Author Topic: Turnarcades website - up and half done! (Read 12845 times)

Turnarcades · « **on:** February 06, 2008, 06:07:50 pm »

Hi all

The Turnarcades website is now half-built and found at www.turnarcades.co.uk.
Although only half done. I'd like people to check it out, let me know what they think of the overall look and let me know what they think. I've tried to keep it visually striking but keeping the pages and info in a logical order and leaving out java and animations to allow the fairly rich html content to load faster.

I am already planning to change the buttons as they are a little garish and hard to read, and I'm looking to trade some links with people. If you are a vendor or have a relevant site or small home operation and would like me to add you to my links and vice versa, let me know here, by pm or by mailing to craig@turnarcades.co.uk and I will sort it out.

I'm also looking for new partners and referrers for mutual benefit. If you can supply parts, artwork, or unique features, whether you are large scale or small, let me know and maybe we can work something out. In particular I am seeking a distributer who can arrange UK and European delivery at a reasonable price, and parts vendors who would trade advertising space for discounts. We are still a relatively small operation but our poularity is fast growing!

Cheers

Craig@Turnarcades

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2008, 06:16:19 pm »

Quote from: samshaw946 on February 06, 2008, 06:07:50 pm

The Turnarcades website is now half-built and found at www.turnarcades.co.uk.

Well done Craig..... I like your prices, I can see me actually ordering a cabinet kit at some point. I've got a couple of projects that would fit well in one of those. Is the UK shipping cost on them good??

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2008, 06:30:04 pm »

I agree. Well done. You have this well thought out!

~ DeLuSioNaL

Turnarcades · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2008, 06:30:29 pm »

Thanks Foz, our main aim has always been to keep prices lower than most. After a couple of years on ebay UK we virtually wiped out all other builders as they were doing crap JAMMA conversions or building from plans bought on licence, so cost nearly double what we were charging.

Our only current problem is the transportation arrangements. We have used a few couriers but as yet we have been unhappy with most. Customers tended to prefer to arrange their own or come and collect. We do a lot of deliveries ourself within a certain radius, which is lucky as we are in the Midlands so our range is good.

Glad you like the designs - there are loads of set cabinet designs which you will see over the next few days, and we can tailor even those set dimensions to suit your needs.

FhM · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2008, 07:03:39 pm »

I would look at a content management system if I were you. In the end it makes it a lot easier to manage your website and easily change the look of the whole site when you feel it needs updating.

Turnarcades · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2008, 07:18:24 pm »

There's no real need as once it's up in full, it will receive only minor edits for the foreseeable. The navigation is simple and every page is unique, so I don't get lost easily when I program it anyway, but thanks for the suggestion.

When the time comes for overhaul I would probably change the lot anyway, but I can't see that yet.

leapinlew · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2008, 07:19:49 pm »

Looks good.

The examples page is where the real meat is, and if I were you, I'd take much better quality pictures of cabs. The current pics are kind of washed out (especially the marquees).

spacies · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2008, 07:35:49 pm »

Looks ok.

The links bar at the bottom needs work.
That is letting you down.

Turnarcades · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2008, 07:36:33 pm »

Ah yes - I'll be getting a better digital camera soon, but obviously photo opportunities are limited as I have a narrow window between completion and pick-up, so they will have to wait. The marquee washout is because of the marquee light and poor lighting conditions. Even photoshop couldn't improve it!

Turnarcades · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2008, 07:37:33 pm »

Which links bar exactly?

psychotech · « **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2008, 07:39:35 pm »

Well... You AXED for it

The http://www.turnarcades.co.uk/02%20-%20Turnarcades%20-%20Main.htm syntax/form/whatever might NOT work with all (or even the most) popular browsers ..
- Get rid of the spaces in the URLs ..just might get you more traffic and ..lots of more money

The MAIN page font: Oh sweet F:ing jZs
- The main text (body) actually is in bold ..and too small.. Really, change that as soon as possible! Lose the <b> and go with a slightly bigger normal text type..
- And, on some pages the main text is in bold typeface while on others it's plain.... I'd make all the texts one or the other ?
- The font size varies quite a lot between the pages .......
- So, it's all about continuity etc. ..

PS. Nice cabs

Turnarcades · « **Reply #11 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:18:25 pm »

I'm not looking to accomplish an 'A' in HTML grammar, so I'm not fussed about how tidy the code is. AllI'm concerned with is that it looks the way it does on screen. The differing text sizes from page to page is just down to the usage of space - some page styles might fit the text well, while others don't, so that's staying 'as is'.

Duly noted about the spaces in the URL's though - will try to correct that.

Worth saying at this point I'm not after awards for website construction and I'm a relative website novice, so to the pedants it might not be the neatest in terms of coding!

spacies · « **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2008, 09:38:45 pm »

Quote from: samshaw946 on February 06, 2008, 07:37:33 pm

Which links bar exactly?

This one:

I know you don't know much about websites but I think that either need to be thumbnails or down the left hand side. Looks very untidy at the mo'. Don't think I am being an ass, just my 2c.

BTW, great job on the cabs. Hope all goes well for you.

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2008, 09:49:47 pm »

Quote from: spacies on February 06, 2008, 09:38:45 pm

Actually I quite like that..... The style could do with being the same on every page though... That needs to go on every page not just the front one.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Turnarcades · « **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2008, 10:15:12 pm »

The reason I went for a different home page was to throw the logo and 'must-read' info in yer face. This was so you would read the brief before clicking away at the links as some casual browsers do. Mounting them at the bottom on this first page seemed to make sense. Seems however that hasn't worked so I will be re-thinking this idea. I've never liked horizontal link bars for some reason, so would like to keep the left-side menu. I don't think the info on the first page would look right on that type of page though so I don't know, I might just keep it and just stylise the horizontal link bar a bit better.

protokatie · « **Reply #15 on:** February 06, 2008, 10:22:00 pm »

Constructive criticism:

You might want to tone your page down quite a bit. As it is a bussiness page, I would recommend getting rid of all animations, and changing the page to have a solid neutral coloured background, and would suggest using a colour scheme for foreground objects (such as text, buttons etc) that isnt based on using every primary and secondary colour.

