painting!

[ArtsNFartsNCrafts]

When painting, how do you avoid the final product looking like this:




(no offense to the dude who made it, as i'm sure it functions fine).

I'm using plywood, but it's finished on one side, so I anticipate that even if I were to paint it poorly, it wouldn't be as bad as in the pic.

[Level42]

Looks like he didn't use any primer to me.

That's the first step.

[protokatie]

Looks like he didn't use any primer to me.

Same here. And also, depending on what wood is being used, a finishing carpenter friend of mine told me that there are different primers that you need to consider.

On the other hand, I like the look of that primer-less cocktail cab. I am one who likes woodgrain showing.

[ArtsNFartsNCrafts]

See...if it was up to me, I'd use vinyl "nasty wood grain" laminate reminiscent of the 80's cabs...

..but I have a soon-to-be spouse who insists that it at LEAST match the rest of the home to some extent, haha.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Yes, I agree.  Primer is the key.  Also, he may have used a water based paint.  Make sure it is NOT water based.  Also, the more coats the better in my opinion.

~ D

[ArtsNFartsNCrafts]

Also, I'm curious about the process of painting, sanding, painting, sanding, etc.



....how does that work?  And what is its function? 


Thanks for the advice thus far!

[CheffoJeffo]

Prime well.

Sand.

Paint.

Sand.

Paint.

Sand.

Paint.

The function is to avoid the finish that you pointed out.

I paint with HQ foam rollers and don't always sand between coats (but then, my cabs are int he basement, away from the light).

[ArtsNFartsNCrafts]

What kind of sanding?  Just like...sand paper?  Electric sander?


What kind of grit?


And what is "wet sanding" vs "dry sanding" and what exactly are their contrasing functions?

[Hoopz]

This is the third time, I think, that I have linked to this quote.  Somebody could call me a stalker.... 

This is basically what  I did:

1.  Sanded MDF with 600 grit to get it as smooth as possible
2.  Applied OIL-based primer - rolled on with a 4" foam roller (2 coats).  Sanding after the 2nd coat with 220 grit.
3.  Applied water-based pink paint - rolled on with a 4" foam roller (6 coats).  Sanding after the 2nd, 4th and 5th coats with 220 grit.
4.  Sprayed on 25 coats of lacquer straight from the can - no sanding.
5.  Wetsanded like crazy with 1500 grit - I spent 8 hours just on this step
6.  Applied rubbing compound with soft cotton rag (2 coats)
7.  Applied polish with soft cotton rag and buffer (2 coats)

HERE are a few good shots of the difference the rubbing compound/polish makes.

I did not have access to any spraying tools/materials, unfortunately.  The lacquer was easy to apply though - I did it all in one weekend since each coat dried in 20 minutes.  I couldn't get it perfect but the finish still looks 1,000,000 times better than leaving brushstrokes on there with ordinary paint, IMO.  It almost looks like it came from the factory or something.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do - I'd be happy to answer any questions if I can...   

His paint job looks incredible.  Someone posted once after I quoted him again, that it seemed like too much work.  If you want a great paint job, follow his steps.  If it is too much work, then you may end up with less than stellar results.

[CheffoJeffo]

Thanks, HooPZ ... I was just looking for exactly that post ... and there is no way I would ever go to those extremes (25 coats of lacquer!) , but if i did, i expect that the finish would be BEE-YOO-TI-FUL!

[f4phantomii]

If you have the tools and the working space, you simply can't beat a spray finish.

I use a $150 el-cheapo no-name oil-less air compressor and a $20 spray gun.  Works great.  I paint everything that way now.  I just use regular acrylic-latex with no problems.

The trick is to adjust the viscosity of the paint so that it is fluid enough to hit the surface and let the drops run together, and then flash before drips or sags start.  Takes a little practice, but it looks factory when done.

As for avoiding woodgrain, another technique I've seen used is to take epoxy and apply it in a thin coat to fill in the grain.  Then sand lightly.

Apply a couple of coats of primer and sand lightly between to make sure you have any pits filled that survived the epoxy.

After that, apply a couple of coats of paint and you are done.

If you don't want to go the epoxy route, you might try to find some "hi-build" primer.  It has lots of talc in it so that it goes on really thick to fill in gaps and crevices.  Sand as usual and then paint as usual.

[mountain]

Or you could laminate it. It costs more, but it is quicker, not as messy, and look incredible when finished.

[ArtsNFartsNCrafts]

Okay.  So how about this:


What brand/kind of paint(s), primer(s), and lacquer(s) do you guys use?

