Restoring vs. Maming a cabinet - The complete rule book

[MaximRecoil]

Hmm. I'm confused. This site's acronym (and a quick check on the wiki) suggests to me, that it's about "Building you own" stuff, not "Restoring Beat-up cabinets back to their original luster" 

Pardon me for pointing out the obvious here, but the classic arcade machines have already been built, by someone else, many years ago.

If you are going to take the initialism of this site to heart, then if you want a cabinet, you should be Building Your Own.

[yalborap]

You know what matters to me? The internals and artwork. And if you can strip the artwork off and gut the parts, you know what you're left with? A worthless, damn, plywood box.

You know what.... You're absolutely right! It's a worthless damned plywood box.

But it's only a worthless damned plywood box because it's had all of that stripped out of it. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Lets take a faberge egg remove the jewels, remove the gold hardware, sand the translucent enamel off the surface and give it a nice coat of white paint to freshen it up. What have you got now... A nice bright white paste egg, completely worthless and unrestorable but still nice and bright.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear) 

Well, then put the jewels back on it, a bit of touch up, and it no longer smells like a rotten egg.
-csa

THAT is what I'm saying.

Did he mess up the side art? Did he destroy the control panel art in the process of drilling new holes? Did he snap the marquee over his knee and chuck it out the window? Did he stab a soldering iron through the PCB?

Because if he didn't...Well, I have a hard time getting annoyed. I'm not part of any restoration community, but we should be preserving THAT stuff. The boards, the monitorrs, the artwork, the stuff that makes a game unique.(If we're talking about a game that adds unique hardware, include that in the list as well.) Not the cheap plywood box that stuff rode in on.

To use your egg example, what's valuable on that? The jewels, the gold hardware, the translucent enamel. Not the egg that stuff rode in on.

Now, should we try and preserve it all together when we can? Sure we should! But we're going to have to gut cabs to make cabs work again anyways, so let's worry about THAT, not some cheap plywood, eh? I mean, am I wrong here?

[TelcoLou]

Hmm. I'm confused. This site's acronym (and a quick check on the wiki) suggests to me, that it's about "Building you own" stuff, not "Restoring Beat-up cabinets back to their original luster" 

Pardon me for pointing out the obvious here, but the classic arcade machines have already been built, by someone else, many years ago.

If you are going to take the initialism of this site to heart, then if you want a cabinet, you should be Building Your Own.

Understood  It just pains me a bit, being so new to this "scene", to see angry posts arguing about morality and all ... (games ... they're just games)

[RetroACTIVE]

Understood  It just pains me a bit, being so new to this "scene", to see angry posts arguing about morality and all ... (games ... they're just games)

Yes they are just games but for many is akin to antique collectibles... unlike furniture and stuff, antique electronics are a bit more challenging for many to deal with... people can be impatient / apprehensive with maintaining these things... so unfortunately an easier path is to slap a pc in it and call it done.

[MadGamer]

[/quote]
Understood  It just pains me a bit, being so new to this "scene", to see angry posts arguing about morality and all ... (games ... they're just games)
[/quote]

"..just a motorcycle, Mr. C??...and I supposed your mother, was just another mother??.." ...
                                                                                                                (Arthur fonzarelli)

Sorry couldn't pass it up, just trying to keep it light

[brandon]

The Atari version of ET comes to mind...

The Atari version of ET was not commercial equipment costing thousands of dollars per unit.  

true.. but to say that only popular items are ever produced in quantity is not necessary true.. with arcade games or anything else

[brandon]

Hmm. I'm confused. This site's acronym (and a quick check on the wiki) suggests to me, that it's about "Building you own" stuff, not "Restoring Beat-up cabinets back to their original luster" 

Pardon me for pointing out the obvious here, but the classic arcade machines have already been built, by someone else, many years ago.

If you are going to take the initialism of this site to heart, then if you want a cabinet, you should be Building Your Own.

Understood  It just pains me a bit, being so new to this "scene", to see angry posts arguing about morality and all ... (games ... they're just games)

Not to mention the fact that its "Build Your Own Controls" not "Build Your Own Cabinet" but like I said before.. I've never Mamed anything and I AM building my own cabinet but I can't get upset about what somebody else does to their own property.  Think of it this way... If he'd restored it back to Galaxian 100% how would this effect me?  Is my quality of life suddenly improved?  Does an angel get their wings?  Does the hole in the ozone layer shrink?  see, I'm not effected by the outcome of his Galaxian project.. therefore I'm not going to get emotional about it.