Just my thoughts. When I first opened you page I thought it was some kind of myspace or geocities type page, and then only after looking at the content realised it was a bussiness page. (For a good ref, look at Ultimarc's page, although not the best to navigate it looks clean and professional)

quarterback · « **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2008, 10:23:10 pm »

Quote from: spacies on February 06, 2008, 09:38:45 pm

Quote from: samshaw946 on February 06, 2008, 07:37:33 pm
Which links bar exactly?

This one:

While it looks amateurish on spacies screencap, it looks even worse on my screen. It's barely legible with all the letters smearing into each other.

Here it is at 100%

And here's a closer look:

Seriously, what letters are these:

BTW: No offense intended, I like your cabs. Just constructive criticism.

spacies · « **Reply #17 on:** February 06, 2008, 10:55:54 pm »

Hey Quarterback, how did you view it like that?
Do you have a big widescreen? I am looking at it via 15.4 widescreen laptop.

The main reason I didn't like the look because it is all bunched up, after seeing yours it looks better.

spacies · « **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2008, 11:02:58 pm »

Oh,
Try this: put the cursor on the edge of one of the links on the main page, mostly Products 1, 2 and 3. The picture shakes like its having a seizure. I tried to video it but my cameras refresh rate is too slow. Somethings not right there.

leapinlew · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2008, 11:06:03 pm »

Quote from: FhM on February 06, 2008, 07:03:39 pm

I would look at a content management system if I were you. In the end it makes it a lot easier to manage your website and easily change the look of the whole site when you feel it needs updating.

This is very very good advice Samshaw. You should leave this version you created in frontpage and start working on a new site very soon that uses some CMS. You'll love the clean look.

Here are some examples:
http://www.nusbaumdesigns.com/examples.html

If you want, I can put you in touch with a very reasonably priced person. Since you have all the content, your 2.0 version of your site could be created very quickly.

Like quarterback said, this is just creative criticism. Your site is functional and does the job. If your happy with it, thats all that matters.

brock.sampson · « **Reply #20 on:** February 07, 2008, 08:37:38 am »

When I click on any of the links I get a 404 page. I think you may need to correct your html. It's trying to go to for example Products 2 goes to http://www.turnarcades.co.uk/03%20-%20Turnarcades%20-%20Cabinet%20Info.htm.

quarterback · « **Reply #21 on:** February 07, 2008, 08:45:14 am »

Quote from: spacies on February 06, 2008, 10:55:54 pm

Hey Quarterback, how did you view it like that?
Do you have a big widescreen? I am looking at it via 15.4 widescreen laptop.

Yeah, I'm looking at it with a 22" monitor.

Quote

The main reason I didn't like the look because it is all bunched up, after seeing yours it looks better.

And I think you're correct about it being squished onto two lines, but I just also think the font that I'm seeing is way too bolded and mushed as well.

shardian · « **Reply #22 on:** February 07, 2008, 08:52:54 am »

Quote from: brock.sampson on February 07, 2008, 08:37:38 am

When I click on any of the links I get a 404 page. I think you may need to correct your html. It's trying to go to for example Products 2 goes to http://www.turnarcades.co.uk/03%20-%20Turnarcades%20-%20Cabinet%20Info.htm.

Same here.

waveryder · « **Reply #23 on:** February 07, 2008, 08:58:58 am »

As a bussiness website I think your way off track here. It looks like a user homepage rather than a bussiness website. As you want to create consumer confidence in your company I think you should rethink the layout and colour scheme. My £0.02

surface tension · « **Reply #24 on:** February 07, 2008, 10:37:46 am »

I know the situation you are in here, trying to do everything by yourself to save cash resources to use elsewhere. I'm UK-based in a similar boat, but not direct competition.

But, I have to agree with the comments on here. I don't want to belittle your efforts here, so I'll just list a few first impressions...

The marquee... That has to go.
Navigation links - Difficult to read.
Text - There's a whole mix of colours and sizes which hurt the head.
Background - Makes it look muddy

I also agree that you have some great cabs for sale at very good prices... if I find the room I could also see myself buying from you. Your products would look much better on a website fitting to them. Maybe take up someone's offer on here of linking you with a web-designer... mine has gone travelling for a few months so I won't suggest him.

Best of luck. If I see some common ground I'll drop you a mail.

RetroACTIVE · « **Reply #25 on:** February 07, 2008, 12:17:37 pm »

Quote from: waveryder on February 07, 2008, 08:58:58 am

As a bussiness website I think your way off track here. It looks like a user homepage rather than a bussiness website. As you want to create consumer confidence in your company I think you should rethink the layout and colour scheme. My £0.02

Similar thoughts as well... I think you would benefit by only showcasing "finished" products, with synthetic backgrounds (not the room/garage stuff) and keep the focus on the cabs... you have a nice offering ...so keep the viewer focused on that.

fixedpigs · « **Reply #26 on:** February 07, 2008, 12:28:04 pm »

or at least pay a professional photographer for a 'money shot' of each model(master/mini/bartop/etc)...then have snapshots that you take of projects that are variations of each model...

Turnarcades · « **Reply #27 on:** February 07, 2008, 01:55:07 pm »

Some interesting comments I will take on board.

I understand what people are saying about consumer confidence and professionalism but there's some things beyond reach at the moment. At the moment we are a relatively small scale operation. I know people refer to 'backyarders' like it's some kind of cheapskate thing, but that's exactly what we are. We operate from two small garden workshops and the main point of what we do is custom work.

This means that we do not knock out cabinets by the dozen, and so photo opportunities are few and far between. As for the look of professionalism, I am still considering a website overhaul for future purposes, but this will suffice for now. Right now we are targeting the middle-budget gamer who is not prepared to part with double the cash for a machine that does the same job. This group of people also tend to like a few more options and more of a personal sale than the factory jobs. So far this has been successful enough even without a website.

Eventually we are going to have to reach out to the average consuner but for now I'm just trying to give a focal point for our work for that same demographic.

Thanks for everyone's input and not being too hard on me - I know how some of you love that soap box!

