Turnarcades website - up and half done!

[fatfingers]

When you find a website designer who is wanting a machine, hey presto! You are about to do a deal.

This sounds like great advice to me.

Good luck.

[Turnarcades]

I think I need to nip this thread in the bud now as the signals are getting very mixed. It seems people have very mixed opinions on how they like their pages to look and it's always hard to please everyone. I can take the criticism cos I've asked for it, but some are turning on other members. I'm sure if the big brands had sought opinions in such a public thread first a lot of them would have had a similar response. I've always believed in going with your gut instinct, so aside from some simplicity alterations to the graphical look, I'm continuing as is.

With regards to comments on my machine designs and customer confidence; design demands vary across region to region, country to country. Generally speaking, US cabs go with the theory that bigger is better, but the truth is that the majority of UK homes just can't accommodate large machines. One of my biggest praises so far from potential customers has been my designs. For one, you will not beat those prices in the UK. For custom builders we should be charging more as our cabs don't fall off a production line, and over 40 hours goes into every machine. £700 for a custom-made, complete cabinet compared to £1200 for an empty shell elsewhere with no monitor or PC? For two, people have praised the range of designs I offer, and the fact that I am breaking from the norm. There are only 4 admin buttons, then coin and start. A lot of people like this as most people customise their own and find them handy for jukeboxes etc. And no-one ever complains about bumping on them. Many UK cabs had start buttons on the front, and we never used to bash them by accident.

The reason there are concept photos is cos although we have not built some of the larger ones, we have plans prepped for when we do, and although we are a CUSTOM builders, sometimes people need to be given an idea of what is possible to prompt them. We started with no pictures at all, and no-one was scared off. The idea and price alone was enough to convince them of our ability. We may never build a Supreme, but people will always sit and wonder "what if I had this idea...what would be a ballpark figure?" and it saves my inbox from getting bombarded as it does now.

Well love us or hate us we're staying put, and I'll be quite happy as a 'Marmite' cabinet builder! People have their opinions and there is choice out there for everyone. I don't claim to be the best but we appeal to a certain percentage and that's fine by me. All I ever wanted to do with Turnarcades was offer like-minded gamers on a budget who don't have the time or skills to do their own some flexibility on choice, and that we have done.

Thanks to those offering constructive opinions and I will have a re-think over the weekend.

Oh, and those who saw through their soapbox and backed me up - see me for a discount!

[Space Fractal]

First, I have not read all posts here. So some might say it all ready:

BTW, why not use http://www.turnarcades.co.uk/TurnarcadesMain.htm as the main page, so it how the same design like the subpages (you can copy TurnarcadesMain.htm as index.htm as well and use same content)?


Otherwice in index.html:

- AXE the hitcounter. No Proffesional shop pages or other pages dosent need this type of hit counter anymor, due there is serber webstats out here.

- Use a   in the link section, so its dosen't break to two lines, then you can remove the widt tag in the table as well.  , which is a space make sure, it dosen't break into more lines and if you need more than one space.

Most notice in Cabinet Info, Products Links. I simply dosent like the table border change to (I also dosent like it on two lines, like some others.

- The purple main border dosent show correctly in Firefox (it can even been removed, even it actuelly very nice).



In subpages:

- Do not use the annoying tag, Marguee tags right for your logo. They are awfull and complety not need here. Use a bit smaller font instead or use 2 lines.

- Whould been nice to click on the top logo to bring back to main menu as well (but its up to you).

- The gray/blue bar, just under the logo, should been own graphics and use 100% in length, so it would use the whole length in a 1280x1024 resoulution.

- The white Body text in some pages is very small in Firefox (I havent looked in the html, why).


The design it self is also pretty 100% nice, just minor codning errors  .

[ark_ader]

The website is fine but your prices are very high.