[f4phantomii]

If you are just going to paint it flat black or semi-gloss black, just about any cheap brand will do, as long as it hasn't been sitting on the shelf for 2-3 years.

For lighter colors, especially white, I typically use Behr.  For darker colors I've used everything from ACE brand to really expensive designer paints like Calvin Klein.  Pretty much no difference when you are spraying them.

If you are going to brush or roll, I'd recommend either Behr or Glidden.

[Hoopz]

Thanks, HooPZ ... I was just looking for exactly that post ... and there is no way I would ever go to those extremes (25 coats of lacquer!) , but if i did, i expect that the finish would be BEE-YOO-TI-FUL!

20 minutes to dry each coat and he did it all in a weekend!  That's not painting a cabinet; it's art that happens to play arcade games.

I went the quick and easy route.  I have two little girls that saw the side of a cabinet and grabbed crayons when I was in the other room.  No biggie since it's in their playroom.  They'll pay it back in sweat equity in a few years.   

[ArtsNFartsNCrafts]

And wet vs. dry sanding.  Anyone got any input on that?

[Jdurg]

All wet-sanding is dry-sanding with some liquid put in to help remove the sanded off particles.  It's a lubricant of sorts that removes the build up of "gunk" in the sandpaper and allows it to work better.  It also prevents a lot of the sanding particles from going into the air and messing up the area.

[CheffoJeffo]

If he actually did '25 coats', there would have been a puddle of lacquer on the floor when he was done.

Not if he let it dry between coats ...

[IA1NY]

No,  This doesn't look like the guy glopped lacquer on.  Besides, there are techniques of lacquer ware that call for hundreds of coats of paint which are then sanded to create interesting patterns.  In the right panel, you can see that the material was a fir plywood.  There isn't much you can do about it.  Yes, you can do the painting and sanding, but as the wood swells and shrinks according to the humidity of the seasons, the grain pattern will return.  Use a cabinet grade plywood such as a birch or maple plywood or even MDF which has no grain.  There is almost no grain to these plywoods, and what grain there is can easily be filled and painted out.

If you have already started with fir plywood, you have a couple of choices: Start over or veneer your wood. The number of layers of paint you need to adequately smooth out the surface of fir plywood will cost comparable to a laminate surface.  Formica style laminate comes in three grades: Vertical (thin), Horizontal (med) and countertop (thick).  You can use the Vertical or "V" grade on most, if not all surfaces.  Just be careful about getting an even glue surface because the thinness of the laminate will show unevenness of the adhesive.  You can get laminate in any number of colors and patterns.  a second type you can get is called backer board which is simply the laminate with the face sanded so that you can paint it.  We use it a lot in the entertainment industry with great results.

[ArtsNFartsNCrafts]

the plywood i'm using is cabinet grade...it's actually got a pretty decent finish on one side.  i'd prefer to paint it.  i just have never painted anything which required (or at least suggested) priming, sanding, painting, sanding, painting, etc.

[Franco B]

It sounds like your dead set on painting but personally I'm going to use self adhesive (hopefully textured) vinyl. Its not as expensive as laminate but it should give a really nice finish.

Kind of going off topic here but all this talk of painting and prep reminds me of a flip MIVEC cover one of my friends of our FTO owners club made for his car. A complete flip cab may look over kill but I think a flip CP or other detail would look awesome.

You would need to do a lot of prep etc like javeryh did to get it looking right but it would look pretty sweet.

[ArtsNFartsNCrafts]

Hey franco, did you get my PM?

[fjl]

When I did my small joystick I used spray paint and no laquer. I primed obviously. Kilz primer. Non oil based. I used a fine foam roller for this. Someone on this board said foam rollers do a pretty smooth finish. Well either I did it wrong or it was lie since I even used a foam that was meant to do an "ultra smooth" finish.

Anyways, I had to sand it down to make it perfectly flat. After I used spray paint. I wanted to use laquer but instead only used the spray paint. Made sure it was high gloss spray paint. Sanded it down and spray painted again. Did this perhaps three times. Then got finer grades of sand paper and commenced doing wet sanding. Last grade I used was 2000 grit. Then finally I used a clean rag and rubbed the paint pretty hard with my fingers using a rubbing compound. This basically did the final sanding since it gave it a really smooth and glossy finish. I then used turtle wax and got an almost mirror finish. No laquer involved.