Glad you like the cabinets anyway and keep checking in for further updates.

Craig

spacies · « **Reply #28 on:** February 07, 2008, 02:15:07 pm »

Craig,

I am also in the business of building machines.
I also work from home.
That doesn't stop me from cranking some high class machines as guys on here will vouch for.

Customers never need to see your workshop/shed but they do see your website. When/if you start marketing your business your website we be your most important asset.
Like Fixedpigs said, get some nice pics of your machines and photoshop/paint all the stuff out behind it. I know there are only 3 sunny days a year in the UK so when they roll around, use them! LOL.

Example:

I built this for a friend:

That pic was taken in his house.
I took the next shot lying on the floor, tweaked up the camera settings and 'shopped the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out around it and added some fake light.

Much better.

Oh, another tip. If you are talking to a customer face to face, make small talk and ask what they do for a job. When you find a website designer who is wanting a machine, hey presto! You are about to do a deal. That is what I did anyway, lol.

Keep truckin' dude.

Turnarcades · « **Reply #29 on:** February 07, 2008, 10:16:53 pm »

Nice work with PS. Unfortunately I won't be doing much lying down and taking photos as I'm disabled!

My workshop guys are good with tools but lame artisticly, so in the few minutes I get to look at a finished cabinet before shipping it out, I have to try and get a decent snap but it's not easy in the confined space they are stored in. Hopefully when my new workshop is finished and I fit the diffused lighting that should sort the problem.

Out of interest, how long did it take to build that Spacies replica? I've got a friend asking but I'm not going to do it if it takes up all of our time! Mates eh?

ark_ader · « **Reply #30 on:** February 07, 2008, 10:43:27 pm »

The website is fine but your prices are very high. Prohibitive in the current economy. Three years ago maybe but a cabinet for the same price as a PS3 is a tad high.

I would lose the many options and just sell them flat pack like Ikea. Get a cabinet maker to run you a bunch at a discount.

Something tells me that big is not so good in UK homes as space (it is for us up North) is premium.

I would just go for the Cabaret and a much smaller Bartop.

Other than that good work and good luck.

protokatie · « **Reply #31 on:** February 07, 2008, 10:55:01 pm »

Did a view of your source HTML, and modded it a TINY bit in Notepad. Basically, changed the colors to more nuetral, and got rid of the links changing to italics when moused over (which would cause the table they were in to change size)

This is basically the idea I was talking about. Much cleaner and a bit more professional looking.

This is a snapshot of my desktop with the slightly altered HTML.

Click here for a version that isnt so scaled down:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m105/protoplatapus/turnarcade.jpg

Sir Auros · « **Reply #32 on:** February 07, 2008, 10:55:16 pm »

I also think you should replace the navigation table at the bottom with an image map.

johnperkins21 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 08, 2008, 01:53:19 am »

Quote from: protokatie on February 07, 2008, 10:55:01 pm

Did a view of your source HTML, and modded it a TINY bit in Notepad. Basically, changed the colors to more nuetral, and got rid of the links changing to italics when moused over (which would cause the table they were in to change size)

This is basically the idea I was talking about. Much cleaner and a bit more professional looking.

This is a snapshot of my desktop with the slightly altered HTML.

I see you did a search for Yahtzee's Zero Punctuation reviews in there. I love that guy. Anyone who's a huge fan of Psychonauts is ok in my book.

On topic. I hate to say this Craig, but that website does not instill confidence. While it's definitely not fair, I do judge a business on the professionalism of their website. Whenever I'm looking for a local business, I always check their website. If it's really unprofessional, I move on. This site looks like it belongs on GeoCities man.

I'd highly suggest you look into toning it down a lot. Find a color scheme and stick to it. Use a consistent font size and style. Take a look at mameroom.com. You guys have a very similar business, but their website is much more professional looking. I'm sure they paid a pretty penny for it, and that has to be made up by charging higher prices, but I'm sure they get more business from having a really nice website than they would if it was really bad. The DreamArcades website isn't great, but it gets the job done with a very clean and consistent design (apart from the way too busy banner). ST's site at surface-tension.net is really excellent. He has a high end product, and the website reflects that.

I highly recommend you check out Ben Hunt's website: Web Design From Scratch. There's a lot of good info there to help get you started. Also please look at WebPagesThatSuck.com to get an idea of what not to do.

I don't intend to be harsh, but there's a reason that Dell and Apple don't have garish backgrounds and colors on their sites. Amazon.com is the most successful online retail vendor, part of that reason is given the millions of products on their site, it's still relatively easy to navigate and read. Take a few minutes to look at successful business websites and see if you can find things that they do well, that help you find what you're looking for and try to emulate (don't directly copy) them. I'd definitely get in touch with ST's designer if possible. That guy (or gal) did a really good job.

johnperkins21 · « **Reply #34 on:** February 08, 2008, 01:54:39 am »

Quote from: Sir Auros on February 07, 2008, 10:55:16 pm

I also think you should replace the navigation table at the bottom with an image map.

Noooooooooooo! Don't do it. Horrible, horrible idea. Never, ever, ever use an image map for navigation. Ever!

protokatie · « **Reply #35 on:** February 08, 2008, 02:03:45 am »

Quote

I see you did a search for Yahtzee's Zero Punctuation reviews in there. I love that guy. Anyone who's a huge fan of Psychonauts is ok in my book.

Unlike Fozzy the bear (who I turned on to Yahtzee) I have yet to bookmark him (even tho I was there during the "Yahtzee takes on the world" web comic, years back).

Also, I COULD make a simple (HTML only) web site for our guy here for free, one that could easily be modified and wouldnt look like a myspace page. I am limited in my HTML, but I do understand that a good web site is more about how it conveys its information, and not about how flashy and neat it looks.

johnperkins21 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 08, 2008, 02:20:36 am »

Quote from: protokatie on February 08, 2008, 02:03:45 am

Quote
I see you did a search for Yahtzee's Zero Punctuation reviews in there. I love that guy. Anyone who's a huge fan of Psychonauts is ok in my book.

Unlike Fozzy the bear (who I turned on to Yahtzee) I have yet to bookmark him (even tho I was there during the "Yahtzee takes on the world" web comic, years back).

