Author Topic: Ideas on a homemade 4 way restictor (Read 3612 times)

betacrash · « **on:** February 27, 2002, 09:20:30 am »

I was just wondering if anybody had any good ideas? -betacrash

JustMichael · « **Reply #1 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:01:17 am »

I liked the nickel idea better but I would just secure the nickel to the head of the roofing nail. No drilling metal neccessary then.

Jakobud · « **Reply #2 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:01:47 am »

You realize that Oscar has already made some 8way to 4way restrictors, right? They work quite well from what everyone says.

Lilwolf · « **Reply #3 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:10:23 am »

Some people like the idea of making everything thing themselfs from what they have around.

I don't think you will be able to build anything cheaper then buying them from Oscar myself. He doesn't seem to care about a profit... I think hes only looking to cover his cost basically (but I don't know). He has a good design that is removable.

but if you dont' care about it being removable, it should work (nails trough a nickle). But it shouldn't be all that sturdy. I wouldn't expect them to last that long around my kids. Also they won't be removable or look good. But you cant beat 20cents in change and a few nails for the price

btw, it might work even better if you hack it directly on to the joystick itself (so the restrictors are UNDER the control panel) This would look better and be sandwiched between the joystick base and the control panel so it might be stronger. If you look, you might find that there would be a good way to stick them there.

Mike · « **Reply #4 on:** February 27, 2002, 10:38:42 am »

The best way to make a restrictor which no one has done at least for a wood control panel. Would be to have the hole for your joystick be a little larger and make a small round plastic peice with a slit in one side so it can pop over your joystick handle then push this thing down into the hole around your joystick. Then this little round thing will have like a diamond shape on the inside so you can't hit the corners.

Cryofax · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2002, 11:12:48 am »

If you want something permanent, just cut the hole in your panel to a diamond shape (or box shape for Q*Bert, heh). If you want go from 8-way, to 4-way (either kind) on the fly you'll have to cut a box in the panel and have a two piece insert (two pieces of wood which together form the diamond) to drop in the hole around the joystick shaft, then pop out again for 8-way.

You could cut your joystick hole in a "star" shape of two squares, one 45 degress to the other, then you could rotate your insert 45 degress for Q*Bert 4-way...

- Cryo

ArcadeFX · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2002, 11:32:49 am »

These are some very good ideas. My problem with the Ocscar plates are that my control panel show how bolts at all. All mounting hardware is hidden for an ultra clean look. So I can not use the plates if I wanted to. Plus my kids cannot change the plates easily.

But the idea of a restrictor that would fit down into the cp hole cut is excellent. I am going to give this a try. I just need something to make it out of now. I will have to spend an hour in the hardware store looking this week.

Mike · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2002, 12:57:03 pm »

If you get it to work let me know. I'll create some for myself.

OSCAR · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2002, 03:40:05 pm »

Wow, who dreamed up that crazy, curved design to act as a restrictor?

Betacrash... your idea sounds absolutely feasible.

Here's some free quick pointers for you guys that want to try to make your own based on what I learned while developing mine:

1.) When mounting from the top of a wood control panel, you will have to be extremely accurate with your screw locations. I found that being as little as 1/16" off can make the difference between not blocking the diagonals and not being able to hit the four ways. The reason you need to be so accurate is because the diagonals are hard to block by restricting movement of the joystick so high up on the shaft.

2.) Physically locating the restrictors with respect to the joystick's base location was the only way I could get repeatable results. This is where the mounting plate came from for my design. Believe me, the mounting plate was not added on a whim.

3.) I did look into the "drop in" type restrictors. The problem I had with these is related to tip #1. The joystick hole you will drill in your control panel may not necessarily located with respect to the joystick base. As I said above, I found that as little as a 1/16" off with your joystick hole/restrictors (with this method), and the restrictors lost accuracy or the ability to move in a 4-way direction.

When you are homebrewing your own, you are expecting to do some trial and error to make them work. On the other hand, when you purchase something, you will expect it to work as-is (I do anyway). To ensure repeatable & reliable results, I chose to design mine with functionality as the primary concern, and the aesthetics as second. I can understand that many would rather not have a mounting plate at all, and I am looking into a solution for that.

FYI - I do have a survey currently going at www.oscarcontrols.com looking for input into the upcoming redesign of the spinners, mostly pertaining the to the Model 1's, but the Model 2's may be affected by the results as well. Curiously, the survey so far has been leaning towards keeping the mounting plate for the spinners!?! Go figure.

--OSCAR

bob · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2002, 05:00:01 pm »

I had been thinking of making a restrictor that worked on the *bottom* of the joystick. It would be on a lever of some sort, so I could raise it into position.

I hadn't gotten any further than thinking about it when I saw Oscar's design. I had decided to probably buy one of his, and then this nickel thing came up....

Bob
South Carolina

Cryofax · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2002, 09:37:44 pm »

Bob : I like that lever idea! A disk that raises up and locks into place around the bottom of the shaft would be quick. Perhaps to keep the panel looking "clean" just something you actually push up from the bottom of the panel right under the stick (wouldn't work for a desktop panel obviously).

