Ipac slow button response?

[pressthebutton]

Hi guys

I'm having a slow button response with Ipac2 from Ultimarc.
I've tried the Passmark keyboard tester software and there is a small response delay when I press slowly each button.

When I press the buttons rapidly and continuously (either joysticks and buttons) the time to complete all commands is very long.
I can see the buttons being pressed long after I actually gave the command.
Say, in a rapid 15 button pushing sequence I can get as much as a 3 seconds delay.
Just like an audio latency problem, when you record audio via a music keyboard into the pc.

I tried everything I could remember, hdrive formatting, new windows installation, new cables, etc.
Also I did a general wiring test, a notepad test for shorted/stuck buttons and no luck.
Everything seems to be ok from the technical point of view.

I'm starting to run out of ideas.
A fresh point of view would be appreciated.


PB
 

[Turnarcades]

Try these:

1) Check the PS/2 or USB cable. Swap if necessary. If using a USB connection, check your USB drivers for conflicts.

2) Check your earths. Any loose or crossed connections will cause problems.

3) Make sure to test it in the Ultimarc layout utility for response times.

4) If it is only highighting the delay in things like MAME (not in notepad etc., try turning triple buffering off. I found this strange effect before I altered my settings, and it went away instantly when I turned TB off.

5) If possible, try another i-pac. If yours is older or second-hand, it may be faulty. No i-pac I've had has been faulty yet, but Andy is cool so will probably swap it if necessary. If the problem persists, it's gotta be a software issue, or your mainboard sockets could be damaged.

[protokatie]

What Samshaw said, plus:

(6) Plug in another keyboard into the port you have your Ipac plugged into, and see if the keyboard is also as slow.

EDIT:
Also, you are only using one software product to test this? Try DLing Ghostkey (link is on the ultimarc site). It runs in a DOS box, and you may see that the delays are due to your software... (Just an idea)

[TOK]

I'm not familiar with the test software you're using and it would probably show this, but I had the same symptoms as you are describing caused by a stuck button.

It was real bad in my case... Not only did it cause lag in other key presses, I'm running an old P3/933mhz in my bartop cab and it would bog the whole machine down. Initially I thought I had a PC problem.

[pressthebutton]

Hi guys thanks for the input!

The Ipac is a brand new ps2.

The passmark keyboard tester was adviced by Andy as the best way to perform the test.

All connections/wiring were tested cautiously with a multimeter. No stuck keys were found by ultimarc notepad Ipac tester.

Here are the new steps I've taken, without any change to the problem:

- new keyboard connected to Ipac.
- unplug Ipac and operate directly with a keyboard.
- tried a different keyboard either in Ipac pass through and direct connection to the mobo, but no changes.
- tried to install win xp pro oem instead of tiny xp, but no luck.
- tried a different mobo with the exact same hardware, but the problem persists. (hardware= PIII 800 mhz socket 370 - via chipset / 512 ram / soundblaster / arcade vga).

When I tested the Ipac on a dual core pc I could not notice the same delay problem found on the PIII mobos. What could be the reason? I'm puzzled!

samshaw,

when you advice to check the earths do you refer to the switch (joystick/button) or the mobo? I'm asking you this because the mobo is not assembled to the chassis/case right now. I was hoping not to use a case inside the cabinet just the mobo, etc.

Where can I access the triple buffer option?


Thanks,

PB

[Turnarcades]

The earths on your control panel/buttons. If they are daisy-chained, make sure there isn't a loose one there.

If the problem was not evident on another PC though, it must be the PC you are using. Nothing to do  with performance, as I regularly use PC's between 500mhz-1000mhz with no problems. Either there is a driver conflict with your PC or the ports are damaged.

Go into MAME.ini to find the triple buffering option and change it to 0. Or if using MAME32, go nto the 'default game settings' in the drop-down menus and un-check it, though I now dubt this is the problem.

[pressthebutton]

The earths are not daisy-chained.
I'm using a terminal (don't know the exact name for it) to connect player 1 and 2 grounds separately. Then everything is connected to either p1 and p2 Ipac ground input.

Very strange that both pIII mobos act the same way.
It's a long shot that both keyboard inputs are defective...

Tried on a pIV this afternoon and button response was ok.

What the...?


PB

 

[Turnarcades]

It's very unusual, especially as I work with P3's all the time with no problems. Maybe the seperate earthing is causing the problem; all of my panels are daisy-chained and grounded via the i-pac via 1 connection.

[Hoopz]

Email Andy at Ultimarc.

[pressthebutton]

I'm starting to believe that there is no problem with the Ipac.

Andy as been helping me to troubleshoot the problem and everything points to a non Ipac issue.

When I connect a keyboard directly to any of my pIII mobos keyboard port, I get the key response delay, without any interference from the Ipac.

The only relation between the two pIII mobos is the via chipset.

Could it be some kind of driver missing?


PB
 

[DeLuSioNal29]

I also have a PS2 version and have not encountered this problem.

However, here's something to try to rule out the PS2 port on the motherboard.  Plug in a USB adapter into the ipace and then plug in a USB cable from there to the computer's USB port.  See if still has the lag then.  If it doesn't then it's a faulty PS2 port on your motherboard.

~ D

[Turnarcades]

Ditto. This was gonna be my next suggestion.

Being a VIA chipset should be irrelevant, as I've not had problems on similar chipsets.

[pressthebutton]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've connected a USB keyboard to the mobo (usb port) and the lag is still there.
Man, should I give up on this one? Both pIII mobos display the same problem either in ps2 or USB keyboard port.

Guess I'm going to have to buy a new pc just because of this...

It sucks....! I had the cab almost ready except for this unexpected problem.