Also, I COULD make a simple (HTML only) web site for our guy here for free, one that could easily be modified and wouldnt look like a myspace page. I am limited in my HTML, but I do understand that a good web site is more about how it conveys its information, and not about how flashy and neat it looks.

I offered up my services pro bono as well, and gave him links to some sample sites I've done. I'm nowhere near a designer either, but like you I understand that a simple, easy to navigate site is much more important than flashy graphics. My guess is he wants to do it himself, which I commend. But it looks like there's too much of his style in the site. It reminds of all those designed to sell shows on TV, where designers go into someone's house and say "this style may be great for you, but when you're trying to sell your house you need to appeal to as many people as possible." The same thing applies here. This is not a personal site, it's a business site and should look like one if he wants his customers to take him seriously.

I hate to sound like I'm being a dick, but I really believe that people underestimate the value of a quality website. I know I'm not the only person who goes to a website and immediately clicks the back button when it looks like a Myspace page.

protokatie · « **Reply #37 on:** February 08, 2008, 02:36:09 am »

Quote

I hate to sound like I'm being a dick, but I really believe that people underestimate the value of a quality website. I know I'm not the only person who goes to a website and immediately clicks the back button when it looks like a Myspace page.

Neither of us are being ---Deutsche Frankfurters---, we both want to see him succeed and we both want to help. Maybe now that there are two "pro bono" (ugh why does that make me think of something wrong) people willing to help him, he will change his mind and let one of us do so.

Additional note: I could just make a version of his site with a slightly different URL, and have all the links for ordering (IE his email) go to his site... Not like I would be profiting off of it, but he might... (Until they hit his page(s) that is)

*sighs* you are right tho, you cant fault someone for doing something themselves. In the end, that is how we all get things done....

paigeoliver · « **Reply #38 on:** February 08, 2008, 04:27:25 am »

Your main url should go to http://www.turnarcades.co.uk/TurnarcadesMain.htm and should have a picture of a machine on it. The first page you have now looks like a personal website. You might also want to decide if you are a we or a me, as your website is inconsistent about that.

All the pictures under cabinet info should go, they do more harm than good. Pictures of unfinished cabinets sitting out in your backyard or in your computer room totally breaks the company illusion that you are otherwise trying to create here.

Also, this has nothing to do with the website, but why do all your control panels have 8 admin buttons on the front of the panel where the user will invariably bump into them. That is a design flaw my friend and a huge one at that. I like the rest of your main design otherwise, it is very atari. Also, I know you are probably doing this to reduce costs, but the monitors on most of your machines are too small. A 21" computer monitor is the same size as a 19" arcade monitor.

I would also suggest getting rid of those renderings of "the cocktail" "the king" and "the supreme". It makes it really obvious that you have never actually built those machines and no one wants to order the first one.

Also, for "The king" I suggest closely examining pictures of american 4 player cabinets, as yours closely resembles a Defender cabinet with a homemade frankenpanel grafted on. Pay close attention to the design of the control panel itself and how it interacts with the rest of the machine. I would also REALLY suggest that you don't sell a 4 players cabinet without a 25" monitor in it.

The supreme. Why does this have a widescreen display? No arcade games did, and thus everything will be wrong, 100 percent of games will be wrong. On the plus side the control panel looks pretty much spot-on. May want to examine some american showcase cabinets for the rear section though, as your design looks more complex than needed and is sort of funny looking.

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #39 on:** February 08, 2008, 06:04:08 am »

Quote from: ark_ader on February 07, 2008, 10:43:27 pm

The website is fine but your prices are very high.

Sorry!!! Are you and I looking at the same web site!!! His prices are very good. Have you priced a sheet of MDF in B&Q lately?? by the time you add the time taken to cut and rout it the price is quite low.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

fatfingers · « **Reply #40 on:** February 08, 2008, 07:38:00 am »

Quote from: spacies on February 07, 2008, 02:15:07 pm

When you find a website designer who is wanting a machine, hey presto! You are about to do a deal.

This sounds like great advice to me.

Good luck.

Turnarcades · « **Reply #41 on:** February 08, 2008, 07:47:07 am »

I think I need to nip this thread in the bud now as the signals are getting very mixed. It seems people have very mixed opinions on how they like their pages to look and it's always hard to please everyone. I can take the criticism cos I've asked for it, but some are turning on other members. I'm sure if the big brands had sought opinions in such a public thread first a lot of them would have had a similar response. I've always believed in going with your gut instinct, so aside from some simplicity alterations to the graphical look, I'm continuing as is.

With regards to comments on my machine designs and customer confidence; design demands vary across region to region, country to country. Generally speaking, US cabs go with the theory that bigger is better, but the truth is that the majority of UK homes just can't accommodate large machines. One of my biggest praises so far from potential customers has been my designs. For one, you will not beat those prices in the UK. For custom builders we should be charging more as our cabs don't fall off a production line, and over 40 hours goes into every machine. £700 for a custom-made, complete cabinet compared to £1200 for an empty shell elsewhere with no monitor or PC? For two, people have praised the range of designs I offer, and the fact that I am breaking from the norm. There are only 4 admin buttons, then coin and start. A lot of people like this as most people customise their own and find them handy for jukeboxes etc. And no-one ever complains about bumping on them. Many UK cabs had start buttons on the front, and we never used to bash them by accident.

The reason there are concept photos is cos although we have not built some of the larger ones, we have plans prepped for when we do, and although we are a CUSTOM builders, sometimes people need to be given an idea of what is possible to prompt them. We started with no pictures at all, and no-one was scared off. The idea and price alone was enough to convince them of our ability. We may never build a Supreme, but people will always sit and wonder "what if I had this idea...what would be a ballpark figure?" and it saves my inbox from getting bombarded as it does now.

Well love us or hate us we're staying put, and I'll be quite happy as a 'Marmite' cabinet builder! People have their opinions and there is choice out there for everyone. I don't claim to be the best but we appeal to a certain percentage and that's fine by me. All I ever wanted to do with Turnarcades was offer like-minded gamers on a budget who don't have the time or skills to do their own some flexibility on choice, and that we have done.

