are 39 in 1 boards illegal to have on location ?

[rlemmon]

Heres a question for you guys. Are the 39 or 60 in one jamma boards illegal to use in a public location . I have heard people say they are and they aren't.

Thanks

[Fozzy The Bear]

Heres a question for you guys. Are the 39 or 60 in one jamma boards illegal to use in a public location . I have heard people say they are and they aren't.

They are illegal.... PERIOD....

They contain emulation code derived from MAME... They contain unlicenced ROMs... They are produced in countries where copyright laws do not exist or are completely ineffective, and yes you can be prosecuted for using them in a commercial application.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[rlemmon]

Thanks fozzy     Im sort of surprised that there illegal. I have seen alot of them on ebay and websites that sell regular arcade games.

[spacies]

And exactly who is going to prosecute us?

[SavannahLion]

And exactly who is going to prosecute us?

Still doesn't mean you should be a jerk about it.

[spacies]

I am not being a jerk about anything.

The x in 1 boards are out there. Everyone knows it. The MAMEdevs, the frontend owners, the original companies that made the games (if they are still going), everyone!

Every time a thread pops up someone screams you will be prosecuted for owning one. I want to know who is going to do it?

Are the FBI going to bust my door down?
Are the CIA or SIS going to follow me around to gather intelligence?
Am I going to wake to tear gas and rifles? 
Are drug dealers going to start selling x in 1 boards on street corners? (mental image, man in trench coat opens it quickly to show all the boards inside his jacket, lol)

Come on, seriously.
Simple question deserves a simple answer.

Who?

[spacies]

Oh, and Fozzy, you say they are illegal but you own one, lol.

Someones gonna come-a knocking.     

Yes they probably are but who is going to do anything about it?
Same as all the roms on yours/mine/everyone else's MAME machine.
Oh, wait, I don't have a MAME machine. 

[leapinlew]

 

[Daniel B.]

Oh, and Fozzy, you say they are illegal but you own one, lol.

Someones gonna come-a knocking.     

Yes they probably are but who is going to do anything about it?
Same as all the roms on yours/mine/everyone else's MAME machine.
Oh, wait, I don't have a MAME machine. 

I thought the question was, "are 39 in 1 boards illegal to have on LOCATION?"  "location" being, out in the public eye, making money. If that machine isn't licensed by the state (and I wouldn't think it will be with a x in 1 or mame cab) You can, and will be fined, if not sued for using them. IN PUBLIC, FOR CASH GAIN.

Obviously nobody gives a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- what you do at your house - this is about making money.


EDIT : I was a little angry and my comment was harsh. Sorry.

[DaveMMR]

I don't know why there's debate about the original question, which was about their legality in a public location.  The answer is "yes".  It wasn't "will I get caught?", "is it moral?" or anything else like that. 

That being said, I have seen some in public. It's possible for it to be there for it's entire life without getting a fine.  It's also possible for you to get in trouble for it.  The risk is yours.  If some authority on such matters were to bust you for it, pointing to the arguments on these boards will do little to dissuade him or her from handing down monetary punishment.  Just so you know...

[leapinlew]

I don't know why there's debate about this.   The original question was about their legality in a public location.  The answer is "yes".  It wasn't "will I get caught?", "is it moral?" or anything else like that. 

 

[Jdurg]

Exactly.  All it takes is for someone running one of these illegal boards to piss off the wrong person and that person can bring the authorities down on them.  If they want to bust you for something but they don't have the evidence they need, they could always nab you for the illegal arcade board.

Whether they will do that or not isn't the debate here.  It's whether it is illegal or not to run one of these boards for profit. 

The same discussion and argument can be made for using illegal drugs.  Cops know certain people who do it all the time, and in some cases they even watch people doing it and don't do a thing about it.  The moment they decide that they want to get "even" with someone for something, or they are just in a bad mood, those people who thought they could get away with it wind up under arrest.