PB

 

[pressthebutton]

A friend suggested to delete the windows pagefile (virtual memory) as it is known to influence this type of behaviour but no luck. The problem persists.

PB

[protokatie]

A friend suggested to delete the windows pagefile (virtual memory) as it is known to influence this type of behaviour but no luck. The problem persists.

DL a copy of Knoppix, burn it onto a CD (or a DVD if you DL that version). Boot off of the knoppix disc and see if you still have the lag. If the lag is still present, then it is a hardware thing, not an OS thing... If not, you may need to reinstall windows or look for better drivers...

[pressthebutton]

Hi protokatie,

excuse my ignorance, is knoppix a linux OS version?


PB

[EwJ]

It's a long shot - but - by any chance, is one of your ipac inputs a keyboard SHIFT?  If so, is there a chance it's hooked up to microswitch NC instead of NO? or could you have held down the shift key on either of these machines and enabled Sticky Keys or Filter Keys?
Check Control Panel / Accessibility Options  - check that Sticky, Filter, etc are unchecked/disabled?

[protokatie]

excuse my ignorance, is knoppix a linux OS version?

Yes, it is what is called a "Live distro", meaning you can boot off of it without having to install it. One of the best troubleshooting checks for something like this is to use another OS. This can help you see if it is a software or hardware issue. If it works in Knoppix, then the problem is the software (OS or other) that you are using. If it doesnt work in Knoppix, it means that the hardware or firmware is at fault.. Its a very easy way to split the troubleshooting in twine.

It's a long shot - but - by any chance, is one of your ipac inputs a keyboard SHIFT?  If so, is there a chance it's hooked up to microswitch NC instead of NO? or could you have held down the shift key on either of these machines and enabled Sticky Keys or Filter Keys?
Check Control Panel / Accessibility Options  - check that Sticky, Filter, etc are unchecked/disabled?

Thats actually NOT a long shot! Damn windows likes to ask you if you need to have sticky keys enabled if you hit the shift key too many times in a row. And if sticky keys are enabled, then it could cause problems.. There is a thread on here that has the info on how to disable this kind of thing in Windows... Forgot what it was, maybe the origonal poster can give the info again..


EDIT: NM, the info on how to disable sticky keys was in the quote...

[pressthebutton]

I was looking for the accessibility options in Tiny PX but it seems that function was stripped away.

When pressing constantly the shift button the sticky keys function doesn't come up.
Currently I've ruled out the Ipac from the problem as the keyboard (direct connection) behaves the same way, displaying the same lag.

It occurred to me that it could be a Bios update issue. Both pIII mobos are from DFI.

Going to give Knoppix a shot.

PB





 

[EwJ]

Have you done a ctrl-alt-del and checked to see if anything is chewing your cpu cycles and/or memory?
And checked device manager for anything weird like missing drivers, etc?
Couple other long shots:
In the bios, are there settings for repeat delay, repeat rate, etc?
Install at any time MS Intellipoint or Intelli-anything drivers for keyboard/mouse?

[pressthebutton]

Hi EwJ,

I've checked the device manager and everything is fine, at least there isn't a obvious conflict or lack of drivers in any device.

The cpu load seems normal. No, I didn't install any Intellipoint related drivers.

Going to check the Bios and look for the settings you mentioned.

Thanks!

PB

[EwJ]

Just in case it somehow is the filterkeys prob, try pressing both shift buttons at the same time.  Then see if there's any difference.
No diff, try hitting both at same time twice.  If no diff, try holding left shift and pressing f7, then press rt shift 3 times.
If none of that makes any difference, it may at least eliminate the stickykeys thing as the problem, although there are registry settings you could check for those also.

If you go to Control Panel-->device Manager-->View-show hidden devices...,
then uninstall all Ipac and keyboard devices, then disconnect all Ipacs/keyboards.
Shut down.
Plug in only 1 keyboard (perhaps the usb keyboard if the ps/2 was giving the initial problems).
Reboot, check device manager for the usb keyboard and all drivers, etc are a-okay.
Test it out, if still laggy, try the both shift at same time, etc (as above).
Then, still probs..goto  Control Panel--->Keyboard--->Speed tab
Check that repeat delay is near slow, the repeat rate is all the way to fast, cursor fast..
You can also check the hardware tab, it should just show what you saw in device manager,
the one keyboard, the location, status (working properly), etc.

If it's none of that, and nothing strange in the bios, and bios update doesn't help, there are   a couple registry settings you could check.......if all that and the 'live' linux distro doesn't rule anything out......a big hammer won't solve anything, but a little 'smashy smashy' might feel good.

[Kajoq]

Pushthebutton - You could try overclocking the polling rate on the USB device.  It shouldn't matter but its worth a shot.

If you google around you can find programs that will overclock the USB polling rate from 125hz to 1000hz.  This will give the port ~1ms response time instead of ~6ms. 

[M37R01D]

I use an IPAC4 and mine recently had that problem, especially with 2+ players
The solution was to use the ps/2 not USB connection, and the keyboard was plugged in over USB strait to the PC.

[pressthebutton]

Hi guys, thanks for the help!

I've tried everything you suggest but the sucker behaves the same way  !!
Can any of you, with a pIII board do the keyboard lag test with "keyboard tester" app from Passmark, just to confirm if you experience the same problem? You will have to push rapidly a sequence of keys or buttons/joysticks and see if there is any lag and if so, what's the extent.
It could be in my head...

http://www.passmark.com/products/keytest.htm

Dual core and p4 mobos don't have this problem.
Ipac works just fine and key response is very fast. When using keyboard tester in this mobos you can see a huge difference in key response (faster but not real-time) compared to the pIII machines.

I'm waiting for knoppix to finish downloading.

PB