Thanks to those offering constructive opinions and I will have a re-think over the weekend.

Oh, and those who saw through their soapbox and backed me up - see me for a discount!

Space Fractal · « **Reply #42 on:** February 08, 2008, 09:07:08 am »

First, I have not read all posts here. So some might say it all ready:

BTW, why not use http://www.turnarcades.co.uk/TurnarcadesMain.htm as the main page, so it how the same design like the subpages (you can copy TurnarcadesMain.htm as index.htm as well and use same content)?

Otherwice in index.html:

- AXE the hitcounter. No Proffesional shop pages or other pages dosent need this type of hit counter anymor, due there is serber webstats out here.

- Use a   in the link section, so its dosen't break to two lines, then you can remove the widt tag in the table as well.  , which is a space make sure, it dosen't break into more lines and if you need more than one space.

Most notice in Cabinet Info, Products Links. I simply dosent like the table border change to (I also dosent like it on two lines, like some others.

- The purple main border dosent show correctly in Firefox (it can even been removed, even it actuelly very nice).

In subpages:

- Do not use the annoying tag, Marguee tags right for your logo. They are awfull and complety not need here. Use a bit smaller font instead or use 2 lines.

- Whould been nice to click on the top logo to bring back to main menu as well (but its up to you).

- The gray/blue bar, just under the logo, should been own graphics and use 100% in length, so it would use the whole length in a 1280x1024 resoulution.

- The white Body text in some pages is very small in Firefox (I havent looked in the html, why).

The design it self is also pretty 100% nice, just minor codning errors

.

ark_ader · « **Reply #43 on:** February 08, 2008, 05:10:59 pm »

Quote from: Fozzy The Bear on February 08, 2008, 06:04:08 am

Quote from: ark_ader on February 07, 2008, 10:43:27 pm
The website is fine but your prices are very high.

Sorry!!! Are you and I looking at the same web site!!! His prices are very good. Have you priced a sheet of MDF in B&Q lately?? by the time you add the time taken to cut and rout it the price is quite low.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Don't be sorry Fozzy,

I was going to do the same thing early last year, and had a business plan set up and was going to do exactly the same type of product. I like smaller machines that can either be put away in a closet or as a focal feature in the gameroom or back living room. The larger projects would be a waste of time.

I had access to a retired cabinet maker who had his own shop, and contacts for discounted lumber. I had friends in the computer recycling business who could have supplied me with gear. The guys at gremlinsolutions.co.uk were close by and had my parts. (plug plug plug)

Even Randy at Groovygamegear.com was going to get more business from me (sorry Randy).

I had my prices set a lot lower than turnarcades, and could still make a profit. I made a small prototype cabinet that I wanted to sell to toy companies (similar to Jakks). But unfortunately my life moved in a different direction and I gave the idea a miss.

I plan to do the same thing here in the US, and I see a more active market for quality cabs at reachable prices.

So I can understand your point Fozzy, and I am glad you can afford one of those cabs and help make turnarcades flourish, but the prices will have to come down, especially if the gear is old P3s and not the latest and greatest for them to succeed in the long term.

If its a hobby based business then I can see where they are going with it.

Luxuries are the first to suffer when the economy is on the verge of a recession.

Again I wish them all the best, and I hope they prove me wrong.

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #44 on:** February 08, 2008, 08:55:50 pm »

Quote from: ark_ader on February 08, 2008, 05:10:59 pm

So I can understand your point Fozzy, and I am glad you can afford one of those cabs and help make turnarcades flourish, but the prices will have to come down, especially if the gear is old P3s and not the latest and greatest for them to succeed in the long term.

I would be buying pre cut cab kits from him not complete machines, and in relation to the cost of those at £150 each that's a very good price. Take the cost of three sheets of 8' X 4' X 18mm MDF, add at least 20 hours of my time to cut it all out and this is a good price which nobody else in the UK is beating. I can't order a cab kit from the USA because the shipping and import duty on it would be a killer. So this is still by far the cheapest deal in the UK right now.

I really don't see any reason why his prices should be lower, when he's already the cheapest supplier over here. The guy has to make a reasonable profit out of it, and any business that thinks it can survive on a lower margin than this is quite frankly kidding itself.

Don't forget that the market over here is significantly different to the USA and everything is more expensive. If I wanted to buy even a used generic cab over here I'd be looking at over £100 ($200 USD). That's not to say that I haven't dropped on some good deals sometimes and got complete machines for £40 or so, but that's not common and it's usually from people I know.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

ark_ader · « **Reply #45 on:** February 09, 2008, 02:45:13 am »

Quote from: Fozzy The Bear on February 08, 2008, 08:55:50 pm

Quote from: ark_ader on February 08, 2008, 05:10:59 pm
So I can understand your point Fozzy, and I am glad you can afford one of those cabs and help make turnarcades flourish, but the prices will have to come down, especially if the gear is old P3s and not the latest and greatest for them to succeed in the long term.

I would be buying pre cut cab kits from him not complete machines, and in relation to the cost of those at £150 each that's a very good price. Take the cost of three sheets of 8' X 4' X 18mm MDF, add at least 20 hours of my time to cut it all out and this is a good price which nobody else in the UK is beating. I can't order a cab kit from the USA because the shipping and import duty on it would be a killer. So this is still by far the cheapest deal in the UK right now.

I really don't see any reason why his prices should be lower, when he's already the cheapest supplier over here. The guy has to make a reasonable profit out of it, and any business that thinks it can survive on a lower margin than this is quite frankly kidding itself.

Don't forget that the market over here is significantly different to the USA and everything is more expensive. If I wanted to buy even a used generic cab over here I'd be looking at over £100 ($200 USD). That's not to say that I haven't dropped on some good deals sometimes and got complete machines for £40 or so, but that's not common and it's usually from people I know.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Looking at that perspective I would agree to the cutting out wood and buying expensive MDF and B&Q. Sometimes B&Q will cut pieces for you but not to exact specifications. Thus my point about the cabinet maker. He can bang out the cuts in less time and in volume.

If you had a flat and no place to cut your wood, again the price can be attractive.

