Monitor or TV, Wich is for me?

[bludytiger]

I am planing out my MAME cabinet and have decided I should get my Monitor or TV first so I can build my cabinet around it. I have been doing a lot of research online and on the forums here about what will work better for me but I just seem to get mixed answers. So I decided to ask here to see what you all think would work best for what I want.

I will be playing a variety of games from a variety of time periods from the very fist classics to tames in the late 90's or beyond.

I am not really taking cost into consideration right now because I should be able to afford what I want. Should I get an official arcade monitor? I know a guy with cabinets that should be able to supply one to me at good cost. What are the downsides or limitations I will have? What kind of hardware will I need for my PC to run it?

Or will a TV work better for me? And if so, should I bother with component or should I just stick with S-Video? What kind of hardware will the PC need for this? I have an old 4MB ATI Rage with composite and S-Video out right now. Does MAME actually use the video card or does it basically pass the video through the output?

I am using the monitor/TV horizontally.

[bludytiger]

I forgot to also mention that I will be running other emulators on the cabinet as well such as those for Atari 2600, NES, and SNES.

[IG-88]

You can probably get about as many different answers on this question as there is people on this forum. I've come to find that it's all a matter of what you consider a good enough picture for you.

An arcade monitor is what you want if you are looking for that "original" game look but it comes at the expense of $$ and configuration. And with you wanting to run all those different types of emu's and games it's gonna take some time to do.

A TV is nice for the consoles, seeings as thats what they were built for.

As for s-vid or component. It's again a matter of what YOU like. I for one like composite and even have used coax on a real old TV. Here is another thread on that:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=76810.0

PC monitors are also a fav of mine for the ease of setup and the crisp clear pic that I can get.

Here is another good place to start on this topic:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Video

Good luck, and welcome to the insanity 

[bludytiger]

Computer monitor is almost completely out of the question because finding one that is large enough to please me is going to be hard.

Thinking about it over and over, I think I might go with the TV, especially after seeing the quality this old video card S-Video out gave me in DOS. I remember hooking up my old Voodoo Rush to a TV before by composite and the quality was horrible unless I was playing a game. So thats why I was a bit worried about the quality.

The TV will give me better results with the other emulators I'm assuming like you said, and I do know a guy that deals in damaged electronics. He sells discount TVs that will have marks on them from shipping or cracks and whatnot at a fraction of the price. Maybe he'll have a TV for me with a broken case, lol.

I am really sticky about quality though, and from what I hear, if you go with component, you wont go back to S-Video because its so much better. So I need to get a component out video card. New computer shop that deals in used stuff for cheap will probably supply me with that, no more then $30. And to find a TV that has component and isn't flat screen...

[IG-88]

Thats a good idea about the discount TV's. Keep us posted on what you come up with.

[bludytiger]

OMG, I'm driving my brother nuts. Just after I posted that, I went over to his house to help him move some stuff. I had to carry a TV downstairs. It was a 27" with component video, and it wasn't flat screen!

I don't think he'll sell it to me, but at least I know they're out there. Hopefully I can talk to my friend at his store tomorrow and see what he can get me.

[Ummon]

What kind of component out video card are you talking about? I thought you had to use a vga-component dongle.

[ivwshane]

I decided to go with a tv setup but I decided to get an hdtv in hopes that windows or other games that take advantage of higher resolutions would look better.

It's a flat screen (I think curved vs flat is a personal choice) and I have my computer hooked up to via hdmi.

If you would like I could post some pics to see if it's something worth looking into.

[bludytiger]

I am looking at video cards now. I'm not sure how they do component out, I just know some can do it. I herd that you need to use an adapter for DVI or you need 7 pin S-Video with an adapter.

I bought a used card today from a computer shop. The guy must have misunderstood me when I asked for component. I think he thought I said composite, because this one definitely doesn't do it.

[Leif]

Why not have both... a TV and a Computer Monitor.

Look up a Gateway Destination monitor... they come in 27, 31, & 33 inch sizes.  If I had to do it all over again that's what I'd do.  I can find them on craigslist used for under a 100 bucks all day long.

[StephenH]

If you can afford it, an Arcade Monitor will give you the best picture but it is often limited in resolution and therefore using it for PC Applications will be limited in fucntionality because of this.  Console Emulators will be fine, though (they run at low res).    You will need for this a video card that can output at 15Khz (CGA) resolution such as Ultimarc's ArcadeVGA or a software tool like Soft15Khz. 

A TV will give you a bit lower quality picture but it can be OK if you just run arcade type raster games.  TVs can made small text hard to read, however larger text and most graphics do fine.  When using a TV, the input is what matters.   Using SCART RGB (European Standard) will give you an authentic arcade picture.   TV output using component video is usually very good.   S-Video is acceptable in many cases, too.  Using composite or RF Modulation usually results in a very low picture quality.     Using an HDTV may or may not improve quality as they have to scale low res games to higher resolution, and may be a different aspect ratio (16:9 instead of 4:3).