Sorry!!! Are you and I looking at the same web site!!! His prices are very good. Have you priced a sheet of MDF in B&Q lately?? by the time you add the time taken to cut and rout it the price is quite low.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Don't be sorry Fozzy,   

I was going to do the same thing early last year, and had a business plan set up and was going to do exactly the same type of product.  I like smaller machines that can either be put away in a closet or as a focal feature in the gameroom or back living room.  The larger projects would be a waste of time.

I had access to a retired cabinet maker who had his own shop, and contacts for discounted lumber.  I had friends in the computer recycling business who could have supplied me with gear.  The guys at gremlinsolutions.co.uk were close by and had my parts.  (plug plug plug) 

Even Randy at Groovygamegear.com was going to get more business from me (sorry Randy).

I had my prices set a lot lower than turnarcades, and could still make a profit.  I made a small prototype cabinet that I wanted to sell to toy companies (similar to Jakks).  But unfortunately my life moved in a different direction and I gave the idea a miss.

I plan to do the same thing here in the US, and I see a more active market for quality cabs at reachable prices. 

So I can understand your point Fozzy, and I am glad you can afford one of those cabs and help make turnarcades flourish, but the prices will have to come down, especially if the gear is old P3s and not the latest and greatest for them to succeed in the long term. 

If its a hobby based business then I can see where they are going with it. 

Luxuries are the first to suffer when the economy is on the verge of a recession.

Again I wish them all the best, and I hope they prove me wrong.

[Fozzy The Bear]

So I can understand your point Fozzy, and I am glad you can afford one of those cabs and help make turnarcades flourish, but the prices will have to come down, especially if the gear is old P3s and not the latest and greatest for them to succeed in the long term.

I would be buying pre cut cab kits from him not complete machines, and in relation to the cost of those at £150 each that's a very good price. Take the cost of three sheets of 8' X 4' X 18mm MDF, add at least 20 hours of my time to cut it all out and this is a good price which nobody else in the UK is beating.  I can't order a cab kit from the USA because the shipping and import duty on it would be a killer. So this is still by far the cheapest deal in the UK right now.

I really don't see any reason why his prices should be lower, when he's already the cheapest supplier over here. The guy has to make a reasonable profit out of it, and any business that thinks it can survive on a lower margin than this is quite frankly kidding itself.

Don't forget that the market over here is significantly different to the USA and everything is more expensive. If I wanted to buy even a used generic cab over here I'd be looking at over £100 ($200 USD). That's not to say that I haven't dropped on some good deals sometimes and got complete machines for £40 or so, but that's not common and it's usually from people I know.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

 

[ark_ader]

So I can understand your point Fozzy, and I am glad you can afford one of those cabs and help make turnarcades flourish, but the prices will have to come down, especially if the gear is old P3s and not the latest and greatest for them to succeed in the long term.

I would be buying pre cut cab kits from him not complete machines, and in relation to the cost of those at £150 each that's a very good price. Take the cost of three sheets of 8' X 4' X 18mm MDF, add at least 20 hours of my time to cut it all out and this is a good price which nobody else in the UK is beating.  I can't order a cab kit from the USA because the shipping and import duty on it would be a killer. So this is still by far the cheapest deal in the UK right now.

I really don't see any reason why his prices should be lower, when he's already the cheapest supplier over here. The guy has to make a reasonable profit out of it, and any business that thinks it can survive on a lower margin than this is quite frankly kidding itself.

Don't forget that the market over here is significantly different to the USA and everything is more expensive. If I wanted to buy even a used generic cab over here I'd be looking at over £100 ($200 USD). That's not to say that I haven't dropped on some good deals sometimes and got complete machines for £40 or so, but that's not common and it's usually from people I know.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

 

Looking at that perspective I would agree to the cutting out wood and buying expensive MDF and B&Q. Sometimes B&Q will cut pieces for you but not to exact specifications.  Thus my point about the cabinet maker.  He can bang out the cuts in less time and in volume.

If you had a flat and no place to cut your wood, again the price can be attractive.