Its all in the numbers. If I had a contact in Poland I bet I could get them cut cheaper and shipped, as most customer furniture manufacturers use countries where unemployment is quite high. A job is a job, especially in rural Poland, even if the idea is sounding like exploitation. The Sterling <-> Euro looks promising though.

Bad me.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #46 on:** February 09, 2008, 03:01:54 am »

A bit more advice relating to the rendered cabinets. If you want them there because they are possible then that is cool. Although I would really suggest a redesign on the smaller 4 player cabinet, and I would make a trackball standard on the biggest one. That is just too much panel not to have one, and anyone laying out that sort of dough isn't going to balk over the cost of a trackball.

Do a lot of the plasma sets over there have VGA ports on them? I know mine does. If so then you might want to add a showcase pedestal to your lineup that the user can just plug into their set. I ran that sort of setup at home for a long time.

Turnarcades · « **Reply #47 on:** February 09, 2008, 10:00:19 am »

Quote

A bit more advice relating to the rendered cabinets. If you want them there because they are possible then that is cool. Although I would really suggest a redesign on the smaller 4 player cabinet, and I would make a trackball standard on the biggest one. That is just too much panel not to have one, and anyone laying out that sort of dough isn't going to balk over the cost of a trackball.

The design for the 'King' will remain as is. The concept picture is not exactly to scale, so some of the proportions may be out. The reason this design exists is because most standard internal UK door frames are barely 2' wide. As most people want them in their house, I have had much positive feedback about the design. Again, this is a concept - it gives people an idea and a ball-park figure. If they want a bigger cabinet, we will modify the design to suit.

Most ideas are flexible, and if someone wanted to haggle with custom designs I would and have done in the past to a small extent. After a couple of year's experience, I can say lot of UK buyers aren't that fussed with a trackball, but I would probably throw it in if they asked.

Quote

Do a lot of the plasma sets over there have VGA ports on them? I know mine does. If so then you might want to add a showcase pedestal to your lineup that the user can just plug into their set. I ran that sort of setup at home for a long time.

I've already got a design for a pedestal/projector, as well as the 'Box Arcade' already in the line-up, so this is already covered.

FrizzleFried · « **Reply #48 on:** February 09, 2008, 02:45:26 pm »

Minor suggestion...make your TURNCADES logo in your signature on this forum a clickable link so folks can click through to your website easily...

Turnarcades · « **Reply #49 on:** February 09, 2008, 05:57:32 pm »

Will do....

ratzz · « **Reply #50 on:** February 10, 2008, 07:22:52 am »

Lots of good advice here from people about your website.

You can't just ignore the quality and build of your website if you're trying to persuade people to buy. They will only have your website to base their initial opinion about your products on. If your website looks shoddy, and poorly built, in my experience they may feel your products are built in a similar vain (I'm not saying they are).

Customer perception is vital because the 'back' button is too easily pressed. They may come back, but not after they've performed another search in Google and all the other top three or four (of which your site isn't indexed with any relevant keywords). You may also want to consider registering a sitemap with Google to improve results.

If you build a website, it doesn't mean that anyone will see it -- its a regular misconception. It takes ongoing work to index it to ensure it gets viewed and ultimately improve sales. Good content is also key as search engines use this to figure out what's in your site. META keywords mean very little anymore.

So here are my tips.

Review your site, and maybe start again.

You have fonts in your site that will not be viewable on all computers (Haettenschweiler) as they may not have them installed -- see websafe fonts for more information.

Remove the background and any other distractions, they don't add to your site's overall layout and make things look untidy.

Complete all pages text BEFORE uploading.

Remove the counter -- most people are aware that they can be set at any number you want, so they mean very little.

Other than that, look at your competitions sites and see how they have done things, this will help you keep up-to-date.

Good luck, and keep at it.

Ratzz

johnperkins21 · « **Reply #51 on:** February 10, 2008, 07:34:33 pm »

Quote from: ratzz on February 10, 2008, 07:22:52 am

A bunch of good advice.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. Especially customer perception of the website. Sadly, he seems determined to go his own way. I commend him for the effort, and the drive to go for it, but his refusal to listen to spectacular advice is disheartening.

ratzz · « **Reply #52 on:** February 11, 2008, 05:00:40 am »

Quote from: johnperkins21 on February 10, 2008, 07:34:33 pm

Quote from: ratzz on February 10, 2008, 07:22:52 am
A bunch of good advice.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. Especially customer perception of the website. Sadly, he seems determined to go his own way. I commend him for the effort, and the drive to go for it, but his refusal to listen to spectacular advice is disheartening.

Agreed ...

BTW, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with having good stats for your site -- its vital.

However - there are many free counters that are hidden from the surfer (much better) and offer a huge range of stats via a log-in control panel. You can see where they came from, how they found your site, where they went to afterwards, and even monitor size, browser details, operating system. This is really useful stuff for optimising your site, and making sure it's viewable to as many potential customers as possible.

Ratzz

waveryder · « **Reply #53 on:** February 11, 2008, 05:24:06 am »

Customer Perception 101:
Amatuer website + Good Prices = Shoddy/Poor QUality Goods!

Take head of the advice. No one buys from back yard bussiness's. Well they do, but they dont know they are. You dont seriously think Ultimarc, GrooveyGamegear, Arcades R Fun, etc. work out of giant warehouses do you. It all about the perception your customers have of you and your product. Your getting a ton of free advice, which frankly any freelance designer or corporation would charge you a Sh**load for. Take some good advice before you make a huge mistake. My £0.02

ratzz · « **Reply #54 on:** February 11, 2008, 05:46:47 am »

Quote from: waveryder on February 11, 2008, 05:24:06 am

Your getting a ton of free advice, which frankly any freelance designer or corporation would charge you a Sh**load for. Take some good advice before you make a huge mistake. My £0.02

I am a freelance / self-employed designer (website and ecommerce) and am happy to give out free advice for guys here who maybe strugging with the traps of website design.

I've had great advice recently regarding my arcade project, and I'm glad to be able to give something back to the community.