Using a PC Monitor will be easiest to setup due to easy connectivity and no 15Khz Hassles.   However, they will not give you an arcade real picture due to smaller dot pitch and scaling low res games to higher resolutions.  You may want to consider a PC Monitor if you want to play higher res PC games on your cabinet or vector games on it. 

There are also some monitors that do multiple resolutions, allowing both arcade resolutions and allow you to run windows natively up to 640x480, or in some models 800x600 or even 1024x768.   Some of these include  the Betson Multi-Sync, Billabs BL2C0P, Nieman Tri-Sync, and others.    These are expensive but have the benefit of running at multiple resolutions.   You will still need a 15Khz capable video card to run at Arcade Resolutions, though. 

[bludytiger]

Thank you for the information everyone. I think I'm still going to go with a TV using component. I don't have the TV yet, but if I can't find what I'm looking for, I'll just buy my brother a new TV and take his, since he's got exactly what I want.

Right now I'm looking at video cards. Obviously I need one that supports component out in one form or another.

Does the card need to have component out on it, or are the ones that use adapters to output component still give true component picture?

And does the video card need anything else special, or does MAME not take advantage of video cards, and all I need is component out?

[bludytiger]

It seems that from what I hear, the ATI Radeons are the best way to go. I'm an NVIDIA guy myself, but this time I guess I'll just have to suck it up and go with the ATI and a YPrPb component adapter.

I remember seeing somewhere before that the ATI Radeon 9550 was suggested to use, but the adapter will work with a Radeon as low as 8500. Will the 8500 work just as well as the 9550 since the emulator doesn't seem to use the video card all too much? Or should I go with the 9550? I'm asking because the price for a 8500 is about half as much as the 9550 on ebay, not sure what my local computer guy has or can get me yet though.

Also, does anyone know if using the YPrPb component adapter gives true component quality, or is it just a solution to hook it up to component in devices?

[Ummon]

Why not have both... a TV and a Computer Monitor.

Look up a Gateway Destination monitor... they come in 27, 31, & 33 inch sizes.  If I had to do it all over again that's what I'd do.  I can find them on craigslist used for under a 100 bucks all day long.

Seeing as these only do VGA and SVGA, I wouldn't recommend it. They can't go low enough to do native 15khz resolutions, nor high enough to do doubled refresh native resolutions.

It seems that from what I hear, the ATI Radeons are the best way to go. I'm an NVIDIA guy myself, but this time I guess I'll just have to suck it up and go with the ATI and a YPrPb component adapter.

I remember seeing somewhere before that the ATI Radeon 9550 was suggested to use, but the adapter will work with a Radeon as low as 8500. Will the 8500 work just as well as the 9550 since the emulator doesn't seem to use the video card all too much? Or should I go with the 9550? I'm asking because the price for a 8500 is about half as much as the 9550 on ebay, not sure what my local computer guy has or can get me yet though.

Also, does anyone know if using the YPrPb component adapter gives true component quality, or is it just a solution to hook it up to component in devices?

You just need to search and read through some of the threads on this. It's pretty self-explanatory. As for cards, I just got a NIB radeon x1600 XL on ebay for $30 shipping included.

[ahofle]

An arcade monitor is what you want if you are looking for that "original" game look but it comes at the expense of $$ and configuration.

I just wanted to chime in and say that I disagree with the configuration part of this statement.  I spent way more configuration time trying to get my TV to look right than my arcade monitor.  There really isn't any configuration at all if you have an ArcadeVGA.  90% of the time, MAME picks the correct resolution, and if it doesn't all you have to do is select a res.  The only downside to an arcade monitor IMO is the price.  If money is not a limiting factor for you, I would not even consider using a TV.

[IG-88]

Thats cool. I'm glad that your setup went smooth. I for one had absolutely a terrible time getting my setup working. And I have seen lots of others chime in on the forums with problems too. It seems to me that more people have probs with arcade monitors than with TV's but it just an opinion after all......

[ahofle]

Just curious, what things did you have to configure for the arcade monitor?  The only two things I can remember having to do were setting ddraw=1 and hwstretch=0 in MAME.

[IG-88]

If I remember correctly (4-5 yrs ago) it was an convergence issue, I actually had to give it to a buddy of mine to fix after I had completely screwed it up. It put a bad taste in my mouth for them ever since 

[bludytiger]

I FOUND MY TV!!!

I am so happy. I found exactly what I was looking for. It's not flat screen, is has component input, and it powers back on after power loss!

I get to pick it up next Sunday. $90

http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-electronics-JVC-27-TV-W0QQAdIdZ40749110