Oh, and to suggest that MAME kills classic cabinets... well, that's about the most rediculous thing I've ever heard.  Mame is a piece of software ya know... Unless we live in the Matrix I'm not sure how its responsible for destroying cabinets... Mame doesnt kill cabinets, People kill cabinets

This is what I've been trying to get through to them. That the collecting community literally hates the BYOAC and Mame,

I'm a proud member of BYOAC and think that Mame is the greatest thing since sliced bread... So quite frankly the "collecting community" can kiss my white ass

[FrizzleFried]

Hmm. I'm confused. This site's acronym (and a quick check on the wiki) suggests to me, that it's about "Building you own" stuff, not "Restoring Beat-up cabinets back to their original luster" 

Well...why not BUILD YOUR OWN STUFF instead of killing a classic dedicated cabinet?   Give me a break.

 

[TelcoLou]

Taken to the extreme, yes, but I wonder ... would we be able to hear the collective shriek world-wide if this were MAME'd?

[RayB]

heh. Wow, we've seen mame and arcade cabinets compared to:

- classic cars
- faberge eggs
- the plight of the baby seal
- the environment
- abortion
- the right to bear arms

wow!

Let me add to the list: Think of the starving children in Africa!!

thank you.

PS: I blame SAINT for all this! It's his fault for writing that stupid book!   

[TelcoLou]

Hmm. I'm confused. This site's acronym (and a quick check on the wiki) suggests to me, that it's about "Building you own" stuff, not "Restoring Beat-up cabinets back to their original luster" 

Well...why not BUILD YOUR OWN STUFF instead of killing a classic dedicated cabinet?   Give me a break.

 

Well, in my case, I didn't have the funds, tools or experience to build my own, so I saw an already gutted, already converted cabinet for only $50. Seeing as it was pre-killed, I don't see how re-using the corpse would harm anyone.

[RayB]

Taken to the extreme, yes, but I wonder ... would we be able to hear the collective shriek world-wide if this were MAME'd?

It's been done.

[ChadTower]

RayB, you and I both know this is a lot more like homeless Iraq veterans than it is starving children in Africa.  Duh. 

[yalborap]

Taken to the extreme, yes, but I wonder ... would we be able to hear the collective shriek world-wide if this were MAME'd?

It's been done. Maybe not with MAME, but we've seen these things converted into Ms Pacman and other games. [/size]

What exactly am I looking at here? *uncultured swine*

[Hoopz]

On a side note, the Faberge Eggs aren't made out of real eggs.  I assume everyone knows that but just in case someone thought there really was a small, white, roughly 100 year old friggin egg in the damn things, I wanted to point that out.  They were originally made for the Czar's children in Russia as Easter Eggs.

Back to the pissin' match.  Sorry for the hijack.   

[fixedpigs]

Think of it this way... If he'd restored it back to Galaxian 100% how would this effect me?  Is my quality of life suddenly improved?  Does an angel get their wings?  Does the hole in the ozone layer shrink?  see, I'm not effected by the outcome of his Galaxian project.. therefore I'm not going to get emotional about it.

that's exactly the kind of asinine selfish thinking that is the root of these problems...

it's all about the 'me' factor...

how does anything that doesn't affect me directly matter...?

'oh what...there's no more siberian tigers left...all extinct are they...?
oh well...who cares...they don't have anything to do with me...!'

[yalborap]

Think of it this way... If he'd restored it back to Galaxian 100% how would this effect me?  Is my quality of life suddenly improved?  Does an angel get their wings?  Does the hole in the ozone layer shrink?  see, I'm not effected by the outcome of his Galaxian project.. therefore I'm not going to get emotional about it.

that's exactly the kind of asinine selfish thinking that is the root of these problems...

it's all about the 'me' factor...

how does anything that doesn't affect me directly matter...?

'oh what...there's no more siberian tigers left...all extinct are they...?
oh well...who cares...they don't have anything to do with me...!'

Sir, you have officially jumped the debate shark.

[csa3d]

Think of it this way... If he'd restored it back to Galaxian 100% how would this effect me?  Is my quality of life suddenly improved?  Does an angel get their wings?  Does the hole in the ozone layer shrink?  see, I'm not effected by the outcome of his Galaxian project.. therefore I'm not going to get emotional about it.

that's exactly the kind of asinine selfish thinking that is the root of these problems...

it's all about the 'me' factor...

how does anything that doesn't affect me directly matter...?

'oh what...there's no more siberian tigers left...all extinct are they...?
oh well...who cares...they don't have anything to do with me...!'

