TV schematics and a lot of electrical knowledge & experience.  Maybe some good guesswork could help you.  Go and have a look at a non-scart TV chassis and try to figure out where the RGB input lines are without a schematic.  :dizzy:
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Honzo on January 21, 2009, 02:54:26 am
i meant more along the lines of a series of empty holes in the circuit board near where the composite connectors are solder and what not where a scart connector would just drop in and solder.  Whether or no all those points would actually be enabled is up to question too though.  I guess i'll know when i tear apart the tv and check out the board though...
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Josef1975 on January 21, 2009, 08:19:17 am
Oh and Josef1975 just use THIS http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigilander.libero.it%2Fventuri1975%2F&sl=it&tl=en (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigilander.libero.it%2Fventuri1975%2F&sl=it&tl=en) link, it does quite a good job of translating your italian guide, which is very helpful and detailed! :)

very interesting, maybe translation isn't 100% accurate but it's readable.... thank you for the idea!
;)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on January 23, 2009, 05:31:21 pm
i meant more along the lines of a series of empty holes in the circuit board near where the composite connectors are solder and what not where a scart connector would just drop in and solder.  Whether or no all those points would actually be enabled is up to question too though.  I guess i'll know when i tear apart the tv and check out the board though...
Don't think this is very likely. I did some searching on video (decoding) chips commonly used in TV sets and usually the one's for NTSC are simply NTSC only and the PAL one's are usually PAL/SECAM.

You'd really have to find a point at one of those chips where the RGB signals are produced. And also where the sync signals can be found. Then, in theory, you could supply the signals to that point. You'd need to cut-off the original signals too.
Not easy, but it is possible. In the 80's I had my Atari 600XL hooked up to a small (new) B/W TV that a friend had modded to allow direct input of the monochrome signal. (I didn't have the money for a color monitor or TV).

Later, when I had an Atari ST, I used a color TV that had previously been used as a viditel terminal (text data system through telephone lines, like an ancient predecessor of the Internet). The company was interested to get back the old decoding board inside the TV+keyboard for spare and I only wanted them to make a SCART RGB connector on it. So, that decoding board put out the signals in RGB and was somewhere fed into the original board of the TV. They simply put a female SCART in the casing and re-wired.
Worked great.

So, yes it is possible, but you really have to know what you're doing. With the monitor prices in the US, I wouldn't bother.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: richms on January 26, 2009, 12:19:49 pm
Loads of cheap crap 20" TVs sold here in NZ had a place on the back where they could have moulded the case with a hole for the scart, but the board inside had nothing where it would have being soldered in.

I doubt that they would use the same board for multiple markets - the US is large enough and has its own issues like with needing SAP and totally different closed captioning to the teletext based one used in the rest of the world that it wouldnt be viable to make a one size fits all board for a cheap television.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 26, 2009, 02:17:17 pm
If you have a good quality TV screen, your best bet is to get a generic chassis to fit it rather than trying to invent RGB inputs.  Guaranteed to work (if your screen is good), and no stuffing around with unknown electronics this way.  Jomac sell them at reasonable prices: www.jomac.net.au

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: ArcadeBliss on April 07, 2009, 02:50:52 am
Seeing as how this is the post regarding using scart, I will stretch out my feelers here to see if anyone is intrested in this. In the pictures below you will find a vga-2-scart circuit that sends out the correct composite sync signal for use with Guncon2. It nicely fits in a scart connector housing  8)

Let me know if you are instrested in something like this. The amount of answers will determine if it makes sense to make a batch of these.

.....Edited to refelect Guncon 2 and not 3...
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 07, 2009, 05:09:53 am


a vga-2-scart circuit that sends out the correct composite sync signal for use with Guncon2/3. It nicely fits in a scart connector housing  8)

Hi, that is fascinating.  Did you do that yourself? The resistors are tiny ....

What is the correct composite sync signal for a Guncon 2/3, and how can we apply that to other applications? For example, does this convert +/- sync signals so that you can connect to a normal monitor with composite sync in, without worrying about polarity?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: ArcadeBliss on April 07, 2009, 05:36:28 pm
In my experience, the polarity needs to be negative to work correctly. This circuit is the another version of the circuit from this website: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/guncon2/VideoCon2.htm (http://xoomer.virgilio.it/guncon2/VideoCon2.htm)

I did not do them myself. I have a friend who hat "spare" space on another projekt at his job. He let me know if there is enough demand he can make a dedicated run to have more created.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 11, 2009, 08:16:54 pm
In my experience, the polarity needs to be negative to work correctly. This circuit is the another version of the circuit from this website: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/guncon2/VideoCon2.htm (http://xoomer.virgilio.it/guncon2/VideoCon2.htm)

I did not do them myself. I have a friend who hat "spare" space on another projekt at his job. He let me know if there is enough demand he can make a dedicated run to have more created.

The key advantage of this bit over circuitry, compared to just twisting the sync wires, is that you can use positive or negative Horz & vertical sync. The circuitry converts it to a simple composite sync. Which is the same outcome as twisting the wires if you use negative for both syncs.

 

 
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: tomoprime on April 22, 2009, 03:19:33 pm
Hi Guys - just joined after reading this thread which looks very helpful.

I have a MV1C pcb and was thinking of wiring the Jamma into a scart hookup because of the RBG. I live in the US and would like to get a scart tv or rgb monitor. Of course there's all kinds of ways to add video encoders with jrok or Neo Bitz, or VGA upscale, but I'd like to get that arcade monitor look without the insides being exposed.

1) What's an economical way to use scart with scanlines ? I guess buy a monitor but which?
   - not too big, even flat pannel if price is right.

2) Or convert from scart / RGB source using external devices, no scan lines.

I doubt these are cheap way outs but after seeing these on ebay it makes me wonder if this stuff works.
Hard to say if these are UK or JP scart converters. Plus where are the encoder chips if adapters are so small?

Just type scart in ebay search
http://cgi.ebay.com/RGB-Scart-to-3-RCA-S-Video-Audio-AV-TV-Adapter-9711_W0QQitemZ200329775478QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item200329775478&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A3%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A100 (http://cgi.ebay.com/RGB-Scart-to-3-RCA-S-Video-Audio-AV-TV-Adapter-9711_W0QQitemZ200329775478QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item200329775478&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A3%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A100)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Scart-to-yPbPr-Connector-for-DM500_W0QQitemZ110326742418QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item110326742418&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A3%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A100 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Scart-to-yPbPr-Connector-for-DM500_W0QQitemZ110326742418QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item110326742418&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A3%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A100)

P.S I own a SUN GDM 20D10 monitor with vga adapter but doubt it can step down to 15KHZ
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 23, 2009, 04:45:14 pm
I'm not sure exactly what you really want to do, but JAMMA provides RGB input from a PCB to an arcade monitor already.

If you want to make a JAMMA->SCART TV setup, then you need to use resistors on the RGB lines. Arcade PCBs usually output the signals at a higher voltage.  Try using 75 ohm resistors on the RGB lines, but leave the sync alone.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: tomoprime on April 23, 2009, 05:01:08 pm
Sorry for being unclear.

I have a pcb with no monitor.

I want to buy a monitor that is inclosed in it's own case.

It seems people are using scart to do this. I live in the US and don't have a scart tv.

So I can do two things.

1) get a scart based, or rgb arcade based monitor. I don't know where to begin here. Please provide feedback.

2) buy a converter, either using scart to something or rgb to something. I gave some examples from ebay. Basicly just give me examples of how I can hook this up to something if option 1 doesn't work above. Yeah there goes my scanlines.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 23, 2009, 05:08:54 pm
http://cgi.ebay.com/Scart-to-yPbPr-Connector-for-DM500_W0QQitemZ110326742418QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item110326742418&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A3%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A100[/url]

P.S I own a SUN GDM 20D10 monitor with vga adapter but doubt it can step down to 15KHZ

I personally can't help you in the US, I am in Australia. My main suggestion would be to look for a good-quality Euro brand like Loewe, Grundig, Telefunken ..... These TVs come SCART standard, and they are less likely to change the input specs for (formerly) expensive models. So there is a chance that they are still SCART in the US.

I have seen Euro people on this forum offer to send shiploads of SCART TVs to their unfortunate cousins across the lake.

I had a look at this adaptor:

Quote
http://cgi.ebay.com/Scart-to-yPbPr-Connector-for-DM500_W0QQitemZ110326742418QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item110326742418&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A3|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A100

The adaptor looks like it does genuine RGB->component conversion, and it is cheap, so why not give it a go and tell us all how it worked!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: rygar_70 on April 27, 2009, 08:39:33 pm
Hi guys

I need help big time!

I have read all your forum discussions, and followed all the links regarding scart converting to arcade.  I built two scart connectors with & without 100 ohm resistors, also linked pin 16 to 20, and also connected the 8 pin to 12+ and many many others combos as well - with minimal luck, to the place I'm at the moment where I get an image on the screen - it's black/grey with embossed graphics?  NO COLOUR!!

Can anyone help?  I'm using a Teac CT M201 51cm TV (is this the problem?)

Please advise.

I'm looking forward towards anyones prompt response in this matter, before I sink my foot into this project.

Mick
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 27, 2009, 10:54:21 pm
Hi guys

I need help big time!

I have read all your forum discussions, and followed all the links regarding scart converting to arcade.  I built two scart connectors with & without 100 ohm resistors, also linked pin 16 to 20, and also connected the 8 pin to 12+ and many many others combos as well - with minimal luck, to the place I'm at the moment where I get an image on the screen - it's black/grey with embossed graphics?  NO COLOUR!!

Can anyone help?  I'm using a Teac CT M201 51cm TV (is this the problem?)

Please advise.

I'm looking forward towards anyones prompt response in this matter, before I sink my foot into this project.

Mick

In my experience, TEAC TVs are the most tiresome SCART TVs to deal with.  However, you should still be able to get it to work properly. This is how I got a similar TV, a 51cm TEAC CT-something, to work under VGA-SCART you will need to build a fully-featured VGA-SCART cable with :

1)  Molex 5v (red) + 100 ohm resistor  => 2v to SCART pin 16
2)  Molex 12v (yellow) => SCART pin 8
3) Molex Ground (both black ones) => SCART pin 18

Then apply power to the TEAC TV and press channel up (+) button. This last step might be different for you, but just turn on the TV and change the channel to AV mode. The cable should auto-select this for you, but when I did this and tested it the TEAC TV would not stay in AV mode unless 12v was also present at SCART pin 8. So you may have to manually change channels.

If this still doesn't work then you might need to check your cable thoroughly.

The only other thing that may happen is that some cheap SCART TVs may only have the composite video input
enabled, although you probably wouldn't get any picture at all if this was the case.  I have only seen this once with a Goldstar TV, but bear in mind that TEAC is also at the cheaper end of the scale (but not as cheap & nasty as Goldstar).


Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: rygar_70 on April 27, 2009, 11:02:38 pm
Tks Zebidee for getting back so quick.

Funnily enough, I did grab this cheap & nasty Teac at my local "Crime Converters" or "cashies" for $20.  And just to add injury to insult, the tube happens to be a Goldstar! lol!

I will try this tonite - sounds like an all-nighter here for me (a novice at soldering) but it seems straight forward enough!

Thanks champ!

Mick
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Quinny on June 01, 2009, 03:46:01 am
I'd just like to let people know that you definitely need a RGB enabled SCART on the TV.

I got a 68cm NEC TV for free but had to pay $80 to repair it. It would make a great arcade monitor. It only has one scart input and that is for s-video.

I have a set top box which can output composite, component, RGB and s-video. I hooked up the set top box and can use any output signal and the TV will detect it, though composite, component and RGB all look the same, so I suspect that the TV is converting the signal to something common.

I thought this would allow an RGB signal to display on it but using this cable there is no colour detection and no picture. I know my cable works because I can use it on our widescreen TV.

I think my best option now is to see if I can swap this TV for a similar one with a RGB scart input.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 01, 2009, 05:51:34 pm
I'd just like to let people know that you definitely need a RGB enabled SCART on the TV.

I thought this would allow an RGB signal to display on it but using this cable there is no colour detection and no picture. I know my cable works because I can use it on our widescreen TV.

This is surprising as I have never had any probs with using Philips 68cm TVs. Where are you?

You might find that your set-top box is sending composite video as well as RGB/Component signals, and that is what your TV is picking up and locking onto. You may find that you can get it to recognise the RGB signals. Check the service menu, see if there is a option on what to do with AV input (set to RGB!)

Also, I don't know what your VGA-SCART cable really does. In particular, make sure that your cable has voltages at pins 8 (12v) and 16 (2v). Pin 16 tells the TV RGB mode. Pin 8 tells the TV what mode to be in (usually you will want AV-RGB).

Cheers, Zeb
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 01, 2009, 05:56:39 pm
I got a 68cm NEC TV for free but had to pay $80 to repair it. It would make a great arcade monitor.

The other thing you can do is keep the Philips screen (ditch the rest of the TV) and buy an arcade monitor chassis to suit from Joey at www.jomac.net.au (http://www.jomac.net.au).

Many (newer) Philips TV screens are very good quality, and make excellent arcade monitor screens. Their screens are used by top TV European brands.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Quinny on June 02, 2009, 01:51:31 am
This is surprising as I have never had any probs with using Philips 68cm TVs. Where are you?

I am in Perth, West Australia. I am not sure where Philips comes into this, are they part of NEC?
Here is a link to the user manual for the TV: http://www.nec.com.au/docs/FS68V81_Instruction_Manual.pdf. It's the FS-68T90.

You might find that your set-top box is sending composite video as well as RGB/Component signals, and that is what your TV is picking up and locking onto.

This is what I suspect is happening.

You may find that you can get it to recognise the RGB signals. Check the service menu, see if there is a option on what to do with AV input (set to RGB!)

I found what seems to be how to access the service menu here (http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_104665/article.html) but that doesn't work on the TV.
I could maybe get the TV repair man to try this.

Also, I don't know what your VGA-SCART cable really does. In particular, make sure that your cable has voltages at pins 8 (12v) and 16 (2v). Pin 16 tells the TV RGB mode. Pin 8 tells the TV what mode to be in (usually you will want AV-RGB).

Cheers, Zeb

I have tried both the pin20 -> pin16 link and using a AA battery to pin16. They don't make any difference. I didn't use pin8 because I can use the remote or the TV itself to choose AV1.

The other thing you can do is keep the Philips screen (ditch the rest of the TV) and buy an arcade monitor chassis to suit from Joey at www.jomac.net.au (http://www.jomac.net.au).

Many (newer) Philips TV screens are very good quality, and make excellent arcade monitor screens. Their screens are used by top TV European brands.

The chassis that are $120 or $250? I don't know much about TVs. How would a new chassis help?

The screen does seem to be of a good quality and even the TV repair man commented that it was a very good TV.

Thanks for your help Zebidee.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 02, 2009, 02:57:20 am
This is surprising as I have never had any probs with using Philips 68cm TVs. Where are you?

I am in Perth, West Australia. I am not sure where Philips comes into this, are they part of NEC?
Here is a link to the user manual for the TV: http://www.nec.com.au/docs/FS68V81_Instruction_Manual.pdf. It's the FS-68T90.

I dunno where I got the Philips from either ... I answered pretty quickly before going to work, maybe my eye scanned it in from earlier in the thread .... ooops!

Quote
You may find that you can get it to recognise the RGB signals. Check the service menu, see if there is a option on what to do with AV input (set to RGB!)

I found what seems to be how to access the service menu here (http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_104665/article.html) but that doesn't work on the TV. I could maybe get the TV repair man to try this.

That is not a service manual!  That is a user manual. They are different things. Service manuals are only for official techs and access is usually restricted, although I have found many on the web (try http://eserviceinfo.com/ (http://eserviceinfo.com/)). You can ask your service guy to help.

Quote
Also, I don't know what your VGA-SCART cable really does. In particular, make sure that your cable has voltages at pins 8 (12v) and 16 (2v). Pin 16 tells the TV RGB mode. Pin 8 tells the TV what mode to be in (usually you will want AV-RGB).

Cheers, Zeb

I have tried both the pin20 -> pin16 link and using a AA battery to pin16. They don't make any difference. I didn't use pin8 because I can use the remote or the TV itself to choose AV1.

Personally, I think that the battery way is a bit iffy especially as the battery voltage will run down pretty quickly. The pin20 -> 16 trick works for some, not all.

The best way for you to get a reliable 2v at pin 16 is to take 5v from the PC power supply and put a 100ohm resistor on it.

You may NEED to use pin 8 as well to get your TV into the right AV-RGB mode.

Some of the TVs I have done this with will ONLY work if you have 2v at pin 16 and 12v at pin8.

This could well be your issue. Make a cable with a molex connector to get the 5v & 12v from the PC. [edit: and attach one molex black ground lead to pin 18]

Quote
The other thing you can do is keep the Philips NEC screen (ditch the rest of the TV) and buy an arcade monitor chassis to suit from Joey at www.jomac.net.au (http://www.jomac.net.au).

The chassis that are $120 or $250? I don't know much about TVs. How would a new chassis help?

You'd need a $250 chassis for a 68cm tube. What you would do is de-case the TV, detatch the chassis, and throw everything out except for the tube (and the attached degaussing coil & earth lead). Buy a new chassis from Jomac at attach. Voila! You have a "new" quality arcade monitor!

www.Jomac.net.au (http://www.Jomac.net.au) is based in Perth so run on down to 95A Carr Street and introduce yourself. They guys down there are friendly and will tell you all you need to know. Tell them I sent you (except that they won't know who Zebidee is that is obviously not my real name!  ::) ???  )

Quote
Thanks for your help Zebidee.

No wukkas! Always happy to help a mate, especially an Aussie.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Quinny on June 02, 2009, 05:59:43 am

Quote
I found what seems to be how to access the service menu <here> (http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_104665/article.html) but that doesn't work on the TV. I could maybe get the TV repair man to try this.

That is not a service manual!  That is a user manual. They are different things. Service manuals are only for official techs and access is usually restricted, although I have found many on the web (try http://eserviceinfo.com/ (http://eserviceinfo.com/)). You can ask your service guy to help.

That link I posted above goes to a service tech's page where he wrote the code he used to access the service mode on the same model TV as the one I have. I couldn't get that to work though.

Personally, I think that the battery way is a bit iffy especially as the battery voltage will run down pretty quickly. The pin20 -> 16 trick works for some, not all.

The best way for you to get a reliable 2v at pin 16 is to take 5v from the PC power supply and put a 100ohm resistor on it.

You may NEED to use pin 8 as well to get your TV into the right AV-RGB mode.

Some of the TVs I have done this with will ONLY work if you have 2v at pin 16 and 12v at pin8.

This could well be your issue. Make a cable with a molex connector to get the 5v & 12v from the PC. [edit: and attach one molex black ground lead to pin 18]

I was hoping not to need to do this. I will need to get a resistor, so I will try it tomorrow and let you know how it goes.


You'd need a $250 chassis for a 68cm tube. What you would do is de-case the TV, detatch the chassis, and throw everything out except for the tube (and the attached degaussing coil & earth lead). Buy a new chassis from Jomac at attach. Voila! You have a "new" quality arcade monitor!

www.Jomac.net.au (http://www.Jomac.net.au) is based in Perth so run on down to 95A Carr Street and introduce yourself. They guys down there are friendly and will tell you all you need to know. Tell them I sent you (except that they won't know who Zebidee is that is obviously not my real name!  ::) ???  )

Hahahah thanks Zebidee. I think for that price I could get a new TV with an easier scart connection to work with. :) Is there any other benefit to using their chassis?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: sevenleaf on June 02, 2009, 10:52:26 am
I am about to make my own VGA to SCART cable for my Sony 27" CRT (although I may have to house it in a box as I don't think I can get it small enough to fit within the SCART casing). I like the simplicity of the one on the first post, but I would like to add in a function to protect the TV during boot up.

Has anyone on here either built or have any comments on this circuitry?

(http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/scartdd.png)

(http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/en_pic.png)

Source: http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/scart.htm
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 03, 2009, 05:36:34 am

Quote
I found what seems to be how to access the service menu <here> (http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_104665/article.html) but that doesn't work on the TV. I could maybe get the TV repair man to try this.

That is not a service manual!  That is a user manual. They are different things. Service manuals are only for official techs and access is usually restricted, although I have found many on the web (try http://eserviceinfo.com/ (http://eserviceinfo.com/)). You can ask your service guy to help.

That link I posted above goes to a service tech's page where he wrote the code he used to access the service mode on the same model TV as the one I have. I couldn't get that to work though.

Sorry about that, seems again I'm getting lost in this thread and reading/responding a bit quickly ... :)

So what your article says is:

"NEC Technical Support thankfully deduced that the set was locked into the "HOTEL" mode. This function is to protect hotel TV installations from the prying hands of inquisitive guests. To release it, you have to press "Delete", "Move", "Skip" and "Operate".

Finally, to access the Service Mode, you must first select program 91 and set "Sharpness" to minimum, then very quickly press "Red", "Green" and "Menu" in turn, then "OK".

This is for a different model NEC, it might work for your NEC:
"Select DISPLAY MODE. Press PROCEED.
Press and hold RESET. Then simultaneous
press + & -. 'Warning Entering Service Menu'
appears. Press PROCEED for enter."

Quote
You'd need a $250 chassis for a 68cm tube. What you would do is de-case the TV, detatch the chassis, and throw everything out except for the tube (and the attached degaussing coil & earth lead). Buy a new chassis from Jomac at attach. Voila! You have a "new" quality arcade monitor!

www.Jomac.net.au (http://www.Jomac.net.au) is based in Perth so run on down to 95A Carr Street and introduce yourself. They guys down there are friendly and will tell you all you need to know. Tell them I sent you (except that they won't know who Zebidee is that is obviously not my real name!  ::) ???  )
Hahahah thanks Zebidee. I think for that price I could get a new TV with an easier scart connection to work with. :) Is there any other benefit to using their chassis?

The main benefit I have found is that the new arcade chassis is more reliable and usually better picture than an old TV. Joey will give you telephone support for any issues you have, and will accept the chassis back for repair if there are any problems (usually free for recent purchases, and cheap otherwise). If something stuffs up in your TV. you are pretty much tied to taking it to a TV repair guy, and those are getting harder to find and more expensive. I have gone the arcade monitor option when I have had problems with TVs previously. Better than agonising over repairs to esoteric and obsolete electronics.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 03, 2009, 05:47:33 am
I am about to make my own VGA to SCART cable for my Sony 27" CRT (although I may have to house it in a box as I don't think I can get it small enough to fit within the SCART casing). I like the simplicity of the one on the first post, but I would like to add in a function to protect the TV during boot up.

Has anyone on here either built or have any comments on this circuitry?

(http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/scartdd.png)

(http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/en_pic.png)

Source: http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/scart.htm

1) Seems that you don't need to link the 12v from SCART pin 8 -> R2 -> pin 16 at all.

2) What does "enable input" go to? is that taking 5v then? To power a JPAC?

3) you don't need 150 ohms for R1, 100 ohms should be perfect.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Quinny on June 03, 2009, 10:04:02 am
Hello,

OK I have configured my cable thus:

VGA ground, VGA 6, 7 and 8 (RGB ground) all twisted together to SCART 17.
VGA 1, 2 and 3 to SCART 15, 11 and 7 respectively.
VGA 13 and 14 twisted together to SCART 20.
Molex (red) 5V with 100 Ohm 1W 5% tolerance resistor to SCART 16.
Molex (black) ground twisted together to SCART 18.
Molex (yellow) 12V to SCART 8.

This cable still does not work on my NEC TV but works lovely on our widescreen (which is a Sansui). The molex cable made no difference to the result I was getting with the pin 20->16 or the AA battery.

What I can see with the NEC TV is that it detects the H sync + V sync (because the screen stops scrolling) but there is just no picture at all and no colours are detected.

I guess the only thing left to try with this TV is to access the service menu and see if there's an option to accept RGB.

Otherwise I will see if I can trade it for a similar sized one which has the right scart plug, or save up my money and get an arcade chassis as Zebidee mentions.

This is for a different model NEC, it might work for your NEC:
"Select DISPLAY MODE. Press PROCEED.
Press and hold RESET. Then simultaneous
press + & -. 'Warning Entering Service Menu'
appears. Press PROCEED for enter."

Thanks for trying but I don't have those options available.

Quote
The main benefit I have found is that the new arcade chassis is more reliable and usually better picture than an old TV. Joey will give you telephone support for any issues you have, and will accept the chassis back for repair if there are any problems (usually free for recent purchases, and cheap otherwise). If something stuffs up in your TV. you are pretty much tied to taking it to a TV repair guy, and those are getting harder to find and more expensive. I have gone the arcade monitor option when I have had problems with TVs previously. Better than agonising over repairs to esoteric and obsolete electronics.

Thanks. If I still have the TV and enough funds in a couple of months I will definitely look into this.

Thanks for all your help Zebidee!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 03, 2009, 12:12:48 pm
That's real bad luck and I'm sorry to hear that, Quinny. Having a SCART TV that doesn't work in RGB. Gotta say that is pretty rare (I saw it just once before with a "Goldstar" branded TV). You should have better luck with another SCART TV if you can find one - at least you know that the cable is perfect!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: sevenleaf on June 03, 2009, 03:07:23 pm
I am about to make my own VGA to SCART cable for my Sony 27" CRT (although I may have to house it in a box as I don't think I can get it small enough to fit within the SCART casing). I like the simplicity of the one on the first post, but I would like to add in a function to protect the TV during boot up.

Has anyone on here either built or have any comments on this circuitry?

(http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/scartdd.png)

(http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/en_pic.png)

Source: http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/scart.htm

1) Seems that you don't need to link the 12v from SCART pin 8 -> R2 -> pin 16 at all.

2) What does "enable input" go to? is that taking 5v then? To power a JPAC?

3) you don't need 150 ohms for R1, 100 ohms should be perfect.

Thanks Zebidee for taking the time to reply.

1) I was wondering the same - I think the R2 link is only there as the PIC circuit is optional.

2) I think it's the link between the 2 circuits (because the PIC is optional)

3) Cheers :)

I have emailed the guy who designed the circuits to see if he can shed any light on this. Just got to wait for the PIC programming unit and the other components to arrive and then I can crack on with making it :)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 03, 2009, 09:13:17 pm
Sevenleaf, you should have a look at the tiny PCB board member Arcadebliss posted earlier in this thread.

Another way to auto-cut the high-frequency signals without using as PIC programmer is to use a JPAC. JPAC will automatically cut out anything not 15khz (or 25khz), and can automatically cut 31khz into two 15khz signals (which is why some people say that they can see two screens when their Soft15khz or whatever isn't working properly).

If you run JPAC-SCART then you must also put 75ohm resistors on the R-G-B signals, otherwise they are too bright (JPAC voltages are higher, designed for arcade monitors and this would not be good long-term for your TV). Sync is fine as-is. However, 3 75 ohm resistors (6 cents each!) and a JPAC is a lot easier than making that circuit you showed us earlier, especially if you are already ising the JPAC as a keyboard interface and/or LED controller.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on June 24, 2009, 11:40:36 am
Sorry for bumping this back up :)

I just noticed that several of my AMIGA-to-SCART cables I have flying around here have +5v wired directly to Pin 16, and +12V wired to Pin 8, and they all work fine with my pretty old Grundig TV.


