MAME vs 48-in-1 benefit analysis....

[Lutus]

I have a DK machine with DK3 in it.

Vertical monitor, 4 way joystick, 1 button.

What is the benefit of getting a 48-in-1 vs using MAME, computer, ArcadeVGA etc...

What games would I miss out on by doing this?

Let the discussion begin!

EDIT:  Removed initial cost from the consideration

[FrizzleFried]

48-in-1 = 48 games
MAME = about 800+ vertical games

I'd say you'd be losing out on 750+ games.

Also take in to consideration that the 48-in-1 boards do not save anything but the highest score...no initials...no 2nd place...etc...

They ARE much easier (plug and play with a vertical JAMMA cabinet)...and they do have their uses,  but trying decide between a 48-in-1 and going MAME is like comparing a nice warm log cabin to a 8,000 sq ft mansion.

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm not quite as ascerbic about the 48-in-1 as Frizzle is, but that is mostly because my 48-in-1 gets more play than my vertical MAME ever did.

It covers most of the vertical classics that I want and people, for whatever reason, play it more than they did the vertical MAME. Same cabinet -- I just swapped the MAME rig for the 48-in-1.

[divemaster127]

I'm using a 48 in 1 in my cocktail, the board is perfect for that application
dm

[shardian]

I don't know about 800 games. I narrowed a list for vert, single player, 4-way, 2 buttons to be roughly 100 games. I have a whole disc set up and ready to go for that at home. First off, I can't bring myself to dedicate a good computer to a 4-way vertical machine, so arcadevga is out due to no agp slot. If you have a pc with agp to use, then more power to you.

The cost of the 48-1 has dropped drastically and still is dropping. The price point is becoming negligible in choice. Lets put it this way, you can get a 48-1 for less than an arcadevga/jpac right now.

Setup wise, the 48-1 wins hands down. If you have jamma, you plug it in, and go thru a quick set of setup screens. 5-10 minutes and you are done for good with setup. In your case, you would need to address the fact that you don't have jamma - but a nintendo wiring harness and a Nintendo monitor. So it won't exactly be a plug and play environment.

If you go simplistic, MAME can be set up fairly quick, but front ends can be a pain in the ass to set up. you also have to sort and trim a romset, download software, set up software, blah, blah, etc.

Long story short, it is really your preference. With a Nintendo cabinet, the setup will be about the same either way.

I can also give you one last point of interest. The resale value of a cabinet with a 48-1 is higher than a cabinet with an old beater pc in it.

[CheffoJeffo]

The resale value of a cabinet with a 48-1 is higher than a cabinet with an old beater pc in it.

Ain't that the true ...

I know a guy with a similar handle to mine (wonder if he still visits here ?) who couldn't sell his MAME cab ... dropped a 48-in-1 in it and sold it for far more than he was originally asking.

It absolutely made me think about building cabs for sale ... except that would require me to actually build ... 

[shardian]

The resale value of a cabinet with a 48-1 is higher than a cabinet with an old beater pc in it.

Ain't that the true ...

I know a guy with a similar handle to mine (wonder if he still visits here ?) who couldn't sell his MAME cab ... dropped a 48-in-1 in it and sold it for far more than he was originally asking.

It absolutely made me think about building cabs for sale ... except that would require me to actually build ... 

I am considering sending my 48-1 cabinet to the Pennsylvania pin show in May with a local pinhead to sell. I've been told I could easily "settle" for $800. 

[whammoed]

If I were to put together something for someone else I would definitely go with a 48in1 over MAME due to ease of setup and use.  For me though I don't want to do without the configurability I get with MAME (advmame in my case) and a custom front end.  For a strictly vertical setup I woulndn't have too many more games than the 48in1 provides though.  I wouldn't play anything else anyway, and I don't like the menu to be overwhelming for guests.

I would assume that the emulation in MAME is better than the 48in1?  Anyone that can comment on that?

[Lutus]

Edit,

Cost of resale of cabinets is fine but talk of 48-in-1 prices is not an issue so please don't speak of such things!!   

But keep all the other comments coming!!   

[Lutus]

I agree that the people tend to have an easy time working the front end of the 48-in-1.

I would never sell this sucker but since I have 3 other machines that I am restoring/updating at the moment I will probably put the computer and ArcadeVGA into my "spinner/trackball rotating monitor machine that is in the works".