If you like you should first test out what procedure you plan to try on a piece of scrap wood

[Hoopz]

Well either I did it wrong or it was lie since I even used a foam that was meant to do an "ultra smooth" finish.

That someone as Javeryh in your thread.  I quoted what he said and you argued about why it wouldn't work.  I highly doubt he was lying to you and it's pretty irresponsible that you would even suggest that someone would do that.  As everyone has said, his projects look outstanding.  Just because you couldn't get it to work doesn't mean someone was lying.  It probably means that someone didn't do it properly.

[shardian]

Well either I did it wrong or it was lie since I even used a foam that was meant to do an "ultra smooth" finish.

That someone as Javeryh in your thread.  I quoted what he said and you argued about why it wouldn't work.  I highly doubt he was lying to you and it's pretty irresponsible that you would even suggest that someone would do that.  As everyone has said, his projects look outstanding.  Just because you couldn't get it to work doesn't mean someone was lying.  It probably means that someone didn't do it properly.

If you press to hard or try to conserve paint, you will end up with bad coverage and roller strokes. Sometimes I feel like beating my wife with the roller when she tries to cover walls with an empty brush to keep from making a return trip to the paint pan.

[ChadTower]

If you press to hard or try to conserve paint, you will end up with bad coverage and roller strokes. Sometimes I feel like beating my wife with the roller when she tries to cover walls with an empty brush to keep from making a return trip to the paint pan.

I keep hearing people say that their wife/mother/sister/aunt has been seen painting.  I have yet to witness this phenomenon.  When my wife ever wants something painted she says she cannot do it and nags me until I do it.  Same with my mother.  My mother in law did zero of the entire house repaint they just did.  There is always some "reason" they can't.

I just can't believe everything I read on the innernets.

[Level42]

My wife paints usualy.

But I made the big mistake of painting the inside of my Galaxian black (and the top inner parts white) and now she says I'm better at it then she is.......damn stupid me !

[Afterburner]

Hehe...both my wife and mother-in-law are artists.  My MIL is professional and earns her living doing murals, etc.

My wife has done some lucrative side projects painting murals, etc.

But for that ultra-smooth, flawless finish, I do that painting.

One of these days I keep meaning to get my wife to paint some arcade artwork on my cab.

Another tip.....a good paint should run together just enough for the brush strokes to disappear.  Unfortunately, a lot of the paint companies make their paint extra thick for that "one coat" coverage.  Thin it out a little bit until the brush strokes disappear after a minute or so.  Then you'll have it about right.

[shardian]

I keep hearing people say that their wife/mother/sister/aunt has been seen painting.  I have yet to witness this phenomenon.  When my wife ever wants something painted she says she cannot do it and nags me until I do it.  Same with my mother.  My mother in law did zero of the entire house repaint they just did.  There is always some "reason" they can't.

I just can't believe everything I read on the innernets.

Yeah my wife paints and does a decent job. I keep an eye on her though. Funny story on that:
We were painting the basement 2 weeks ago and while painting the ceiling we had to work around the can lights. I had them pulled down as far as the baffle allows and she smacked the hell out of one with the roller. I got onto her and started to show her how to do it right. As I was showing her, I slipped and got paint on the baffle. She was on me like white on rice. Of course, I did it just to make her feel better you know...

[ChadTower]

Meh.  My wife always says it bothers her asthma to paint (not that she has ever tried).  Her brother and father have the same asthma, both worse, and do it all the time.  I have to strip the wallpaper in our bathroom in the very near future and I'd put serious dollars on her saying it again were I a betting man.

[Level42]

Wallpaper in a bathroom ? Interesting.....nothing but tiles here

We have a rule: If I'm doing, like wall-papering, she gets out of the house, and the other way around.

You know that you have been married (too?) long when you already KNOW before she gets back on what parts of the work she is going to critize......I hate that !

[javeryh]

HooPZ - thanks for the compliments!  The arcade still looks great and it's smooth as glass.  I did put 25 coats of lacquer on - sprayed out of a can (several of them actually) and I waited 20-30 minutes in between each coat and it was dry to the touch.  According to the manufacturer's instructions, the lacquer is ready for a recoat after 20 minutes and it took 10-14 days to fully cure so I just followed the instructions.  I waited a few weeks before sanding/polishing.  I'm not sure I'd do it again even though I LOVE the results (and so does everyone else who has seen it).  When my sister first came over and saw it she asked where I got the pink plastic to build the cabinet out of - she was fooled!  The next time I want a finish like this I'll probably laminate  unless it's for a custom joystick or something small.