BetaCrash : I was thinking just two pieces of wood for the insert in the CP opening with the same finish as the panel so when they're in they blend in. I would think you could make a little mini pry-bar to reach into the opening around the shaft and pull them out quickly.

- Cryo

betacrash · « **Reply #11 on:** February 28, 2002, 09:26:26 am »

totally unnecessary. but who cares. and its only about 28kb -betacrash
http://home.fuse.net/betacrash/resrtictor.swf

mw · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2002, 03:51:41 pm »

Been working on this for the past couple days.

_{Oscar's Point #1 - "I found that being as little as 1/16" off can make the difference..."}
I found that it was more like 1/32". I had everything layed out and working, using double-sided sticky tape. Drilled holes and now my plate doesn't work anymore.

My "Plate" (based on Oscar's) is made from 1/16" laminated plastic and cut on a computerized engraving machine. The 1/32" comes from the play in the plate with my pins installed, if I bolt/tape it down it works again. This brings in Oscar's Point #2 of the mounting plate and the only way I see it working for general distribution (my hat's off to Oscar here). My hesitation with Oscar's plate is ruining my smooth look and something that is UNFOUND & UNPROVEN. I was noticing my plastic was wearing from the joystick shaft, if using metal, which is harder the joystick shaft or the metal on the plate? Not that either would wear out over 10 years, just a passing thought I had.

I like Mike's idea and betacrash's graphic, I'll try it out on the engraving machine to see how the drop in idea works. Once the outside frame is mounted it would be easy to drop in different plates for 4-way, horiz. or vert. The only problem with this would be mounting it properly(See above paragraph). Anyone have a ACAD drawing already done ?

Oscar is the way to go if you want a quick fix, he has done his homework, to make it as easy as possiable to mount (and who doesn't like an easy mount).

1UP · « **Reply #13 on:** February 28, 2002, 08:34:35 pm »

I can see it now... the first problem you're going to have with 'drop ins' is that they most likely will 'pop out' very easily. You'd have to have something like pins or screws to hold them in place, and that takes us right back to Oscar's design. Worse, if you're just dropping inserts down the joystick shaft, it'd be hard to get them straight in the first place, and then you'd be lucky if they hadn't rotated out of line w/in a few minutes.

On the other hand, I've been working on an idea for a smaller restrictor that would fit into the round indent around the Happ super joystick shaft. It would have a large flat lip all the way around that would be the same depth as the empty square area on top of the super's plastic mounting plate. This way, it would be held down by the control panel itself. From that, there would be a thin metal post with a lever on the end that would reach 3/4" up to the control panel, where you could lift up the black plastic washer beneath the joystick grip[, and flip the restrictor 45 degrees, so it works diagonally or horiz/vertically. Somewhere on the lip, there would be a spring-loaded ball bearing like you have on a ratchet wrench, to lock the restrictor in place (at 45 or 90 degrees.)

Don't know if it all would really work, but I'm going to try a prototype anyway...

Mike · « **Reply #14 on:** March 01, 2002, 07:30:35 am »

Quote

totally unnecessary. but who cares. and its only about 28kb

nipsmg · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2002, 09:29:17 am »

Quote

This would be a good Idea except I change it slightly instead of making the peices come out put the peices in a guide. So they slide out to the side. Then have a small lever at the bottom that will slide them out and lock them back into position.

That actually isn't a bad Idea.. I was considering something like that myself. Only issue is what to use to lock them back into place.. without making the control panel look too rediculous..

the only idea I could come up with is to install some kind of springed button style lever (like you see on telescoping poles (like on an umbrella).. Drill a hole in the restrictor place and have the levers pop up into the holes when slid to lock around the joystick shaft and when you slide them outward. I just wish I had time to try it out... :(

1UP · « **Reply #16 on:** March 01, 2002, 07:09:27 pm »

Actually, if you're going to use a guide, why does it still need to be 2 pieces? You could actually make one of the 4 joystick grooves (perhaps the upward one) extend all the way to the end of the plate. Then you can slide the whole thing in from the bottom in one piece, with the joystick shaft sliding down through the groove until it's centered.

Agent Davis · « **Reply #17 on:** March 01, 2002, 08:27:50 pm »

Just make sure you all try all these ideas on a test panel or something.... Otherwise I can only imagine how many people will ruin their panels.

1UP · « **Reply #18 on:** March 02, 2002, 01:10:36 am »

No kidding. I'm actually building a prototype panel out of shelving to make sure everything is perfect in final form.

mw · « **Reply #19 on:** March 09, 2002, 09:24:10 am »

Ok I did it... and it worked, actually quite good.

A small square 3" frame with 2 inserts with a diamond pattern. The inserts actually snap into the frame so they don't pop out unless you forget and play a fighting game. The frame is secured with double sided tape for now.

I do have a couple of problems.

1) the frame is two small, My Ultimate's dust cover gets caught on the frame if not using the insert. (made a insert with just a hole in it.)