So I got a little curious.
I remember I've seen several SCART pinouts that state Pin 16 only has an input range up to 3V, while others say 5v.

So I've started to fool around with several (older) TVs over here.

Actually it seems you don't need +12V on Pin 8 and you don't need +5V either.
EVERY single TV I've tried works fine WITHOUT Pin 8 connected to anything.
The only "use" of it is to switch between a FORCED 16/9 or 4/3 mode. Some TVs also power on and switch to channel AV by themself if you supply power there.


Also every single of those TVs worked fine with +5V feed to Pin 16 instead of just 3V.
None of the blew up or something like that.


Conclusion... Though it may not work with every single SCART TV out there, the absolut simplest VGA-SCART cable would be:

Code: [Select]
VGA - SCART
 1  -  15   R
 2  -  11   G
 3  -   7   B

 6  -  13   R-GND
 7  -   9   G-GND
 8  -   5   B-GND

13  -  20   Sync
14  -  20   Sync

 5  -  17   GND

 9  -  16   RGB-Switch

I've modified my VGA-SCART cable that way and have yet to find a TV that does not work.

Also a friend pointet out that you can connect Pin 19 (Composite Out) to Pin 16, as the Composite Video has a signal level of 1V, which also should be enough to switch to RGB mode.
However I haven't yet tried that.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 26, 2009, 05:56:13 am
Hi Sailor! Yes, you are pretty much right there about the no real need for 12v to pin 8. However, it does help to have the TV auto-switching to AV mode. What it comes down to is that, in most cases, you just need to make a simple cable that does what you need it to rather than adding on too many bells and whistles.

The only TVs that I have absolutely needed 12v to pin 8 for are TEAC TVs, and maybe AKAI but I'm not 100% sure.   Oh, and there was one Sony PVM2730 I had once that had something wrong with the AV mode selector, so I used the 12v option.

The 5v to VGA pin 9 is only supported by some video cards, which includes ATI (& ArcadeVGA). And many VGA cables (e.g. recycled from old monitors, & even some VGA extension cables) do not even have a pin 9, which makes things a bit trickier again.

In many cases I dispense with the 5v as well, and just link SCART pin 20 to pin 16 for RGB mode activation. This works absolutely fine in 80% of cases and is really simple to make, no power inputs and no resistors or anything like that.

What brands of TVs were you testing?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on June 26, 2009, 07:01:03 am
2 Grundig (one older 50Hz and a newer 100Hz one)
1 Thompson (rear projection)
1 Blaupunkt (I actually was suprised that ancient piece had a scart socket!)
several others as iirc one universum and once orion
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 26, 2009, 06:28:48 pm
2 Grundig (one older 50Hz and a newer 100Hz one)
1 Thompson (rear projection)
1 Blaupunkt (I actually was suprised that ancient piece had a scart socket!)
several others as iirc one universum and once orion

Directly linking SCART pin 20 -> 16 should most likely work well for the Grundigs, Thompson and Blaupunkt, even the 100mhz Grundig. I don't know about the universum & orion brands though.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: sinkhead on July 01, 2009, 06:27:52 pm
Hi,

Sorry if I'm being dim, but why is pin 18 (Composite video input ground) connected to the Molex return?

Pin 14 and the SCART casing are the return for the two currents coming from the Molex plug.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 02, 2009, 03:10:30 am
Hi,

Sorry if I'm being dim, but why is pin 18 (Composite video input ground) connected to the Molex return?

Pin 14 and the SCART casing are the return for the two currents coming from the Molex plug.

Many thanks.

You're looking at some other pinout, I think, and not the one that we are referring to,(or perhaps confusing the SCART output pins for the input pins).

Composite video ground = SCART pin 17
RGB blanking ground = SCART pin 18

Look here for more info: http://pinouts.ru/Home/Scart_pinout.shtml

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: sinkhead on July 02, 2009, 05:50:20 am
Ah, thanks. Things make much more sense now. I was referring to the pinout on Wikipedia, by the way.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: technocop on October 12, 2009, 08:40:00 am
Hi Guys,

I knocked together this lead, and I think it's sort of working.

The colours all look fine, but the screen is constantly "rolling".

When I had my arcade monitor working, and I had a rolling screen, I would adjust the vertical and horizontal pots to get a steady image. This *looks* like the same issue?

Is there anything I can do about this, can I make similar adjustemts in the tv's service mode?

It's an old Toshiba (1721TB), I have no idea how to get into service mode. Google wasn't much help. Anyone know where I might find out??
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on October 12, 2009, 11:32:44 am
What is your video input source?

Assuming your software is outputting the sync correctly, it sounds like your cable's vertical sync isn't connected properly.

Connect VGA 13 + 14 (hsync + vsync, twist together) to SCART 20

Make sure that all grounds are grounded, esp. VGA 10 (sync gnd).

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: technocop on October 12, 2009, 01:16:36 pm
duhhh...

I hadn't wired up pin 14 (didn't read all the posts here carefully), all working now, thanks :cheers:

The interlaced modes don't look as good as my old arcade monitor, but what you said in my other thread was spot-on, it looks very nice indeed with my arcadeVGA. Pleased with the results, much easier and cheaper than getting hold of a new arcade monitor.

Only problem is that some modes get lines cut off. And I'm also missing a very thin strip down the left of the screen I presume I can adjust the geomety in the service menu, but I have no idea how to get to it!

Would anyone here know where I could find this information?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on October 14, 2009, 05:19:04 am
Try this (below), which I've seen for other Toshiba models. But don't ask me what it means, except that by "keyboard" I *guess* they mean the remote. One usually needs an original remote to get access to service modes - universal remotes usually don't cut it, although you might get lucky

Quote
"Press 'MUTE' button. Press and hold 'MUTE'
button and press 'MENU' on local keyboard."
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: technocop on November 03, 2009, 04:55:46 pm
Try this (below), which I've seen for other Toshiba models. But don't ask me what it means, except that by "keyboard" I *guess* they mean the remote. One usually needs an original remote to get access to service modes - universal remotes usually don't cut it, although you might get lucky

Quote
"Press 'MUTE' button. Press and hold 'MUTE'
button and press 'MENU' on local keyboard."

I don't have the original remote, but I'm pretty sure it didn't have a "menu" button.

I have a Logitech Harmony, so I reckon I could I could probably access it...IF I knew what the commands were...

cheers anyway...
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Em on November 08, 2009, 05:57:02 pm
Hello,

I've got an ArcadeVGA card hooked up to my TV via a hand made VGA to SCART cable. The ArcadeVGA is the PCIe (Radeon HD2400 based) one. The TV is a really old Sony KV-25F1U. The TV does support an RGB signal. The PC is running XP SP3. The cable started off as an Ultimarc VGA breakout cable and it seems to work OK. The Windows boot screens display correctly and I can get a Windows desktop displayed at 640x480 interlaced without a problem. But I'm having trouble getting some of the other resolutions working in Windows. Specifically the non-interlaced resolution of 640x288. When I use quickres to switch to 640x288 I get a picture but with a very fast vertical scroll. It looks like an vsync problem. Here is how my cable is wired up:

VGA      SCART
1   ->   15
2   ->   11
3   ->   7
6   ->   13
7   ->   9
8   ->   5
10   ->   17
13,14   ->   20
5   ->   21

PC Power         SCART
+12v   ->         8
+5v   ->   100Ohms   ->   16
0v   ->         18

Audio      SCART
Left   ->   6
Ground   ->   4
Right   ->   2

So I have both VGA sync pins (13 and 14) connected to SCART pin 20. I tried some of the other resolutions out too (all in Windows at the moment not MAME). 240x240 worked OK, as did 256x240. When I went up to 256x256 though, I just got a black screen and had to reboot into XPs VGA mode. I've also tried rebuilding Windows and reinstalling the AVGA drivers. Still the same thing. One thing on the cable I wasn't sure about was connecting VGA pin 5 to SCART pin 21. Both are grounds. I've tried with those pins connected and disconnected and it doesn't make any difference.

So I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to try next. Hence this post. I'm after some advice! Does this sound like a VGA-SCART cable problem? Or a Windows driver problem? Maybe I've got a duff ArcadeVGA card? Or maybe it's the ancient TV I'm trying to use? Or have I just done something really daft in my wiring above!? Any thoughts gratefully received. This forum has been extremely useful in getting to this point. And thanks for reading this far. (Sorry for the long post!)

Em.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on November 23, 2009, 03:22:53 am
Em

Sorry for the late post.

From the way you describe it, the SCART cable seems fine. If it works at one res it will work for another. I think that your problem is that your TV is old, or at least doesn't accept a large range of sync frequencies. Every TV is a bit different. Some older TVs don't like doing > 240 lines. I have an old Sony TV that won't do > 240 lines but does interlaced modes like 640x480, and a Sony 21" professional video monitor that does 640x288 flawlessly but just won't do 640x480!

Remember that 640x480 is an interlaced mode, and 640x288 is non-interlaced - Your TV is capable of 240 vertical lines (240x2=480) and does interlacing, but it seems that it can't do 288 vertical lines without scrolling (have you tried a V-Hold knob?).

cheers, Zeb
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on November 23, 2009, 03:33:59 am
.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Em on November 23, 2009, 06:32:00 pm
Hi Zeb,

thanks for the info. I think I need to get a TV that's slightly less old then! I'm not sure if there's a v-hold knob inside the set and I don't really want to open it up. I did try getting into the service menus on it a few times to see if there were some settings I could adjust, but entering the sequence of buttons on the remote causes the whole TV to freeze. It wont even turn on. Have to disconnect the power for a minute or so to let it recover!

Thanks again.

Em.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: ceekay011 on December 02, 2009, 05:17:53 pm
hello everyone

trying to connect a vga to scart on my hantarex CT EQ/3 28"  : http://www.hantarex.be/BtoB/pdf/cteq3.pdf (http://www.hantarex.be/BtoB/pdf/cteq3.pdf)
i have made a cable without the 12v : : http://www.alvarezeninternet.com/mamescart/scartuk.jpg (http://www.alvarezeninternet.com/mamescart/scartuk.jpg)
know i am having broblems with the colors....on the back of monitor there is a switch from video to rgb to off , and when i switch between rgb and of i get a spit second good collors  ??? alsow wen i tik the ground cabels from vga to some of the pins on the scart the same thing happens .
sorry if my english and discripsion isnt that good . 

s-video
(http://ceekay011.webs.com/PC020001.JPG)

vga to scart
(http://ceekay011.webs.com/PC020009.JPG)
(http://ceekay011.webs.com/PC020010.JPG)

mamewah front made with  photoshop  ;D
(http://ceekay011.webs.com/Gameroom.jpg)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 05, 2009, 03:20:14 am
@ceekay

I thiink the reason why your TV doesn't work so well is because you don't have any RGB switching signal @ SCART pin 18 16.

BTW, to be consistent w/ earlier posts, in this thread I am referring to this SCART pinout chart:

http://pinouts.ru/Home/Scart_pinout.shtml (http://pinouts.ru/Home/Scart_pinout.shtml)

In earlier parts of this thread, you can find instructions on various ways to get the ~ 1-3 volts you need to this pin.

The easiest way may be: cut a small piece of wire ~ 3-4cm long (about 1.5 inches) and make a 'bridge' from pin 20 (sync) to pin 18 16. But this doesn't work for all TVs.

If your cable has the right wires, and you have an ATI video card (inc ArcadeVGA) or other card, you can tap into the 5v on VGA pin 9. Put a 100ohm resistor on the end of the 5v wire (VGA pin 9 ) and attach it to pin 18 16.

Best way is to hack a standard molex power supply cable (the big one with 4 wires: yellow, black, black, red). You need the red wire (5v) and one black wire (it doesn't matter which one). Extend the cable (ie solder some wires on) and feed the ends into your SCART header. Put 100 ohm resistor on the 5v red wire (now it is 2v), and attach to SCART pin 18 16. Attach the black ground wire to pin 16 18.

Bet you this works!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: ceekay011 on December 06, 2009, 05:54:09 pm
wil Try tis out and report back on the forum if it works Zebidee  :)
i have vga 13 to scart 20 and vga 14 to scart 18 and a bridge from 20 to 18 , is this good ?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 07, 2009, 07:23:04 am
wil Try tis out and report back on the forum if it works Zebidee  :)
i have vga 13 to scart 20 and vga 14 to scart 18 and a bridge from 20 to 18 , is this good ?

No. you need to twist VGA 13+14 together and attach to SCART 20. The bridge from SCART 20 to 18 is good.
The bridge should be from SCART 20 -> 16

If that 'bridge' doesn't work well, you should try one of the 5v + 100ohm resistor methods.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: maiki on December 07, 2009, 09:12:59 am
There is NO quality difference in picture between a "real" arcade monitor or a TV that is used with RGB.

There is a very good reason why you should not go for TV and get yourself arcade monitor instead. I was testing 2 EU CRT TVs back in 2004 with Advance MAME and ADVV utility. Those TVs were not able to display full 240 active scanlines at 60 Hz. Period. Reason being probably the electronics or whatever that drives the picture is not designed so well as arcade gaming monitors. For the same reasons none of the home consoles display full active 240 scanlines at 60 Hz. You always get lower number. Atari VCS as low as 192 (depends on carts really)... most consoles end up on 224 active scanlines at 60 Hz. Period. That being said, you will never get the same quality with consumer CRT TV as you would with real gaming  arcade CRT monitor.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: ceekay011 on December 08, 2009, 12:46:58 pm
Best way is to hack a standard molex power supply cable (the big one with 4 wires: yellow, black, black, red). You need the red wire (5v) and one black wire (it doesn't matter which one). Extend the cable (ie solder some wires on) and feed the ends into your SCART header. Put 100 ohm resistor on the 5v red wire (now it is 2v), and attach to SCART pin 18. Attach the black ground wire to pin 16.

Bet you this works!

[/quote]

it did not work

cant get any image

only have image when i connect vga 13 to scart 20 and vga 14 to scart 18 and a bridge from 20 to 18

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: ceekay011 on December 09, 2009, 04:00:41 pm
Got it to work :)


(http://ceekay011.webs.com/schema_con_resistenzekopie.jpg)

The 12V kabel is optional

thanks to all for the advice  :applaud:
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 09, 2009, 08:05:48 pm
@ceekay011  - that cable seems a bit crazy, but if it works for you then it works!

@maiki

TVs are variable, but generally better quality than arcade monitors. Most arcade monitors have pretty cheap/poor quality components inc. tubes, but are more flexible (e.g. viewable screen size, adjusting overscan) than TVs.

The right TV is fantastic, poops all over most arcade monitors. Looks like you got some dud TVs. I always go for good quality Euro brands like Thomson, Loewe & Grundig etc.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: ceekay011 on December 12, 2009, 05:59:36 am
@Zebidee

what do you find crazy on the cable ?

 
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 12, 2009, 07:08:30 am
@Zebidee
what do you find crazy on the cable ?

Hmmm. I made a mistake in some of my recent posts: SCART 16 is RGB switching, not SCART 18. Very, very sorry about that! It may have probably caused you some frustrations. I think I'll go and edit my earlier posts to fix the errors in case someone else follows them.

Anyway, moving on, this is what I find crazy:

1) You direct VGA14 (Vsync) -> SCART 16, which has nothing to do with sync! SCART 16 is for RGB switching.

2) shorting/bridging SCART 16 -> 20 is good, but it now means that you are effectively twisting VGA 13+14 together anyway (which was recommended earlier)

3) Why do you need the 1k resistors on sync lines? This might cause you some sync problems. But if all is OK, then what can i say!

I imagine that you might have some interference on the sync. You might find that the sync improves if you just twist VGA13+14 together and hook them up to SCART 20, either with or without the 1k resistors.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on December 12, 2009, 07:45:46 pm
@Zebidee
what do you find crazy on the cable ?

Hmmm. I made a mistake in some of my recent posts: SCART 16 is RGB switching, not SCART 18. Very, very sorry about that! It may have probably caused you some frustrations. I think I'll go and edit my earlier posts to fix the errors in case someone else follows them.

As indicated in the very first posting in this thread  :D :D :D :D

hey, we're only human :D
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 12, 2009, 08:37:33 pm
@Zebidee
what do you find crazy on the cable ?

Hmmm. I made a mistake in some of my recent posts: SCART 16 is RGB switching, not SCART 18. Very, very sorry about that! It may have probably caused you some frustrations. I think I'll go and edit my earlier posts to fix the errors in case someone else follows them.

As indicated in the very first posting in this thread  :D :D :D :D

hey, we're only human :D

Corrections have been made to earlier posts ....

@Level42 - It occurs to me that people actually read this thread through from the beginning (5 pages now!), then they would be able to answer most questions themselves.

My work has been flat out lately. Sometimes responses are written off the top of my head, in a few rare moments during infrequent breaks, often in a rush before 'the boss' comes out and wonders what I'm up to. Mistakes are regrettable but bound to happen  :dunno

Wanna know what I've been working on so frantically? Check out the #bbfuture (Broadband Future) hashtag on Twitter. Became the most popular hashtag in Australia, and most popular topic on Twitter in Australia except for Christmas, over past few days.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Level42 on December 13, 2009, 11:45:56 am
Man, you're doing a fabulous job on maintaining this thread. All I did was gather some bits of info and open the thread with it.

What you say is probably right, every answer should be in here by now.... :D

And congrats on your work, although I have no clue what you're talking about. I know Twitter, took a look at it and de-installed it after a week. I probably miss the point, or am finally getting "too old for this stuff". :D
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 13, 2009, 02:37:07 pm
Man, you're doing a fabulous job on maintaining this thread. All I did was gather some bits of info and open the thread with it.

What you say is probably right, every answer should be in here by now.... :D

And congrats on your work, although I have no clue what you're talking about. I know Twitter, took a look at it and de-installed it after a week. I probably miss the point, or am finally getting "too old for this stuff". :D

Thx Level42!

BTW, Twitter is not 'installed' - you make an account and can access it through a web interface. It is a popular online social comms tool but is not for everyone. In particular it is meaningless unless you link to other people ('tweeple') and follow them/are followed.

However, the info you can get out of Twitter feeds can be invaluable for tapping into the 'pulse', as it was for #bbfuture (http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23bbfuture).

I don't want to sidetrak the thread, but if you want an old-skool way of understanding what I was talking about, click here for broadband future (http://broadbandfuture.gov.au/).
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: ceekay011 on December 14, 2009, 12:00:58 pm
@Zebidee
what do you find crazy on the cable ?

Hmmm. I made a mistake in some of my recent posts: SCART 16 is RGB switching, not SCART 18. Very, very sorry about that! It may have probably caused you some frustrations. I think I'll go and edit my earlier posts to fix the errors in case someone else follows them.


I was a bit wonderd about the "SCART 16 is RGB switching, not SCART 18"   ??? but i did read the other post and saw that you made a mistake  ;)

1) i will see again if the sync works like you sade in the post

3) 1K i saw it other forum http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigilander.libero.it%2Fventuri1975%2F (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigilander.libero.it%2Fventuri1975%2F) wood be safer for the tv , doint know if it true

what of interference on the sync do you mean ?

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 18, 2009, 02:31:25 pm
1) i will see again if the sync works like you sade in the post

3) 1K i saw it other forum http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigilander.libero.it%2Fventuri1975%2F (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigilander.libero.it%2Fventuri1975%2F) wood be safer for the tv , doint know if it true

what of interference on the sync do you mean ?

Sync input standards for most SCART TVs is actually 1-5v! It is only the RGB inputs that need to be 0-1v.

Many video cards output sync at close to 4.5 to 5v - it varies a little.

A JPAC fro Ultimarc will actually pull this down slightly, and output sync at around 3.3-3.5v

Pull the sync voltage lower than 3v and you may have problems with your TV accepting the sync signal.

I've tried lowering the JPAC's 3.5v further with a 75ohm resistor to around 2.0 -2.5v, and had problems locking into the sync - the top part of the screen was out diagonally. Tried another TV and got the same result. Tried another TV and it was OK, but harder to sync in. Removing the resistor solved the problems

Key lessons from this:

1) don't put a resistor on the sync in line, because SCART accepts 1-5v already  OR
2a) only use a 47ohm or max 75ohm resistor on (which should lower the VGA sync voltage from 5v -> about 3v) AND
2b) use a multimeter & keep part of the sync wire exposed around the resistor so that you can test the voltages while in use.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Kman-Sweden on January 11, 2010, 10:48:14 am
Finally, to access the Service Mode, you must first select program 91 and set "Sharpness" to minimum, then very quickly press "Red", "Green" and "Menu" in turn, then "OK".
Bloody hell! Does it say "Simon says" in the beginning?  ;D
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Eversynth on January 17, 2010, 10:43:19 pm
Hi all. I have a strange problem with my vga-scart cable/TV, and I'm in need of help.

I have 2 TVs, and 2 graphics cards on the same PC.

In the first TV (we'll call this the "BAD TV"), both my arcade PC and my Nintendo Wii are connected to the same scart RGB port, using an adapter. Obviously I have only one device on at any time, the PC or the Wii.

In the second TV (we'll call this the "GOOD TV") my VGA-Scart Cable works flawlessy, with both the first and second graphics card.

In the BAD TV, the colors have a defect I cannot describe. It's evident when looking at the "color bar" in the card properties, under color depth: the color aren't distinct, red green and blue blend: red blends with purple, cyan with yellow, green is faint. Yellow and purple show fine.
But, if I look at the icons on the desktop there's no color bleeding/shifting: red, green and blue look fine on their own.

Now the strange thing: If I connect both the vga-scart and the Wii Scart cable (Wii powered off, not connected to AC adapter), the colors are correct. If I connect only the vga-scart, the colors have the problem described above.
The same cable when connected to the second TV (Good TV) works fine.

So, I investigated what was different in the Wii Scart cable even with the Wii not connected to power, and it looks like Red and Green get between +1,5v and 2,4v, while Blue gets between -1,5v and -2,4v (yes). Those values were misured with my multimeter, using the voltmeter and testing scart pin 17 as ground and the red,green blue scart pins. The other pins don't affect the signal. Only pin 17 acts as ground, the other grounds are not present in the Wii RGB scart cable.

In short, looks like my BAD TV would prefer having a "stronger" colour signal, where the Good TV doesn't care.

Any idea on how to solve this, other than keeping the wii-scart cable connected at all times?

I would change the TV with a newer one, but new CRTs are hard to find and I don't have money. :(

There must be a way to make it work...

Any and all help appreciated.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 18, 2010, 07:04:58 am
We need more information ....

Q1 Exactly how is your VGA-SCART cable wired?
Q2 What brand TVs are we talking about?
Q3 What video card are you using?

I don't think that voltage levels are the problem.

Does the colour work when just the wii cable is plugged in, and not the Wii itself? I suspect the presence of the cable is detected by the TV and it responds by auto-selecting composite for the Wii cable and RGB for the VGA-SCART cable. I suspect that your VGA-SCART cable is not doing this properly by itself.

We need to know how your VGA-SCART cable is wired. So far my guess is that it has something to do with your cable's grounds or perhaps RGB/mode signals. Different TVs have different levels of fussiness about these things.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Eversynth on January 18, 2010, 10:03:36 am
Sorry for not providing more informations earlier. I have conducted various tests, and I'm still going mad.

I am using PCI (not PCIe) ATI Radeon 9250 with 128MB RAM.

My VGA-SCART cable is wired in the simplest manner:
VGA 13&14 twisted together to get composite, connected to scart pin 20.
A bridge between scart pin 20 & pin 16 to give it the rgb signal. If pin 16 is not connected the TV can't display the image even when setting it to EURO AV.
The R G and B colors connected to the proper pins on SCART.
All grounds (R G B, vga pin 10 and VGA chassis ground) twisted together and connected to scart pin 5 (blue ground).

I have tried various grounding combinations (the ground colors where separated before), nothing changes. The scart pin 16 gets 2,4v, so it's within standards 4,5v, turns out the measurements done on the scart end of the vga cable were different than those who arrived at the TV.

The color doesn't work with only the Scart Wii Cable. It needs to be shorted to the Wii.
NOTE: in the wii only scart pins 17, 15, 11  and 7 need to be connected for this to work. I disconnected all the other pins, they have no effect.

The same thing applies when using a gamecube and its rgb cable instead of the wii.
The TV is generic, a no-brand. I don't know the manufacturer.

NB: The TV is not so old as I make it sound. I purchased it in 2006. It has menu options even for color modes (Pal, secam, two different ntsc, auto), but they don't solve the problem.

UPDATE:
Sacre Bleu!
If I put a 1N4148 diode between Scart Pin20 and scart Pin17 (that is now empty), the colors show fine!

UPDATE 2:
So, I noticed that, with the Wii connected, the voltage on pins 15 11 and 7 was around -4,5v (using pin 17 as ground).
Since I have +4,5v on pin 20, I used that.
The diode is added like this: Pin20 ->|- Pin17.

Now I can't keep the Wii scart connected, or the image gets darker (dim), and with a little distortion between high contrast elements (brights objects on black background).

Any idea on what's going on is appreciated...
(The Wii has been used a lot of times. The PC has seen a lot less use as of later.)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 18, 2010, 05:31:29 pm
It occurs to me that your VGA-SCART cable has no ground at pin 17! This is probably the most important grounding pin.

But when the Wii cable is plugged in, the Wii provides a ground for pin 17 (even when turned off). I suspect that the pin 17s on both of your TV's SCART inputs are common.

You should try hooking ground up to pin 17 on your VGA-SCART cable. Have you tested for continuity between your gnd at SCART pin 5 and pin 17? You might find that they are not common & therefore that there is no ground for your sync signal. Bridge these pins with a short wire.


Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Eversynth on January 18, 2010, 07:44:57 pm
Quote
This is probably the most important grounding pin.
Good to know, so that's why in Wii & gamecube cable that's the only ground wired.

But I have to tell that before wiring up the VGA-SCART the way I have now, it was different:
I had:
Code: [Select]
VGA 13 & 14 - Scart 20
VGA 10 - Scart 17
VGA R G B to Proper Scart R G B
VGA R G B grounds to Proper Scart R G B grounds
Scart 16 bridge with Scart 20
VGA shield ground to Scart shield ground

In fact, the second VGA-Scart cable is still wired like this. And it works fine only in the second, "Good TV".

The VGA pin 10 ground in Scart 17 ground doesn't affect at all the outcome.
Quote
Bridge these pins with a short wire.
In the new cable I already tried shorting Scart Pin 5 (all grounds) with Scart Pin 17, to no avail.

The only solution seems to be using the 5v coming from the vga 13&14 and put it on scart 17 with the diode, to get the needed(?) negative voltage on the scart R G B pins. :/
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 19, 2010, 02:10:58 am
You've got me - I can't see why you have the problem, nor truly understand why the diode helps. Which way around was it?