[leapinlew]

Exactly.  All it takes is for someone running one of these illegal boards to piss off the wrong person and that person can bring the authorities down on them.  If they want to bust you for something but they don't have the evidence they need, they could always nab you for the illegal arcade board.

Whether they will do that or not isn't the debate here.  It's whether it is illegal or not to run one of these boards for profit. 

The same discussion and argument can be made for using illegal drugs.  Cops know certain people who do it all the time, and in some cases they even watch people doing it and don't do a thing about it.  The moment they decide that they want to get "even" with someone for something, or they are just in a bad mood, those people who thought they could get away with it wind up under arrest.

I know what your saying, but your examples are a little off.

What authorities would someone call? I mean, we all know it's illegal, but what spacie is saying - who's going to make the bust? Illegal drugs, sure cops. Illegal 48-n-1 at the laundramat? Now what?

[Jdurg]

Depending on the state, it could be the state's Attorney General who would shut it down and issue fines in order to fatten the state's wallet.

[MaximRecoil]

I know what your saying, but your examples are a little off.

What authorities would someone call? I mean, we all know it's illegal, but what spacie is saying - who's going to make the bust? Illegal drugs, sure cops. Illegal 48-n-1 at the laundramat? Now what?

No one is going to bust you. The owner of the copyright(s) can sue you and the court can determine if you violated the copyright(s) or not, and if so, what the penalty is.

The cops can't determine whether you violated the copyright(s) or not, nor to what extent the copyright(s) has/have been violated. Imagine the blank and confused stare you would get from the average cop if you went down to the station with a stack of arcade boardsets and asked him which of them were originals and which of them were bootlegs.

[Daniel B.]

Again, who gives a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- who makes the bust. The question is if this is legal. It is not legal. I don't know who will bust you, or if you will get busted...it's illegal, so you can get busted.

I'm sure we all do illegal things all the time and not get busted, but I certainly don't advertise it and make money off of said illegal practices.

[leapinlew]

Again, who gives a ---Cleveland steamer--- who makes the bust. The question is if this is legal. It is not legal. I don't know who will bust you, or if you will get busted...it's illegal, so you can get busted.

I'm sure we all do illegal things all the time and not get busted, but I certainly don't advertise it and make money off of said illegal practices.

ok, you said what you want to say. We all heard you.

In my opinion, this isn't like selling drugs or speeding, this is more akin to ripping a DVD you already own to place on a computer hard drive. Both are illegal.

So if it's illegal, but not enforced - it becomes an ethics issue?

[MaximRecoil]

Again, who gives a ---Cleveland steamer--- who makes the bust. The question is if this is legal. It is not legal. I don't know who will bust you, or if you will get busted...it's illegal, so you can get busted.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Do you think anyone would be discussing "who makes the bust" if they didn't first acknowledge that it was indeed, illegal?

Discussions tend to branch out.

[leapinlew]

The sad thing is I think our country is rapidly turning into a police state, but we've already got people apparently intelligent enough to use a computer that already think we've got Arcade Gestapo running around.   

BAD JIM BAD! 

[Fozzy The Bear]

I am not being a jerk about anything.
The x in 1 boards are out there. Everyone knows it. The MAMEdevs, the frontend owners, the original companies that made the games (if they are still going), everyone!
Every time a thread pops up someone screams you will be prosecuted for owning one. I want to know who is going to do it?

You most certainly are being a jerk....... I said that you can be prosecuted for using one in a commercial application.

I never said that anybody was going to come knocking on your door and arrest you for owning one.  It'd be a waste of time and effort and money to go after a single individual.

But if you run a bar and put one in there and charge people for the privilage of playing it, then don't come crying when you're facing million dollar law suits and the loss of your trading licences.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Jdurg]

I never said that anybody was going to come knocking on your door and arrest you for owning one.  It'd be a waste of time and effort and money to go after a single individual.

That truly is the key point.  The reason why you don't see people getting their doors busted down is because the amount of effort and money required to bust people for using these illegal boards just simply is not worth it.  The thing is, if you are under investigation for something completely different, just for shits and giggles they might decide to fine your or tack on other troubles for you because you are running that illegal board.  That's it really.

[AndyWarne]

Every time a thread pops up someone screams you will be prosecuted for owning one. I want to know who is going to do it?

One answer to this is Nintendo of America will. They have successfully prosecuted and fined people for selling and coin-operating multi-game boards with Donkey Kong or other Nintendo games. They won't go after someone using one at home but the OP mentioned siting one which implies coin-operation and they will act on this if they find out.
They also have Ebay listings removed which mention these boards if they list any Nintendo games.

[shardian]

In the real world, the worst that would happen is that your game would be confiscated and you'd get a mild slap on the wrist fine. The store runner wouldn't get anything since it would be the operator that maintains the game and the space is "rented" to them. I have seen a multicades on site with a 48-1 board in it. It was in a chain restaurant and had an OP sticker on it.

[DaveMMR]

Kind of similar and comparable: I used to work at a used record store that would mix obvious boot-legged CDs in with standard releases (this was back before internet downloading and CD burners were commonplace).  They put them in with the used copies so if anything ever happened, they can say they didn't know it was an illegal release when it was traded-off to them.  They rationalized it further by admitting their chances of getting caught were slim anyway. 

Of course, they got busted.  How?  I don't know.  But the MIAA has never been know for being lax about such things.   

The store is still in operation but they did get hit hard, financially, for dabbling in bootlegs.

Now is it the same as running a 39-in-1 board on location?  Probably not.  But it shows that claiming ignorance or citing invincibility are never wise financial decisions to make.  Don't expect to fall back on those if you plop one in a bar. 

[FrizzleFried]

One answer to this is Nintendo of America will. They have successfully prosecuted and fined people for selling and coin-operating multi-game boards with Donkey Kong or other Nintendo games. They won't go after someone using one at home but the OP mentioned siting one which implies coin-operation and they will act on this if they find out.
They also have Ebay listings removed which mention these boards if they list any Nintendo games.

Got any proof of this? 

I've got proof of half a dozen Ebay auctions I've brought to their attention that they've done absolutely nothing about.

I can tell you for sure that Namco gets ebay auctions killed.  Mine was.  I got a nice little letter from ebay stating that Namco had complained that I was selling a bootleg of their product and they killed my auction and told me not to post another one.  I haven't.

Do you want the email?   Let me go look for it.

EDIT: Nice to know you're a snitch BTW...between this and you sending someone to a bogus address to pick up a "FREE" cabinet,  it's obvious...you're all class all the time. 

 

[FrizzleFried]

Here it is:

Dear xxxxxxxxxxx,

You recently listed the following auction-style listing:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX - NEW 48-IN-1 Classic Arcade Multicade JAMMA Game Board


The listing was removed because it violated eBay policy. All fees related to this listing have been credited to your account. We also notified members who placed bids on the item that the listing has
been canceled.



The rights owner, Namco Bandai Games Inc., notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights. When eBay receives a report of
this type of violation, we remove the listing to comply with the law. [emphasis mine]




Copyright infringement is unlawful and against eBay's policies. Copyright is the protection provided by law to the authors of creative works, such as movies, music, software, photographs and books, both published and unpublished. Copyright owners possess the exclusive right to reproduce the copyrighted work, to distribute copies of the copyrighted work, and to perform or display the copyrighted work publicly.

eBay prohibits the listing of unauthorized copies of copyrighted works. Unauthorized copies include (but are not limited to) backup, pirated, duplicated, or bootlegged copies.

Guideline: If the product you are selling is a copy of another work that you aren't authorized to copy, don't list the item.

Selling pirated or unauthorized copies of media material is a copyright infringement and is not permitted on eBay.

For more information visit the following Help page:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html

- Take eBay's brief tutorial on Intellectual Property Policies and VeRO
- Read the ended listings FAQ at http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/vero-removed-listing.html
- Ask eBay a question using the link on the above help page

To take the intellectual property tutorial, please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tutorial/verotutorial/intro.html

Please be aware that any additional violations of this policy may result in the suspension of your account. eBay understands that you may be concerned about this situation.We encourage you to contact Namco Bandai Games Inc. directly if you have any questions. You can send an email to:

pac03@namcobandaigames.com

For more information on how eBay protects Intellectual Property visit the following Help page:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/programs-vero-ov.html




For more information on why eBay may remove a listing, please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/listing-ended.html

Thank you for your understanding.


Sincerely,

eBay Trust & Safety

[ark_ader]

One answer to this is Nintendo of America will. They have successfully prosecuted and fined people for selling and coin-operating multi-game boards with Donkey Kong or other Nintendo games. They won't go after someone using one at home but the OP mentioned siting one which implies coin-operation and they will act on this if they find out.
They also have Ebay listings removed which mention these boards if they list any Nintendo games.

Got any proof of this? 

I've got proof of half a dozen Ebay auctions I've brought to their attention that they've done absolutely nothing about.

I can tell you for sure that Namco gets ebay auctions killed.  Mine was.  I got a nice little letter from ebay stating that Namco had complained that I was selling a bootleg of their product and they killed my auction and told me not to post another one.  I haven't.

Do you want the email?   Let me go look for it.

EDIT: Nice to know you're a snitch BTW...between this and you sending someone to a bogus address to pick up a "FREE" cabinet,  it's obvious...you're all class all the time. 

 

Andy you bad boy!   

Well if you try to sell something on ebay, please make sure it is squeaky clean.  Its a no brainer.   

I am not being a jerk about anything.
The x in 1 boards are out there. Everyone knows it. The MAMEdevs, the frontend owners, the original companies that made the games (if they are still going), everyone!
Every time a thread pops up someone screams you will be prosecuted for owning one. I want to know who is going to do it?

You most certainly are being a jerk....... I said that you can be prosecuted for using one in a commercial application.

I never said that anybody was going to come knocking on your door and arrest you for owning one.  It'd be a waste of time and effort and money to go after a single individual.

But if you run a bar and put one in there and charge people for the privilage of playing it, then don't come crying when you're facing million dollar law suits and the loss of your trading licences.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

I think Fozzy should make an example to show his point in this debate.  I would like to see Fozzy deleating and destroying all his MAME roms in his collection, and go out and buy the licensed versions from the vendors involved, except Namco, Nintendo , Bally and Taito.

That way he can then understand the meaning  (yet again) of "throwing stones".   

After your exhaustive search, Fozzy, you can then advise us on the legal perspective.     

Depending on the state, it could be the state's Attorney General who would shut it down and issue fines in order to fatten the state's wallet.

This has to be the best answer.  Remember the argument of modding Xboxes?  And that dingdong in Cambridge got busted for including games in his sales?  Well I would not like to be the biggest dingdong and have my name in engadget for dealing in dodgy roms.  Because that stink never goes away.   

[FrizzleFried]

Who's Andy?

 

[CheffoJeffo]

Who's Andy?

Isn't he that guy from that WildGalaxianChase(tm) ?

 

[DaveMMR]

I think Fozzy should make an example to show his point in this debate.  I would like to see Fozzy deleating and destroying all his MAME roms in his collection, and go out and buy the licensed versions from the vendors involved, except Namco, Nintendo , Bally and Taito.

That way he can then understand the meaning  (yet again) of "throwing stones".   

Yeah, umm, the only way he's "throwing stones" is if he's putting said roms in a public machine and charging people to play them.  That's the topic at hand here.   I didn't catch that Fozzy, or anyone, was taking issue with just owning a 39-in-1 board or MAME roms or whatever for their own personal, non-commercial, non-profit home use.

[ark_ader]

I think Fozzy should make an example to show his point in this debate.  I would like to see Fozzy deleating and destroying all his MAME roms in his collection, and go out and buy the licensed versions from the vendors involved, except Namco, Nintendo , Bally and Taito.

That way he can then understand the meaning  (yet again) of "throwing stones".  

Yeah, umm, the only way he's "throwing stones" is if he's putting said roms in a public machine and charging people to play them.  That's the topic at hand here.   I didn't catch that Fozzy, or anyone, was taking issue with just owning a 39-in-1 board or MAME roms or whatever for their own personal, non-commercial, non-profit home use.

He knows what I'm talking about. 

[AndyWarne]

Andy you bad boy!   

It wasnt me... honest... I do know someone who has these pulled though.

[nipsmg]

Wow it's amazing how off topic these threads can get.

The question was is it illegal. Answer: Yes.

Is it LIKELY you'll be prosecuted?  Ehh, I guess it depends.  PROBABLY not, unless you really piss someone off, or an employee of a gaming company happens to walk into your establishment, or an employee of a local gaming distributor who's been trying to get your business , etc. 

It's like downloading music online.  Is it illegal?  YES.  Are you going to be prosecuted?  PROBABLY not, but it can and does happen, although it's not that common. 

You have your answer, it's illegal.  If you choose to break the law and get caught, it's your own a**.  And.. it's a pretty stupid thing to get fined or go to jail for. 

[CheffoJeffo]

It's like downloading music online.  Is it illegal?  YES.

Are you sure ?

 

[ark_ader]

Andy you bad boy!   

It wasnt me... honest... I do know someone who has these pulled though.

I think the only bad thing you have ever done is used DHL instead of Parcelforce.......... 

I would think it was anyones responsibility to inform the authorities if a crime was being committed.  Doesn't matter if it is murder, rape or theft.  Just because it is not hurting anyone, it still doesn't make it right.  39 in 1 boards probably do not carry a capital offence, but you see my point.

I always worry that if I do see a 39 in 1 on ebay and report it,  the cops will enquire and find my roms stash and haul me in too.

 

[FrizzleFried]

I think some people have way too much free time on their hands...but then again,  look at where I am posting this.

 

[Fozzy The Bear]

He knows what I'm talking about. 

I don't have a bloody clue what you're talking about...... So stop talking in riddles and come out and say whatever it is that you ARE talking about.

The question was, is it illegal to use a multi game board in a commercial application.... The answer is YES IT IS! and that was the answer I gave. 

So if you have something to say then please feel free to illuminate the rest of us as to what that is??

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[rlemmon]

Holy hell what have i done    Thanks for all your replys guys.

[cornishHen]

it really doesn't look as if authorities care if these boards are sold.  I have seen these sold publicly on websites for some time.    A quick search for "jamma 48-in-1" brings up plenty of vendors for the boards.  Almost all appearing at top of the search are U.S. companies..

[AaronGiles]

The authorities might not care, but it's not really their business. They might care if you operate the machine since many places have laws on operating only machines that meet certain criteria in public places. But I don't know anything about that.

The people who do care are those of us whose games are being pirated (in the case of the arcade manufacturers) or whose work is being used against the license (in the case of MAME). The fact that these things are sold at a profit and used to make money just pisses me off.

Now, you might look at the situation and think, well, who's going to come after me? And you might be right/lucky that none of the arcade manufacturers have you on their radar, or that nobody working on MAME has deep enough pockets to make it a legal issue. So yes, there is a good chance that you would get away with it without being thrown in jail or having to cough up thousands of dollars.

In the end, it boils down to a moral choice. Do you respect the property rights of the IP holders? Do you respect the wishes of the folks who write the software that you get for free? If not, then do what you will, but please don't pollute this forum -- which was built on the back of the software whose license so many here seem to be eager to ignore -- with discussing it.