2) The inserts arn't that easy to remove once snapped into place. (working on this one still, plan on a small pull like in battery compartment of radios or removing the dust cover.)

3) The fact that the plate can come out during play, allthough you have to crank on the stick pretty hard to get it to pop out. The seam of the two pieces appear to cause this so I'm going to angle the pieces instead of a verticle/horizontal seam. ( / this, not | or - )

I know I need pictures

I promise I'll get some.

1UP · « **Reply #20 on:** March 11, 2002, 12:29:30 pm »

Here's an idea:

How bout a mounting plate like Oscar's underneath the panel, with a slot that this goes into? Then you just hinge up your panel, slide a locking lever back and forth, and there you have it. Maybe it could have 3 shapes in it, one of them square for Qbert?

darkmanx · « **Reply #21 on:** March 11, 2002, 01:26:39 pm »

thats about the best idea i have seen. i will have to try it out a little later

Lilwolf · « **Reply #22 on:** March 11, 2002, 01:31:51 pm »

Great idea.

1) but things to think about. You have to make it stable and non-moving while playing.

2) If it's not exactly centered, it will not work (it will allow diagonals).

3) it has to be able to move between the screws holding the joystick up.

You might have to find a good set of rails might make it work. Then I could also see having on the bottom a tab that comes out that would hang out the front of the control panel to allow you to slide it back and forth.

1UP · « **Reply #23 on:** March 11, 2002, 01:59:32 pm »

I was thinking of a lever that maybe you pull up to unlock it from some slot it locks into, slide it over, and lock it in a different pos. I'm sure if I walk around Home Depot long enought, I'll find something... Like Oscar's, it would need a mounting plate that locates the whole works properly in respect to the joystick. It might also be mounted below the joystick.

erik · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2002, 09:09:45 pm »

Has anyone tried making a simple circuit?

From Scott's Unicade http://home.austin.rr.com/shumate/unicade/controls.htm:

Wire Joysticks
The middle two joysticks and top-fire buttons are wired the same way as the buttons. The outer two joysticks, P1 left and P2 right, are wired to a circuit I designed to allow me to select between 8-way, 4-way, and diagonal modes. The circuit works via a switch mounted on the control panel. When the switch is in 8-way mode, the signals that come from the joysticks pass through the circuit unaltered. When the switch is in diagonal mode (i.e. Q-bert mode), a logical AND function is applied so that only the diagonals are registered. When the switch is in 4-way mode, P2 right, which is a 4-way joystick, takes over the inputs from the P1 left joystick The inputs normally received from P2 right are disabled

Agent Davis · « **Reply #25 on:** March 16, 2002, 04:52:32 am »

For the millionth time,

It is not about circuitry that anyone cares about. It is about the FEEL. If you block the diagonals electronically the stick still feels like an 8-way. Trust me, there's a big difference.

1UP · « **Reply #26 on:** March 16, 2002, 09:23:43 pm »

Actually, it's not even just the feel, it's the performance.

Lilwolf · « **Reply #27 on:** March 16, 2002, 09:44:11 pm »

btw, you can already do this in mame software wise.

you can make it up, not left not right.... left not up not down.

helps, helps games that do wierd things on diagonals (frogger can be bad... extra jumps).... but still sucks.

Quote

Has anyone tried making a simple circuit?

From Scott's Unicade http://home.austin.rr.com/shumate/unicade/controls.htm:

Wienerdog · « **Reply #28 on:** March 18, 2003, 03:19:50 pm »

1. Can restrictor plates be used with the Happ 360s? If the 360s can be purchased for $25, I'm thinking of using them for all of my joysticks (just to have common parts).

2. What is an ideal joystick setup? I like 1UPs two joystick panel (nice job), and I want a fighting panel, and I'll probably make a 4way joystick panel.

3. Is it easy enough to change a J-Stik from PacMan mode to QBert mode somehow, or am I better off putting two J-Stiks on my CP (one for PacMan and one for QBert)?

dhansen · « **Reply #29 on:** March 18, 2003, 03:36:04 pm »

WOW, this wins the "resurection of an ancient thread" award! Impressive!

Wienerdog · « **Reply #30 on:** March 18, 2003, 03:42:05 pm »

I just figured I wouldn't start another thread on restrictor plates when this one already covers alot of what I was looking for. 1 year and 2 days, I've seen better. I'll see if I can find som other oldies.

Amra · « **Reply #31 on:** March 18, 2003, 11:35:31 pm »

The P360

dhansen · « **Reply #32 on:** March 18, 2003, 11:42:43 pm »

I'm sorry I forgot to put a smilie on here to denote a joke...

I just thought I went through a time warp, that's all...

Doug

Wienerdog · « **Reply #33 on:** March 19, 2003, 02:06:35 am »

I understand

.

It's funny when someone bumps a post on the Hot Deal sites (such as fatwallet.com) from years ago. Suddenly you see a post titled:
"SMOKIN' - 128mb pc133! for $450"


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Author Topic: Ideas on a homemade 4 way restictor (Read 3612 times)

mw

mw

erik