You could try the 5v -> 100ohm resistor -> 2v -> SCART pin 16 (and gnd to pin 18) trick. This might give you a more consistent RGB switching signal.

I'll normally use this kind of cable, also with 12v at pin 8, as a 'baseline' cable for SCART TVs. I have one lying around somewhere in casew I need it. I have never yet seen a RGB SCART TV that not accept this input and give a clear picture.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Eversynth on January 19, 2010, 09:06:34 am
Quote
nor truly understand why the diode helps. Which way around was it?
The diode ground on pin 17, the other on pin 20.
It helps in giving current to the colors signal, albeit a negative one. The reason why it works only with pin 20 could have something to do with the sync signal coming from it.
I don't know what's going on.
The only logical explanation is that the TV needs some voltage in the RGB pins.
Without my trick the Vga outputs only between +0,01v and +0,02v there.

Maybe something broke in the tv, even if it seems unlikely.

All of this started because I wanted to add the 12v on pin 8 and 2v on pin 16, and then (maybe for the first time with the Wii disconnected) I noticed the colors problem. :)
It wasn't even really noticeable without looking at a color gradients pattern.

I don't know if something in the tv might have broken when I connected the 12v coming from the PC molex to the scart (it was a little higher, between 12v and 12,5v).
For sure it worked, switching automatically to the correct AV channel.
I'll think later about adding those again.

In the meantime I will have to keep the PC and TV on for an unprecised amount of time, to see if something breaks....  :timebomb:  :D
I'll let you know if everything keeps working after testing.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 20, 2010, 02:11:56 am
If RGB signal levels are the problem, then you could try running the RGB signals through a video amplifier, which you can find on a JPAC. Ultimarc also sell video amps separately. They are reasonably priced, only $21.

http://www.ultimarc.com/vidamp.html (http://www.ultimarc.com/vidamp.html)

If you try this, I'm very interested to know the result.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: LeedsFan on April 25, 2010, 11:32:38 am
I've had a go at making my own RGB-Scart cable this morning, but it hasn't gone too well. I'm using the Ultimarc ArcadeVGA card and a VGA breakout cable also from Ultimarc. This cable had the wires labeled for easy reference. (Red, Green, Blue, HSync, VSync and Ground)

What I did was follow the instructions here and soldered the R G B wires to scart pins 15, 11 and 7 respectively. HSync and VSync I wired together and soldered to scart pin 20. I understand this is fine on ATI based cards as they put out -ve on each sync. I then soldered a short jump wire across from pin 20 to pin 16 to try and get the 2-3V ouput there.

Now the breakout cable I have has five different ground wires to just one pin. So all I did was put all these ground wires to pin 13. I didn't solder each R G B ground (or "return" as some people call it) to individual pins. Does this matter? I have no idea which are the separate R G B grounds anyway as these individual grounds aren't labelled.  The cable just has five wires which are all put together and labeled "ground".

When I tried the cable I actually do get an image. But it's just a grey, shadowy image with no colour what-so-ever.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 25, 2010, 12:38:12 pm
It is extra effort, but it looks like you should try making your cable with 5v input + 100ohm resistor => 2v on pin 16
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: LeedsFan on April 25, 2010, 03:00:34 pm
It is extra effort, but it looks like you should try making your cable with 5v input + 100ohm resistor => 2v on pin 16

OK I will try that. Just need to get some resistors tomorrow.

But I thought (with my extremely limited knowledge) that if I am getting an image then the jumper wire is doing it's job. I thought it was like a switch.. it's either on or off. And because I'm getting an image then the jumper wire is doing it's job. Or this not how it works at all?  :dunno  Does more/less voltage at pin 16 change matters?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 26, 2010, 11:04:40 am
I've seen this before - Looks like your TV is not properly into RGB mode.

TV is likely looking for composite video and getting some picture signal (e.g. sync) from pin 20 but not proper RGB. You need to add the signal to pin 16 to get the TV to look for signals on pins 7,11,15 (B,G,R)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: LeedsFan on April 26, 2010, 02:14:01 pm
I've seen this before - Looks like your TV is not properly into RGB mode.

TV is likely looking for composite video and getting some picture signal (e.g. sync) from pin 20 but not proper RGB. You need to add the signal to pin 16 to get the TV to look for signals on pins 7,11,15 (B,G,R)

OK I got some 75 ohm resistors today. But before doing anything I checked my connections with a multimeter. I was already getting 4.3 volts at pin 16 with the jump wire from pin 20. However I decided to solder in the resistor and use a separate 5V supply from the PC molex. It hasn't made any difference.  :banghead:

In fact... when I test the voltage at pin 16 with the resistor in line I still get a reading of 5V. Isn't the resistor supposed to lower this voltage? Can this be affecting the picture? Too high a voltage at pin 16?  :dunno

EDIT:  Seem I misread your first post on page 1 Zebidee. I read that you thought 75 ohm resistor gave better results... but on rereading your post you were talking about special cases where resistors were used on the RGB cables.... NOT the switching wire at pin 16. DOH!!!  :banghead:

That's why I got the 75 ohm resistor and not 100 ohm.  :dizzy:  I will get 100 ohm tomorrow and get that voltage stepped down. Having scoured the net it seems that 3V is the maximum that pin 16 should take for RGB switching. Hope I can't damage anything by what I've done so far.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 27, 2010, 05:26:06 am
In fact... when I test the voltage at pin 16 with the resistor in line I still get a reading of 5V. Isn't the resistor supposed to lower this voltage? Can this be affecting the picture? Too high a voltage at pin 16?  :dunno

You must have done something wrong if the voltage is still 5v past the resistor  :dunno

... oh, make sure that you have the cable attached to the  TV and on when you test it with your multimeter, because otherwise you won't be properly completing the circuit.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: LeedsFan on April 27, 2010, 12:02:32 pm
In fact... when I test the voltage at pin 16 with the resistor in line I still get a reading of 5V. Isn't the resistor supposed to lower this voltage? Can this be affecting the picture? Too high a voltage at pin 16?  :dunno

You must have done something wrong if the voltage is still 5v past the resistor  :dunno

... oh, make sure that you have the cable attached to the  TV and on when you test it with your multimeter, because otherwise you won't be properly completing the circuit.

I'm at a loss here. I put the jumper wire back on over pins 20-16 and then retested the voltage with the plug in and TV switched on. I'm getting a reading of 2.5V at pin 16. The picture is still the same. If I have nothing attached to pin 16 it's still the same. Nothing I do with pin 16 seems to help. Is 2.5V still too high? I have all the ground wires from the Ultimarc breakout cable attached to pin 13. The only other ground is at pin 18 (ground for 12V at pin 8 )

EDIT:  Hold on... I've been a right mong here... I just noticed all my RGB and Ground wires are on the wrong pins. What a ---missioncontrol---.  :banghead:  BRB... recitifying buffoonery....
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 27, 2010, 12:51:48 pm
EDIT:  Hold on... I've been a right mong here... I just noticed all my RGB and Ground wires are on the wrong pins. What a ---missioncontrol---.  :banghead:  BRB... recitifying buffoonery....

Ahhh - Good luck with that! Let us know how it goes.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: LeedsFan on April 27, 2010, 01:48:41 pm
EDIT:  Hold on... I've been a right mong here... I just noticed all my RGB and Ground wires are on the wrong pins. What a ---missioncontrol---.  :banghead:  BRB... recitifying buffoonery....

Ahhh - Good luck with that! Let us know how it goes.


Still no luck. Now I just get a black screen on AV channel.

I didn't have the RGB wires on pin 15, 11 and 7 before. They were on 13, 9 and 5 with grounds at 11. I was misreading the pin numbers the wrong "side". Really thought I'd solved the problem when I saw I'd done that.  :dunno
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 27, 2010, 02:28:18 pm
Clear your head and look at it again. What brand TV?

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: LeedsFan on April 27, 2010, 02:42:44 pm
Clear your head and look at it again. What brand TV?



It's a Roadstar CTV1020. It's only a 10" screen which is perfect for the bartop.

EDIT: I'm beginning to wonder if this TV doesn't accept RGB signal... only composite. I can plug my Skybox in to the TV and get a picture. Skybox is set to RGB but would I still get composite signal if the TV scart didn't accept RGB? I was also able to plug XBox360 into it and get a picture.

Any sure way way to check if the scart does accept RGB or not? I don't have a manual or remote control for this TV unfortunately.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 27, 2010, 06:37:54 pm
It happenned to me once: A Goldstar (= Sh!tstar) branded TV with SCART input that only accepted composite through pin 20 - ARRRRRGH! Your Roadstar sounds suspiciously similar.

I think that the only way to be sure is to whip the back off the TV and see if you can trace any RGB signal lines going from the SCART into the video input stage.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: LeedsFan on April 28, 2010, 12:00:21 pm
It happenned to me once: A Goldstar (= Sh!tstar) branded TV with SCART input that only accepted composite through pin 20 - ARRRRRGH! Your Roadstar sounds suspiciously similar.

I think that the only way to be sure is to whip the back off the TV and see if you can trace any RGB signal lines going from the SCART into the video input stage.

Well I wouldn't know how to do that really. I can tell you that I tried the bartop on the main TV in the house (38" Samsung) and this has two scart sockets, one of which is clearly labeled "RGB". But I still get the same result... a black screen. I was expecting it to work on the Samsung tbh, which would have confirmed my fears over the Roadstar. It should at least work on the Samsung surely?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 28, 2010, 07:09:47 pm
Yes, if the cable is good then It should work on the Samsung, assuming that you have the TV in the right video mode etc ... although the cable itself should auto-select most of this.

If you like, I can make a cable for you for a fair price + shipping. The cable would be fully tested with multiple SCART TVs before leaving my hands. If for some wierd reason it doesn't work for your equipment, you can return it to me for full refund (less shipping) within a reasonable period. However, I have never had an unhappy customer.

Your VGA-SCART cable would have a molex plug for 5v & 12v input from PC, and look something like this:
(http://scarvell.net/wiki/images/b/b5/Scart_cable_molex.jpg)

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: LeedsFan on May 01, 2010, 08:29:37 am
Yes, if the cable is good then It should work on the Samsung, assuming that you have the TV in the right video mode etc ... although the cable itself should auto-select most of this.

If you like, I can make a cable for you for a fair price + shipping. The cable would be fully tested with multiple SCART TVs before leaving my hands. If for some wierd reason it doesn't work for your equipment, you can return it to me for full refund (less shipping) within a reasonable period. However, I have never had an unhappy customer.

Your VGA-SCART cable would have a molex plug for 5v & 12v input from PC, and look something like this:
(http://scarvell.net/wiki/images/b/b5/Scart_cable_molex.jpg)



OK I might just take you up on that offer. I'm in London for the weekend and I'm gonna have another go at making this cable when I get home. Got a new soldering iron as my other one was too big really for the small pins. I will let you know how it goes when I get back.  :D
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on May 01, 2010, 03:04:02 pm
No worries, PM me when you're ready.

For reference, when makling this cable I generally don't use a soldering iron (except for the 100ohm resistor bit). I usually use 2mm female brass connectors and just slip them over the male blades, as shown in the attached pic.  Use heat shrink tubing or tape to insulate the female ends. Heck of a lot easier than trying to use a soldering iron, and a lot more flexible as you can change things around or even disconnect the pins if you have to (for example, one sometimes forget to put the SCART end's plastic collar on before wiring pins up - it is much easier to deal with if you can just pull the connectors off with pliers and then slip the collar on).

If you do this no-soldering (almost) method, make sure to buy the SCART header with the almost flat blade (male) connectors (there are two kinds).
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Kman-Sweden on May 20, 2010, 04:56:35 am
So how 'bout "true" RGB to Scart?

From a real arcade PCB you can get
R
G
B
VidSync
VidGND

+5V
+12V
GND

Should I use the VidGND as R-, B-, G-return? and GND as GND (eg pin21)?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on May 20, 2010, 06:23:54 am

I have successfully mounted SCART TVs & presentation monitors as arcade monitors with JAMMA inputs. Check earlier in this thread.

If it was me, I wouldn't get too hung up about SCART pin 21 - it is only the shield ground. Most arcade monitor inputs don't have any shield, so cab wiring won't accomodate for it. If desired, you could hook the shield pin to either VidGND or the power GND, but vidGND will be easier unless you are running power signals in anyway.

I recommend that you put 75 ohm resistors on the R-G-B inputs, as JAMMA PCB (& JPACs) put out these signals at levels too high for TVs. You will need the resistors to bring down signal voltage level, otherwise the TV image will be way too 'bright' and would likely cause screen or other component damage in the long run. 75 ohm (or 68ohm is close enough) should be right on the money for this, but if your TV is unique then maybe you could vary the values slightly (e.g. down to 47ohm, or up to 100 ohm)

You don't need any resistors on the SYNC input - that should be OK.

Some PCBs might put out separate H & V syncs, rather than composite (more likely w/ older PCBs). This could be a problem if one of the syncs is not negative, because you can't easily combine +'ve & -'ve syncs without a little bit of conversion circuitry.

There would be no problem with tapping into the 5v & 12v for RGB & AV switch9ing signals. However, consider that you may be able to get away with just making a little wire bridge to short between SCART 20 and SCART 16 to get RGB mode on your TV.

I'm about to wire a Grundig TV into a JAMMA arcade cab. I'll post a pic after it's done.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Kman-Sweden on May 20, 2010, 07:01:48 am
Cool.. So VidGND to all the 4 returns, 75 Ohm resistors on the R, G & B.
Sync to sync. Sync to 16 might be enough for AV-switching..

I'll be waiting for the pics.. :D

BTW I'm building a Supergun for Jamma and NeoGeo MVS... I'll post here if you like, when I get it working..
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on June 05, 2010, 12:53:01 pm
Hi there,

At long last I started working on my own cab yesterday, starting with this cable (I live in Europe and have SCART TV's at hand). Here's what I did chronologically:

*Got a SCART cable and a VGA cable
*Cut off one side of the SCART cable and one VGA plug from the VGA cable
*Desoldered all the wire leftovers from the VGA cable
*Cursed
*Went to a friend with a better soldering iron, mine was too big
*Cut off/desoldered all unnecessairy wires from the SCART cable
*Cursed again
*Resoldered the wire I mistakingly cut off back into place
*Soldered all the wires in the right place (including MOLEX plug and resistor) --> I used the wires from the old SCART cable
*Made sure that no wires were short circuiting and sealed everything with hot glue (figured this would be easiest to isolate all wires)
*Measured all contacts with a multimeter (they were all good)

I then installed the soft15khz program on my computer and connected my VGA graph card with my SCART (50khz) tv. Rebooted the pc and all I got as an image was a combination of following 2 videos:

Soft15khz Intel 945 Not Synced (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2OQsKL4QOQ&NR=1#)

and

Mamecab video problem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Zm33oVvpk&feature=related#)

I also tried running the soft15khz program at 25khz, 31khz and a combination of 15/25/31khz. All options gave me the same problem.

Any ideas? :s
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 06, 2010, 03:06:46 am
Your first video looks like you have tried to boot into something other than 640x480, like 1024x768.

Bear in mind that Soft15khz has variable performance when used with onboard chipsets (e.g. "Intel 945")  - it might work with some, but not with others.

Your second video looks like you have something wrong with your sync wires or vertical hold.

The difficulty is that there are too many unknowns with your setup and hardware. You might find your solution in the Soft15khz thread. Or you might solve the problem by switching the TV  inot the right AV mode. Or your cable might be wired wrong. You want some controlled variables in order to do trouble shooting - e.g. ArcadeVGA card for video output, pre-tested VGA-SCART cable, pre-tested TV etc.


Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on June 06, 2010, 12:46:06 pm
So you're saying that a one-time builder or a first-time builder can't use this setup if he/she doesn't get it right from the first time? :s

Here are some specs that might help:

TV: Sony Trinitron KV-20WS1B
Graph card: ASUS EAX600PRO - running at 15khz with Soft15khz
resolution: 640x480
VGA-SCART cable: below the last build I tried (also tried the original build mentioned in post 1, both builds of course WITH molex plug)

http://img580.imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img580/4853/naamloosd.jpg&via=mupload (http://img580.imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img580/4853/naamloosd.jpg&via=mupload)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 07, 2010, 10:08:55 am
So you're saying that a one-time builder or a first-time builder can't use this setup if he/she doesn't get it right from the first time? :s

Heh, I never said the "can't" word. But to solve your problems you need to work out what you know and what you don't know.

Let's assume that your TV works properly with RGB SCART.

You need to ask yourself:
- Is Soft15khz working properly with my video card & selected drivers?
- Is your cable built properly, without errors?

Most importantly, you need to work out:
- What video card have I got?
- What is my Youtube username?
- Who am I?

What I'm getting at with the last three questions is that your posted videos are from different users, with very different setups. One claims to use a laptop with inbuilt graphics, the other one claims to uses a NVIDIA 8600GS video card. However, in your post, you claim to be using an ASUS EAX600PRO. So ......... I don't really know  what is going on here.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on June 07, 2010, 03:46:26 pm
I have multiple personalities ;)

No really, I didn't film my own tv since the only camera that I own is really my cellphone camera... But I figured that here hd to be people out there with the same issues who did make a video. And I was right :). So the above vids are just vids from random people that I found that are/were having roughly the same issues  as I am.

As I noted before, the card I am using is most definitely an Asus EAX600PRO. It has all drivers installed (catalyst 6.5) and Soft15Khz running properly.

The issue is also not the TV itself as I tried multiple tv's with the same results today.

The issue is also not in the cable. I measured ll connections multiple time and they are all good.

I've had some valuable tips from Sailorsat which I'm gonna try tomorrow:

1) Try it at 640x240 resolution
2) Use the DVI port instead of the VGA port

Anything else I could possibly try?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 07, 2010, 06:18:29 pm
Your video card is an ATI chipset right? Try using an older version of the control panel software (e.g. Catalyst 6.5).

I'd be wary about assuming the cable is all good. What voltage is present at SCART pin 16? Is the sync right at pin 20? Is the sync grounded? You tried multiple TVs which is good. However, even if your Soft15khz is buggy/wrong, many TVs will still give you a split screen in 31khz modes.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on June 08, 2010, 02:11:21 am
ATI chipset, correct. The control panel software is Catalyst 6.5 as mentioned below ;)

The pc is confirmed to be running at 15khz. I also tried multiple regular computer CRT's and they all gave me the "signal out of range" message, which would not be the case if it was in fact still running at 31khz

The cable build I'm using currently is the following, exactly as the picture below:

http://img580.imageshack.us/i/naamloosd.jpg/ (http://img580.imageshack.us/i/naamloosd.jpg/)

I'm not sure on the voltage at pin 16, but I did the molex plug/100ohm resistor thing as mentioned in post 1 (exactly the same as the pic in post 1). I'll measure it out later today.

About the sync wires: as in the pic above I joined the two brown ones at SCART pin 20 and made them go to VGA pin 13 and 14 respectively. No extra ground is present...

Thank you for the help and the patience you have with me, I really appreciate it.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 08, 2010, 03:24:25 am
I think that your problem is most likely sync related.

I've never really liked that wiring diagram - pretty as it is.

The problem with that diagram is that sync ground (VGA 10) is not connected to anything. What is your VGA 10 connected to? Can you get connectivity between VGA 10 & your SCART ground? VGA 5 (another ground, H-sync I believe) is similarly not connected to anything. So maybe you should start again?

From the top:
- connect RGB (VGA 1,2,3 to SCART 15, 11, 7)
- connect H+V sync (VGA 13+14 to SCART 20)
- connect Switching signal to SCART 16 (5v from VGA 9 or MOLEX +100ohm gives 2v, or bridge SCART 20 -> 16)

After that:
- cut off any wires from VGA 4, 11, 12, 15. These are monitor ID, worse than useless to us. Don't get them mixed up with your grounds.
- cut off wire from VGA 9 (5v) if it is present and you haven't used it.
- gather whatever is left, they are the grounds (VGA 5, 6, 7, 8, 10). Twist them together and connect them to a suitable SCART ground pin (e.g. I prefer SCART 17, but any should do)
- Connect VGA shield ground to SCART shield ground (SCART 21)

PS, I always refer to these pinouts with my pin numbering format:
SCART pinout:  http://pinouts.ru/Home/Scart_pinout.shtml (http://pinouts.ru/Home/Scart_pinout.shtml)
VGA pinout:      http://pinouts.ru/Video/VGA15_pinout.shtml (http://pinouts.ru/Video/VGA15_pinout.shtml)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on June 09, 2010, 02:26:10 am
IT WORKED, IT WORKED!! I got an image out of the bloody thing! Wasn't getting my hopes up, because during the entire bootup the tv was still out of sync, but once it displayed the XP desktop, it was "all good" (well, not ll good, but I could live with it)! Is that normal (just being curious)?

One tiny issue I'm still having though is the positioning of the screen. I seem to lose about 3/4th of the taskbar on the bottom, and when I start up HS, It's also not centered. Is that tv-related, or anything I can do 'bout it?

Thanks a bunch!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on June 09, 2010, 03:09:25 am
That seems to be normal.

The BIOS/Bootup Screens are still output in 31kHz so your TV can't sync them correctly.

As soon as Windows kicks in the output is in 15kHz and your TV can sync it perfectly.

As for the "missing screen", yes that is normal. It is called overscan.
The  "tv standard" is about 80% to 90% visible.
TV signals contain binary data on the first lines, like 4/3 vs. 16/9 switching, clock, teletext etc.
Some games might get cut off but usually that shouldn't be a big deal.

Arcade monitors usually show everything.

You might fool around in your TVs service mode (if it has an OSD) or inside the TV, but I wouldn't do that except you want to put the TV in a cab.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on June 09, 2010, 04:34:09 am
This tv is just a test tv, so I won't be fiddling with that one. I'm getting another one shortly to put in my first cab, so I'll look into it when I get the "new" tv.

Thanks for all the help and great input, I wouldn't have gotten here without you guys!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 09, 2010, 10:27:37 am
What made the cable work in the end? Was it sync ground, something else?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on June 09, 2010, 12:37:40 pm
Honestly, I don't know... I'm guessing sync ground.

I just started all over again. Cut off both ends of the wire, desoldered both VGA and SCART piece, stripped all wires again, the whole shabang.

Most of it was the same as last attempt though, the added sync ground was all that was really different.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Atomicburner on June 17, 2010, 06:43:16 pm
Hello to all.
Im Portuguese from Europe.
Sorry my bad English.
I have a strange problem with my vga-scart cable/TV, and I'm in need of help.
Ive got a Sony KV-X2521D and an AVGA.
Ive got this combination:

VGA      SCART
1   ->   15
2   ->   11
3   ->   7
6   ->   17
7   ->   17
8   ->   17
10   ->   17
13   ->   20
14   ->   16 - 20
vga ground -> 17

PC Power         SCART
+12v   ->         8
+5v   ->   100Ohms   ->   16
0v   ->            18

In my TV from kitchen it works fine, but in Sony its always rolling.( SONY its in my cabinet)
Ive made 10 cables, now im frustrated.
I can put video on youtube for u all to see.
Anyone can help me, please.
Thanx to all.
 :cry: :cry: :cry:

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 18, 2010, 03:00:37 am
VGA 13+14 => SCART 20

VGA 5 (Hsync Ground) +> SCART 17
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Atomicburner on June 18, 2010, 01:11:30 pm
Thank you Zebidee, but it continues the same, picture is rolling, and i dont have h.sync and v.sync in the TV.
I tried this especifations you gave me with the 5volt + resistor and 12 volt, and without them.
 :badmood:

I bought this TV for my arcade and now ive gotta sell it... :hissy:
So now ive got this

VGA      SCART
1   ->   15
2   ->   11
3   ->   7
5   ->   17
6   ->   17
7   ->   17
8   ->   17
10   ->   17
13 & 14  ->   20 goes to 16
vga ground -> 17

PC Power         SCART
+12v   ->         8
+5v   ->   100Ohms   ->   16
0v   ->            18

I think this TV is the first one to cheat the cable.
Cheers
Rui

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on June 18, 2010, 03:00:07 pm
I would NOT connect the syncs AND the power supply to scart pin 16.
power to 16 is ok, connect the syncs to 20 only
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Atomicburner on June 18, 2010, 04:48:56 pm
Thanx for the info Sailorsat, but it get worst. Now i only can see white dots and rolling picture...with or without the molex, sometimes gets blank and then goes black...i think in my case i must have 13 & 14 together to scart 20 and then from scart 20 to 16.

Any ideas..?
 :cry: :banghead:
cheers
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 19, 2010, 12:41:11 am
Sailorsat is right - use 5v + 100ohms -> SCART 16 (best, should work for [almost] all TVs)
OR
bridge SCART 20 -> 16 (simpler, works with many TVs)

But not both as this is asking for trouble.

You mentioned that your cable works with a different TV, which suggests that the problem is with your Sony TV.

- Your Sony does not have a v-sync adjust control anywhere? Are you sure?
- What video mode are you in- 640x480? If so, try 640x240 or something similar ... some Sony CGA professional monitors don't support interlacing! But all their TVs should be OK.
- Your Sony might not accept RGB via SCART (i.e. only composite through pin 20) - but this is unlikely. I've only seen this once before, and that was with a very cheap & nasty brand of TV (Goldstar - this company has since morphed into Korea's LG)
- Try disconnecting the 12v power supply - you might be forcing the Sony into the wrong A/V mode by accident. You can always select A/V mode manually.
- Make sure that everything is connected & insulated properly - i.e. no shorts
- Make sure that you can feed a normal video signal into your Sony (e.g. TV, DVD), in case there is some deeper problem with it.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Atomicburner on June 19, 2010, 07:43:12 am
Hello Zebedee
Sry for the long post.

(You mentioned that your cable works with a different TV, which suggests that the problem is with your Sony TV.)
I think the same.

(- Your Sony does not have a v-sync adjust control anywhere? Are you sure?)
Ive got this adjustments as you can see in picture above, then ive got 2 others in the middle of the board of TV witch i already touched and nothing
happened.

(- What video mode are you in- 640x480? If so, try 640x240 or something similar ... some Sony CGA professional monitors don't support interlacing! But all their TVs should be OK.)
Im using Arcade VGA from Ultimarc, and in the other TV the image is OK with very bright colors, but in Sony i can see the bios but the picture is always rolling.

(- Your Sony might not accept RGB via SCART (i.e. only composite through pin 20) - but this is unlikely. I've only seen this once before, and that was with a very cheap & nasty brand of TV (Goldstar - this company has since morphed into Korea's LG))
Yes it does, you can see in picture above.

(- Try disconnecting the 12v power supply - you might be forcing the Sony into the wrong A/V mode by accident. You can always select A/V mode manually.)
Sony is going to the right A/V1, and if i disconnect the 12 power supply i can always select A/V mode manually as you said, and the picture
doesnt modify.

(- Make sure that everything is connected & insulated properly - i.e. no shorts)
I always check if there is a short circuit with the multimeter in the pins of A/V.

(- Make sure that you can feed a normal video signal into your Sony (e.g. TV, DVD), in case there is some deeper problem with it.)
If i connect a DVD to the Sony, Bam awesome , it runs gorgeous.