Its all in the numbers.  If I had a contact in Poland I bet I could get them cut cheaper and shipped, as most customer furniture manufacturers use countries where unemployment is quite high.  A job is a job, especially in rural Poland, even if the idea is sounding like exploitation.  The Sterling <-> Euro looks promising though.

Bad me. 

[paigeoliver]

A bit more advice relating to the rendered cabinets. If you want them there because they are possible then that is cool. Although I would really suggest a redesign on the smaller 4 player cabinet, and I would make a trackball standard on the biggest one. That is just too much panel not to have one, and anyone laying out that sort of dough isn't going to balk over the cost of a trackball.

Do a lot of the plasma sets over there have VGA ports on them? I know mine does. If so then you might want to add a showcase pedestal to your lineup that the user can just plug into their set. I ran that sort of setup at home for a long time.

[Turnarcades]

A bit more advice relating to the rendered cabinets. If you want them there because they are possible then that is cool. Although I would really suggest a redesign on the smaller 4 player cabinet, and I would make a trackball standard on the biggest one. That is just too much panel not to have one, and anyone laying out that sort of dough isn't going to balk over the cost of a trackball.

The design for the 'King' will remain as is. The concept picture is not exactly to scale, so some of the proportions may be out. The reason this design exists is because most standard internal UK door frames are barely 2' wide. As most people want them in their house, I have had much positive feedback about the design. Again, this is a concept - it gives people an idea and a ball-park figure. If they want a bigger cabinet, we will modify the design to suit.

Most ideas are flexible, and if someone wanted to haggle with custom designs I would and have done in the past to a small extent. After a couple of year's experience, I can say lot of UK buyers aren't that fussed with a trackball, but I would probably throw it in if they asked.

Do a lot of the plasma sets over there have VGA ports on them? I know mine does. If so then you might want to add a showcase pedestal to your lineup that the user can just plug into their set. I ran that sort of setup at home for a long time.

I've already got a design for a pedestal/projector, as well as the 'Box Arcade' already in the line-up, so this is already covered.

[FrizzleFried]

Minor suggestion...make your TURNCADES logo in your signature on this forum a clickable link so folks can click through to your website easily...

[Turnarcades]

Will do....

[ratzz]

Lots of good advice here from people about your website.

You can't just ignore the quality and build of your website if you're trying to persuade people to buy. They will only have your website to base their initial opinion about your products on. If your website looks shoddy, and poorly built, in my experience they may feel your products are built in a similar vain (I'm not saying they are).

Customer perception is vital because the 'back' button is too easily pressed. They may come back, but not after they've performed another search in Google and all the other top three or four (of which your site isn't indexed with any relevant keywords). You may also want to consider registering a sitemap with Google to improve results.

If you build a website, it doesn't mean that anyone will see it -- its a regular misconception. It takes ongoing work to index it to ensure it gets viewed and ultimately improve sales. Good content is also key as search engines use this to figure out what's in your site. META keywords mean very little anymore.

So here are my tips.

Review your site, and maybe start again.

You have fonts in your site that will not be viewable on all computers (Haettenschweiler) as they may not have them installed -- see websafe fonts for more information.

Remove the background and any other distractions, they don't add to your site's overall layout and make things look untidy.

Complete all pages text BEFORE uploading.

Remove the counter -- most people are aware that they can be set at any number you want, so they mean very little.

Other than that, look at your competitions sites and see how they have done things, this will help you keep up-to-date.

Good luck, and keep at it.

Ratzz 

[johnperkins21]

A bunch of good advice.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. Especially customer perception of the website. Sadly, he seems determined to go his own way. I commend him for the effort, and the drive to go for it, but his refusal to listen to spectacular advice is disheartening.

[ratzz]

A bunch of good advice.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. Especially customer perception of the website. Sadly, he seems determined to go his own way. I commend him for the effort, and the drive to go for it, but his refusal to listen to spectacular advice is disheartening.

Agreed ...

BTW, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with having good stats for your site -- its vital.