Unlike tiger DNA, this earth is still producing trees, which is what you'd harvest to make wood, at which point you could recreate the stupid box that the SOLD ELECTRONICS could be fashioned back inside of.

I'm down with the above corpse analogy.  No electronics were harmed in the making of my project.

-csa

[ChadTower]

Cutting down tree is what is making the tigers extinct.  Stop killing Galaxians and tigers, dumbass.

[yalborap]

Think of it this way... If he'd restored it back to Galaxian 100% how would this effect me?  Is my quality of life suddenly improved?  Does an angel get their wings?  Does the hole in the ozone layer shrink?  see, I'm not effected by the outcome of his Galaxian project.. therefore I'm not going to get emotional about it.

that's exactly the kind of asinine selfish thinking that is the root of these problems...

it's all about the 'me' factor...

how does anything that doesn't affect me directly matter...?

'oh what...there's no more siberian tigers left...all extinct are they...?
oh well...who cares...they don't have anything to do with me...!'

Unlike tiger DNA, this earth is still producing trees, which is what you'd harvest to make wood, at which point you could recreate the stupid box that the SOLD ELECTRONICS could be fashioned back inside of.

I'm down with the above corpse analogy.  No electronics were harmed in the making of my project.

-csa

What about the artwork? I only had a chance to skim through the original thread, but everything was untouched or swapped with reproduction stuff, yes?

[brandon]

Think of it this way... If he'd restored it back to Galaxian 100% how would this effect me?  Is my quality of life suddenly improved?  Does an angel get their wings?  Does the hole in the ozone layer shrink?  see, I'm not effected by the outcome of his Galaxian project.. therefore I'm not going to get emotional about it.

that's exactly the kind of asinine selfish thinking that is the root of these problems...

it's all about the 'me' factor...

how does anything that doesn't affect me directly matter...?

'oh what...there's no more siberian tigers left...all extinct are they...?
oh well...who cares...they don't have anything to do with me...!'

well.. add siberian tigers to the list of ridiculous things that Galaxian has been compared to... You see there is one MAJOR difference here.  siberian tigers are part of the world ecosystem and belong to everyone AND they are living breathing creatures that cant be restored.   This particular Galaxian in question is NOT beyond restoration even now... sure it would take some work and some money  but nothing is to stop somebody from put all the original guts back in and a control panel.  The side art is already being done.  Its not the last Galaxian in existence and.. ITS HIS

[brandon]

Think of it this way... If he'd restored it back to Galaxian 100% how would this effect me?  Is my quality of life suddenly improved?  Does an angel get their wings?  Does the hole in the ozone layer shrink?  see, I'm not effected by the outcome of his Galaxian project.. therefore I'm not going to get emotional about it.

that's exactly the kind of asinine selfish thinking that is the root of these problems...

it's all about the 'me' factor...

how does anything that doesn't affect me directly matter...?

'oh what...there's no more siberian tigers left...all extinct are they...?
oh well...who cares...they don't have anything to do with me...!'

Unlike tiger DNA, this earth is still producing trees, which is what you'd harvest to make wood, at which point you could recreate the stupid box that the SOLD ELECTRONICS could be fashioned back inside of.

I'm down with the above corpse analogy.  No electronics were harmed in the making of my project.

-csa

Just face it man... You are a selfish bastard for doing what you want to your own property

[bishmasterb]

We are talking about arcade cabinets, right? 30 year old plywood boxes with bad paint jobs and fun games installed in them?

[yalborap]

We are talking about arcade cabinets, right? 30 year old plywood boxes with bad paint jobs and fun games installed in them?

No. We're talking about ancient, gold-and-jewel-encrusted tiger eggs. 

[brandon]

We are talking about arcade cabinets, right? 30 year old plywood boxes with bad paint jobs and fun games installed in them?

No. We're talking about ancient, gold-and-jewel-encrusted tiger eggs. 

...with a baby seal inside and inside the brain of that seal.. the knowledge to solve the energy crisis and end global warming.

[csa3d]

Think of it this way... If he'd restored it back to Galaxian 100% how would this effect me?  Is my quality of life suddenly improved?  Does an angel get their wings?  Does the hole in the ozone layer shrink?  see, I'm not effected by the outcome of his Galaxian project.. therefore I'm not going to get emotional about it.

that's exactly the kind of asinine selfish thinking that is the root of these problems...

it's all about the 'me' factor...

how does anything that doesn't affect me directly matter...?

'oh what...there's no more siberian tigers left...all extinct are they...?
oh well...who cares...they don't have anything to do with me...!'

Unlike tiger DNA, this earth is still producing trees, which is what you'd harvest to make wood, at which point you could recreate the stupid box that the SOLD ELECTRONICS could be fashioned back inside of.

I'm down with the above corpse analogy.  No electronics were harmed in the making of my project.

-csa

What about the artwork? I only had a chance to skim through the original thread, but everything was untouched or swapped with reproduction stuff, yes?

Since I'm still on trial here..

The bezel glass, and CGA monitor, and ROMSTAR control panel which came with the cab sit in my garadge under plastic, unharmed.  Feel free to make an offer for them if you want them.
100% full sized Repro artwork from MameMarquees arrived last night, that's for next weekend.
original Coin Door fully restored
original marquee still in place, polished along with repainting of retainer
original black texture t-molding purchased, yet to be installed
replica midway badge from ThisOldGame.com installed
Exterior white paint (back and top) repainted
INterior black parts repainted
Interior painted to remove must/mold issue
Romstar control panel in the garage if anyone wants that..
motherboard now belong to byoac member Peale for his galaxian which was missing one supposedly.

So yeah.. things I did which you can boil me in water for:
- I painted the inside of the machine to remove mold and must (how dare me.. this thing is going in a household.. why be sanitary)
- I parted it out a "complete" mess of a cab, because I only wanted the corpse
- I removed the internal monitor braces from the original cab because they didn't lend themselves well to the rotating monitor
- I modified the back wooden admin door, so it swings like a normal door
- I sealed up the 6x9 speaker hole in lue of a better modern speaker solution

Yes I could have built a box, NO, at the time I did not have the skills, tools or knowledge to do so.

No, I don't care either, I don't like antiques, and believe there is quite a market for after-market car parts.

Round 3, ding!
-csa

[yalborap]

Think of it this way... If he'd restored it back to Galaxian 100% how would this effect me?  Is my quality of life suddenly improved?  Does an angel get their wings?  Does the hole in the ozone layer shrink?  see, I'm not effected by the outcome of his Galaxian project.. therefore I'm not going to get emotional about it.

that's exactly the kind of asinine selfish thinking that is the root of these problems...

it's all about the 'me' factor...

how does anything that doesn't affect me directly matter...?

'oh what...there's no more siberian tigers left...all extinct are they...?
oh well...who cares...they don't have anything to do with me...!'

Unlike tiger DNA, this earth is still producing trees, which is what you'd harvest to make wood, at which point you could recreate the stupid box that the SOLD ELECTRONICS could be fashioned back inside of.

I'm down with the above corpse analogy.  No electronics were harmed in the making of my project.

-csa

What about the artwork? I only had a chance to skim through the original thread, but everything was untouched or swapped with reproduction stuff, yes?

Since I'm still on trial here..

The bezel glass, and CGA monitor, and ROMSTAR control panel which came with the cab sit in my garadge under plastic, unharmed.  Feel free to make an offer for them if you want them.
100% full sized Repro artwork from MameMarquees arrived last night, that's for next weekend.
original Coin Door fully restored
original marquee still in place, polished along with repainting of retainer
original black texture t-molding purchased, yet to be installed
replica midway badge from ThisOldGame.com installed
Exterior white paint (back and top) repainted
INterior black parts repainted
Interior painted to remove must/mold issue
Romstar control panel in the garage if anyone wants that..
motherboard now belong to byoac member Peale for his galaxian which was missing one supposedly.

So yeah.. things I did which you can boil me in water for:
- I painted the inside of the machine to remove mold and must (how dare me.. this thing is going in a household.. why be sanitary)
- I parted it out a "complete" mess of a cab, because I only wanted the corpse
- I removed the internal monitor braces from the original cab because they didn't lend themselves well to the rotating monitor
- I modified the back wooden admin door, so it swings like a normal door
- I sealed up the 6x9 speaker hole in lue of a better modern speaker solution

Yes I could have built a box, NO, at the time I did not have the skills, tools or knowledge to do so.

No, I don't care either, I don't like antiques, and believe there is quite a market for after-market car parts.

Round 3, ding!
-csa

Dude, I'm on your side on this! I'm not trying to put you on trial here, I was just curious.

...Do you want a hug?

[Hoopz]

Since I'm still on trial here..

The bezel glass, and CGA monitor, and ROMSTAR control panel which came with the cab sit in my garadge under plastic, unharmed.  Feel free to make an offer for them if you want them.
100% full sized Repro artwork from MameMarquees arrived last night, that's for next weekend.
original Coin Door fully restored
original marquee still in place, polished along with repainting of retainer
original black texture t-molding purchased, yet to be installed
replica midway badge from ThisOldGame.com installed
Exterior white paint (back and top) repainted
INterior black parts repainted
Interior painted to remove must/mold issue
Romstar control panel in the garage if anyone wants that..
motherboard now belong to byoac member Peale for his galaxian which was missing one supposedly.

Peale getting the motherboard helps out a member of the community and keeps another machine in operating condition.  That's a good thing and should appease some people around here.  It doesn't sound like anything done so far as altered the cabinet to a condition that can't be fixed relatively easily.

I didn't read the original thread so I don't know any other details.  From what this post says, I don't see this being a huge issue.  Though why create another thread defending what's been done, doesn't make that much sense.

[shardian]

What I want to know is why has this case been dragged out so much when the final product will be a VERY well done Galaxian cabinet that will be a great modern tribute to the original machine. Why nail this one when that one guy is still turning a mint Smash TV into a pink puffball??

[csa3d]

I would prefer to keep the original thread on topic about questions or comments pertaining to the BUILD, so that the project thread does not turn into an ethics thread.  There's nothing more annoying when trying to find information on this board, then to have the search option return results to a thread which has gone so far off topic, you loose interest in finding the answer you originally were searching for.

Or.. you can go with "I'm scared of what other board members may think and wanted to draw attention away from what I was really doing."  Ask Fozzy, he's got the real answer.

-csa

[patrickl]

[Hoopz]

I think its a cop out to say don't Mame a classic cab.  It's probably more accurate to say "don't damage it so that it can't be restored at some point".

There was a post a few years ago in EE with the flapjack who took a classic cabinet and posted an awful control panel that only fit because the cabinet itself had to be cut and bastardized.  I think it was being sold on on Ebay but don't recall now.  It was awful because of the changes that were made.  If someone is doing going to that degree, I agree that it's a problem. 

When someone takes the time to part it out, makes cosmetic or physical changes that can be undone easily, and otherwise protects the integrity of the cabinet, I think it's his (her) right to do this.

 

[brandon]

what God does to HIS kittens is HIS business

[RayB]

I think its a cop out to say don't Mame a classic cab.  It's probably more accurate to say "don't damage it so that it can't be restored at some point".

There was a post a few years ago in EE with the flapjack who took a classic cabinet and posted an awful control panel that only fit because the cabinet itself had to be cut and bastardized.  I think it was being sold on on Ebay but don't recall now.  It was awful because of the changes that were made.  If someone is doing going to that degree, I agree that it's a problem. 

Methinks you're thinking about the working Dig Dug that had the control panel ripped out, a big ass "landing strip" of a control panel tacked on, original monitor replaced with a PC monitor or TV, and then to add to the drama, he had cut out the front area and built in some shelves to store his game consoles on. All done in a rather hackish way too.

PS: This used to be a Major Havoc:

[Sir Auros]

Well,  I am tired of defending the MAME community over at KLOV.
It seems that the arcade collecting community is right...

---fudgesicle--- it...it's your cab...do what you want...doesn't mean I'm not going to call you a --cream-filled twinkie-- for doing so.  If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck,  for some strange reason I highly doubt it's a Humming Bird.

Solution: Stay at KLOV with the arcade collectors instead of sticking around here calling newbies --bags of cream-filled twinkies--.

csa3d - I'm 100% on your side here if only because I'm tired of asshats like FrizzleFried hijacking project threads over this argument.

[Hoopz]

Methinks you're thinking about the working Dig Dug that had the control panel ripped out, a big ass "landing strip" of a control panel tacked on, original monitor replaced with a PC monitor or TV, and then to add to the drama, he had cut out the front area and built in some shelves to store his game consoles on. All done in a rather hackish way too.

That sounds right.  Utterly stupid looking. 

[RayB]

I will not let this thread die. But let's ease off on Mr. Galaxian. He could have done THIS:

(the infamous DigDug massacre)
http://www.arcadeathome.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=49969

[Sir Auros]

In case anyone wants to see an example of what I'm talking about...

BYOAC regulars scare off newb. Congratulations, you guys saved a cabinet...in Estonia.

[CheffoJeffo]

What is the problem with trying to convince a newbie not to butcher a complete, working and rare cabinet (as that was) ?

Did you notice how many people voiced the same opinion ?

Do you think they are all meanies ?

[ChadTower]

I bet that game is a whole lot rarer in Elbonia, too.