By the way, i tried only to connect vga 13 & 14 to scart 16 (with no connection to scart 20) its rolling picture
but if i connect vga 13 & 14 to scart 20 (with no connection to scart 16) it gives me black picture with white dots.

I just dont know what to do.
Maybe this TV only syncs if audio connected? any ideas?
Zebidee i know you made cables, im going to PM you, ok?
Cheers



Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Atomicburner on June 19, 2010, 07:51:03 am
One picture gave me error while posting, lets see if this time the picture keeps posted.
Cheers.


Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on June 19, 2010, 08:36:01 am
Hm... Resum

Sync to 20 only - only black dots -> TV in composite mode
Sync to 16 only - rolling picture -> TV in RGB mode but no sync line connected.

--

Try this... Step-by-Step


Step 1 (Black Screen):
VGA 1 to SCART 15 = RED Signal
VGA 6 to SCART 13 = RED Ground


You should see a black screen.

--

Step 2a (Switch to RGB - VGA only):
VGA 9 to Resistor ~68-100 Ohms to SCART 16 = BLANK Signal
VGA 5 to SCART 18 = BLANK Ground

Step 2b (Switch to RGB - PC Molex):
+5V to Resistor ~68-100 Ohms to SCART 16 = BLANK Signal
GND to SCART 18 = BLANK Ground
+12V to SCART 8 = SWITCH Signal


Depending on which way you choose, you manually need to select AV(1).
The screen should turn Red.

--

Step 3 (Add Sync):
VGA 13+14 to SCART 20 = SYNC Signal
VGA 10 to SCART 17 = SYNC Ground

The screen should becomed synched.

--

Step 4 (Other colors):
VGA 2 to SCART 11 = GREEN Signal
VGA 7 to SCART 9 = GREEN Ground

VGA 3 to SCART 7 = BLUE Signal
VGA 8 to SCART 5 = BLUE Ground


The screen should be fine now.

--

Step 5 (Sound!)
Yes well...
Get a 3,5mm Stereo connector

Inner Pin to SCART 4 = Ground
Middle Pin to SCART 6 = Audio Right
Outer Pin to SCART 2 = Audio Left
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Atomicburner on June 19, 2010, 10:29:00 am
Hello Sailorsat, thanx, but yet, it was not this time...

(Step 1 (Black Screen): VGA 1 to SCART 15 = RED Signal, VGA 6 to SCART 13 = RED Ground, You should see a black screen.)
Right.

(Step 2a or step2b : , Depending on which way you choose, you manually need to select AV(1). The screen should turn Red.)
Wrong, the screen stays black.

(Step 3 (Add Sync): VGA 13+14 to SCART 20 = SYNC Signal, VGA 10 to SCART 17 = SYNC Ground, The screen should becomed synched.)
Wrong, it appear a black screen with white dots, and its desynchronized.
 :banghead: :banghead:

Thanx for the info.
cheers


Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 19, 2010, 11:34:56 am
Seems that your Sony is in composite mode.

Something tells me that your RGB switching signal is borked. Can you try using the 5v + 100ohm resistor -> SCART 16 again? Leave the casing off your SCART header and use your multimeter to double-check the voltage while in-circuit (ie plugged in) & everything turned on. The voltage should be close to 2v.

If it is ~2v, then try connecting the 5v *without* the resistor - maybe the higher voltage will trigger RGB mode. I suggest this because you seem to get a rolling RGB picture when you connect the sync to SCART 16. Your sync from an ArcadeVGA card is likely at around 4.5-5v.

if NOT (e.g. if it is still 5v), and you are sure there is no other problem, then it suggests that your Sony is not 75ohm terminated like it should be. Try this:

Add another resistor (75 ohm is probably perfect, but one of your 100ohm resistors should do) to the SCART 16 pin or wire, and connect the other end of the resistor to any ground pin (SCART 18 will do, but any is OK - it shouldn't matter much). This will then create a simple VOLTAGE DIVIDER, which would reduce the voltage input to approximately half of what it was before (~2.5v).

Here is the formula at play here, using 100ohm to ground:

Voutput = Vinput * (Rground / (Rinput + Rground))
Voutput = 5v * (100 / (100+100)) = 5v * 1/2
Vouput = 2.5v

To reduce the voltage further you could either add more resistance (ie more or 'larger' resistors) to the input, or use a lower-rated resistor (e.g. 75ohm) to the grounded resistor.

This latter case (using 75 ohm to ground) would then give you:

Voutput = 5v * (75 / (100 + 75))
Voutput = 2.14v

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Atomicburner on June 19, 2010, 12:11:27 pm
Hello Zebedee
Ive got one problem here, the resistors that i have, are damaged, because i the voltage after the resistor is 5.06, always.
So, i always tested this with 5v direct to Scart 16, hope not to damaged the TV, im going to connect a DVD to see.
Only on monday i can buy some resistors, on monday i will give you news.. thanx for the help..
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 19, 2010, 11:56:55 pm
In that case you have three possibilities:

a) tested the voltage out-of-circuit (i.e. without the SCART plugged in your voltage readings will be wrong - the DMM will read 5v!);
b) your resistors are faulty - test your resistors separately, just use your multimeter on ohms setting; or
c) your Sony TV is not '75ohm terminated'.

In the last case (which seems possible as your other TV worked), try making a voltage divider like I described in my last post. This will give your TV the '75 ohm termination' that it needs, and you will get  approx. 2.0 - 2.5v at SCART 16 to trigger RGB mode properly.


Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 20, 2010, 01:22:19 am
Oh, I was having a close look at that pic you posted earlier. have you tried adjusting the pot in the top left corner marked "V.CENT"?

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 20, 2010, 01:24:39 am
Something else I noticed in your pic - there is a connector next to your flyback transformer that looks like it is about to fall off!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Atomicburner on June 20, 2010, 05:36:48 pm
Hello Zebidee

(In that case you have three possibilities:
a) tested the voltage out-of-circuit (i.e. without the SCART plugged in your voltage readings will be wrong - the DMM will read 5v!);
b) your resistors are faulty - test your resistors separately, just use your multimeter on ohms setting; or
c) your Sony TV is not '75ohm terminated'.
In the last case (which seems possible as your other TV worked), try making a voltage divider like I described in my last post. This will give your TV the '75 ohm termination' that it needs, and you will get  approx. 2.0 - 2.5v at SCART 16 to trigger RGB mode properly.
)
- In this case it was the a, after all my resistors are fine, i measure them as you said, i did try the c, and the screen keeps black with white dots and roll less.

(Oh, I was having a close look at that pic you posted earlier. have you tried adjusting the pot in the top left corner marked "V.CENT"?)
- Yes, i had, and its to picture grow in vertical.

(Something else I noticed in your pic - there is a connector next to your flyback transformer that looks like it is about to fall off!)
-Thanx for the info, its already in place.

-I can only see something in screen if i join vga 13 or vga 14 to scart 16 or both 13 & 14 to scart 16, if i join 13 & 14 to scart 20, the screen appears black with white dots rolling.

Now, im going to buy some 75ohm resistor, do the test again, and then i say the results.
Thanks Zebedee and Sailorsat for the help u have giving me.
cheers.




Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Atomicburner on June 21, 2010, 01:20:45 pm
Hello ...

I already tested with the new 75 ohms resistors...
The image is more stabilized, its less rolling picture. I think if i had some vertycal sync in my tv, now i could adjust... but i dont have...
Zebidee, i tried as you said with 2 resistors, but the 75 ohms, because if i put the 100 resistor i have 0,014 v reading in multimeter.
Im not electrician, but i think im reading well the multimeter.
I sent u a PM Zebidee.
Cheers..
Rui
 :badmood:
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Atomicburner on June 21, 2010, 01:57:08 pm
Forget to post this:

If I connect 13 & 14 to Scart 20 and molex with 75 ohm to Scart 16, i can see image more stabilized.

Cheers.
Rui
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 21, 2010, 06:59:54 pm
If I connect 13 & 14 to Scart 20 and molex with 75 ohm to Scart 16, i can see image more stabilized.

Does that mean you have solved the problem, or is the picture still rolling?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Atomicburner on June 22, 2010, 02:53:18 am
Hello
The picture still rolling, but less rolling.
Cheers
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 22, 2010, 05:09:44 am
Crikey, are you 100% sure that both your VGA 13+14 wires are hooked up & connected, all the way from the VGA snd to the SCART end?

All ground pins (VGA 5,6,7,8,10) grounded?

At the PC, check to make sure that your video driver is using both negative horz & negative vertical sync (i.e. not composite, not positive).
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: wilch on July 01, 2010, 08:49:57 am
i'm having trouble with a newly soldered cable too, all i see is a black image. i have a radeon 9250 and a sony trinitron.
i'm going to try 'VGA 5 (Hsync Ground) +> SCART 17' as pin 5 is not connected to anything.
also i tried scart 16 to 20 so now i'll try with the molex.
i have vga 13+14 to scart 20, is this necessary using radeon 9250?

also note, when i connect my xbox rgb, the tv switches to AV1-RGB and the top left display shows 3 little dots representing RGB, when i switch to AV1 with the remote it doesn't show the dots so i guess i definatley need the molex power....

also, i use DVI to LCD as primary display and tried the tv via the vga port. when i set soft-15hz mode, can i install it for the secondary display only while using the LCD as normal and have dual displays?

thanks
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 02, 2010, 09:20:51 am
Try the molex power first, especially 5v+100ohm resistor => 2v at SCART 16. Then see if that works.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: wilch on July 02, 2010, 12:07:07 pm
i managed to get an image without molex power, but i'm having other problems. im writing about this on 3 different threads now so i'll link to this one: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.1880 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.1880)

check that out if you'r interested. any help is appreciated, thank you
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: wilch on July 30, 2010, 09:09:12 am
i'm starting fresh on a new vga-rgb scart. my new vga cable arrived and it seems much better quality than the last. pin 9 is present and the RGB wires each have their own shielding.
can i use vga pin 9 instead of bridging scart 16 - 20? does a radeon 9250 pin 9 give out 5v?

UPDATE: on closer inspection i've realised this cable is designed differently. vga grounding pins 6,7,8,10 all share a common link with each other and the shielding/casing. there is a small sheet of metal connecting the pins, but there are no wires. the shielded RGB wires have an additional wire wrapped around them within the shielding which i may be able to solder to the corresponding scart RGB grounding pins. would it be ok having all ground pins on both vga and scart side being linked. there is no wire coming from vga pin 5 at all
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 30, 2010, 08:16:14 pm
i'm starting fresh on a new vga-rgb scart. my new vga cable arrived and it seems much better quality than the last. pin 9 is present and the RGB wires each have their own shielding.

Experience has taught me to always check the VGA cables with a multimeter set to 'ohms' before starting the job. Anything more that a few ohms resistance, especially on the sync, can cause noticeable problems. This can sometimes even be a problem with purchased VGA extension cables. I've tracked issues to this before, after much frustration and head-scratching. (caveat: some, e.g. Sailorsat, actually seem to suggest putting resistors on the sync, but I don't think that would do any good in most cases).

Quote
can i use vga pin 9 instead of bridging scart 16 - 20? does a radeon 9250 pin 9 give out 5v?

Yes, but you also need the 100ohm resistor

Quote
UPDATE: on closer inspection i've realised this cable is designed differently. vga grounding pins 6,7,8,10 all share a common link with each other and the shielding/casing. there is a small sheet of metal connecting the pins, but there are no wires. the shielded RGB wires have an additional wire wrapped around them within the shielding which i may be able to solder to the corresponding scart RGB grounding pins. would it be ok having all ground pins on both vga and scart side being linked. there is no wire coming from vga pin 5 at all

Grounds are usually common at both the TV-SCART input and video card output ends anyway. Check it out with your multimeter on diode-test, if you are curious.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: wilch on July 30, 2010, 09:02:55 pm
thanks for the reply Zebidee. im familiar with testing continuity but not the ohms setting. what would i be looking for when testing the cable?

i built the cable best i could with what was there.

VGA     SCART   NAME
 1  ----  15     Red Signal
 2  ----  11     Green Signal
 3  ----   7     Blue Signal
13+14 ---20   Sync Signal (neg. H-Sync + neg. V-Sync = neg.

the vga pins 6,7,8 and 10 were all linked  to the shielding/casing so i bridged scart pins 17, 13, 9 and 5 to the scart casing which is linked to the vga casing. so all ground pins vga & scart are common

well i tried it out and got a black screen. if i set vertical sync to + then i get a rolling image...   i think maybe i should double check all links for continuity and reinstall drivers... any other suggestions?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 31, 2010, 04:27:25 am
thanks for the reply Zebidee. im familiar with testing continuity but not the ohms setting. what would i be looking for when testing the cable?

Set the multimeter to ohms (Look for the Omega symbol, like an upside down U with feet), select the range (you are looking for very low levels, tenths of an ohm or single digits, several ohms resistance could cause problems). 

Quote
the vga pins 6,7,8 and 10 were all linked  to the shielding/casing so i bridged scart pins 17, 13, 9 and 5 to the scart casing which is linked to the vga casing. so all ground pins vga & scart are common

Unusual way to do it. If it were me, I'd hook up the ends of all your VGA ground wires to SCART 17, and leave it at that. I'm a little concerned about where VGA 5 has gone.

Quote
well i tried it out and got a black screen. if i set vertical sync to + then i get a rolling image...   i think maybe i should double check all links for continuity and reinstall drivers... any other suggestions?

Agreed, check your cabling. What is connected to SCART 16 to activate RGB switching? You should not play with the sync polarity, leave it negative.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: wilch on July 31, 2010, 08:13:36 am
ok the lowest ohm setting is 200, but it is picking up tiny amounts, not sure of the accuracy though as it only cost 2! the resistance fluctuated when testing VGA 1 to SCART 15, first it reported 2.0 then 1.4 then 1.6 then 2.0 again so i think i need a better multimeter and will test all future cables before soldering.

so if i connect the vga grounds to scart 17, will the other scart ground pins automatically share a common grounding with pin 17?

i bridged scart 20 to 16, this worked fine with the last cable so i'm sure my TV is ok with this


UPDATE: i secured the wires better, but didnt change the schematics. i reinstalled catalyst 6.5 and the cable works exactly as the last one did; meaning nice clear picture,  but green dominates the screen with half the resolutions, the other half are fine, yet i still have no 321x240 or any other 321x??? resolutions....  so im back where i started.

sailorsat recommended soldering 100ohm resistors to vga pins 13&14 on my previous cable, but i cannot open the vga side as its secured with glue. instead, i cut the wires on the scart side, then joined them back together using the resistors, but this just gave me a black screen, im guessing they need to be attached directly to the pins.

after all the trial & error i can live with too much green on my display, but i really want 321x240
Title: VGA to SCART cable compatible with Arcade VGA card and Soft 15KHz
Post by: Oracle on August 10, 2010, 05:32:20 pm
You can buy a VGA to SCART cable for use to connect your PC installed with either an Ultimarc ArcadeVGA card or virtually any ATI or NVIDIA card using Soft 15KHZ to a regular CRT TV so that it can be used as an arcade monitor for a MAME project. This cable is a great buy and works perfect. You can find it on ebay. The seller is (m)(g)(w). You can find it by searching MAME SCART/VGA to SCART Cable compatible with ArcadeVGA or similar. This is one essential bit of kit if you want the real thing.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on August 10, 2010, 11:10:53 pm
@oracle - Nicely spotted. Are you the seller of that cable, and/or have you ever used it?

That all seems fine, so long as all you want is the most basic VGA-SCART cable AND have an arcadeVGA or ATI Radeon card. However:

- That cable will not work with video cards that do not output 5v on pin 9, which is most other cards.
- That cable will not allow auto-switching your TV to A/V mode. Aside from saving hassle, some TVs need this.
- That cable will still require you to output a 15khz signal from the video card (like any VGA-SCART cable).
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Oracle on August 11, 2010, 11:21:17 am
@oracle - Nicely spotted. Are you the seller of that cable, and/or have you ever used it?

That all seems fine, so long as all you want is the most basic VGA-SCART cable AND have an arcadeVGA or ATI Radeon card. However:

- That cable will not work with video cards that do not output 5v on pin 9, which is most other cards.
- That cable will not allow auto-switching your TV to A/V mode. Aside from saving hassle, some TVs need this.
- That cable will still require you to output a 15khz signal from the video card (like any VGA-SCART cable).


I have used this cable yes. I have used it with an ArcadeVGA card and also an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro without any issues. I believe it will work on any 9xxx series ATI Radeon card.

This cable has a bridge between 20 => 16 and pin 9 on the VGA is not wired. Never had any issues with it and it works great.

This works perfectly with an ArcadeVGA card or virtually any ATI or NVIDIA card using Soft 15KHz. For info on Soft 15KHz click the link >>> http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170 (http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=8170)

The seller is happy to wire it as requested and can add the Molex 12v => SCART pin 8 and the Molex 5v + 100 ohm resistor => 2v => SCART pin 16 for auto switching and mode selection if required as not all TV's need this.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on August 11, 2010, 01:29:50 pm
That's all good, there's a lot of work involved in running the power in. What does the seller charge for all that?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Oracle on August 11, 2010, 04:11:11 pm
That's all good, there's a lot of work involved in running the power in. What does the seller charge for all that?


Not sure really. Probably a little bit more than the standard cable. You will need to make contact for a price.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on August 12, 2010, 03:17:49 am
I imagine that the extra cost would not be insignificant. I can make a basic cable in 25 minutes, but more complex cables take a lot longer.

Although I use some I have made myself, I would not *buy* a cable that simply shorts SCART 20 -> SCART 16. That works on *some* TVs only, and you have no way of knowing until you try it out. When I make cables for other people, I always include the molex for 12v & 5v input as standard. Saves on disappointments.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: XNIF on August 17, 2010, 06:34:09 am
I hear some people say that a 75 ohm resistor would give better colours? Can anyone confirm this?  Can i break my tv or graphicscard when using a 75 insead of a 100 ohm resistor?  I'm using a 75 ohm cable...
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on August 17, 2010, 01:21:01 pm
I've never heard anyone say that. The 100 ohm resistor that we mostly talk about in this thread is to pull 5v -> ~2v for pin 16. Your TV will either be switched to RGB mode or not.

Generally, there should be no resistance on the cable itself, but monitors are commonly '75ohm terminated' - it might even say that on the cable, if that is where you got yours from.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: wilch on August 18, 2010, 06:47:34 pm
@Oracle, Thanks for the link, haven't heard of anyone selling these cables in England, might try it out and see if it fares better than my own effort.

@Zebidee, How much do you charge for one of your cables sent to the UK?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: XNIF on August 19, 2010, 03:56:56 am
Thanks for your response, maybe i misunderstood.

There is one question that remains: when booting my pc to windows XP the first minute or so is not in 15khz. Does this damage the TV?

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on August 19, 2010, 05:13:31 am
I have never seen any evidence to suggest that it causes any problems, no. I have two cabs that work like that with Soft15khz running them - they are about 2 & 3 years old. Never had a problem.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on August 19, 2010, 05:15:02 am
@Zebidee, How much do you charge for one of your cables sent to the UK?

Responded by personal message ...
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: XNIF on August 22, 2010, 04:23:43 am
i am going to try to build the cable myself and safe some money (i hope). As i have calculated it should not cost more than 10 euro's ?
So in short all i need is:

1) VGA male sub D connector ( http://www.elektronica-online.nl/content_details.php?id=10884 (http://www.elektronica-online.nl/content_details.php?id=10884) )
2) A vga cable that includes RGB ( http://www.elektronica-online.nl/content_details.php?id=12206 (http://www.elektronica-online.nl/content_details.php?id=12206) )
3) A scart connector ( http://www.elektronica-online.nl/content_details.php?id=967 (http://www.elektronica-online.nl/content_details.php?id=967) )
4)  A resistor of 100ohm ( http://www.elektronica-online.nl/content_details.php?id=4909 (http://www.elektronica-online.nl/content_details.php?id=4909) )

I am not really sure about the resistor , i choose a 100 ohm with 5 watt?

If someone can confirm that these are the things i need, i will order. I am kind of a n00b on this so help is very much appreciated!

thanks!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on August 22, 2010, 06:22:52 am
100 ohm 1/2 watt will do.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: bkenobi on August 24, 2010, 04:05:23 pm
Anyone have a US source for a SCART male connector?  I'm thinking of just buying a SCART-SCART cable from dealextreme and hacking it up.  Maybe I can open the connector, if not, it may be a bit more ugly looking.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on August 27, 2010, 02:39:29 pm
better buy a scart plug made for soldering purpose. industrial scart cables often have missing or crap connectors .

i ordered 20 of them some weeks ago. if u dont find any i can send one for shipping tax.

http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=C168;GROUPID=3242;ARTICLE=17474;START=0;SORT=artnr;OFFSET=16;SID=25BPueH6wQARkAAD0TVeo84c93c7252918b42bb1520cfcb58c4e6 (http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=C168;GROUPID=3242;ARTICLE=17474;START=0;SORT=artnr;OFFSET=16;SID=25BPueH6wQARkAAD0TVeo84c93c7252918b42bb1520cfcb58c4e6)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on August 29, 2010, 02:22:45 am
You can probably get them from a hobby electronics store (Jaycar stocks them in Aust). - worth asking your local store about if you want only one or two, anyway.

if you can get a header with 2mm spades at the back of the pins, then you can use 2mm female quick-connects instead of soldering! Unfortunately, the ads usually wont show this detail and the only way to really be sure is to open them up and have a look.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: bkenobi on August 29, 2010, 11:42:02 pm
Austin would be a bit of a trip from Seattle for a couple connectors.   :cheers:

If you have a part number for the ones with the QD's anywhere, I'll take a look.

I built a VGA -> DB9 cable the other day (the other option for hooking things up), but I haven't had a chance to play with it yet.  I think the SCART cable is safer since I positively know the inputs for that (SCART is well documented), but if this works I'll probably be set.  I've just been too chicken to put a signal into it after reading the warnings about frying things with 31kHz on a 15kHz display.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on August 30, 2010, 12:53:01 am
Austin would be a bit of a trip from Seattle for a couple connectors.   :cheers:

Heh, I meant Australia  ;)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: bkenobi on August 30, 2010, 01:06:29 am
BAH!!!  Australia is even further.   :laugh2:
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: BurgerKingDiamond on November 02, 2010, 01:30:26 pm
I have slightly different situation, but from reading this I think it should work. I want to connect my PS3 through SCART to an arcade monitor. An arcade monitor has R,G,B,GND, and SYNC right? So I can just connect the R,G,B,Sync wires from the monitor to the appropriate pins on the SCART? My only question is what to do to the GNDS for R,G,B. I'm sure this is obvious, but I just connect them all to the monitor GND?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: mvsfan on November 12, 2010, 07:59:11 pm
another advantage is that your supply voltage is much higher, Thus, your Kw usage is .5. of course they probably just charge you double for it.

I tried to get 120/277/480 3 phase service here and was told i couldnt, even though the 3 phase line is right at the front of my property.

they told me that i just wouldnt use enough of it, and that was the whole point.

if i could have got it and installed smaller commercial units for AC, heat, water heater, etc, my electric bill would drop almost by half.

Imagine running every single low voltage appliance that you have like game consoles, etc on a master 480 low voltage power supply....

of course if i could have done it they probably would have just started billing me double per kw.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on November 13, 2010, 11:30:55 am
I have slightly different situation, but from reading this I think it should work. I want to connect my PS3 through SCART to an arcade monitor. An arcade monitor has R,G,B,GND, and SYNC right? So I can just connect the R,G,B,Sync wires from the monitor to the appropriate pins on the SCART? My only question is what to do to the GNDS for R,G,B. I'm sure this is obvious, but I just connect them all to the monitor GND?

Yeah, That is pretty much what you would have to do. Sorry about the late reply.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Gray_Area on November 13, 2010, 10:21:02 pm
I have slightly different situation, but from reading this I think it should work. I want to connect my PS3 through SCART to an arcade monitor. An arcade monitor has R,G,B,GND, and SYNC right? So I can just connect the R,G,B,Sync wires from the monitor to the appropriate pins on the SCART? My only question is what to do to the GNDS for R,G,B. I'm sure this is obvious, but I just connect them all to the monitor GND?

Yeah, That is pretty much what you would have to do. Sorry about the late reply.

Sort of like daisy-chainging your controls grounds.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: BurgerKingDiamond on November 15, 2010, 06:41:44 am
cool. My situation has changed so I won't be trying this afterall. I think it would basically work, but I think you need to amplify the signals some. Which is over my head.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on November 21, 2010, 01:50:26 pm
Hi there once more,

The very first thing I made when I started on my first build was the VGA/SCART-cable. Since I'm no soldering genius and the VGA bit of the cable has some very small pins it was a MAJOR PITA. After a couple extra runs to the electronics store to get some replacement VGA connectors for the ones I screwed up, and with a ton of greatgreat help from you guys, I finally pulled it off. Somehow, the damn thing broke somewhere in the progress of moving the cab (my workshop is not at my house), so I had to start all over again. This time, now that the build is nearing completion, my soldering skills are much better, and I can honestly say I'm proud of the soldering job I did on my new cable. But... It's not working...

AFAIK, I used the exact same wiring as on the last one (I only left the Molex plug out, I considered it, but it's not really worth my trouble. I'll just put the tv in the right video channel manually.). Here's what I did:

VGA ---------------------------------> SCART

1                                                        15
2                                                        11
3                                                        7
13 & 14                                               20
5, 6, 7, 8, 10                                        17
Shield                                                  Shield
4, 9, 11, 12, 15                                     Not connected

What am I missing? :s
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on November 23, 2010, 05:19:03 pm
guess u missed scart pin 16 to switch the tv to > rgb< . 5 volt + 100 ohm resistor taken from a molex plug or vga pin 9 will do the trick .most tvs might work with 5 volt without any probs . if ur tv doesnt switch to av when powered up u'd better wire the 12 volt to pin 8 .  

ps. soldering nerds are doin ok with classic 15-15 wired vga cables.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on November 24, 2010, 06:39:43 am
I know all other cables have this molex plug thing to get the 5v from the pc to the scart so the tv automatically switches to the right channel. I didn't install that cable this time because I didn't know it actually affected the signal transmitting from the pc to the tv. I thought it was only there for our convenience so that we didn't have to switch the tv to the av channel manually...

 I guess i'll try to get the molex working anyway then... I'll get back to you!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on November 29, 2010, 04:32:52 am
Shorting SCART 16 -> SCART 20 (sync) also works with many (but not all) TVs.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: BLASTEROO on December 03, 2010, 10:22:40 pm
Hi all!

I can't get my Sony TV to auto switch to AV mode by sending 12 volts via molex to scart pin 8.

Diagram:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/callum.henderson/basement_boomera_000009.htm (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/callum.henderson/basement_boomera_000009.htm)

I've tested it on two other TVs and they perform the auto switching OK.

Any ideas?  ???