Ratzz

waveryder · « **Reply #55 on:** February 11, 2008, 10:24:09 am »

Quote from: ratzz on February 11, 2008, 05:46:47 am

Quote from: waveryder on February 11, 2008, 05:24:06 am
Your getting a ton of free advice, which frankly any freelance designer or corporation would charge you a Sh**load for. Take some good advice before you make a huge mistake. My £0.02

I am a freelance / self-employed designer (website and ecommerce) and am happy to give out free advice for guys here who maybe strugging with the traps of website design.

I've had great advice recently regarding my arcade project, and I'm glad to be able to give something back to the community.

Ratzz

Thats great Ratzz, Kudos on the freebies. But you've missed the point. My comment hasn't got anything to do with your choice to give advice on the forums, isnt that what everyone does?. It has to do with samshaw946's seeming inability to take good advice.

ratzz · « **Reply #56 on:** February 12, 2008, 07:12:39 am »

You can lead a horse ... bla, bla, bla

Turnarcades · « **Reply #57 on:** February 12, 2008, 08:17:13 am »

I've asked for constructive criticism of the site and said I would take heed. I've taken things on board that I have not mentioned here (I'm not answerable to anyone) and what changes I do will take time to implement.

Covering so many aspects takes time when you are doing it by yourself, and when you are physically restricted as I am. I have been civilised in my responses and been open to peoples suggestions, but people are getting too personal and carrying it over into other threads. I know that forums can be like this and hence I leave people to their opinion, so please don't get defensive if one of your suggestions is not carried forward. Like I've said before, it won't happen overnight.

If you don't like something, just state it civilly. Please don't keep on and cracking remarks. At least I'm attempting to build something here, and we all have to start somewhere. I'm not asking you all to be customers, but I respect your opinions, so please respect me.

TheShanMan · « **Reply #58 on:** February 12, 2008, 12:09:02 pm »

One suggestion I haven't seen yet: on the images of finished cabs, make them clickable to see a high resolution image. It would be reassuring to zoom in and see the level of detail that will illustrate the quality of your cabs.

Banditt · « **Reply #59 on:** February 12, 2008, 01:11:19 pm »

I got bored and created a sample template. Obviously it's not perfect but it:
- allows for spotlight articles on the right,
- has a major content area
- Clean navigation
- SEO friendly

Turnarcades · « **Reply #60 on:** February 12, 2008, 03:00:58 pm »

Very nice bandit. This was kind of where I was going with my redesign, and salvages quite a lot of what I'd like to keep whilst making it presentable. Please PM me.

spacies · « **Reply #61 on:** February 12, 2008, 03:34:10 pm »

Now thats what I am talking about.
Nice work on that site Banditt.

Turnacades already knows they need better photos so Sam, make time for this, it is very important for your website and any business that is done through it.

Oh, as for the Space Invaders replica I posted earlier, it takes me a 2-3 days to build one.

Forums can be harsh, but you asked for input and you got it. Take it and move forward.

Time management is the hardest thing about self employment. I am also a one man band. I market, build, do the art, deliver, do accounts, website updates, drink the beer, play (oops) I meant 'test' the machines. Its very difficult. LOL.

If nothing else, you have probably gained a lot of interest. Thats the marketing taken care of. Got any beer?

vertygo · « **Reply #62 on:** February 12, 2008, 03:44:03 pm »

There are so many really nice, css based templates out there, why not use one of those ? I have a few links if you want, pm me.

Also, keep in mind some search engine optimization ideas if you want to show up in google, yahoo, etc.

Code: [Select]

<META NAME="Description" CONTENT="Describe your webpage here" />
Title tags should be pretty keyword rich..
ie.

Code: [Select]

Turnarcades - Cabinet Info
Turnarcades UK - Custom Arcade Cabinet Info

and

Code: [Select]

Turnarcades - Examples
Turnarcades UK - Examples of Custom Arcade Cabinet Builds

(I'm not feeling very creative, but you get the idea)

Also, I'd suggest using ALT tags for all your images

Code: [Select]

img src = " ..." alt = "Custom Mini Arcade Cabinets - MAME" etc.

that way anyone searching google images for arcade cabs might come across your pics, etc.

A sitemap is essential as well, even if you don't update your content that often. Head to http://www.google.com/webmasters to submit it and use their other tools (need to sign in/up)

submit your sitemap to MSN
http://search.msn.com.my/docs/submit.aspx

submit your sitemap to yahoo
http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/

Based on your domain, .co.uk - you won't have to worry about country specific stuff, they'll just know.

Also, in-bound links (people linking to you) are really important.. so hopefully everyone on this forum with a webpage will link to you

Cheers!

ratzz · « **Reply #63 on:** February 14, 2008, 09:52:11 am »

Quote from: samshaw946 on February 12, 2008, 08:17:13 am

I've asked for constructive criticism of the site

.
.
.
.
.

If you don't like something, just state it civilly. Please don't keep on and cracking remarks. At least I'm attempting to build something here, and we all have to start somewhere. I'm not asking you all to be customers, but I respect your opinions, so please respect me.

I think you got constructive criticism didn't you? It's learning to take it that's your problem.

You also got professional advice about your site. From your response, it doesn't look like you want it though. There's no need to get so defensive about what people of said. I did not say that you HAD to take my advice, I just offered you advice - FREE advice.

I don't mind people telling me my cab is crap, if they tell me how to fix it. That's all I did with your site - quite frankly, I won't offer you any more.

You need to relax a little and not take things so personally.

A quick, kind "Thank-you" would have sufficed, even if you're thinking "get stuffed" (and, no, don't bother!).

zombie_arcades · « **Reply #64 on:** February 15, 2008, 02:46:08 am »

Hi Craig,

Glad you're back on your feet again and moving ahead with Turnarcades. In case you're wondering who I am... I came to visit you late last year about the possibility of you working with me on taking arcade machines to the retail market. Things didn't work out but I am glad you're well again and fulfilling your dream of becoming a full time arcade machine builder.

Things are moving along nicely with me too, and my first machine will be ready within the next week. There has been so much to do but the end result should be well worth it. I'm aiming for the higher end of the market, and I believe you're aiming for the low - mid range of the market. I think you've got a great product there at a great price. Personally, I wouldn't offer so many options, but that's just me.