However - there are many free counters that are hidden from the surfer (much better) and offer a huge range of stats via a log-in control panel. You can see where they came from, how they found your site, where they went to afterwards, and even monitor size, browser details, operating system. This is really useful stuff for optimising your site, and making sure it's viewable to as many potential customers as possible.

Ratzz

[waveryder]

Customer Perception 101:
Amatuer website + Good Prices = Shoddy/Poor QUality Goods!

Take head of the advice. No one buys from back yard bussiness's. Well they do, but they dont know they are. You dont seriously think Ultimarc, GrooveyGamegear, Arcades R Fun, etc. work out of giant warehouses do you. It all about the perception your customers have of you and your product. Your getting a ton of free advice, which frankly any freelance designer or corporation would charge you a Sh**load for. Take some good advice before you make a huge mistake. My £0.02

[ratzz]

Your getting a ton of free advice, which frankly any freelance designer or corporation would charge you a Sh**load for. Take some good advice before you make a huge mistake. My £0.02

I am a freelance / self-employed designer (website and ecommerce) and am happy to give out free advice for guys here who maybe strugging with the traps of website design.

I've had great advice recently regarding my arcade project, and I'm glad to be able to give something back to the community.

Ratzz 

[waveryder]

Your getting a ton of free advice, which frankly any freelance designer or corporation would charge you a Sh**load for. Take some good advice before you make a huge mistake. My £0.02

I am a freelance / self-employed designer (website and ecommerce) and am happy to give out free advice for guys here who maybe strugging with the traps of website design.

I've had great advice recently regarding my arcade project, and I'm glad to be able to give something back to the community.

Ratzz 

Thats great Ratzz, Kudos on the freebies. But you've missed the point. My comment hasn't got anything to do with your choice to give advice on the forums, isnt that what everyone does?. It has to do with samshaw946's seeming inability to take good advice.

[ratzz]

You can lead a horse ... bla, bla, bla

[Turnarcades]

I've asked for constructive criticism of the site and said I would take heed. I've taken things on board that I have not mentioned here (I'm not answerable to anyone) and what changes I do will take time to implement.

Covering so many aspects takes time when you are doing it by yourself, and when you are physically restricted as I am. I have been civilised in my responses and been open to peoples suggestions, but people are getting too personal and carrying it over into other threads. I know that forums can be like this and hence I leave people to their opinion, so please don't get defensive if one of your suggestions is not carried forward. Like I've said before, it won't happen overnight.

If you don't like something, just state it civilly. Please don't keep on and cracking remarks. At least I'm attempting to build something here, and we all have to start somewhere. I'm not asking you all to be customers, but I respect your opinions, so please respect me.

[TheShanMan]

One suggestion I haven't seen yet: on the images of finished cabs, make them clickable to see a high resolution image. It would be reassuring to zoom in and see the level of detail that will illustrate the quality of your cabs.

[Banditt]

I got bored and created a sample template. Obviously it's not perfect but it:
- allows for spotlight articles on the right,
- has a major content area
- Clean navigation
- SEO friendly

[Turnarcades]

Very nice bandit. This was kind of where I was going with my redesign, and salvages quite a lot of what I'd like to keep whilst making it presentable. Please PM me.

[spacies]

Now thats what I am talking about.
Nice work on that site Banditt.

Turnacades already knows they need better photos so Sam, make time for this, it is very important for your website and any business that is done through it.

Oh, as for the Space Invaders replica I posted earlier, it takes me a 2-3 days to build one.

Forums can be harsh, but you asked for input and you got it. Take it and move forward.

Time management is the hardest thing about self employment. I am also a one man band. I market, build, do the art, deliver, do accounts, website updates, drink the beer, play (oops) I meant 'test' the machines. Its very difficult. LOL.

If nothing else, you have probably gained a lot of interest. Thats the marketing taken care of. Got any beer?

[vertygo]

There are so many really nice, css based templates out there, why not use one of those ? I have a few links if you want, pm me.