Any input appreciated. 
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on December 04, 2010, 03:53:35 pm
hi there again,

I got it to work! Thanks again for your great help. I do however notice 2 minor issues:

1) I seem to lose a tiny bit of screen on the bottom. Half of my taskbar is not visible. Is that normal/adjustable?
2) The whole screen is vibrating a little bit up and down. Is that just because of a sloppy soldering job? Or is this adjustable?

Thanks!!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 06, 2010, 12:20:24 am
I can't get my Sony TV to auto switch to AV mode by sending 12 volts via molex to scart pin 8.

I've tested it on two other TVs and they perform the auto switching OK.

Some TVs don't auto-respond to voltage at pin 8. Rarely, some TVs don't respond, but also won't change mode unless the voltage is present. 

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 06, 2010, 12:25:32 am
1) I seem to lose a tiny bit of screen on the bottom. Half of my taskbar is not visible. Is that normal/adjustable?
2) The whole screen is vibrating a little bit up and down. Is that just because of a sloppy soldering job? Or is this adjustable?

1. That is just overscan - it is normal for TVs, and means that you lose ~5% around the edges. You might be able to adjust the settings a bit if you can access service mode. You can also choose video mode intelligently (e.g. use 288 line modes for vertical games with 256 lines, so that you can still see all the action).

2. Could be your TV. Adjust vertical hold (if present). Could also be poor sync signal in your cable. test the resistance (ohm meter or multimeter) along the sync lines of your cable. if it is any more than about an ohm, that could be what is causing the problem..
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: BLASTEROO on December 06, 2010, 11:34:32 am
Zebidee,

Thanks for the input!  :cheers:

I forgot to mention that the Sony TV did actually switch to Av mode a few months ago, then it stopped doing that. Sorry!! My bad...!
I have built two different cables but nothing changed. The cables are OK as I have tested it on two different TVs and they switch super fast to Av mode, but not the Sony.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on December 06, 2010, 03:59:18 pm
I just did some more extensive testing (first time I just turned it on to see if it worked), and I noticed that the letters in windows were very hard to read... Is there an easy fix for that? Secondly, there's a whole chunk missing on the top of the screen too. Too much to ignore... How do I adjust the scanlines as you said to make it fit again?

Thnx!!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 06, 2010, 05:51:06 pm
@orchidius - it might just be a problem with your TV (e.g. vertical collapse - where the pic is not fully expanded vertically).

To adjust the overscan you need to enter service mode - that procedure is different for every TV. You need a service manual (i.e. not a user guide).

Otherwise, intelligent mode choice for MAME and other games will help to some extent. Info on how to adjust game video modes that can be found else where on this forum, and in other places.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: BLASTEROO on December 13, 2010, 07:01:57 pm
The problem was on the Tvs PCB.
It was broken and the 12 volts the scart was sending didn't reach a resistor that appears to trigger the auto AV process.
Not always the scart/vga cable is to blame.
SOLVED

 :cheers: thanks
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on February 22, 2011, 03:27:07 pm
Hi everybody,

So, here's the deal: I'm using an old CRT television in a my cab, and I think I broke it, but I'm not sure. It's a SCART tv, and the plan was to apply +5v to scart-pin 16 with a 100ohm resistor in line. However, the resistor was shot (I found out after I noticed something was wrong), so I accidently applied +5v directly to SCART pin 16 (ground pin 18). The tv popped and now the screen looks like this:

IMG 0025 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzjihNLxflg#ws)

However, you hear some audio from the gameconsole that is connected to the tv, but it soon goes silent. No picture is ever visible on the screen.

So... Diagnostics? Is it fixable? Or do I have to throw it out?

Thanks!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on February 24, 2011, 05:08:22 pm
Looks like the TV is not syncing.

Did the TV actually make a 'pop' sound?

Is that test with or without SCART input? Does the TV otherwise work 'normally'?

Have you tried putting the TV into AV-RGB mode manually? You could try putting 12v to SCART pin 8. That should trigger AV mode.


Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: tcancian on July 18, 2011, 04:18:31 am
Hey guys, great work at this thread.  :applaud:

I'm having some issues with my cable, there's distortion on the top of the screen, and the image isnt exactly fitting well.

http://tinypic.com/r/28luixc/7 (http://tinypic.com/r/28luixc/7)

The cursor looks "melted" to the right side.

My video card is an ArcadeVGA from Ultimarc, I've made a VGA to SCART cable, used the Twist method (H+V) to get csync but I have not grounded the sync, should I? I just need to ground pin 5+10 of the VGA to the 17 of the SCART? Some schematics on the internet don't mention ground at all, others just ground the horizontal and as suggested by orchidius I should ground both.  :dizzy:
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on July 18, 2011, 06:06:11 am
I'm having some issues with my cable, there's distortion on the top of the screen, and the image isnt exactly fitting well.

... I have not grounded the sync, should I? I just need to ground pin 5+10 of the VGA to the 17 of the SCART?

Yes, for best results you should ground pins 5+10 to SCART ground.

Try grounding VGA10 => SCART17 and all the VGA RGB grounds to any other convenient SCART ground (even an audio ground will do).

Also, any more than just a few ohms resistance on the sync can generate the symptoms you describe. Use a multimeter to check resistance on VGA 13+14 (sync), as some cables have some resistance (more likely if they are sourced by cutting the cable off an old monitor, but I have even seen this on a cheap cable purchased new). Any more than a few ohms resistance and throw it away, find a new cable and start again.

This latter problem is a bugbear. Having learned the hard way, I will always test the sync resistance on a cable first before doing the rest, just in case.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: tcancian on July 18, 2011, 06:18:38 am
@Zebidee

Thanks for the tips!! Will try out and post results soon  :cheers:

Oh, and one more question. I don't live in Europe, and to get RGB to my TV i'm using a RGB to YPrPb transcoder. Is there a limit to how much it can achieve? I read the maximum for NTSC is 242 non-interlaced vertical lines. Do horizontal lines matter at all? My target is 384x240 so I could run Third Strike natively. And by the way, having resistance at the sync signal could damage my equipment?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on September 28, 2011, 07:34:37 pm
G'day!

Thanks to the excellent information and tools on offer here I recently realized my long time dream of running MAME through a proper CRT monitor. I've successfully hooked up my Thinkpad laptop (with an internal ATI video card) to a huge Loewe Calida SCART TV.

This TV gives a great picture and, fortunately, the service mode is really easy to navigate so I've got the overscan and image positioning just right. The sound is really solid too!

The only complaint I have with this setup is that the reds and blues seem overloaded on certain games. For example, in Street Fighter II, Ken's red outfit looks quite blurred and seems to smear the surrounding image when he moves. Even worse is a game like Rainbow Islands: the rainbows are completely distorted and produce jittery artifacts. Red or blue text on any game is quite bad. However, any game that uses mostly tertiary colors looks fine. Something like Metal Slug looks amazing on this screen.

Any hints on how I might be able to address this problem? Do I need resistors on the RGB lines or something like that? I've tried adjusting the internal controls on the TV but it's as if the RGB signal that the TV is receiving from my VGA card is too hot for it to handle right from the start.

Thanks again for the informative write up!

Regards,
Dale
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on September 28, 2011, 10:35:45 pm
Hello again,

After posting, I did some experimenting and managed to improve the image substantially! :)

What I did was this: drastically turned down the Saturation control in Catalyst (it's now 0.45 instead of 1.0 where I originally had it) and turned up the color control on the Loewe (originally on 31 out of 63 and now set to 59).

With this combination I don't get the same level of dot crawl and distortion on the Rainbow Islands title screen. It's still not perfect but much better. The rainbows in game now look far better. Also, in Street Fighter II, the flashing KO graphic during round isn't distorting like it was and the title screen is free from the flickering edges I was seeing.

So, it's a solution of sorts. I'd be interested to know what these findings might suggest about the way my VGA card and TV are interfacing with each other if anyone has ideas...

Regards,
Dale
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on October 01, 2011, 04:31:01 am
a loewe 100 hertz tv might be a good choice for watching tv but bad for mamescart purpose. most 100 hertz tvs look very artifical with retrogaming , more like a lcd tv than a classic 50/60 hertz . all the picture enhancer + problems with some refreshrates and resolutions make em a pita. less tech on the chassis like on oldies from the nineties and the picture can be 100 % arcadestyle .
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on October 02, 2011, 07:17:15 am
Hmm. This Loewe Calida is looking pretty damn good now that I've fiddled with the saturation. Certainly, it won't sync to all modes listed in soft15khz, especially the really low res modes. However, most games I'm interested in have useful modes available and the screen looks better than many of the arcade monitors I encountered back in my youth.

I'd be interested to know what recommendations can be made in regards to brands and models best suited to the cause. I'm in Australia and the majority of CRTs don't have a SCART port. If I knew exactly what I was looking for I could watch eBay but most listing don't even state if the TV has a SCART port or not so without knowledge of specific brands and models it's hard to know what to shoot for.

Any pointers?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on October 02, 2011, 08:13:14 pm
Another update: it's hard rubbish time in my suburb so there are plenty of TVs out on the street. I drove around last night but only found a couple units with SCART ports. One was an LG Golden Eye which wouldn't come out of standby and the other was a Loewe Contur which works (but no remote).

I hooked the Contur up to my laptop and it showed a picture straight away. I started up Rainbow Islands and couldn't believe the difference! The reds don't bleed and every pixel is sharp and yet the image still has the warmth and character of a CRT. I just wish I had a remote so I could adjust the overscan.

The sound is tinny compared with the Loewe Calida and the screen isn't as huge but the difference in actual picture quality is very interesting.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on October 04, 2011, 02:36:48 pm
philips series 4xxx , 5xxx or older and grundig cuc 4xxx , 5xxx , 6xxx , 20xx make good arcadereplacement tvs , all are 50-60 hertz models with philips / philips lg tubes , sometimes maybe orion or toshiba . check philips homepage for infos or google fitforfuture pdf to list the 50 hertz grundig models . sometimes metz and loewe are an alternate option , but grundig and philips were the biggest crt tv supplieres in central europe . the eak philips tubes were build for maybe 25 years and u cab find em in many tvs sets and european arcade cabinets . the quality can be compared with toshiba or hitachi /nanao .

if u cant find european manufactured tvs u may try toshiba , lg , panasonic or orion .
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on October 05, 2011, 05:17:54 am
For SCART TVs, I look for these brands:

Euro:

- Phillips (most large ones)
- Loewe (all)
- Blaupunkt (all)
- Telefunken (all)
- Grundig (all)

And so forth. Most relatively recent models of these Euro TVs will have Phillips screens in them which are fantastic quality. They have a 'bonded yoke' (i.e. you can't adjust the purity and convergence rings as this is all done perfectly in the factory, no need to adjust).

Some cheaper brands I also consider are:
- Akai (some)
- Teac (some)
- Panasonic (some)
etc.

I just love Loewe 100mhz 'Blackline' TVs for MAME as they have a great picture. However, I have noticed that they have a tendency to develop 'dot-crawl', especially with red colours. I have a Loewe 100mhz 59cm TV mounted in my main vertical cab, but it suffers dot-crawl.

I am about to make a four-player cab using a working Loewe 100mhz 72cm TV. It works well, but exhibits some of this dot-crawl behaviour. However, I still love the tube. So, what I am going to do is pull the TV apart and take it's fantastic phillips tube w/ bonded yoke out, and use that to make an arcade monitor!

To do this, I measure the impedance (horizontal and vertical) of the yoke using a simple multimeter, and then order a arcade monitor chassis to suit from my mate Joey at JOMAC (in Perth, Western Australia). I then fit the chassis to the tube and viola, I have a fantastic arcade monitor! This will suit my plans perfectly as I am going to fit it into an old cab that already has a working arcade power supply and JAMMA setup, just no monitor at the moment.

The arcade monitor chassis will cost about $250, but I must compare this to the cost of getting the TV repair guy to look at my Loewe (about $150). Hmmmm, suddenly the arcade chassis idea is a lot more attractive! The arcade monitor will be a lot easier to fit into a cab as well.

In terms of hassle, using the tube to make an arcade monitor is generally simpler. No worries about getting a TV chassis mounted into a cab (they aren't designed for this!). No stuffing around with service modes. Greater flexibility about setting screen geometry and adjusting colours. Arcade monitors are easier and cheaper to get serviced (if necessary) as well, and I can do a lot of repair work myself. If I can't do it myself, I can just take the chassis and post it to my service guy if necessary.

By comparison, the local Loewe service guy always give me wierd, suspicious looks when I tell him what I am using my Loewe for. He insists on me giving him the complete TV, which is a problem if you have de-cased it to put in a cab. I can't post a complete TV, so I have to deliver it to him on the other side of town. The problems are more difficult for him to diagnose and fix, and he charges too much!

The best part about making arcade monitors from ex-TV tubes is that TV tubes are better quality (A-grade) than those typically used for standard arcade monitors (B-grade), and I don't have to worry about SCART. Any good quality TV will do, even if it doesn't work!


 
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on October 05, 2011, 07:03:40 pm
Wow! Thanks so much for the informative replies! Fascinating and useful reading.

Zebidee, your idea of hooking up the screen from a Loewe to an actual arcade chassis is tantalising. However, I'm probably going to have limit myself to keeping the original TV intact and attaching a controller to mimic the arcade feel (I've rewired an old Battlestation II controller with the guts from some cheap Logitech gamepads). My girlfriend is supportive of my love for arcade games but we're in an apartment and getting a cab up the stairs would be extremely difficult. The other thing is that while I'm nifty with a soldering iron, what you describe is probably beyond my abilities at the moment. I assume you're in Australia... but where abouts? I'd love to see your collection! :)

apfelanni, thanks for your input too! On your advice I've picked up some other units (from the side of the road) and noticed a marked difference in the way different TVs treat the RGB input. On the Loewe Calida, the picture is generally amazing but red text on black gives the game away. On the Loewe Contur, the colours are very clean but I've decided it looks a little more "clinical" than the Calida. I also have a Grundig with a CUC 6353 chassis. This screen is clean, bright and vibrant. However, this unit hasn't been cared for and there is some jitter in the bottom left corner and distortion along the left side. If it worked properly, I'd say the Grundig would be my choice. I also have a 16:9 Loewe Cantus that looks like it completely reprocesses all the RGB information it's given and spits it back looking very different. Looks great for video files but more like a regular VGA monitor for games.

I live in Brighton, Victoria, Australia which is a very affluent suburb. This means that when people throw out their old TVs, they tend to be top-of-the-line. There is staged hard rubbish for the next 4 weekends so I'll be out on the prowl.

Aside from the curb and eBay, where else do you guys find your SCART TVs? Even on eBay, a Grundig CRT only pops up now and then. The Loewes are more regular but it's still just a trickle. The others are even rarer. Man, I wish I'd known about this whole MAME/SCART scene 5 years ago! :(
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on October 06, 2011, 06:49:29 am
Go down to your local revolve/recycling centre. You might have to pay $5, but that is all.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on October 10, 2011, 01:46:02 am
Another scavenging update

I spent a few hours cruising around checking out all the junk on the sides of the streets in my suburb on the weekend.

I found four units with potential: 2 TEACs, 1 Grundig and 1 Loewe (which had the power cable snipped). The only other TVs with SCART ports were massive, silver coloured, widescreen Sonys. All the 16:9 flat screens CRTs I've tried have given a pretty crappy result (and the aspect ratio is obviously wrong for classic gaming) so I left those where they were.

Due to juggling car space, I had to ditch the Loewe in favour of a set of chairs my girlfriend wanted. Pity because it was an older Loewe with an E3000 chassis (same as the excellent Contur that I've mentioned). Shame I didn't get to try that one chances are it didn't work since the cable had been cut.

As for the others, one of the TEACs reeked of cigarette smoke and produced an laughable image: it was so blurred that it was what I'd call "impressionistic".  ;) Foggy shapes on the screen.

The second TEAC was better but had crappy colours: things were all over the place. Besides which, it was ugly and only a small screen. I was still interested to try but I ended up dumping it again.

I had high hopes for the Grundig! Such a stylish unit! Had my fingers crossed and luckily it powered up! The image is crisp, has vibrant colours and is completely free from dot crawl! The downside is that the image flickers slightly. I'm not talking about interlace flicker but a slight pulsation that is quite obvious when looking at a stationary image (e.g. the Windows desktop). This is most noticeable in the bottom left and top right corners. My other Loewes don't do this but I have seen this kind of unstable image many times before on actual arcade machines.

My question is this: is there an obvious fix for this kind of issue or would a repair be way too expensive to bother? I see that replacing caps is a big thing around here but I'm not sure what that remedies. I'd love to get this Grundig back to it's full glory: it's a great looking unit and I can tell the image would have been magnificent when it was in its prime.

Thanks for all the advice so far! :)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on October 10, 2011, 03:37:47 pm
I'm trying to connect a Sony Trinitron KV-X2502U to a Jamma PCB & PSU via scart. I thought I had connected it as per instructions from this thread, but I don't get any picture on the TV. The TV goes to AV1 when the cab is turned on and when I adjust the +5v on the Jamma switch mode psu I do get some screen wobble when its increased. Here is how I've wired it; (please can you let me know if I've done something wrong)

SCART  >> PCB / PSU

Pin 5/9/13/17 >> Video Ground
Pin 7 >> Blue Video
Pin 11 >> Green Video
Pin 15 >> Red Video
Pin 20 >> Sync
Pin 21 >> FG (PSU)
Pin 8 >> +12v (PSU)
Pin 16 >> +5v with 100 Ohms resistor (PSU)
Pin 18 >> Ground (PSU)

After I'd put the resistor in and checked it again it measures at 50 Ohms, is this right?


Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on October 12, 2011, 01:11:50 am
Out of interest, has anybody ever tried a Bang & Olufsen CRT for MAME/SCART purposes? In particular, the MX series? These units still seem to fetch a fair price and I was wondering whether they're actually any good or the high price is just driven by collectors and hype.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on October 13, 2011, 05:39:54 am

I'm not talking about interlace flicker but a slight pulsation that is quite obvious when looking at a stationary image ... My question is this: is there an obvious fix for this kind of issue or would a repair be way too expensive to bother?

Sounds like horizontal oscillator or something like that. But who knows for sure? The trouble is that every TV is different so you may be better off asking on a service tech forum somewhere. Or taking it to a local repair guy (~$150). Regarding value, refer to my earlier discussion on taking the tube from your Grundig (later model Grundigs use the nice Phillips tubes with bonded yokes) and using a brand new custom chassis. You can get them from www.jomac.net.au (http://www.jomac.net.au) (Australia, where I get them) or also from 8liners I believe (US). About $250 for a new chassis and much easier to service or repair yourself. Image quality will be as good or better than the Grundig was in its prime.

Quote
I see that replacing caps is a big thing around here but I'm not sure what that remedies.

I'm not such a big fan on applying cap kits. While this partial blanket approach may be a good idea for tired old arcade monitors that have been used in hot/humid environments, it rarely solves underlying major problems. Better to get an ESR (low ohms) meter with which you can test your caps without removing them from the board! That way you can tell exactly which caps need to be replaced.

Quote
Thanks for all the advice so far! :)

Thanks! I just got a warm fuzzy feeling :)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on October 13, 2011, 05:56:31 am
I'm trying to connect a Sony Trinitron KV-X2502U to a Jamma PCB & PSU via scart.

You may have sync problems because Jamma PCBs typically output fairly high sync and RGB signals. They might be 'out of range' for your Sony. You would have to test the voltages of these while on and 'in-circuit' (ie plugged in). Which I know is a pain because you have probably insulated everything etc.

Quote
After I'd put the resistor in and checked it again it measures at 50 Ohms, is this right?

Apparently no, but I'm not sure what else is in circuit or if you are shorting somewhere. Don't forget that you should test ohms (resistance / impedance) while off and you need to be aware of whatever else is in the circuit (e.g. many TVs RGB inputs are 75 ohm 'terminated'). For example, a circuit with two 100 ohm resistors in parallel will give 50 ohms resistance. Did you test your resistor before putting it in?

Try testing the voltage available to pin 16 while on and in circuit. It should be in the range 1-3 volts. Then try doing that for R-G-B. It should vary between around 0-1 volts.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on October 13, 2011, 05:57:32 am
Out of interest, has anybody ever tried a Bang & Olufsen CRT for MAME/SCART purposes?

They should work well. There is no reason why they shouldn't.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on October 13, 2011, 08:03:07 am
@Zebidee

Thanks for the detailed response.
I did test the resistor but while it was on a pcb so it may have been in parallel with another resistor. Hopefully I'll get chance to check tonight and try those voltages as well.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on October 14, 2011, 07:51:08 am
Another field report...

I went for a trip down the road tonight and tried out a Bang & Olufsen Beovision MX6000 that I saw on eBay. Amazing looking unit! Very "space age" and a real work of art. However, although it worked very nicely with MAME using SCART (good colours, no dot crawl), the actual image wasn't anything above the Loewes and Grundigs I've now tried. Plus, there was a bit of a defect in the very top part of the image: straight vertical lines showed something of a horizontal indent in the image. Considering the TV cost about $5,000 new, I found that surprising.

Overall, if I saw one of these cheap, I reckon I'd grab it. However, the owner was after top dollar so I decided it wasn't worth the asking price.

Definitely a viable option for MAME/SCART but not worth paying a premium for if (as I was) you're expecting the picture quality to equate directly to the original retail price.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on October 15, 2011, 09:41:47 am
Try testing the voltage available to pin 16 while on and in circuit. It should be in the range 1-3 volts. Then try doing that for R-G-B. It should vary between around 0-1 volts.

Only just had chance this morning to have a crack at this, Still no luck with getting a picture on the TV though.
I checked the voltages, the +5v (with 100 Ohms resistor) measures at 2.5v and the R-G-B measures at 0v. However when measuring the R-G-B there isn't any fluctuation at all on the meter it just stays on 0v, is this normal?
I did receive the cab untested so I don't even know whether the game PCB does work, Red lights come on the PCB but the monitor was shot so I couldn't tell if it did work. Could it be that there is no RGB signal coming from the PCB?  
I've attached a pic of how I've connected it up, excuse the crude wiring its just for testing at the minute.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on October 15, 2011, 11:30:55 am
Try testing the voltage available to pin 16 while on and in circuit. It should be in the range 1-3 volts. Then try doing that for R-G-B. It should vary between around 0-1 volts.

Only just had chance this morning to have a crack at this, Still no luck with getting a picture on the TV though.
I checked the voltages, the +5v (with 100 Ohms resistor) measures at 2.5v and the R-G-B measures at 0v. However when measuring the R-G-B there isn't any fluctuation at all on the meter it just stays on 0v, is this normal?

Switching signal voltage seems OK. The R-G-B voltage levels will vary depending upon what colours the PCB is trying to display. So, if the PCB is on black screen then there would be zero R-G-B voltage.

Quote
I did receive the cab untested so I don't even know whether the game PCB does work, Red lights come on the PCB but the monitor was shot so I couldn't tell if it did work. Could it be that there is no RGB signal coming from the PCB?  

Very possibly. You have too many unknowns. You need to test the PCB separately as its status is unknown. If you had another SCART cable and a MAME PC setup then you could at least test the TV separately.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on October 15, 2011, 01:40:58 pm

You need to test the PCB separately as its status is unknown. If you had another SCART cable and a MAME PC setup then you could at least test the TV separately.

I've tested the TV on a MAME PC I have and it does show a picture (see pic attached), So the cable is fine. I've also tested the PSU and that's ok as well, So it looks like it is an issue with the Video coming from the PCB. I guess the next step is to test the PCB, Not sure where to begin really, any pointers? Thanks for the help so far by the way.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on October 15, 2011, 02:36:51 pm
So it looks like it is an issue with the Video coming from the PCB.

Try another PCB? Maybe try a cheap multi game one from ebay. Or run your mame PC through a JPAC?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on October 15, 2011, 03:52:29 pm

Try another PCB? Maybe try a cheap multi game one from ebay. Or run your mame PC through a JPAC?

Yea I don't have any other Jamma PCB's but will get one from ebay, cheers.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on October 17, 2011, 06:07:11 pm
update .. a buddy from german arcadeforum suggested to take a 50/60 hertz sony kv-21x5d , kv-25x5d or a kv29x5d for mamescart or mak+pcb purpose . so i checked the neighborhood , found a workin 29 and 21 inch and a 25 inch with defective chassis . all tvs are using sony trinitron tubes , with great colors like the sony pvm series broadcasting monitors. first i tried the 29 inch . picture was good , but i dont really like lowres in 25+x inch. so i decided to swap the chassis with the smaller 25 inch tv. after some adjustment all was fine . the real surprise was the kv-x215d. i shopped one on ebay for 15 bucks . the pic quality was amazing .
maybe one of the best lowres tv replacement screens u can get . u may consider pickin a 50 hertz sony , if u find one on ure daily tour .

the downside of the trinitrons is :

- the tv sets are heavy as hell !! gorilla them back home is a real horror.. i thought 4 floors up - down with a 29 inch toshiba or philips flat tv sucks , but the 29 inch sony beats em all . 
- the tubes dont fit in common semi oder flat bezels ( and mounting frames ? ), so mounting + bezeling might be a problem if u want to replace a broken arcade crt.
- sonys sometimes have problems with geometry issues or discoloration / degauss in tate / cocktail position

lets say they have some potential for homemade cabinets , best horizontal mounted . other 50/60 hertz sonys with the fe1 chassis are :


KV25C5A SONY
KV25C5B SONY
KV25C5D SONY
KV25C5E SONY
KV25C5K SONY
KV25C5R SONY
KV29C5A SONY
KV29C5B SONY
KV29C5D SONY
KV29C5E SONY
KV29C5K SONY
KV29C5R SONY
KV21C5B SONY
KV21C5D SONY
KV21C5E SONY
KV21C5K SONY
KV21C5R SONY
KV21M5D SONY
KV21T5D SONY
KV21X5A SONY
KV21X5B SONY
KV21X5D SONY
KV21X5E SONY
KV21X5K SONY
KV21X5L SONY
KV21X5R SONY
KV21X5U SONY
KV25K5A SONY
KV25K5B SONY
KV25K5D SONY
KV25K5E SONY
KV25K5U SONY
KV29K5A SONY
KV29K5B SONY
KV29K5D SONY
KV29K5E SONY
KV29K5U SONY
KV29X5 SONY
KV29X5B SONY
KV29X5D SONY
KV29X5E SONY
KV29X5A SONY
KV29X5K SONY
KV29X5L SONY
KV29X5R SONY
KV29X5U SONY
KV25M2D SONY
KV25M2A SONY
KV25T2A SONY
KV25T2B SONY
KV25T2D SONY
KV25M2E SONY
KV25T2E SONY
KV25T2K SONY
KV25M2K SONY
KV25T2R SONY
KV25T2L SONY
KV25T2U SONY
KV25X5 SONY
KV25R2D SONY
KV25R2K SONY
KV29B5E SONY
KV25B5E SONY
KV25X5A SONY
KV25X5B SONY
KV25X5D SONY
KV25X5E SONY
KV25X5K SONY
KV25X5L SONY
KV25X5R SONY
KV25X5U SONY
KV25R2A SONY
KV25R2E SONY
KV29C5 SONY









Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on October 19, 2011, 08:06:18 am
Nice write up apfelanni!