Don't take things to heart on here buddy. 99% of what's said on the internet would never be said face-to-face. The internet removes everyones inhibitions and you just have to allow for that.

Overall, this is a fantastic forum with like minded people.

Take it easy,

Kevin
Zombie Arcades

ratzz · « **Reply #65 on:** February 15, 2008, 04:30:04 am »

Quote from: zombie_arcades on February 15, 2008, 02:46:08 am

99% of what's said on the internet would never be said face-to-face.

WRONG!

Oh, and welcome -- nice introduction!

Turnarcades · « **Reply #66 on:** February 15, 2008, 02:10:55 pm »

Hi Kev, glad to know it's all going ahead.

I'm making a good recovery thank you. Unfortunately I couldn't commit to the project back then due to my circumstances but I'm glad you carried it forward as planned.

I've now taken on several assistants and am carrying on as I started out, aiming more at the middle-market. This works out well as the direction I went for was more with the custom aspect, hence the options available.

I will be happy to add you as a link to the Turnarcades website 2.0 (coming soon!)

ratzz · « **Reply #67 on:** February 15, 2008, 02:23:40 pm »

Quote from: samshaw946 on February 15, 2008, 02:10:55 pm

I will be happy to add you as a link to the Turnarcades website 2.0 (coming soon!)

Sorry Craig, I thought I'd never write on this thread again.

But please tell me the thinking behind putting a UK competitor's link on your site. Even if you aim for different markets, you don't want one of your potential customers to view Kevin's site and think "You know, I like his better!" What is your logic?

This is BASIC stuff Craig -- I am keenly looking forward to TurnArcades 2.0, lets hope it doesn't end up being another version 1.0!!

Turnarcades · « **Reply #68 on:** February 15, 2008, 08:29:20 pm »

You don't know how me and Kevin spoke, so you wouldn't get it.

As for the website, I'll take it you won't be accepting the offer I was about to put to you then.....

ark_ader · « **Reply #69 on:** February 15, 2008, 11:59:16 pm »

Looking at your website I noticed something obvious. The Green on Blue buttons do not work. I suggest using a thinner font and use a mustard yellow colour, as it is easier on the eyes.

Also I would take down your website until it is finished.

Nothing worse than having a unfinished and dodgy website, to infer that your products are dodgy too.

I would lose the larger projects and drop the prices on the finished products (yes I'm repeating myself) and you should have the community knocking on your door.

Good luck with the site and your venture, even though the economy will be a difficult hurdle for you, I see some good ideas.

Turnarcades · « **Reply #70 on:** February 16, 2008, 07:14:10 am »

The website is having a total overhaul but things are a bit demanding at the moment with my other job.

Right now the site is generating a lot of requests and e-mails, so I will keep it up in it's current state as a temporary solution, although I'm now unhappy with the way it looks.

There's no point losing the larger products, as it doesn't do any harm them being there. It's better to offer them and show we can do them to the few who are after that. The more we can offer the better, as we are a custom outfit after all. I'm not just looking to knock out a few 2-player cabs for a quick raise, I'm trying to appeal to those who have a more specific idea of what they want.

I have price-checked the cabinets, and they are the best around so they will remain as is.

The biggest thing here is the re-design, which is coming. The one thing I never really accounted for was the way the site can vary in appearance from browse to browser. Besides the overly colourful look, that's what inspired the re-write.

ratzz · « **Reply #71 on:** February 16, 2008, 12:26:53 pm »

Quote from: samshaw946 on February 15, 2008, 08:29:20 pm

You don't know how me and Kevin spoke, so you wouldn't get it.

As for the website, I'll take it you won't be accepting the offer I was about to put to you then.....

What's there to get?

When was the last time you saw driving instructions in Tescos to the local Sainsburys? Or in B&Q to Homebase? Hmm ... wonder why they wouldn't do that, and I wonder why Kevin would bite your hand off for a link?

And no, you couldn't afford me ....

shock_ · « **Reply #72 on:** February 25, 2008, 07:14:21 am »

Good luck with the new site build! Building quality websites, like cabs, is much harder than it looks. Especially if it's not your day job.

Here's another free tip - and it's got nothing to do with your current site.

You mentioned cross-browser testing was something you were looking at improving this time around. May I suggest you check out browsershots.org, a website that will take a URL you provide, display it in a bunch of browsers/operating systems/screen widths etc. Takes a while for all the variants to arrive (eg 30 minutes), but can be very interesting and heaps cheaper than trying to set up and run those tests yourself!

Once you've got a page of the new site all ready, publish it to your webspace (but don't link to it from any of your current pages, else or those nasty Googlebots will find it, and ruin your secret launch!). Then you've got a URL to test with.

nb- you can bookmark the results page as soon as you request it, then come back and load it again later in the day.

Here's some I prepared earlier so you can see what I mean.
http://browsershots.org/http://www.turnarcades.co.uk/TurnarcadesExamples.htm

Turnarcades · « **Reply #73 on:** February 25, 2008, 08:24:15 am »

Thanks very much for that, shock; This is an excellent solution. I'm currently working with someone on re-shaping the website in general and maybe adding some flash. Even though this guy knows his stuff now, this will come in handy when it comes to site maintenance in the future.

Not sure how long it's gonna take, but the response I've been getting so far from ebay customers linking to the site is very good, even as it stands now. Hopefully once I integrate a checkout and quote builder, this will alleviate my e-mail load and finish the site off a lot better.

ratzz · « **Reply #74 on:** February 25, 2008, 01:31:11 pm »

I am really looking forward to see this project ... Let us know when it's up and running!

Blanka · « **Reply #75 on:** May 26, 2008, 09:30:15 am »

Yeah, my first thought too: get rid of the renderings. Even for renderings they are bad. What did you do? Stretch images in perspective with photoshop? Most Sketchup DIY plans on this site look better.

And professionalise everything. You can add 100 bucks to sales prices easy if every thing does not look this tacky. Start with cleaning up your Avatar. You're in business now

- Good product photography
- Clean W3C compliant website without moving objects or flash
- Higher pricing


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