[ahofle]

First off, I can't bring myself to dedicate a good computer to a 4-way vertical machine, so arcadevga is out due to no agp slot. If you have a pc with agp to use, then more power to you.

The ArcadeVGA is available in both AGP and PCIe.

Repeating whammoed , how accurate is the emulation on those 48-1 boards?  If it's anywhere near as bad as the Ultracade cabinet's emulation (sounds were off), I would definitely go with MAME. 

[Fozzy The Bear]

48 in 1
Advantages:
No set-up,
no front end to configure,
48 classic games, which mostly work.
Good for an existing vertical JAMMA Cab.
Easy as 1,2,3 to fit and use hence quickly set up.

Dissadvantages:
Completely illegal to use commercially (but then so is Mame anyway)
Less games to choose from,
far less flexible,
not customisable,
no way to personalise the software or front end,
no way to add or change games.
Sometimes difficult to interface some controls, hence again less flexible, with some games on it requiring controls that are not available.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[leapinlew]

I like computers because I can put in a nicer looking front end. I dislike the screenshot selection screen on the 48's. I don't like configuring the settings for the PC, but it's nice to know if it breaks down I can put a new PC in there and copy over 2 directories and I'm back in business.

[shardian]

The ArcadeVGA is available in both AGP and PCIe.

Repeating whammoed , how accurate is the emulation on those 48-1 boards?  If it's anywhere near as bad as the Ultracade cabinet's emulation (sounds were off), I would definitely go with MAME. 

If an old pc don't have AGP, then it most definitely does not have PCIe.

As to emulation, the 48-1 is comparable to MAME. The only quirk I have seen is that sometimes when you start Ms. Pacman the 1st screen is blue. If you die or advance, it goes back to normal. Other than that everything works perfect.

[knave]

Dissadvantages:

not customisable,
no way to personalise the software or front end,
no way to add or change games.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

I'm pretty sure you can change the menu to show or not show any of the 48 games available.
So you can turn off games that you don't like etc...

[Lutus]

I think Frizzle has mentioned that he disabled the trackball games and such since he didn't have a trackball.

As far as commercially illegal I believe I have seen a board like this used in a commercial setting, has any one else witnessed this?

[juggle50]

The ArcadeVGA is available in both AGP and PCIe.

Repeating whammoed , how accurate is the emulation on those 48-1 boards?  If it's anywhere near as bad as the Ultracade cabinet's emulation (sounds were off), I would definitely go with MAME. 

If an old pc don't have AGP, then it most definitely does not have PCIe.

As to emulation, the 48-1 is comparable to MAME. The only quirk I have seen is that sometimes when you start Ms. Pacman the 1st screen is blue. If you die or advance, it goes back to normal. Other than that everything works perfect.

Actually, the blue screen in Ms. Pacman isn't a quirk.  If you put a coin in before blinky appears you will start out with a blue maze instead of pink.  It was in the original and in MAME as well.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=61106.0

[CheffoJeffo]

As far as commercially illegal I believe I have seen a board like this used in a commercial setting, has any one else witnessed this?

It is done and it is illegal (no license for the games in question).

[2600]

As far as commercially illegal I believe I have seen a board like this used in a commercial setting, has any one else witnessed this?

It is done and it is illegal (no license for the games in question).

To add to that, the 48-1 is running an older version of MAME and is violating the MAME license.

[CheffoJeffo]

As far as commercially illegal I believe I have seen a board like this used in a commercial setting, has any one else witnessed this?

It is done and it is illegal (no license for the games in question).

To add to that, the 48-1 is running an older version of MAME and is violating the MAME license.

Is it ?

There was a thread in which I specifically asked the MAMEDevs which boards were MAME-based. I don't think I got a solid answer for the 48-in-1s. For the Babystar 465-in-1, and other triple-digit-in-1s, the answer is pretty clearly yes, but I don't recall a definitive answer for the 48-in-1s.

I asked the question originally because at least one MAMEDev had suggested that Clay's multiboards (sold by ArcadeShop) were MAME-based, but another refuted that (as does Clay himself).

[Jdurg]

I think Frizzle has mentioned that he disabled the trackball games and such since he didn't have a trackball.

As far as commercially illegal I believe I have seen a board like this used in a commercial setting, has any one else witnessed this?

Heh.  I've also seen people smoking pot in public and I know that's illegal.   

[2600]

Clay's Original MultiWilliams is the only one that is definitely not running MAME.  It's on the original Williams boards.
Also, any of the ones that run on original older boards are not MAME.  Like the 99 PAC, Double Pede, Double Donkey Kong, etc.

The 465 through 1066 or whatever.  Definitely MAME.  Really easy to tell as they are PC's with a FAT filesystem, IIRC.

The Arcade shop boards.  They sell 2 versions correct, Horizontal and Vertical?  The Horizontal originally started out as a another MultiWilliams.  I do not know anything about these.  I wouldn't be suprised if the vertical was MAME and Horizontal  was Non MAME and may of switched to MAME at some point.


The 48 in 1, 39 in 1, definitely MAME.  All are ARM based CPU's running MAME.  You can look at the ROM dump of the 39 in 1 to see for yourself, http://www.mameworld.net/maws/index_search.php?sourceid=Mozilla-search&search_text=48

saint's edit - link fixed

[shardian]

Actually, the blue screen in Ms. Pacman isn't a quirk.  If you put a coin in before blinky appears you will start out with a blue maze instead of pink.  It was in the original and in MAME as well.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=61106.0

Neat, I did not know that. It makes sense this happens so often then, since the credit is added immediately on loading the game.

[CheffoJeffo]

Clay's Original MultiWilliams is the only one that is definitely not running MAME.  It's on the original Williams boards.
Also, any of the ones that run on original older boards are not MAME.  Like the 99 PAC, Double Pede, Double Donkey Kong, etc.

Agreed (was never at issue).

The 465 through 1066 or whatever.  Definitely MAME.  Really easy to tell as they are PC's with a FAT filesystem, IIRC.

Agreed (was never at issue).

The Arcade shop boards.  They sell 2 versions correct, Horizontal and Vertical?  The Horizontal originally started out as a another MultiWilliams.  I do not know anything about these.  I wouldn't be suprised if the vertical was MAME and Horizontal  was Non MAME and may of switched to MAME at some point.

These are the boards that I specifically asked about -- because they were designed by Clay and one MAMEDev had already said that they were MAME-based. Clay says that they aren't based on MAME and I tend to believe him. IIRC, Aaron chimed in and said that he didn't think that they were MAME-based. I don't see for any reason why Clay would have to steal from MAMEDevs ... after all, he does have *some* background in emulation, including very public and very legal emulation of some of the games in question.

The 48 in 1, 39 in 1, definitely MAME.  All are ARM based CPU's running MAME.  You can look at the ROM dump of the 39 in 1 to see for yourself, http://www.mameworld.net/maws/index_search.php?sourceid=Mozilla-search&search_text=48

Not sure what you are getting at here, because I can't make that link work (even after I undo the link-fu I end up looking at a list with astorm3 and swat).

NOTE: I am not disagreeing that the 48-in-1s are not MAME-based, just that I have never received a definitive answer. Add to that the fact that these (I do recognize the difference between boards, so if there is a relevant distinction perhaps we should make it now) are sold in the USA by reputable dealers, against whom MAMEDevs could take legal action but haven't, and I am not yet convinced.

EDIT: Link To Thread In Question ... makes the same point that 2600 made, but I notice that the direct question about Dav's claim that 48-in-1s are "almost certainly" MAME-based was never responded to.

[2600]

The Arcade shop boards.  They sell 2 versions correct, Horizontal and Vertical?  The Horizontal originally started out as a another MultiWilliams.  I do not know anything about these.  I wouldn't be suprised if the vertical was MAME and Horizontal  was Non MAME and may of switched to MAME at some point.

These are the boards that I specifically asked about -- because they were designed by Clay and one MAMEDev had already said that they were MAME-based. Clay says that they aren't based on MAME and I tend to believe him. IIRC, Aaron chimed in and said that he didn't think that they were MAME-based. I don't see for any reason why Clay would have to steal from MAMEDevs ... after all, he does have *some* background in emulation, including very public and very legal emulation of some of the games in question.

The 48 in 1, 39 in 1, definitely MAME.  All are ARM based CPU's running MAME.  You can look at the ROM dump of the 39 in 1 to see for yourself, http://www.mameworld.net/maws/index_search.php?sourceid=Mozilla-search&search_text=48

Not sure what you are getting at here, because I can't make that link work (even after I undo the link-fu I end up looking at a list with astorm3 and swat).

NOTE: I am not disagreeing that the 48-in-1s are not MAME-based, just that I have never received a definitive answer. Add to that the fact that these (I do recognize the difference between boards, so if there is a relevant distinction perhaps we should make it now) are sold in the USA by reputable dealers, against whom MAMEDevs could take legal action but haven't, and I am not yet convinced.

Some of the first information was just for those playing along.  Also, from the previous thread I was just trying to be very specific.  Some members do not understand the difference between the original PCB and the other boards and others thought MAME only runs on PCs.  Also, I wanted to be very specific about which board we are talking about.

The Arcadeshop information.  That issue is still floating.   I don't know.

The other board(s) I was talking about are the ones the thread is talking about, but I gave you a bad link.
http://www.mameworld.net/maws/romset/39in1
MAME has a dump of the 39in1.  You can look at the dump and prove that it is running MAME.

[CheffoJeffo]

Thanks for the clarifications -- you are probably right about making those distinctions in the early points.

I think that we can consider the matter of Clay's boards closed since I found that link and Aaron said that Clay's boards are not MAME.

thanks for the link ... I'm not 100% convinced that it proves what you say it does (I'll take your word rather than look at the dumps), but it does say something.

 

EDIT: For clarification on the last point

[CrazyKongFan]

I don't know if there's more than one 48-in-1 out there, but they just put an arcade in at the local mall, and one of the machines is an old Ms Pac cabinet with a multigame PCB in it, and it's 48 games. I've only played a few games on it, Pac-man sounded normal, Donkey Kong sounded a little funny (mostly Mario's running), Gyruss sounded horrible. The games I played, all had the copyright info removed (with only the date left)

[nostrebor]

That would be the 48 in 1 we are discussing. Emulation seems to be solid, other than the sounds on certain games, and the lack of proper controls for certain games.

[ahofle]

I don't know if there's more than one 48-in-1 out there, but they just put an arcade in at the local mall, and one of the machines is an old Ms Pac cabinet with a multigame PCB in it, and it's 48 games. I've only played a few games on it, Pac-man sounded normal, Donkey Kong sounded a little funny (mostly Mario's running), Gyruss sounded horrible. The games I played, all had the copyright info removed (with only the date left)

Try Phoenix.  That one sounded horrible on the X in one cabinet I played on.  In fact it sounded identical to MAME back before the discrete sounds were implemented correctly.

[CrazyKongFan]

Try Phoenix.  That one sounded horrible on the X in one cabinet I played on.  In fact it sounded identical to MAME back before the discrete sounds were implemented correctly.

I'll have to try it and see/hear it the next time I'm there The other complaint I have with it is the joystick. It's WAY too sloppy.  Don't know if it's the one that came with it (the Ms Pac cabinet), or they replaced it. At least it only costs a quarter (well, 1 token)

[2600]

I don't know if there's more than one 48-in-1 out there, but they just put an arcade in at the local mall, and one of the machines is an old Ms Pac cabinet with a multigame PCB in it, and it's 48 games. I've only played a few games on it, Pac-man sounded normal, Donkey Kong sounded a little funny (mostly Mario's running), Gyruss sounded horrible. The games I played, all had the copyright info removed (with only the date left)

Try Phoenix.  That one sounded horrible on the X in one cabinet I played on.  In fact it sounded identical to MAME back before the discrete sounds were implemented correctly.

That's because it is MAME.  DK is using the 3 samples for when Mario is walking instead of using Discrete sounds like MAME currently does.

[CrazyKongFan]

Try Phoenix.  That one sounded horrible on the X in one cabinet I played on.  In fact it sounded identical to MAME back before the discrete sounds were implemented correctly.

You're right, it does sound horrible. Had a chance to try it tonight.

[the King]

I have the 48 in 1 and I would say my biggest beef is that it only saves the highest score and no initials.  Sure the original games didn't when you shut them off either, but it just would be nice when you have lots of people coming over that it would save who's in second place or fifth place in a game.  Other than that I'm pretty happy with it, the sound issues don't bother me and no one else I'm having play on it have a clue there is a issue.