Last weekend I found an old Sony "color monitor" on the side of the road that was like a cross between a TV and a computer monitor. No VGA port but, instead, a SCART port and an RGB pinout. There was also some kind of DIN socket. The screen had a sheet of glass across the front and the whole package was SUPER heavy despite that fact the screen must only have been around 20 inches. It was so heavy that it actually had metal carry handles!

Unfortunately I couldn't get a decent picture from it (think the SCART connection was dirty - jiggling helped) and because I already had 6 other TVs in my lounge room it had to go back out on the street. I should have taken a picture. Oh well.

I also found a weird old Blaupunkt. Very unique looking TV. Picture was quite good except for some ghosting on the reds. Again, I didn't keep it because the Grundig and Loewe are much better. I did takes some photos of the Blaupunkt though so I'll upload soon.

Thanks for the tips re: Sony. I'll keep an eye out for those models!

PS - I dropped off a Loewe Xelos at the op shop on Sunday and they had 2 Bang and Olufsens in the back room. I hassled the lady but she wouldn't let me have them because they weren't "sorted" yet. I went back 2 days later and they were gone without a trace. Damn. :(
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on October 21, 2011, 01:34:17 pm
Slight update - I got a cheap standard resolution Jamma PCB, tested it and it did produce a very imppresive picture on the TV.

I thought it was obviously a problem with the original PCB until I was advised that the Scart Hack TV setup only works with standard resolution PCB, is this right?
(The original PCB is a medium resolution PCB)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on October 23, 2011, 02:26:55 am
24 k wont work . lowres only .
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on October 23, 2011, 03:41:57 am
24 k wont work . lowres only .

Thanks for confirming  :cheers:
Title: Loewe TVs... again!
Post by: Paradroid on October 29, 2011, 11:49:28 pm
Another update on my search for the ultimate MAME/SCART TV

I picked up a Loewe CT1170 television on Friday for AUD $10. It was covered in dust and cobwebs but I shined it up with a micro fibre cloth and thoroughly cleaned the insides with an air compressor. Man, this is probably the best unit I tried yet! Great colors, no dot crawl, geometry is very good (not perfect, but close), convergence is excellent and the image is incredibly solid. I also love the retro look of this TV! All black, no gimmicky design tricks.

Overall, I can safely say that any Loewe with an E3000 chassis should be excellent for retro gaming. I've tried a Contur, Profil, Profil Plus and now the CT1170. All have produced a true image without the artifacts that newer Loewe chassis and software revisions introduce. I just wish I'd kept the Calida with an E3000 chassis I found on the sidewalk six months ago... :( I turfed it because it didn't have a remote and I couldn't get an image with PowerStrip. Of course, Soft-15kHz came into my life after that and I'm sure that TV would have been killer. Oh well. The search continues...

Attached is a a snap of the CT1170 and joystick setup on the workbench.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: MonMotha on November 13, 2011, 04:22:27 pm
FWIW, there should NEVER be dot crawl on an RGB (or any format that has separate luminance and chroma information) signal.  Dot crawl is caused by imperfect separation of the luma/chroma portions of composite video.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on November 13, 2011, 04:29:58 pm
Dot crawl is caused by imperfect separation of the luma/chroma portions of composite video.

Would that suggest that the Loewe models that exhibit dot crawl are converting the RGB signal internally before their image processing stages?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: MonMotha on November 13, 2011, 04:48:20 pm
Dot crawl is caused by imperfect separation of the luma/chroma portions of composite video.

Would that suggest that the Loewe models that exhibit dot crawl are converting the RGB signal internally before their image processing stages?

Could be.  It may have something to do with the fact that RGB on SCART was actually intended to be used for OSD overlay over a conventional composite video signal - using it for an actual video source just always keeps it in "overlay mode" - so the TV may be internally generate a composite signal that it would send on to later circuitry.  I'd think this would be pretty obvious, though; it would look more like composite than RGB.

It's also possible that you're seeing something similar that looks kinda like dot crawl but actually isn't.  Some deinterlacers and upscalers can do weird things on sharp lines in computer graphics.  Framerate conversions can also be problematic, depending on how they're done.

The wikipedia article on "Dot Crawl" has a picture that's pretty much a dead ringer for NTSC dot crawl, but I don't know if PAL dot crawl may look a bit different due to the phase alternation (again, not that it should be relevant on RGB). Is that what you're seeing on these things, or is it just more general "smudging"?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on November 14, 2011, 09:49:09 pm
It's also possible that you're seeing something similar that looks kinda like dot crawl but actually isn't.

Yep, that sounds about right. On the Calida I have (not sure which chassis off the top of my head) there are some wiggly bits but nothing as severe as the example image you linked to. It's easy to spot when you boot up something like Street Fighter III: the red text against black background looks unstable. With the Loewe E3000 chassis everything is rock solid.

I'm kicking myself because earlier in the year, when I first got into this caper, I found a Loewe 32" Calida on the side of the road. It worked fine but didn't have a remote. At that stage I hadn't discovered Soft-15kHz yet and was struggling with Powerstrip. I got rid of that TV because I couldn't figure out how to show an image from the PC correctly and a replacement remote would have cost $$$. Little did I know that it was the exact unit I wanted: a massive screen with a chassis well suited for MAME/SCART. Oh well, live and learn.
Title: More Loewes...
Post by: Paradroid on November 18, 2011, 02:56:02 am
Just got another Loewe CT1170 off eBay for $35. This one is even better than the other one I got a few weeks ago! I would certainly recommend this model to anyone looking for a SCART TV for MAME usage.

In other news, I tried out a Grundig ST 72-261/8 IDTV/LOG that I saw on Gumtree. Very stylish looking unit but when I pulled up the Nokia Monitor Test program, all sorts of issues were revealed. Shame. I really like the design style of the Grundig TVs.

I also picked up a Loewe Contur 1640 off the side of the road this afternoon. The 1460 I have is really good so here's hoping the 1640 will deliver also (provided it actually works ;) ).

While I was out I saw a Loewe Arcada, a few Teacs and one of those mega Sonys that apfelanni mentioned. Since I already had 2 units in the car I had to leave that be. Also, I doubt I would have been able to lift it by myself. :(

Anyway, I must have over 10 SCART TVs in the house now. Time to decide which ones stay and which ones go on eBay.

If anybody in Melbourne, Australia wants a cheap SCART TV suitable for MAME, now's the time to speak up. ;)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on November 18, 2011, 02:57:44 am
@apfelanni

I haven't forgotten about your question regarding what picture tubes are in the Loewes. I know they're Phillips but I'll take some photos of the fine print soon! Sorry, I was away with work all last week and this week has been super busy too.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on November 19, 2011, 02:27:57 pm
Hi there,

I started my first arcadecab build about a year ago. All went (reasonably well) until I bumped into a heap of troubles with my monitor (SCART tv) setup. Loooooooong story short, the whole thing is finished except for the monitor, and I finally got around to fixing that problem. I thought the source of the problem was a bad soldering joint in my cable, but after fixing that, I was still stuck with the following image:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/img0782yp.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/img0782yp.jpg/)

My cable is currently soldered like this:

VGA -------> SCART
1                    15
2                    11
3                    7
13/14              20
5/6/7/8/10       17

And then the molexplug as in the first post (the tv doesn't automatically search the right channel, but I don't really mind).

The GPU is a Nvidia geforce 7300, and the Soft15khz mode is on.

Any ideas what this could be? Thanks heaps!!

PS: On a different note, would a cable like this be of any use in a setup like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-Scart-Cable-Male-SVGA-VGA-15-Pin-HD-Plug-Lead-LCD-/230605424560?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item35b12787b0 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-Scart-Cable-Male-SVGA-VGA-15-Pin-HD-Plug-Lead-LCD-/230605424560?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item35b12787b0)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on November 19, 2011, 06:40:41 pm
the bay cable wont work .

- i dont see the pin 16 for rgb toggle wired .. grab the voltage from the sync signal ( dirty method ) or 5 volt from molex or vga pin 9 with a resistor . check some of the mamescart schematiscs ! which one works best depends on the video card and the tv set .
- the nvidia card may not work without a dongle , try older cards like geforce 5200 or a radeon 9200 , 9250 , or a pci card like 4350 .. check the compability list in soft 15 forum
- i would daisy chain the grounds on the scart adapter and solder the rgb grounds to the pins they are meant to be .
- 12 volt to pin 8 for av + 4:3 switch

u should try this one ( most good tv sets dont need the 1 k ressitors , some work fine with bridge pin 20 > 16 instead of external voltage ) .
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on November 19, 2011, 07:29:33 pm
Any ideas what this could be?

I used the cable type documented here: http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows_entertainment_and_connected_home/f/14/t/39520.aspx (http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows_entertainment_and_connected_home/f/14/t/39520.aspx)

This cable has worked with all the various video cards and TVs I've tested so far.

Maybe worth a try?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on November 22, 2011, 04:13:05 am
I currently have the following cable setup:

VGA -----------> SCART
1                      15
6                      13
2                      11
7                       9
3                       7
8                       5
9       100ohm     16
5                      18
13    1000ohm     20
14    1000ohm     20
10                     17

But this setup is not working. Here's the picture I'm getting: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/img0788d.jpg/. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/img0788d.jpg/.) Could the problem here be that the card is too "new" for the soft15khz tool? Are the drivers not right? Is the cable not right (again)? Could it be fixed with a dongle?

Please help!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on November 22, 2011, 03:00:01 pm
have u checked the vga pin 9 voltage ? there are only very old vga cables with pin 9 wired and some graphiccards may not put out the 5 volt. sailersat should know if the nvidia card needs a dongle .
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on November 24, 2011, 12:01:42 am
Yeah, ditto to apfelanni's comment. Only some video cards output 5v on VGA pin 9

ATI cards do (this includes Ultimarc ArcadeVGA cards, which are based on ATI), but many other manufacturers do not.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on November 24, 2011, 03:23:56 am
So a possible solution is to go back to the molex to add the 9v and the 12v?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: orchidius on November 24, 2011, 05:16:10 am
Ok, I hooked up the molex plug again, leading +5v to scart pin 16 with a 100ohm resistor inbetween and 12v to scart pin 8. I hooked up ground to an external ground, but that didn't seem to make any difference. Here's the picture I'm getting:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/img0794g.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/img0794g.jpg/)

You can clearly see the windows login screen, but the color is orange/red-ish and the sync seems off...

Thanks heaps for the help btw guys!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on November 25, 2011, 11:19:27 am
I have the option of using 1 of 2 ATI cards I have to hand with a Scart TV setup, a HD 4550 and a HD 4650 (both 512mb).
The 4650 has better performance but 2 DVI ports & 1 S-Video, where as the 4550 with less performance has VGA, HDMI & DVI.
Which card would produce the best picture though, the better 4650 with a DVI to VGA adapter or the 4550 using its VGA port?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on November 29, 2011, 04:36:23 pm
Anyone based in the UK that can make one of these scart to vga cables for me? By the time i get around to buying a solder iron, solder and all the bits i might aswell a professional to make one for me
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on November 30, 2011, 09:07:16 am
Ok found a crappy solder iron in the garage, and used the diagram on the first page of this thread and solder everything up bar the chassis ground on the vga end and the 12v and 5v wires to connect up to the PC. I have nothing installed (not even windows) on the pc at the moment and have connected it up to my LCD screen to make sure i was getting a picture, and this is the display i was greeted with......

(http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/8660/img0502vj.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/img0502vj.jpg/)

Any ideas?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on November 30, 2011, 03:45:16 pm
what did u expect ? get a 50 /60 hertz crt tv set and try again . u wont see anything but flickering at all . 
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on December 01, 2011, 12:36:16 pm
Well i installed windows xp and the ctr_emudriver_6.5 for my ATI card and hook the pc up to my CRT TV, when turning on the PC the TV screen seems to display loads of white dots on the screen that seem to scroll really fast down the screen, i can hear the screen turn to a different refresh rate about 3 time and then i just get a black screen with no white dots or scrolling... i guess the system is in windows at this point. Any ideas on whats wrong here?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on December 01, 2011, 04:24:47 pm
ctr emudriver ??

- plug pc monitor on
- install windows
- install ati catalyst driver pack
- set comp to 640x480 60 hertz 32 bit
- copy soft 15 k to hd
- copy quickres to hd and set it to autostart
- start soft 15k , click install soft 15 k
- power down
- plug on mamescart cable and ur scart 50/60 hertz tv

- restart >bingo , after loading the driver ure in 15 k mode windows ( 640x480 interlaced , 32 k ). if u want progressive mode try lower resolutions
via quickres .. gl

some tvs may work well in 640x480 , others in 512x 448 or whatever u like . use tvs osd/potis to fix overscan ,image size , position etc.




Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on December 03, 2011, 07:29:54 pm
I have the option of using 1 of 2 ATI cards I have to hand with a Scart TV setup, a HD 4550 and a HD 4650 (both 512mb).
The 4650 has better performance but 2 DVI ports & 1 S-Video, where as the 4550 with less performance has VGA, HDMI & DVI.
Which card would produce the best picture though, the better 4650 with a DVI to VGA adapter or the 4550 using its VGA port?

I decided to try and get this working with HD 4550 with Catalyst 9.5 Drivers but without any luck. I re-checked the cable numerous times and all pins are correctly connected and they all show continuity with a multimeter.
I have the cable setup as shown in the diagram below;

(http://s6.postimage.org/3u73ro859/vga2euro.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/3u73ro859/)

...but without the Audio cables connected and I used Pin 19 on scart instead of Pin 20, as per instruction in the site notes if you have a male to male cable,  HERE (http://www.geocities.ws/podernixie/htpc/cables-en.html)

I boot up the pc into XP, start Soft-15 and install 15khz rate, Start Quickres and set to 640 x 480 and have it set to start on windows startup, I restart the PC change the VGA cable over and all I get is a fuzzy AV-1 sign in the top corner which stops fuzzing after about 1 minute (when into windows desktop I'm guessing).

The tv I'm connecting to is Sony Trinitron KV-X2502U, I tried tinkering with a few of the Service mode options in case the TV is the issue, but other than a few obvious options like interlace, screen pos etc.. I a bit clueless as to which, if any, of the options might help the situation. Here are the service mode options;

(http://s6.postimage.org/tr0s4abst/Service_Mode_Options.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tr0s4abst/)

If anyone has managed to connect to a Trinitron, did you have to change any specific options?
Cheers.  
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on December 04, 2011, 06:28:02 am
forget the pin male to male nonsens , ure getting confused . scart pins a well defined . u should use a scart plug for soldering with printed numbers on at least one side . if the combined sync has to go to pin 20 so be it . u better cut and use a vga cable ( very old ones with pin 9 connected or new ones with coax rgb wires or audio included ) or solder it all complete from scratch . using a common scart cable makes no sense at all .

most sonys are very forgiving with the chosen cable shematics. my kv25 and kv 21 are working with a pin 9 5v cable and a hacked pc monitor cable i took from a defectice crt with bridged pin 20 to 16 and no pin 8 connected . but the molex thing wont hurt anyway . some tvs like grundig or philips may not switch to av/rgb without the fitting voltage on the scart pins . photo is taken from my kv21x5d ( 49 euro holiday cam and flash :) .

check the pin 19/20 problem . if cant find out whats causing the trouble ( cable , card , soft ,tv ) grab an old multisync from amiga or atari aera for testing.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on December 04, 2011, 07:46:09 am
The cable I've done is from scratch. A vga connector, scart connector, cable & resistors. I tried pin 20 first and then pin 19 without any joy.
Thanks for the info on the sony. I'll keep trying a few things.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on December 05, 2011, 04:01:19 am
I've built a new cable just to hopefully eradicate any cable errors.
I chopped the female end off an old style vga cable (with pin 9) and soldered it to a scart connector. I've checked each pin for continuity as well.
However it still isn't working and the only difference is that I get a garbled boot picture when the pc first boots.
I'm probably getting a bit confused here but what use is pin 9 on the vga cable in this vga-scart setup? As
don't see it connected anywhere in the diagrams
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on December 05, 2011, 04:06:59 pm
the sub-d 5 volt pin 9 can be used to set the tv to rgb and av mode. its usally missing on newer cables . if u cut a 15/15 male female cable it doesnt necessarily mean the pin is wired . u should meter the voltage ! 5 volt to pin 8 enables auto av , but sometimes in 16:9 mode. some tvs ignore the voltage and switch to 4:3 . 

check this here . i upped the translated schematics from mamescart italy . make sure u dont mix up solderside and pin side of the vga and scart plug. best thing is to print it out or draw it on paper after u pinged the wires with a multimeter ( unless ure vga plug is a non hotglued screw version and u can verify the cable colors visual ).



https://rapidshare.com/files/435253427/Google_Translate.mht
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on December 05, 2011, 06:25:19 pm
Thanks for the file, everything you ever wanted to know about VGA-scart RGB by the looks of it.  :)

5.2 Schematic no.2 is how I connected my 2nd cable (cut female end off vga and soldered scart connector), the scart connector had pin numbers on both sides and is correctly soldered but even though each pin has continuity I now realise that vga pins 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12 and 15 are connected somewhere in the cable or inside the male side of glued vga connector, is this something to do with the foil surrounding each ground cable perhaps?

5.5 Diagram 6 is how I connected my 1st cable together (male vga connector, male scart connector, 2 x 1k Ohm res, 1x 100 Ohm res, cable), Again both the vga and scart connectors had pin numbers on both sides and is also soldered correctly, has continuity and I've put sync cables back onto pin 20 from 19. Still no picture on tv though.
The voltage on the red 5v cable with 100 Ohm resistor reads at 2.8v and the yellow 12v cable reads at 12.2v. Bit stumped as to why this cable wouldn't work.
 
To rule out the video card being the problem I've got a cheap one coming from ebay that is in the supported section on the soft-15khz website, I'll grab another scart tv as well.

 
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: karnov64 on December 06, 2011, 10:27:29 pm
if it has not been said already in this thread (havnt read through it all yet lol), if u want the auto switch to AV on your TV via pin 8 of the scart connector, but can only send 5v to this pin (perhaps if that is all your vga pin 9 can provide), and thus end up in 16:9 widescreen mode, but want 4:3 instead, go into your tv service menu and perhaps like my tv (14" beko) you will have the option to change the size (horiz/vert resize) of the widescreen mode, in which case u can simply 'resize' your 16:9 screen to 4:3, and save your changes.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on December 07, 2011, 07:54:33 pm
i upped the translated schematics from mamescart italy

Thanks for that apfelanni! You're a real asset around here! I'd never seen that page before and, although I read much of the information elsewhere, there's some cool stuff there. Gonna take me a while to get through it all but I'm looking forward to it! Some good holiday reading material... ;)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 08, 2011, 02:44:09 am
I decided to try and get this working with HD 4550 with Catalyst 9.5 Drivers but without any luck.  

Just an idea - the newer Catalyst drivers might not work for Soft15khz. Try using older Catalyst drivers, say 6.5.

http://drivers.softpedia.com/get/GRAPHICS-BOARD/ATI/ATI-Catalyst-65.shtml (http://drivers.softpedia.com/get/GRAPHICS-BOARD/ATI/ATI-Catalyst-65.shtml)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on December 08, 2011, 03:21:17 pm
For some reason I can't install any early versions of ATI drivers on the HD 4550, I'm guessing that only later versions are supported.
Hopefully my new card (HD4670) will arrive tomorrow, Its in the Soft15 support list with catalyst 9.2 drivers.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on December 13, 2011, 03:16:46 pm
Hey guys. I've posted some screenshots of my latest SCART discovery (it's a Siemens FS 343) over here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=116014.msg1235225#msg1235225 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=116014.msg1235225#msg1235225). Pretty nice TV! :)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on December 15, 2011, 05:12:47 pm
For some reason I can't install any early versions of ATI drivers on the HD 4550, I'm guessing that only later versions are supported.
Hopefully my new card (HD4670) will arrive tomorrow, Its in the Soft15 support list with catalyst 9.2 drivers.

The new card unfortunately yielded similar results with Soft-15, but I tried Powerstrip running via VNC and got a stable desktop picture of really decent quality on the tv (@ resolutions of 800x600 & 640x480). I just need to tweak the Screen size & position a bit, I'm presuming with Modelines but after plugging away at it, at what seems quite a while, feel like I'm getting somewhere now. Hoorar! :D
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on December 16, 2011, 04:25:58 pm
I tried a few different resolutions in Powerstrip and by adjusting a few things in the TV service menu got a full desktop picture at resolution 720x540.
I plan to use vga-scart setup in a Driving emulator cab. MAME games look good but the Sega Model 2 and 3 games don't look great. I realise now that Sega model 2/3 native resolution is 496x384 med res 24khz, so the TV won't show it at native res. Best I could get was 360x270 non-interlaced which looked pretty awful, 496x384 interlaced which looked ok apart from the flicker or 720x540 interlaced whch looked pretty good but again with the interlace flicker. Is this the best I can hope for or is there a way around getting it at native without interlace? (I've been trying things with Powerstrip & Winmodeline to no avail) or is my best bet a dual sync arcade monitor to get these native resolutions? cheers.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 20, 2011, 10:04:51 pm
I tried a few different resolutions in Powerstrip and by adjusting a few things in the TV service menu got a full desktop picture at resolution 720x540.
I plan to use vga-scart setup in a Driving emulator cab. MAME games look good but the Sega Model 2 and 3 games don't look great. I realise now that Sega model 2/3 native resolution is 496x384 med res 24khz, so the TV won't show it at native res. Best I could get was 360x270 non-interlaced which looked pretty awful, 496x384 interlaced which looked ok apart from the flicker or 720x540 interlaced whch looked pretty good but again with the interlace flicker. Is this the best I can hope for or is there a way around getting it at native without interlace? (I've been trying things with Powerstrip & Winmodeline to no avail) or is my best bet a dual sync arcade monitor to get these native resolutions? cheers.

Yes, it is the best you can do - although you might find some other similar res that works OK. Maybe you could get slight improvement in picture quality if you could generate an interlaced res of 496x384 (would still be interlaced, but no stretching etc), but I seem to remember having trouble getting similar resolutions when I tried using Powerstrip (mind you, that was some time ago), maybe because the refresh rates were around the middle of the 50-60 khz range. TVs tend to like refresh rates close to either 50 or 60 khz, but not near the middle (e.g. 53-57khz). Or something like that.

On a 15Khz/low-res/CGA monitor (which is what a SCART TV effectively is) you are limited to a maximum of 288 vertical lines, unless you go for interlacing which gives up to 572 vertical lines (theoretically). to get a non-interlaced res with 384 vertical lines you need a medium res monitor (in a practical sense, this means dual res).

As Scotty from Star Trek would say: "Yae cannae change the laws of physics". Although, of course, they seem to do that pretty routinely in Star Trek.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Jollywest on December 21, 2011, 05:12:47 am
Thanks, yea MonMotha did confirm with me that this was the case.
I guess I was just looking for a cheaper alternative to buying a dual res monitor. 
I tried 496 x 384 interlaced but even though the picture was ok, I couldn't get away with the flicker.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on December 26, 2011, 05:26:24 am
Hi everyone!  :)

I built my own VGA-SCART cable as shown on this site:
https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home (https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home)

It works very well. I use it to watch movies or playing games with emulator or PC games with resolution 640x480 and 800x600.

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 28, 2011, 10:00:27 am
Hi everyone!  :)

I built my own VGA-SCART cable as shown on this site:
https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home (https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home)

It works very well. I use it to watch movies or playing games with emulator or PC games with resolution 640x480 and 800x600.

Regards,
joecontra

Interesting circuit diagram.

Unfortunately, most of the images at the linked site are unviewable - seems to require some registration at imageshack.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on December 28, 2011, 12:09:10 pm
Hi!

Which images? What do you see insted of the pictures? A print screen would be nice.
I will have to fix that problem.

Regards,
joecontra

Hi everyone!  :)

I built my own VGA-SCART cable as shown on this site:
https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home (https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home)

It works very well. I use it to watch movies or playing games with emulator or PC games with resolution 640x480 and 800x600.

Regards,
joecontra

Interesting circuit diagram.

Unfortunately, most of the images at the linked site are unviewable - seems to require some registration at imageshack.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 28, 2011, 03:45:45 pm
Hi!

Which images? What do you see insted of the pictures? A print screen would be nice.
I will have to fix that problem.

Regards,
joecontra

All of the pics (but not vids) have been substituted with this (attached).
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on December 29, 2011, 03:31:28 am
Hi!

I fixed the problem on the main page. Is it okay now?

I'm going to do that on the full site.

Regards,
joecontra

Hi!

Which images? What do you see insted of the pictures? A print screen would be nice.
I will have to fix that problem.

Regards,
joecontra

All of the pics (but not vids) have been substituted with this (attached).
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on December 29, 2011, 10:08:56 am
Hi!

I went trough the entire site and fixed all image issues. But please check it.

https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home (https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/home)

Regards,
joecontra

Hi!

I fixed the problem on the main page. Is it okay now?

I'm going to do that on the full site.

Regards,
joecontra

Hi!

Which images? What do you see insted of the pictures? A print screen would be nice.
I will have to fix that problem.

Regards,
joecontra

All of the pics (but not vids) have been substituted with this (attached).
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on December 29, 2011, 10:01:32 pm
@joecontra

Yes, much better and a very interesting article!

I like it a lot :cheers:
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on December 30, 2011, 04:31:43 am
Thanks! (http://prohardver.hu/dl/s/rl.gif)

Regards,
joecontra

@joecontra

Yes, much better and a very interesting article!

I like it a lot :cheers:
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on January 09, 2012, 03:31:43 pm
todays test subject : philips 25pt4513 02 , chassis md1.2 , mf date around 1998-99.

pro : good picture , nice colors , sharpness and geometry ,a solid chassis ( and tube, the philips eak may be the best european lowres tubes u can get ) , displays nearly any resolution of the hacked catalyst pack .

cons : massive 2 part + breakout pcbs chassis , servicemode accessible via service remote or shorting 2 servicepins on the chassis ( grundig is more the idiotproof osd type and contains smaller , but maybe cheaper chassis ) . shots taken with 49 euro cam , so they are not 100 % accurate :)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on January 10, 2012, 04:24:40 pm
Damn that looks good! Thanks for the report! Those images look fantastic. Great colors and the focus seems to go all the way to the edges. Very nice!