Also, keep in mind some search engine optimization ideas if you want to show up in google, yahoo, etc.

Code: [Select]

<META NAME="Description" CONTENT="Describe your webpage here" />
Title tags should be pretty keyword rich..
ie.

Code: [Select]

Turnarcades - Cabinet Info
Turnarcades UK - Custom Arcade Cabinet Info
and

Code: [Select]

Turnarcades - Examples
Turnarcades UK - Examples of Custom Arcade Cabinet Builds
(I'm not feeling very creative, but you get the idea)

Also, I'd suggest using ALT tags for all your images

Code: [Select]

img src = " ..." alt = "Custom Mini Arcade Cabinets - MAME" etc.
that way anyone searching google images for arcade cabs might come across your pics, etc.

A sitemap is essential as well, even if you don't update your content that often. Head to http://www.google.com/webmasters to submit it and use their other tools (need to sign in/up)

submit your sitemap to MSN
http://search.msn.com.my/docs/submit.aspx

submit your sitemap to yahoo
http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/

Based on your domain, .co.uk - you won't have to worry about country specific stuff, they'll just know.

Also, in-bound links (people linking to you) are really important.. so hopefully everyone on this forum with a webpage will link to you

Cheers!

[ratzz]

I've asked for constructive criticism of the site

.
.
.
.
.

If you don't like something, just state it civilly. Please don't keep on and cracking remarks. At least I'm attempting to build something here, and we all have to start somewhere. I'm not asking you all to be customers, but I respect your opinions, so please respect me.

I think you got constructive criticism didn't you? It's learning to take it that's your problem.

You also got professional advice about your site. From your response, it doesn't look like you want it though. There's no need to get so defensive about what people of said. I did not say that you HAD to take my advice, I just offered you advice - FREE advice.

I don't mind people telling me my cab is crap, if they tell me how to fix it. That's all I did with your site - quite frankly, I won't offer you any more.

You need to relax a little and not take things so personally.

A quick, kind "Thank-you" would have sufficed, even if you're thinking "get stuffed" (and, no, don't bother!).

[zombie_arcades]

Hi Craig,

Glad you're back on your feet again and moving ahead with Turnarcades. In case you're wondering who I am... I came to visit you late last year about the possibility of you working with me on taking arcade machines to the retail market. Things didn't work out but I am glad you're well again and fulfilling your dream of becoming a full time arcade machine builder.

Things are moving along nicely with me too, and my first machine will be ready within the next week. There has been so much to do but the end result should be well worth it. I'm aiming for the higher end of the market, and I believe you're aiming for the low - mid range of the market. I think you've got a great product there at a great price. Personally, I wouldn't offer so many options, but that's just me.

Don't take things to heart on here buddy. 99% of what's said on the internet would never be said face-to-face. The internet removes everyones inhibitions and you just have to allow for that.

Overall, this is a fantastic forum with like minded people.

Take it easy,

Kevin
Zombie Arcades

[ratzz]

99% of what's said on the internet would never be said face-to-face.

WRONG!

Oh, and welcome -- nice introduction!

[Turnarcades]

Hi Kev, glad to know it's all going ahead.

I'm making a good recovery thank you. Unfortunately I couldn't commit to the project back then due to my circumstances but I'm glad you carried it forward as planned.

I've now taken on several assistants and am carrying on as I started out, aiming more at the middle-market. This works out well as the direction I went for was more with the custom aspect, hence the options available.

I will be happy to add you as a link to the Turnarcades website 2.0 (coming soon!)

[ratzz]

I will be happy to add you as a link to the Turnarcades website 2.0 (coming soon!)

Sorry Craig, I thought I'd never write on this thread again.

But please tell me the thinking behind putting a UK competitor's link on your site. Even if you aim for different markets, you don't want one of your potential customers to view Kevin's site and think "You know, I like his better!" What is your logic?

This is BASIC stuff Craig -- I am keenly looking forward to TurnArcades 2.0, lets hope it doesn't end up being another version 1.0!! 

[Turnarcades]

You don't know how me and Kevin spoke, so you wouldn't get it.

As for the website, I'll take it you won't be accepting the offer I was about to put to you then.....

[ark_ader]

Looking at your website I noticed something obvious.  The Green on Blue buttons do not work. I suggest using a thinner font and use a mustard yellow colour, as it is easier on the eyes.

Also I would take down your website until it is finished.

Nothing worse than having a unfinished and dodgy website, to infer that your products are dodgy too.

I would lose the larger projects and drop the prices on the finished products (yes I'm repeating myself) and you should have the community knocking on your door.

Good luck with the site and your venture, even though the economy will be a difficult hurdle for you, I see some good ideas. 

[Turnarcades]

The website is having a total overhaul but things are a bit demanding at the moment with my other job.

Right now the site is generating a lot of requests and e-mails, so I will keep it up in it's current state as a temporary solution, although I'm now unhappy with the way it looks.

There's no point losing the larger products, as it doesn't do any harm them being there. It's better to offer them and show we can do them to the few who are after that. The more we can offer the better, as we are a custom outfit after all. I'm not just looking to knock out a few 2-player cabs for a quick raise, I'm trying to appeal to those who have a more specific idea of what they want.

I have price-checked the cabinets, and they are the best around so they will remain as is.

The biggest thing here is the re-design, which is coming. The one thing I never really accounted for was the way the site can vary in appearance from browse to browser. Besides the overly colourful look, that's what inspired the re-write.

[ratzz]

You don't know how me and Kevin spoke, so you wouldn't get it.

As for the website, I'll take it you won't be accepting the offer I was about to put to you then.....

What's there to get?

When was the last time you saw driving instructions in Tescos to the local Sainsburys? Or in B&Q to Homebase? Hmm ... wonder why they wouldn't do that, and I wonder why Kevin would bite your hand off for a link?

And no, you couldn't afford me .... 

[shock_]

Good luck with the new site build!  Building quality websites, like cabs, is much harder than it looks.  Especially if it's not your day job.

Here's another free tip - and it's got nothing to do with your current site. 

You mentioned cross-browser testing was something you were looking at improving this time around.  May I suggest you check out browsershots.org, a website that will take a URL you provide, display it in a bunch of browsers/operating systems/screen widths etc.  Takes a while for all the variants to arrive (eg 30 minutes), but can be very interesting and heaps cheaper than trying to set up and run those tests yourself!

Once you've got a page of the new site all ready, publish it to your webspace (but don't link to it from any of your current pages, else or those nasty Googlebots will find it, and ruin your secret launch!).  Then you've got a URL to test with.

nb- you can bookmark the results page as soon as you request it, then come back and load it again later in the day.

Here's some I prepared earlier so you can see what I mean.
http://browsershots.org/http://www.turnarcades.co.uk/TurnarcadesExamples.htm

 

[Turnarcades]

Thanks very much for that, shock; This is an excellent solution. I'm currently working with someone on re-shaping the website in general and maybe adding some flash. Even though this guy knows his stuff now, this will come in handy when it comes to site maintenance in the future. 

Not sure how long it's gonna take, but the response I've been getting so far from ebay customers linking to the site is very good, even as it stands now. Hopefully once I integrate a checkout and quote builder, this will alleviate my e-mail load and finish the site off a lot better.

[ratzz]

I am really looking forward to see this project ... Let us know when it's up and running!

[Blanka]

Yeah, my first thought too: get rid of the renderings. Even for renderings they are bad. What did you do? Stretch images in perspective with photoshop? Most Sketchup DIY plans on this site look better.

And professionalise everything. You can add 100 bucks to sales prices easy if every thing does not look this tacky. Start with cleaning up your Avatar. You're in business now
- Good product photography
- Clean W3C compliant website without moving objects or flash
- Higher pricing