I wish that I could find a Phillips like that... Australians have heaps of Sonys and Phillips going in the trash but most are the yellow/red/white RCA variety with no SCART ports. :(
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on January 11, 2012, 02:44:10 pm
today i did some more testing with the nokia test program . i noticed there are a few lines on the top missing . i only did some rough testing ingame mame yesterday and idiot me screwed the tv back together , so i cant reach the service pins anymore. i was afraid the tube getting necked . next time i de-torx the case its gonna end up replacing the samsung weiya in my ok baby cab . i also ordered a substitute tv dealer service remote for 20 euro . for the original philips remote they ask around 100 euro , so that wasnt an option . i tried to take a snap of the windows interlaced desktop , but realized the cam shows some missing lines the eye wont even notice. but i would say the interlaced 640x480 output is sharper than most of the cheap china brand naomi vga screens i had running in progressive mode ( not to mention theire geometry faults) . the used mamescart cable isnt of the best quality . i took a cable of a broken pc monitor , twisted the sync and bridged pin 20 to 16 for rgb toggle. all my better cables are cabbed or given to friends with zero soldering skills . i hope the mamescart cable soldering is soon coming to an end and the slg engineering crew is presenting a pcb for plug and play. i would prefer to spend the saved time playing my cabs than inhaling lead nebula ..
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on January 11, 2012, 08:37:15 pm
@apfelanni

Those screenshots look great! Very nice.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Calamity on January 12, 2012, 04:37:11 pm
@apfelanni,

If you're using the modded ATI drivers, try recalculating the modelines increasing the vertical back porch, that might solve your missing lines at the top issue.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on January 16, 2012, 12:19:01 am
MAME/SCART enthusiasts: I've started a blog!

http://scarthunter.blogspot.com/ (http://scarthunter.blogspot.com/)

It's off to a slow start due to all the fun I've been having in the Aussie sun. However, I have quite a backlog of TVs that I'm working my way through (testing, comparing, selling, etc.) and I hope to write about them I progress.

No doubt I'll get more time to fiddle and document when the weather gets cooler and the days shorter... thankfully not for a while yet. ;)

Enjoy!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on January 27, 2012, 09:38:12 am
I managed to snag a Sony KV-25K5U TV from eBay this week for a grand total of 99p! I hadn't even read apfelanni's post about the KV series of Sony TVs before I pick this Sony up so was a spot of luck that it has one of the best chassis for Mame!. The picture is really something else and blows away my other 2 TV I have for Mame (Sharp & Bush), and these 2 other TVs are a hell of a lot newer not just in age but usage aswell and the Sony still beats them!.

I would love to see what the Sony would have looked like when new as I'm guessing the picture might not be as sharp and vivid as it was when new. I have noticed that the Sony takes around 5-8 seconds to display a picture when turned on I guess this is a sign of the TV being old and well used?, why does this happen? Would a cap kit for the Sony (if one is available?) bring any sharpness or vividness loss back to the TV and decrease the amount of time it take for a pic to be displayed when turned on?

None of these are massive problems really and as I said the picture is still amazing, but this TV is defiantly a keeper so would like to give it some TLC 
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on January 29, 2012, 04:12:52 pm
apfelanni, any ideas how the FE-1A chassis of the Sony KV-29FX20U fares??
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: SailorSat on January 30, 2012, 01:05:57 am
i would prefer to spend the saved time playing my cabs than inhaling lead nebula ..
But thats the best part of it after all  :duckhunt
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on January 30, 2012, 05:24:20 pm
sorry , the only sonys i checked were some kv25 and 29x models. it appears sony used different names for their tv models in euro and uk zone . 90 % of the old 4:3 sonys on ebay germany are kv x1,2,3,4,5 . but ur right with one thing . both my 25 inch sonys arent 100 % sharp . i havnt tried to adjust the focus yet , but it may be a consequence of aging electronic parts. i cant tell how sharp they are when leaving the factory , never bought a new one . but compared to some 10-20 year old philips they appear to weaken much more in sharpness , especially the bigger ones . on the other hand i tested 3 50 hertz philips and all of them had noticable sharper images than a grundig with the same tube . if they hadnt sold b-grade tubes to their daughter ( grundig ) it must be chassis related . there always pros an cons on different manufacturers and their models . as an alternative try a 25 or 28 inch philips 4xxx or 5xxx series with the rock solid old eak tubes . u may find lots of em for 1 euro on ebay . 

 
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on January 31, 2012, 03:56:50 pm
Ok thanks for the info, would you say the 4 and 5 series philips are the next best thing to the sonys then?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on January 31, 2012, 05:07:51 pm
the 4xxx and 5xxx philips are the 50/60 hertz models from 1995 - 200x around .  u ll find the philips tubes in loewe , metz or grundig.
i d say take what u can get ur hands on . metz and loewe were premium in quality of chassis , philips and grundig more the midrange price sector . for cabinet monitor replacement i usually take grundig , coz they are the most common her in ger , cheap ( mostly 1 euro on ebay , while people ask bout 10-20 euro for a metz or a philips ) and they are the easiest to handle . u can dismantle them in a few minutes , all is idiot proof and very well documented . metz and philips made it more difficult to take the tv apart ( philips with microtorx , grundig with 6 ordinary srews , philips osd via service remote ,metz via tricky combinations on the front panel , grundig just via " 8500 " input per remote. the difference in picture quality is minor . i d say give it a shot . philips uk was the last great location for tube fabricating . nearly all bigger grundigs mf after 2k had philips/ lg tubes made in uk , because the german tube factory was closed at this point and the french was following shortly. so dont tell me u cant find any 50-60 hertz 4:3 tvs  in the uk . dunno what they most sell in the uk . toshiba or orion may also be worth a try . toshibas are always my first choice in tubes .  ill try to avoid samsungs and thomson . today i dumped my ok baby 29 inch samsung in the junk . it wasnt that bad , good as new , no burns , but i hated it . i could never handle the geometry to my satisfaction and the tube mask looked somehow terrible on lowres games like neogeo . the 25 inch philips will fit in tomorrow. 


   
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on February 01, 2012, 08:23:21 am
Interesting info!! Yeah over here in the UK around the time of CRT's the mainstream players where...

Sony
Toshiba
Hitachi
Philips
Panasonic
JVC
Sharp

Then u had the budget boys.....

Bush
Thomson
Ferguson
Goodmans
Daewoo
Sanyo

Just beacuse the badge was on the front of the TV never ment the chassis or tube was made by the same company!, of course back then I was none the wiser!. Loewe , Metz were non existant in the UK and Grundig were hard to find.

Now at the moment I only have 3 CRTs in testing.....

Bush RF2185NTXSIL/A
Sharp 21HT15H
Sony KV-25K5U

I have notice both the bush and sharp TVs really don't have a stable picture when running my NTSC SNES through them via Scart, the overal picture is jittering ever so very slightly but the Sony picture is rock solid!, any ideas why the bush and sharp have this unstable picture? Also both the bush and sharp have this weird contrast effect where the picture seem to jump up in brightness or darkness all of a sudden, say for example there's any explosion in a game then the contrast of the picture seems to jump up and then back down again, this never happens with the Sony!?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on February 01, 2012, 03:26:49 pm
toshiba,hitachi and panasonic may be worth a try , but most of  2k+ tvs were 100 hertz models. u can find those identical tubes in lots of candy cabs in the combination toshiba chassis + tube , nanao chassis and toshi tube or nanao chassis + hitachi or mitsubishi tube . the famous eizo computer crts used hitachi tubes as well.

i m not sure whats up with sharp and jvc . some say jvc tvs are made with crap chassis made in turkey , like the after 2005 ( beko , vestel ) grundigs . so far i experienced the rebranded cheapass china or eastern europe tvs are nothin but waste of time . 5 $ chassis + tube made in tadschikistan > epic fail .

today i mounted the philips tube into the ok baby monitor frame via some l-profiles i had laying around . a first mockup was fine , it needs only little adjustments with the bezel . tomorrow i ll fix the chassis on the new plywood chassis board ,connect the speakers to the onboard stereo audio amp etc. compared to sony or grundig the philips chassis is a little oversized , but for horizontal orientation that doesnt matter . for vertical setups the chassis in jap cabs are usually mounted 1/3 , 2/3 , so they wont interfere with the casing . good thing i have 50+? of tvs to pick from .



Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on February 02, 2012, 07:11:17 am
metz and loewe were premium in quality of chassis , philips and grundig more the midrange price sector

I can attest to that! Up until recently I had a pile of Loewes with the E3000 chassis. The different Grundigs (in Grundig, Siemens and Blaupunkt TVs) I've tried have been more compatible but, man, the E3000 is so damn sharp and stable! I hooked up my Contour 1470 with an E3000 tonight and was reminded of how good the image is. Just a crying shame I can't work out how to get 240+ vertical lines showing on it. :( The geometry is absolutely perfect (not sure what the tube model is but the Phillips in the Contur smokes the EAKs in the CT1170s I have. It's flatter and better geometry without doubt.) The other thing with the Loewes is that the picture doesn't "bulge" near as much when bright flashes appear in games. The Grundigs will dim briefly everytime Strider flashes his sword!

@apfelanni: Have you tried any Loewes with the E3000 chassis? I'd love to know if you were able to get 240 vertical lines showing properly without any missing lines at the top or bottom.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on February 03, 2012, 05:36:25 pm
Is the E3000 chassis digital??...i think this bulge and dim effect you talk about is due to the digital chassis!. I have this dim and brighten effect on both my Sharp and Bush TV...but the Sony none of this what so ever!! I just wish there was someway to rotate the display just a few degress so it square!...does the CCC has an option for the ATI gfx card to rotate the display in degrees??
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on February 04, 2012, 07:19:29 pm
I can also attest to the Loewe's with the Philips screens and E3000 chassis as being superior to most or all other brands.

I've used a few Loewes in cabs before. My best friend is still using a Loewe in the cab I made for him in 2006! I have also used the Philips screens, from Loewe and other brands, combined with brand new a Sharp SI custom arcade chassis in several cabs.

I am also currently using a 26" Loewe in my vertical cab. However, I don't use this nearly as much as my main horz cab. With this Loewe, I do notice a dot-crawl on red and there is a thin strip (1/2 cm wide) of discolouration on the top of the screen (actually the left as it is vertically mounted) that my local Loewe service guy had no simple explanation for.

I have used a couple of Thomsons in cabs and found them to be really impressive. Quite simple electronics but gets the job done. I am currently using a 20" Thomson TV in a vertical cab, fitted with a 48-in-1 chassis and operating daily in the amenities/lunch room at my office! It has been working well for 2-3 year now.

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on February 05, 2012, 01:15:17 am
I can also attest to the Loewe's with the Philips screens and E3000 chassis as being superior to most or all other brands.

Zebidee, the pics of your cabs make me drool! :notworthy: The "PRINCESS ARCADE GAMES CABINET" in particular does big things for me.

However, what I am dying to know is this: have you ever managed to get 256 vertical lines showing correctly with an E3000 chassis?! If it weren't for the fact that I can't get every line of R-Type to show on an E3000 I'd end the search for the perfect monitor right now.

If you get a chance, I'd love for you to spend some time testing how many lines you can get an E3000 to show. If you succeed, I'd be mighty interested in knowing what settings and switches you used. As it stands, even 240 line games have missing lines for me. Adjusting the V-Size simply shrinks a cropped image (on my Grundigs adjusting the Height reveals the missing lines).

BTW, I'm using Arcade_OSD, crt_emudriver and GroovyMAME for my testing (and playing ;) ).
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on February 10, 2012, 07:08:04 pm
I can also attest to the Loewe's with the Philips screens and E3000 chassis as being superior to most or all other brands.

Zebidee, the pics of your cabs make me drool! :notworthy: The "PRINCESS ARCADE GAMES CABINET" in particular does big things for me.

Thanks! That Princess cab was one of my favourites to restore. Deep scratches in the 70's wood veneer responded really well to acrylic wood putty mixed with light brown acrylic paint being rubbed in. Popped a TEAC TV into it and had a new control panel done up by a metal shop. Got some Pacman-inspired art professionally printed for the control panel surface and marquee. Sold it for $500, even without a PC.

I haven't done much arcade stuff  for a while and most of my cabs have been sold now. I only have four remaining: Wonder Boy (5th from left, new 20" arcade monitor, fully JAMMA original Gottlieb cab w/ WBoy PCB), the vertical cab with Donkey Kong Jnr in the picture (8th from left, has the 26" Loewe) and the dark blue one (10th from left, 27" Sony professional video monitor). Oh, and a vertical cab with 20" Thomson TV and 48-in-1 PCB in the lunch room at work (not pictured).

Quote
However, what I am dying to know is this: have you ever managed to get 256 vertical lines showing correctly with an E3000 chassis?! If it weren't for the fact that I can't get every line of R-Type to show on an E3000 I'd end the search for the perfect monitor right now.

If you get a chance, I'd love for you to spend some time testing how many lines you can get an E3000 to show. If you succeed, I'd be mighty interested in knowing what settings and switches you used. As it stands, even 240 line games have missing lines for me. Adjusting the V-Size simply shrinks a cropped image (on my Grundigs adjusting the Height reveals the missing lines).

Hmmm, I don't recall ever having problems with getting 256 lines on other Loewes I have used.

The Loewe in my vertical is the only one I currently have. It is a Calida 5763, but on re-inspection it turns out that this is a 'Blackline' series Q414 chassis, which is actually a 100hz digital chassis. I did this cab many years ago. Technically very nice except for the dot-crawl on red that I mentioned previously. It manages 256 lines easily (just tested it).

Quote
BTW, I'm using Arcade_OSD, crt_emudriver and GroovyMAME for my testing (and playing ;) ).

I have never used these so can't really comment. However, I would suggest that you access your Loewe's service mode and try to (cautiously) play with the geometry to eliminate any overscan. You could also look at your back/front porch settings when creating video modes.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on February 10, 2012, 07:30:08 pm
@Zebidee: thanks for taking the time comment on the Loewes. I have to say I'm surprised that you haven't encountered this problem. However, you've given me the enthusiasm to get back in there and see if I can get 256 lines up and running. As I've mentioned, I have other TVs that will do 256 but none match the image quality of the Loewes (the E3000 in particular).

I've tried the Q414 and didn't like it. I started this whole caper with a 100 Hz Calida and thought that was fantastic. However, I found an E3000 Contur on the side of the street, tried that and there was no turning back. That was a revelation. Now I just can't stand the colour bleed and crawl of those later models, despite the awesome tubes and perfect focus. The E3001 is also good (same as the E3000 but with the menu system of the later models) but after that the crappy image processing junk got introduced.

Also, thanks for the details on the Princess Cab! My dream is to build something like that from scratch one day. I definitely love that wood grain vibe contrasting with some day glo buttons and artwork. Kitsch, I know, but it just takes me somewhere else! :) If you have some larger photos, I'd love for you to email me some one day.

After reading your post, I'm gonna check out the Loewe vertical line limit issue again soon and let you know how I go... would be great if that could be overcome!

Oh, and BTW, you really should check out GroovyMAME sometime! ;)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Steve248 on March 05, 2012, 06:01:59 pm
Hi,

My motovation for this post is I have just a new ArcadeVGA http://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html (http://www.ultimarc.com/avgainf.html) card and do not want to blow it up!

I bought a Sony Trinitron 27" TV (KV-29X5D) recently and want to connect it to the Ultimarc ArcadeVGA card and have read all of this thread but also got some advice from Andy at Ultimarc who suggested this post: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/callum.henderson/basement_boomera_000007.htm (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/callum.henderson/basement_boomera_000007.htm)

I have followed the instructions on the website above as much as I can but could really do with some help to make sure I am doing everything correctly. I have attached an image from that link (I hope that is ok).

VGA 5 (Ground) > Scart Isolated (I have no idea what this means?)
VGA 10 > Scart Isolated (Once again, I do not know what this means.)
VGA Shield > Scart 21 (Shell / Ground) (Does this mean join the casing on both the Scart lead to the VGA casing?)

Above are the main questions I have. Can someone help me to understand what I am supposed to do with these?

Secondly, am I doing the right thing using this configuration fo ArcadeVGA with a Sony KV-29X5D?

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated before I do something really stupid  :-\

Many thanks in advance...

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 04, 2012, 05:01:57 pm
Maybe you should use an other schematic.
I attached the one I use.

Regards,
joecontra

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Steve248 on April 06, 2012, 04:07:39 pm
Thank you, I will try.

This is so odd, this was a really active thread and now totally dead. This is really useful stuff.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 06, 2012, 11:54:11 pm
I try to monitor the thread, but don't have the same time anymore sinc doing back to full time work. Last month has been really busy as well.

However, most of these wiring questions have all be asked and answered before on this thread.

Steve, I find that schematic your first put up too confusing. The one joe contra posted is a better guide. However, you don't need to worry about the transistors and resistors on the sync line if you are using an arcadevga card or any ATI card. nVIDIA cards can also be used, so long as you make sure they are outputting on negative sync for both horz and vertical. in fact, any card will work so long as it is outputting on double negative.

However, you will need the 100ohm resistor on the wire going into SCART pin 16. also note that unless you have an arcadevga or some other ATIcard, you won't get 5v from VGA pin 9. A surer way to build your cable is with external 5v power source from an internal PC power connector.

Many tvs will work if you just put a wire bridge between Scart pins 16 and 20, which is a heck of a lot simpler and definitely worth a try.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 07, 2012, 06:08:45 am
Steve248
Thank you, I will try.
This is so odd, this was a really active thread and now totally dead. This is really useful stuff.

I'm here now, I keep eye on topic. :)


Zebidee
unless you have an arcadevga or some other ATIcard, you won't get 5v from VGA pin 9
I'm using NVIDIA card, and it provides +5V from pin 9.

you will need the 100ohm resistor on the wire going into SCART pin 16
It's in the diagram. :)

make sure they are outputting on negative sync for both horz and vertical
I saw some cases where the card didn't give negative sync, and it didn't let change this option.
With my card there is no problem with that.
But if the card provides only positive snyc signals there's also a solution, this one:

(http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/syncbox.gif)

This is a sync merger circuit which is independent from the polarity of the incoming sync signals. On the output it gives only negative C-Sync.
To build this circuit is not that hard as it seems. I attached an image of it including an EEPROM chip.

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on April 07, 2012, 08:29:32 am
This is so odd, this was a really active thread and now totally dead.

All it needs is new blood like you to bring it back to life! ;)

Another schematic that comes highly recommended can be found here (http://www.geocities.ws/podernixie/htpc/cables-en.html#vgascart).

Also, plenty of SCART action going on over in the GroovyMAME (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?board=52.0) forum.

Oh, be sure to check out my blog (http://scarthunter.blogspot.com.au/) too. :)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 07, 2012, 03:43:01 pm
Many tvs will work if you just put a wire bridge between Scart pins 16 and 20, which is a heck of a lot simpler and definitely worth a try.

So would the diagram attached be correct for a ATI card??

Also whats the black ?wire that comes from VGA pin 10 and goes to pin 17 and bridges to pin 18 on the scart?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 07, 2012, 03:46:23 pm
So would the diagram attached be correct for a ATI card??
If you lead voltage from SCART 20 to SCART 16 (what I would not do), then why giving power from the VGA too?

Also whats the black ?wire that comes from VGA pin 10 and goes to pin 17 and bridges to pin 18 on the scart?
These are GND pins.

I noticed that a cable with the BC548B gives better picture than the one with the twisted sync wires.

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 07, 2012, 05:35:43 pm
So would the diagram attached be correct for a ATI card??
If you lead voltage from SCART 20 to SCART 16 (what I would not do), then why giving power from the VGA too?

Its just what Zebidee suggested bridging pins 20 and 16 together. So if i did bridge pins 20 and 16 then i dont need wire in Pin 9 on the VGA ti pin 16 on the scart?
Title: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter
Post by: Paradroid on April 07, 2012, 08:48:36 pm
Breaking news!

I think it might be time to retire from building VGA to SCART cables. Gonna be hard to top this awesome little device in terms of features and price:

(http://wp1114205.wp150.webpack.hosteurope.de/xtcmodified/images/product_images/popup_images/57_0.JPG)

For sale over at ArcadeForge: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter (http://wp1114205.wp150.webpack.hosteurope.de/xtcmodified/product_info.php?products_id=57)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 07, 2012, 11:24:54 pm
@paradroid

That little umsa VGA-Scart device is pretty cool, thanks for posting up the link. Quite impressive, although I note that the price does not include the 5v power supply, nor the VGA and male-male Scart cables. 29 euros is cheap enough to make it competitive and a real option to building one's own cable, but the add-ons make it less attractive. They could easily add 10-25 euros to the cost, depending upon where you get them.

I had a look at your link to that other Scart cable with the 1k ohm resistors on sync. that might actually be a solution to the vague problems I have with 100hz Loewe tv in my vertical cab. worth a try.

@lettuce if you bridge Scart 20 - 16 then you can bypass the 5v power altogether. trouble is, it only works for some tvs. it is quite easy to make this kind of cable so it is worth a try. I have several different types of vga-scart cables on hand to use when testing tvs.

@joe contra what is bc548b again?
Quote
joe contra
Zebidee

you will need the 100ohm resistor on the wire going into SCART pin 16
It's in the diagram. :)

yeeeaaaah!  That's why I put the "the" in there. Just confirming that one needs to keep that one, even if you get rid of the other resistors & transistor in the diagram (ironically, I was trying to avoid confusion).

Quote
joe

make sure they are outputting on negative sync for both horz and vertical
I saw some cases where the card didn't give negative sync, and it didn't let change this option.
With my card there is no problem with that.


Yeah. Video cards for make are so cheap these days, so it is probably easiest to just buy a compatible ATI or other card. On the soft15khz thread there's is a link to a list of cards tested to be compatible with soft15khz, and this is a good place to start.

The nVIDIA cards have an option to adjust sync in the control panel software driver thingy. It has been a while since I have tried to use nVIDIA cards though.

When I used the powerstrip software, it always gave an option to adjust sync polarity regardless of the card.

That sync converter is pretty noice, but still a lot more trouble than twisting wires! I've managed to avoid sync converters for all of my cabs so far. Still, pretty good to be able to do it.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 07, 2012, 11:41:17 pm
I also noticed that the Arcadeforge site sells a soft15khz dongle to make high-end video cards compatible with soft15khz.

I wonder what it does exactly ... And what it might do to the sync signals. It may actually be a cheaper way to make a video card compatible with simpler VGA-Scart cables (and therefore avoid the need to solder up sync converting PCBs).

http://wp1114205.wp150.webpack.hosteurope.de/xtcmodified/index.php?cPath=10 (http://wp1114205.wp150.webpack.hosteurope.de/xtcmodified/index.php?cPath=10)
Title: Re: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter
Post by: lettuce on April 08, 2012, 03:46:29 am
Breaking news!

I think it might be time to retire from building VGA to SCART tables. Gonna be hard to top this awesome little device in terms of features and price:

(http://wp1114205.wp150.webpack.hosteurope.de/xtcmodified/images/product_images/popup_images/57_0.JPG)

For sale over at ArcadeForge: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter (http://wp1114205.wp150.webpack.hosteurope.de/xtcmodified/product_info.php?products_id=57)

Great find my friend!, one thing that bugs the hell out of me though is it requires a external power supply. He could of drawn the power from pin 9 on the VGA side if the user was using an ATI card :-(
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 08, 2012, 04:37:03 am
@paradroid

I had a look at your link to that other Scart cable with the 1k ohm resistors on sync. that might actually be a solution to the vague problems I have with 100hz Loewe tv in my vertical cab. worth a try.

So rather that soldering a 1k resistor on to each of the sync wires, could you just solder 1 2k resistor to pin 20 of the Scart and solder the 2 sync wires to the other end of the 2k resistor?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on April 08, 2012, 04:39:53 am
taking the voltage of pin 9 has several disadvantages. u need a card delivering 5 volt , a fully wired cable and after all u dont have 12 volt for correct av switch. so it features an external power supply or molex if u prefer taking 5-12 volt from ur pc .

im currently runnig a first test sample in my ok baby cab with the 25 inch sony tv . the auto power on tv-pc works great . guess i ll replace the second selfbuild cable in the other philips ok baby in the future . i kept the jpac for keyboard encoding , video and audio are running through the umsa device to the scart in of the tv chassis .

ps. chinese power supply , vga and scart cable is what usually everyone has laying around somewhere. u may combine vga and scart cable fitting to ur purpose , i took a 50 cm vga and a 1 m scart for example and kept the cables as short as possible. the idea was  to leave it to the customer to pick cable length and quality he prefers. a chinese external power supply may cost 3 dollar and can be found anywhere.
Title: Re: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter
Post by: SailorSat on April 08, 2012, 04:56:34 am
Great find my friend!, one thing that bugs the hell out of me though is it requires a external power supply. He could of drawn the power from pin 9 on the VGA side if the user was using an ATI card :-(

Any and i repeat, any, VGA card made after 1995 (and calling itself VESA compatible) is required to deliver the 5V on Pin9. I've encountered like 2 or 3 card till today that don't supply 5v. (ironically ATI Rage 2c :))
Sadly the output on the VGA is too low to power both the 5v-to-12v and the XOR gate.


I wonder what it does exactly ... And what it might do to the sync signals.
Nothing with the sync. Actually everything is straight through except for the DDC Pins (12 and 15 iirc) and supply (9 and 14).
The dongle provides a "valid" EDID signature required by GeForce 8 and newer nvidia cards.

ATI cards don't require a valid EDID
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 08, 2012, 06:03:26 am
ps. chinese power supply , vga and scart cable is what usually everyone has laying around somewhere. u may combine vga and scart cable fitting to ur purpose , i took a 50 cm vga and a 1 m scart for example and kept the cables as short as possible. the idea was  to leave it to the customer to pick cable length and quality he prefers. a chinese external power supply may cost 3 dollar and can be found anywhere.

VGA and 5v PSU might be cheap, but expect to pay $5 each for these unless you have spares lying around. Which I probably do, but then I'd have to eventually buy new ones to replace the spares I use. There is a cost to everything, even if it is hidden (BTW, in my day job I am an economist & policy analyst ...).

You would need the right type of plug for your PSU as well, although you could just solder the wires to the board (a somewhat barbaric approach).

It is the male-male Scart cable which would be the biggest add-on cost. I've never found them cheap, although there might be something reasonable on eBay I guess.

Edit: found a 3m male-male Scart cable for $4.59 + $4.59 postage so $9 for that.
Title: Re: UMSA - Ultimate SCART Adapter
Post by: Zebidee on April 08, 2012, 06:22:17 am
I wonder what it does exactly ... And what it might do to the sync signals.
Nothing with the sync. Actually everything is straight through except for the DDC Pins (12 and 15 iirc) and supply (9 and 14).
The dongle provides a "valid" EDID signature required by GeForce 8 and newer nvidia cards.

ATI cards don't require a valid EDID
[/quote]

Ahh, now that is interesting.

VGA pin 14 is vertical sync. But on looking at the pinout i see that it is also a "data clock", so I guess that it has something to do with the valid EDID signature?

Sailor, I wasn't aware that 5v availability on pin 9 was so prevalent. Such a shame that many VGA cables don't bother to include pin 9.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 08, 2012, 06:34:17 am
lettuce
So if i did bridge pins 20 and 16 then i dont need wire in Pin 9 on the VGA ti pin 16 on the scart?
Yeah, as you say.

Zebidee
what is bc548b again?
It's a transistor which merges the horizontal and vertical sync signals. It's in the schematic I linked before. This solution only works if both sync signals are negative.

That's why I put the "the" in there.
You're right, I misunderstood you. :)

When I used the powerstrip software, it always gave an option to adjust sync polarity regardless of the card.
That's right. The option is there but in some cases it just doesn't let change to negative, no matter how many times I push the "-" button.

Still, pretty good to be able to do it.
Thanks. It isn't that hard to build as it looks. It's good in cases where not even with PowerStrip the sync polarity changable is.
I tested it with my integrated GeForce 6150, changed both sync polarities to positive and there still was a nice picture on the TV.

I also tried it with a card GeForce 8600 GT, that even in PowerStrip didn't let change sync polarities. The circuit worked fine. There was a good image on the TV. It just had to be positioned.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 08, 2012, 06:58:08 am
taking the voltage of pin 9 has several disadvantages. u need a card delivering 5 volt , a fully wired cable and after all u dont have 12 volt for correct av switch. so it features an external power supply or molex if u prefer taking 5-12 volt from ur pc .

im currently runnig a first test sample in my ok baby cab with the 25 inch sony tv . the auto power on tv-pc works great . guess i ll replace the second selfbuild cable in the other philips ok baby in the future . i kept the jpac for keyboard encoding , video and audio are running through the umsa device to the scart in of the tv chassis .

ps. chinese power supply , vga and scart cable is what usually everyone has laying around somewhere. u may combine vga and scart cable fitting to ur purpose , i took a 50 cm vga and a 1 m scart for example and kept the cables as short as possible. the idea was  to leave it to the customer to pick cable length and quality he prefers. a chinese external power supply may cost 3 dollar and can be found anywhere.

So what advantages does this device have over say building your own VGA to Scart cable then?. It will obviously be cheaper to build you won cable?, as the extra parts your need to buy in order to use the UMSA (VGA 2 VGA and Scart 2 scart cable) you can make your won cable from?

A really neat idea would be if the creator of the UMSA could have an option so it has a brack attached to it like a GFX card, so you could actuall fit it inside your MAME PC!?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 08, 2012, 07:10:49 am
@lettuce if you bridge Scart 20 - 16 then you can bypass the 5v power altogether. trouble is, it only works for some tvs. it is quite easy to make this kind of cable so it is worth a try. I have several different types of vga-scart cables on hand to use when testing tvs.

So the attached revision diagram, could work then??
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 08, 2012, 07:14:19 am
So would the diagram attached be correct for a ATI card??
If you lead voltage from SCART 20 to SCART 16 (what I would not do), then why giving power from the VGA too?

Also whats the black ?wire that comes from VGA pin 10 and goes to pin 17 and bridges to pin 18 on the scart?
These are GND pins.

I noticed that a cable with the BC548B gives better picture than the one with the twisted sync wires.

Regards,
joecontra

Joe, i contacted you outside this forum before Christmas, and asked you to make me one of these VGA to Scart cables which you kindly did. But have noticed with my PC turned off, put still plugged into the wall socket that if i touch the metal socket part of the scart plug i get an mild electric shock!. Any ideas why this happens even though the PC isnt turned on?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: apfelanni on April 08, 2012, 07:14:30 am
mounting the pcb on a low profile bracket might be difficult , coz of the size of the scart plug. an alternative could be to screw it into a 3,5 or 5,25 front slot . this would make it easy to connect the 5-12 volt molex.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 08, 2012, 07:59:32 am
lettuce
Joe, i contacted you outside this forum
I looked at your e-mail adress and now I remember you. :)

i get an mild electric shock!. Any ideas why this happens even though the PC isnt turned on?
Even if the PC is turned off, there is some power in the system.

How's the cable working I built for you?


Paradroid
I think it might be time to retire from building VGA to SCART tables
I don't agree.  ;D
An EEPROM chip which provides EDID data and a sync merger XOR gate chip can be placed on a small PCB, and this small PCB can be placed in a nice little box, attached to the cable.

But I have to say, that PCB you linked is a good work, many will find it useful. :)

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on April 08, 2012, 08:46:26 am
BTW, in my day job I am an economist & policy analyst

Haha! The Canberra connection... ;)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on April 08, 2012, 08:52:52 am
So what advantages does this device have over say building your own VGA to Scart cable then?

The answer is in your question: the advantage is that you DON'T have to build your own cable. :) If you have more money than time this is the perfect solution. I'm pretty fastidious with my soldering but I'll admit that I could never make something as neat looking as that new gadget. Plus, it looks like this new solution "just works" as opposed to having to nut out schematics and make sure you don't make any mistakes during your cable build.

I reckon it looks really cool! :) Hopefully it'll open up this particular avenue of arcade gaming to people that are put off by the need to solder...
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 08, 2012, 10:20:41 am
lettuce
Joe, i contacted you outside this forum
I looked at your e-mail adress and now I remember you. :)

i get an mild electric shock!. Any ideas why this happens even though the PC isnt turned on?
Even if the PC is turned off, there is some power in the system.

How's the cable working I built for you?

So its getting the power from PIn 9 on the VGA then right? Yeah the system is turned of but still plugged into the wall socket. Yeah i guess theres always certain amount of power always going to the motherboard hence the status lights on the mobo are always on when the PC is powered down. So it is perfectly normal then?, i wanted to make sure it was some sort of short happening somewhere?

Yeah it does its job, or though it does pick up interference if i have the Sky Satalite box on near the cable (maybe its not shielded well enough, and the audio channels must have been soldered on to the scart plug the wrong may round. But i get a picture which is the main thing!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 08, 2012, 10:24:10 am
lettuce

So its getting the power from PIn 9 on the VGA then right?
Yes.

must have been soldered on to the scart plug the wrong may round
Don't you get sound or what's wrong?

But i get a picture which is the main thing!
Yeah!  ;D

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 08, 2012, 11:57:41 am
lettuce

So its getting the power from PIn 9 on the VGA then right?
Yes.

must have been soldered on to the scart plug the wrong may round
Don't you get sound or what's wrong?

But i get a picture which is the main thing!
Yeah!  ;D

Regards,
joecontra

Yeah i get sound, but the channels are flipped, so the right sound comes out of the left speaker, and the left sound out of the right speaker
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 10, 2012, 07:05:07 am
lettuce
Joe, i contacted you outside this forum
I looked at your e-mail adress and now I remember you. :)

i get an mild electric shock!. Any ideas why this happens even though the PC isnt turned on?
Even if the PC is turned off, there is some power in the system.

How's the cable working I built for you?


Paradroid
I think it might be time to retire from building VGA to SCART tables
I don't agree.  ;D
An EEPROM chip which provides EDID data and a sync merger XOR gate chip can be placed on a small PCB, and this small PCB can be placed in a nice little box, attached to the cable.

But I have to say, that PCB you linked is a good work, many will find it useful. :)

Regards,
joecontra

You can fit such a PCB onto a small triangle which will fit inside the Scart housing. I've seen it done before.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 10, 2012, 07:11:53 am
BTW, in my day job I am an economist & policy analyst

Haha! The Canberra connection... ;)

Oh, well connected!

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 10, 2012, 07:25:59 am
Zebidee
such a PCB onto a small triangle which will fit inside the Scart housing
I also saw that solution. As I remember there was a XOR gate on the PCB, but no EEPROM chip.

The solution I mentioned needs no big place:

(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd409/joecontra/xor_and_eeprom_thumb_2.png)
XOR and EEPROM

The dimensions of the box are 224248.
This can be made at home, no big deal.

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 10, 2012, 08:08:17 am
@joe

That is impressive work.

I reckon there is further scope for miniaturisation.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 10, 2012, 08:26:54 am
Zebidee
That is impressive work.
Thanks!  :)

I reckon there is further scope for miniaturisation.
You may be right, but I think there's no need because it fits into the little box and that's important for me.
And attached to the cable it doesn't ruin its look.

In the future maybe I will show a picture of it.

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 10, 2012, 01:04:58 pm
So would either of these methods work?......

(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/38/vga2eurover5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/vga2eurover5.jpg/) (http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/213/vga2eurover4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/vga2eurover4.jpg/)



Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 10, 2012, 01:45:48 pm
lettuce
So would either of these methods work?......
I recommend the first one.

You told, your cable works fine. Why do you need build a new one?

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 10, 2012, 02:22:22 pm
cos its not shielded correctly, im getting interferance
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 10, 2012, 02:30:04 pm
lettuce
cos its not shielded correctly, im getting interferance
When your new cable is done, then please let me know if the interferances are gone or not.

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 10, 2012, 02:33:51 pm
Ok will do. So either of the methods i posted above would work then?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 10, 2012, 02:35:44 pm
lettuce
So either of the methods i posted above would work then?
Yes but the first one is better.

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 10, 2012, 03:54:52 pm
lettuce
So either of the methods i posted above would work then?
Yes but the first one is better.

Regards,
joecontra

Thanks, so its fine to have the 2k resistor on the scart pin rather than have a 1k resistor on each of the sync wires??
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 10, 2012, 04:22:07 pm
lettuce
Thanks, so its fine to have the 2k resistor on the scart pin rather than have a 1k resistor on each of the sync wires??
It would be better 1k resistor in each sync line. I think 2k might be a bit too much.

The best option would be using a BC548B and 2 resistors 3,3K and 68 like this:
(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd409/joecontra/vgascart008alt2thumb.png)

But if you can't, the 2x1K solution is also right.

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 10, 2012, 08:19:07 pm
lettuce
Thanks, so its fine to have the 2k resistor on the scart pin rather than have a 1k resistor on each of the sync wires??
It would be better 1k resistor in each sync line. I think 2k might be a bit too much.

The best option would be using a BC548B and 2 resistors 3,3K and 68 like this:
(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd409/joecontra/vgascart008alt2thumb.png)

But if you can't, the 2x1K solution is also right.

Regards,
joecontra

So the BC548B circuit can fit inside the actually scart plug housing if soldered on to vero board?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on April 11, 2012, 12:13:06 am
So the BC548B circuit can fit inside the actually scart plug housing if soldered on to vero board?

For sure! Take a look here (http://scarthunter.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/vga-to-scart-guide-preview.html). :)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 11, 2012, 06:35:16 am
lettuce
So the BC548B circuit can fit inside the actually scart plug housing if soldered on to vero board?
Yes, it does. I built a lot of cable that way and I can say that this circuit can be nicely placed into the SCART housing.

Paradroid
For sure! Take a look here.
Thanks, this is a good example.

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 11, 2012, 06:42:01 am
So the BC548B circuit can fit inside the actually scart plug housing if soldered on to vero board?

For sure! Take a look here (http://scarthunter.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/vga-to-scart-guide-preview.html). :)

Ah good pics!!

The way im going to do the audio plug is to have it coming from the VGA end rather than the scart end, that way you wouldnt have a audio cable running along the scart cable aswell. So ill leave the pins 6,4 and 2 soldered to the scart lead and then solder the audio wires to the other end of the scart cable which will be inside the VGA house....i think it will make it look alot neater
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on April 11, 2012, 06:55:20 am
The way im going to do the audio plug is to have it coming from the VGA end rather than the scart end, that way you wouldnt have a audio cable running along the scart cable aswell.

Yep. I've made cables that way before. The problem is that it's a lot more work to have to solder the SCART and VGA ends separately. Plus, it's cheaper when you can cut a VGA cable off a disused computer monitor and use that instead of finding or buying a fully loaded SCART cable. Theoretically, the audio will be better shielded with a separate cable.

I do agree that the single cable approach looks neater though. :)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 11, 2012, 08:23:34 am
Yeah i had thought about using a VGA cable to hack rather than a scart cable. But 99.9% of VGA cables are sealed units, how would you tell which wire on the hacked end was connected up to what pin on the VGA plug?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on April 11, 2012, 08:31:11 am
lettuce
how would you tell which wire on the hacked end was connected up to what pin on the VGA plug?
I built cable even that way. You got to measure which wire belongs to which pin.
It's not that hard.

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on April 11, 2012, 08:58:45 am
Yeah i had thought about using a VGA cable to hack rather than a scart cable. But 99.9% of VGA cables are sealed units, how would you tell which wire on the hacked end was connected up to what pin on the VGA plug?

You need to use a multimeter on diode setting, which looks something like this:    ->|-
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 13, 2012, 09:45:32 am
Anyone have an info on the, hantarex CT EQ/3 28" monitor, have the oppotunity to grab a hardly used one. Just wanted to know what refresh rates, resolution these support. Plus if the image can be altered via pots at all?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on April 13, 2012, 10:04:53 pm
@lettuce: Post your question in the main monitor forum. More eyes will see it there. I'm sure the image can be altered by pots. Most arcade chassis have these as opposed to a menu system navigated using an OSD.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: lettuce on April 17, 2012, 04:40:50 pm
@lettuce: Post your question in the main monitor forum. More eyes will see it there. I'm sure the image can be altered by pots. Most arcade chassis have these as opposed to a menu system navigated using an OSD.

good idea
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Lewer on September 07, 2012, 07:56:26 am
Hello all, First time posting, long time lurking!

This thread has some really great Info, Ive learned a great deal. Thanks!

Im getting the bits together to make a vga/scart following the schematic attached.

Could anyone tell me the 'values' of the resistors used?
I get that 2 x 1k = 2 x 1000 ohm, and the 100 - is a 1 x 100 ohm but what are their wattages?
Would 0.6 Watt resistors be suitable?

Also, just to clarify, VGA pins 5 & 10 are unused so are grounded at SCART pins 17 & 18.
So,
     VGA                  SCART
       5       <---->       18
      10      <---->       17
and then bridge SCART pins 17 & 18?

Thanks,
Lewer.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on September 17, 2012, 04:06:38 am
Would 0.6 Watt resistors be suitable?
Yes, they're fine. I use'em too.

VGA pins 5 & 10 are unused so are grounded at SCART pins 17 & 18[...]and then bridge SCART pins 17 & 18?
VGA pin 5 doesn't need to be connected at all. SCART pin 17 can be left also unconnected. You just connect VGA10 and SCART18 together and that's it.

Sorry for late reply I didn't get any email notifications about new messages.

I recommend you my site where you can read useful articles about this stuff:
https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/ (https://sites.google.com/site/joecontrae/)

If someone needs a VGA to SCART lead or has problems with the graphics cards settings just write me a personal message or connect me through my site.

Regards,
joecontra

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: adder on September 17, 2012, 10:12:16 am
Quote from: joecontra
I recommend you my site where you can read useful articles about this stuff...

i just checked out your site and the information looks superb, thanks for that (http://thefitchick.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/thumbs-up-smiley.gif)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on September 19, 2012, 12:33:52 pm
i just checked out your site and the information looks superb, thanks for that (http://thefitchick.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/thumbs-up-smiley.gif)
I'm glad that you found it useful.  :)
Feel free to share the URL.  ;D

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on October 06, 2012, 04:53:05 am
I've got a VGA to SCART lead 3 m with audio for sale.
If someone needs it, contact me.


Sold already.

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on May 27, 2013, 07:28:00 am
Hi!

Recently I've got some free time, so I could build some VGA to SCART leads if requested.
If someone needs my work just feel free to let me know.  :)

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: arcadeswede on June 12, 2013, 06:35:55 am
Hi everyone! Got a little color problem!
I followed the instructions in this thread and managed to make a vga to SCART-cable. However, the colors on my CRT seems washed out. The blue color isn't very blue it's more greyish and the red is also kinda faded.

Here's the pic:
(http://s8.postimg.org/ac7qp11ud/bild.jpg)

Do I need some kind of resistors on the RGB pins? I don't know anything about these things, I'm just guessing.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: joecontra on June 12, 2013, 07:54:09 am
Alright!

What schematic did U use and what cable has been yours built of?
Maybe it's up to the TV set, maybe it's very old (just guessing).

Does the TV set give better colors in case of signal from other RGB source?

Regards,
joecontra
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 12, 2013, 09:46:42 am
Resistors on the RGB lines would only make the colours less bright.

Sounds like an issue with your TV being a bit old and tired, so check it with another input source.

A rather less likely possibility is that your video card RGB outputs are relatively low. In that case you could try a video amplifier (ultimate sells them at a reasonable price), but a fair bit of hassle involved with hooking it up. Better to test with another TV first.

Cheers, Zeb
Title: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: arcadeswede on June 12, 2013, 01:07:22 pm
Must be the videocard then because I've tested my CRT with another RGB source and it worked. Bummer! Thx for the answer guys!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Rigby on June 12, 2013, 01:10:40 pm
well, PC VGA ports typically only output 1V of signal, some monitors like 5V and don't amplify it themselves.  I don't know what voltage SCART expects, but given that it's not a protocol or signalling standard, it seems that it would depend on the TV you're hooking up to.  Amp it up to 5V and I think you'll have an amazing picture.
Title: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: arcadeswede on June 12, 2013, 11:47:11 pm
You mean amping the pins red, blue and green?
How? Any tips?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on June 13, 2013, 01:31:39 am
well, PC VGA ports typically only output 1V of signal, some monitors like 5V and don't amplify it themselves.  I don't know what voltage SCART expects, but given that it's not a protocol or signalling standard, it seems that it would depend on the TV you're hooking up to.  Amp it up to 5V and I think you'll have an amazing picture.

Rigby, while what you say about arcade monitors requiring higher voltage on RGB is true, the RGB TTL standard for TVs is only 1v. Should be no need to amplify the signal from a video card to a TV. I've done VGA/SCART to literally dozens of TVs and never seen an exception to this.

If one does need a video amp, Ultimarc sell the at reasonable prices. But it is likely not necessary. Better to check with another TV and another video input source first.

You could use a multimeter to check the voltage on the RGB signals but this is tricky as is must be done while the system is operating and requires access to exposed RGB signal wires while everything is turned on, in-circuit and working. I did this before with a JPAC from Ultimarc (which has an on-board video amp) hooked up to a TV and was surprised to find only 2-3v on RGB. In this case I has the opposite problem - the voltage was too high for the TTL TV standard 1v and the picture was "blooming" as the colours were too bright.

So I suggest testing the RGB voltage levels while everything is in circuit and turned on. Be aware that the RGB voltages will vary depending upon what is happening with the video signal, but should peak at around 1v.
Title: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: arcadeswede on June 13, 2013, 03:05:17 am
Ok! No problem, I can check that with a multimeter. In my case, I should have a low voltage value, right? Under 1V maybe?
That's may be the reason why my colors are weak.

If the RGB signals ends up being at 1V I don't know what to do next.

FYI: I have a 12V source connected to the SCART plug to make my CRT TV select the SCART input when turned on.
Is this something I could use for amping the RGB signals if they're low?

I also don't have any resistors och anything in my SCART plug. Only wires connected to pins. Good or bad? Is there any resistors you really should have that I've missed?
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: NightSprinter on September 14, 2013, 01:56:26 pm
Bit of a curiosity: I know there were some RCA Dimensia sets that had an "EIA MULTIPORT" socket, and earlier revisions only supported TTL signals.  What about the port on later models that also had an s-video socket?  I am curious about what type of RGB (if at all) was supported by the later CTC140 chassis.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Locke141 on June 15, 2015, 04:37:07 pm
Figured out I can buy SCART CRT TV's her in Tanzania for around $40 US for a 19 inch, with out haggling. As an American this is a rare opportunity. As a plus, we get a shipment back to the US when we move home as part of my wife benefits.

I'm tempted to pick up a larger TV as well as it is unlikely I'll have the opportunity to buy a SCART TV once I'm back in the states. Now my questions is what should I be aware of when buying one?   
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Paradroid on June 15, 2015, 07:02:57 pm
Now my questions is what should I be aware of when buying one?

Nothing in particular. As long as the TV supports RGB input via SCART (I have seen some that only accept S-Video via SCART) and also NTSC and PAL (I have only seen one PAL only SCART TV out of the 100+ I have come across in my travels) so you've got the 50 to 60 Hz range covered.

I guess the other consideration is whether you want picture adjustments via a Service Menu or internal trimpots. Both have their pros and cons.

Tanzania... I never knew they had SCART there! My 3 months in Berlin where heaven for SCART hunting but I didn't have enough money left to ship any back home... :(

Good luck!
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: adder on June 15, 2015, 07:43:19 pm
Quote from: Locke141
Now my questions is what should I be aware of when buying one?

try to get one which has the original remote control included, as you may need to use it to get into the service menu to make adjustments (or try to ensure the remote control you require is available on ebay)
try to get a decent brand tv:  eg.  sony, JVC and panasonic are all excellent brands
getting a decent/well known brand tv means you are more likely to be able to find its service manual online, which will detail things like the service menu (how to access it) and the possible adjustments you can make (eg. horizontal size/position, vertical size/position, etc)
and if possible try to avoid a tv on its 'last legs' .. of course that's not always easy though, as many old school CRT TV's are now around 20 years old
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Locke141 on June 16, 2015, 03:38:10 pm

Tanzania... I never knew they had SCART there! My 3 months in Berlin where heaven for SCART hunting but I didn't have enough money left to ship any back home... :(

Good luck!

Yea SCART is not an official standard here but so many TV have be brought over by expats and I would imagine that the worlds back stock of crt TV's got shipped here. I don't think there is much hope of finding the original remote. How about a universal replacement remote?



and if possible try to avoid a tv on its 'last legs' .. of course that's not always easy though, as many old school CRT TV's are now around 20 years old

Believe it or not, you can still buy new CRT TV's here. They don't have SCART and they don't always have the best pic or cooler but there are apparently still manufacturers.   
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Locke141 on June 18, 2015, 10:42:26 am
I went and looked at a few TV's today. Some of the 14 inch ones were in really good shape. All the 21 inch ones with SCART at this shop were all flat glass and did not have the best images. 

I took down the info on one seem to have a particularly good image a Philips 14pt6107/05d. I found the manual (http://www.manualslib.com/manual/173200/Philips-15pt6807i-05.html#manual) but it does not say any thing about the service menu or wether or not it supports RGB over SCART. I can get to the Picture settings with out a remote. What should I do? Is there a web site that will tell me how to get in to the service menu?

Edit:Found this I'll test it tomarrow.
Quote
Service Menu Code For Philips TV:

There are many codes available for accessing service menu in various Philips TV models. You can try following codes one by one until you get access to service menu:

0 + 6 + 2 + 5 + 9 + 6 + Menu/Info/Status
0 + 6 + 2 + 5 + 9 + 7 + Menu/Info/Status
0 + 6 + 1 + 5 + 9 + 6 + Menu
0 + 6 + 1 + 5 + 9 + 7 + Menu
1 + 6 + 2 + 5 + 9 + 6 + Menu/Status
1 + 2 + 3 + 6 + 5 + 4

If you have a different brand TV set such as Panasonic, Toshiba, Videocon, Onida, Sansui, Sharp, Akai, etc, feel free to ask us for the secret code to access its service menu...



 Also they have replacement remote that are specific to each brand.
I'm thinking of making a VGA to SCART cable and just testing each TV. 

http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?slg=en&scy=gb&ctn=14PT6107/05 (http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?slg=en&scy=gb&ctn=14PT6107/05)

It seems that most of the Philips CRT's here have SCART.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Locke141 on June 20, 2015, 10:57:19 am
I'm a little confused. Is the return for each color the shielding around that color? I tried to test with my multimeter but all shielding goes to ground so its not posable to confirm with a multimeter.

Also in my VGA cable Red signal is a red wire, Blue signal is a blue wire, Green signal is white, and one sync is green the other is white. :angry: That was needlessly. confusion.   

Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: sqwirral on August 11, 2015, 02:03:10 pm
Does anybody know what I've done wrong here?

(http://i.imgur.com/hN4D1jBl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/hN4D1jB)

This is a Jamma PCB going to the RGB scart input on my TV. The board output is fine when going into a scaler/line-doubler thing I've got. The TV is fine when plugging in any RGB game consoles. I get the same effect on another spare CRT too.

It's not really a black and white image, it's almost totally black with only the outlines of sprites etc visible, these pics were taken with brightness wacked up full.

The Jamma harness has a plug with R,G,B,GND,SYNC wires. Those are going to the appropriate pins on the scart plug, as shown in the OP. The only difference is I'm using one GND wire daisy chained to all the returns, instead of lots of seperate grounds... is this what's causing the problem? All the grounds are joined together on the board anyway so I don't see how it would make a difference.

I've added +5V to the blanking pin 16, this made no difference good or bad. I added a 100 Ohm resistor to this wire, still no change. I added 150 Ohm resistors to the RGB wires, obviously this doesn't help either. I haven't sent any voltage to pin 8 since I can just use the remote control to switch to the scart channel for now.

(My theory was if I can get this simple board working then I'd tackle the whole vga soft-15khz thing next...)
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: sqwirral on August 12, 2015, 09:41:38 am
Some progress from the post above:

(http://i.imgur.com/EtSYSlLl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/EtSYSlL)

It's now working on my tiny spare CRT. I removed the resistors from the RGB wires, and removed the resistor from the blanking pin wire and just bridged it to the sync pin (as Zebidee suggests on page 1) instead of using the +5V from my PSU. Aside from some overscan on the right, the picture is absolutely perfect, even without those resistors the RGB isn't too bright.

Problem is, my main CRT is still showing exactly the same mostly-black screen as in the previous post. No difference. Any ideas?

Here are my wires from PCB to scart:
R -> pin 15
G -> pin 11
B -> pin 7
S -> pins 20, 16
GND -> pins 5, 9, 13, 18


Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Zebidee on August 15, 2015, 08:08:53 pm
sqwirral:

I suggest you try combining all your ground wires together ("daisy chain") and hook them up to pin 18. Although I guess that is what you had before.

We don't know if all those grounds (5,9,13 for RGB) are actually connected on that TV. Most commercial SCART cables I've pulled apart just combine the grounds. Ground on pin 18 should be good.

Keep in mind that you may need different SCART cables to accommodate different TVs, as not all SCART TVs are the same. For example, some TV's work better with (PSU +5v + resistor) to pin 16. Some work better if you just bridge 16 to 20. So I made both kinds of cables. You might be better off keeping your cable that works for your "spare" TV and making a new one for your "main" TV.

Regarding your RGB brightness and JAMMA: if you are connecting jamma boards, diffrerent PCBs may have quite different RGB output levels. So the nice picture you get with "Taito Cup Finals" might be different (e.g. colour too bright) with another JAMMA PCB! In such a situation resistors on RGB might help. Something to keep in mind as you try other boards.



Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: sqwirral on August 24, 2015, 12:59:07 pm
Thanks for the reply Zeb.
I was waiting until I had some more meaningful info before posting again, but I appear to have got sidetracked onto other things so I'll just say thanks and attack this TV again in... probably about a year knowing me
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: steocullen91 on August 04, 2017, 06:07:00 pm
I know this thread is old but I'm interested in doing this. I have a CRT and 2 other TV's here I have with SCART connectors. I have a spare VGA cable and a SCART lead. Can I just make it like page one or do I need resistors? The only resistors I have here at the minute are 33ohm.
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: Dragon89o on April 05, 2018, 03:25:15 pm
Informative thread. +1
Title: Re: How to use SCART for our hobby
Post by: ckong on May 30, 2018, 04:24:13 pm
 Never mind

:cheers: