UFC 81

[Samstag]

When the outcome is predetermined, the only pressure is worrying about screwing up the choreography.

So dancers, singers, actors, etc have no right to be nervous about performing in front of 50,000 people?  Better tell them that.  They seem to disagree.

I would argue that 95% of wrestling fans can't tell when something's been screwed up.  I would also argue that while it takes some big balls to wrestle at the top level in front of millions of fans, it takes an entirely different kind of courage to face another professional fighter for real when you know that one little slip means an instant knockout or knee-bar submission.  Now he's a clip in a highlight reel.

That said, I think if he sticks with it and gets a few more fights under his belt he'll come back and destroy Mir next time.

[hulkster]

When the outcome is predetermined, the only pressure is worrying about screwing up the choreography.

So dancers, singers, actors, etc have no right to be nervous about performing in front of 50,000 people?  Better tell them that.  They seem to disagree.

I would argue that 95% of wrestling fans can't tell when something's been screwed up.  I would also argue that while it takes some big balls to wrestle at the top level in front of millions of fans, it takes an entirely different kind of courage to face another professional fighter for real when you know that one little slip means an instant knockout or knee-bar submission.  Now he's a clip in a highlight reel.

That said, I think if he sticks with it and gets a few more fights under his belt he'll come back and destroy Mir next time.

im not an avid ufc fan, but i do like the occasional bout now and then.  i used to be a HUGE wrestling fan about 5-6 years ago (as shown by my user name  )  so when i saw that lesnar was going to fight, i was pretty excited to see it just for the pure fact that the man is a freakin beast.  wrestling is fake (wwe anyway) obviously, but the stuff that he could do was just pure strength and athleticism.  that doesnt translate into ufc champions by any means, but it sure does help. 

anyway, i watched the fight replay on youtube and honestly, if lesnar hadnt made the rookie mistake of standing there with his legs exposed, he wouldve knocked mir out.  he was wailing on him hardcore, and really only made ONE mistake and that was leaving his leg exposed.  but that does show the veteran ability of mir in that all he needed was one opening to take the biggest man down.  i think if lesnar had a few more matches of experience, he wouldve torn up mir in the first round.

[ChadTower]

he was wailing on him hardcore, and really only made ONE mistake and that was leaving his leg exposed. 

Lesnar made that mistake with his arm about 3 times before Mir realized he wasn't going to be able to crank an arm that big and changed to going for a leg.  He had the armbar set up twice and Lesnar just ripped his arm out - pure power but the mistake was made over and over again until Mir finally got one.

[hulkster]

he was wailing on him hardcore, and really only made ONE mistake and that was leaving his leg exposed. 

Lesnar made that mistake with his arm about 3 times before Mir realized he wasn't going to be able to crank an arm that big and changed to going for a leg.  He had the armbar set up twice and Lesnar just ripped his arm out - pure power but the mistake was made over and over again until Mir finally got one.

good call.  i didnt really notice until i watched again.  i think he had a gameplan going in because he kept talking about how he had practiced all the submission stuff, but i think once he got him on the ground all his practice and gameplan went out the door and he just wanted to beat the crap out of the guy.  thats probably just pure instinct and aggression.  i remember reading some stuff about his tryout with the vikings and some of players said he had so much energy and rage going into every tackle and play that it was kinda scary.  so much tenacity.  he's a scary dude when he gets going.

i know his thing in the wwe was fake, but he did such a good job of looking pissed off and coming at the other wrestlers that it was just scary.  now that ive seen him in a REAL fight....its even scarier.  his arms are like tree trunks.  i give him 3 or 4 more real fights until he starts becoming a force.   

[Jouster]

I think Kongo is the next best bet to get a shot...he has looked pretty tough.

I was impressed with Lesnar...having never seen him ever in my life, he showed a lot of potential.  It is just too difficult to take 1 - 2 years of training into the octagon with guys that have decades or so of BJJ training and expect not to get submitted.  If he learns to use his strength better and gets more versed in submission defense he'd be really impressive.

I also noticed the boos turned to cheers after his post fight interview.  I think a lot of people may have been thinking the same thing I was...when his fight was coming up and they were showing all of the actors/wrestlers in the audience...I actually said to the TV that I hope the UFC doesn't turn in to a joke like pro wrestling.

Jouster

[ChadTower]

It was notable that the ring announcer called him an NCAA champion and a former WWE superstar... but not a former WWE champion.  Guess they didn't want people thinking about the championship concept in pro wrestling.  During the hype bits they did show him with the WWE belt and called him a former WWE champion.

[hulkster]

..I actually said to the TV that I hope the UFC doesn't turn in to a joke like pro wrestling.

Jouster

well as a former fan of "pro" wrestling, it never really took itself serious to begin with.  so to call it a joke is really unfair, because its not trying to be serious in the sense of the word.  vince mcmahon always says that he is "in the entertainment business" not in the wrestling business.  he knows the difference in "real" wrestling and what he does.  he incorporates real wrestling and athleticism with scripted events.  its not a joke, its just like a movie or a soap opera. 

would you call movies a joke to real life?  is the Terminator a pathetic excuse for real post apocalyptic events??  no, its just a movie, and its fake, and everyone knows it is, but its a movie and entertains for that purpose alone.  thats all the wwe is, and all it ever was.  ufc is much more brutal and guys will get knocked out and cut and broken bones and stuff, but they arent doing backflips off the top of a ladder through a table either.  both have their niche audience.

[ChadTower]

well as a former fan of "pro" wrestling, it never really took itself serious to begin with.

For over 100 years the pro wrestling business took itself so seriously that a pro wrestler would beat the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of you in a bar if you questioned the integrity of the "sport".  The entertainment nature of pro wrestling was a very very closely protected secret.  It is only in the last 10-12 years that the actual nature of pro wrestling has been open for the general public to see.

IIRC it mostly started around 1994 when WCW started holding television tapings months in advance, with live crowds, that included title changes that wouldn't be acknowledged until a couple of months later.  The business had been shifting a little but that was the first open exposure to the "internet public". 

[shardian]

For over 100 years the pro wrestling business took itself so seriously that a pro wrestler would beat the ---Cleveland steamer--- out of you in a bar if you questioned the integrity of the "sport".  The entertainment nature of pro wrestling was a very very closely protected secret.  It is only in the last 10-12 years that the actual nature of pro wrestling has been open for the general public to see.

Oh man, back in the 60's and 70's, wrestling was a HARDCORE serious sport for fans. I remember seeing a documentary that detailed the Andy Kaufman - Jerry Lawler feud in Memphis Wrestling. The majority of fans were old women, and those old women were PISSED at Kaufman to the point they would probably beat him with their purse if they saw him in public.

It has always been a big deal in Mexico and Japan too - more so than in the States.

[ChadTower]

This is why a lot of pro wrestlers used to have criminal records and a history of violence in real life.  If they wanted to succeed in the business, they had to follow its rules, which included severe reactions to people asking insider questions in the wrong context. 

For the most part it was the advent of the internet that brought about the downfall of that era of pro wrestling.  TV tapings had been held for many years, but all of a sudden, information could be spread all over the world in a day or less.  A person from the taping would send results in to a web page and suddenly everyone knew two months ahead of time that Rick Rude was going to be the WCW Heavyweight Champion and on what date it would happen.  WCW didn't anticipate that - and they couldn't do anything about it.  They didn't have the money to adjust after banking everything they had left on booking Disney facilities and taping 3 months' of TV in advance.

[hulkster]

well as a former fan of "pro" wrestling, it never really took itself serious to begin with.

It is only in the last 10-12 years that the actual nature of pro wrestling has been open for the general public to see.

yeah, i didnt really say it, but i was referring more to the last 10-12 years.  i remember my grandmother going nuts watching wrestling, and people crying when so and so lost.  i know it was considered real back in the day to many. 

i was mainly referring to brock lesnar and his time in the wwe, so thats where i was coming from.  not just with the entire history of pro wrestling.

[ChadTower]

I remember my mother getting very upset about King Kong Bundy splashing Hulk Hogan over and over again on Saturday Night's Main Event... when Hogan started "convulsing" I thought she was going to call the cops.   

[shardian]

I remember my mother getting very upset about King Kong Bundy splashing Hulk Hogan over and over again on Saturday Night's Main Event... when Hogan started "convulsing" I thought she was going to call the cops.   

I thought Sgt. Slaughter really was a traitor and friends with Saddam... I think I might have shed a tear when he attacked hogan and locked in the cobra clutch until hogan passed out.

[hulkster]

I remember my mother getting very upset about King Kong Bundy splashing Hulk Hogan over and over again on Saturday Night's Main Event... when Hogan started "convulsing" I thought she was going to call the cops.   

I thought Sgt. Slaughter really was a traitor and friends with Saddam... I think I might have shed a tear when he attacked hogan and locked in the cobra clutch until hogan passed out.

and for the record, when earthquake sat on hulk hogan and sent him to the hospital on a stretcher....i cried.

[ChadTower]

I guess this is all we need to know about Arlovski.  A former heavyweight champion listed near the bottom of the card as a "may not be broadcast" prelim.

 

[lordtodd75]

Koscheck and Sanchez at the bottom of the undercard as well. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

[ChadTower]

That doesn't make sense to me.  Koscheck is a title contender that is coming off a loss to maybe the hottest fighter on the planet right now.  I can maybe see Sanchez given that he has lost two long decsions in a row...

...but neither of those guys is a former champion like Arlovski.  All I can think of is that they want to get one last dollar from his contract before it expires but they don't want him to get any attention for it in the process.

[CCM]

Looks like Cro Cop is out of the UFC for now... not that it's much of a surprise...

With much speculation swirling about him recently, Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic was in attendance at the press conference where it was announced that he would now be fighting under the Dream banner. One official of the new promotion said that he was hopeful they would be able to have Filipovic fight on the March 15 event, but that they could not officially confirm it yet.

Addressing several question marks surrounding him, Filipovic stated that he is physically and mentally recovered from his recent disappointments in the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=5691&zoneid=13

[ChadTower]

Looks like Cro Cop is out of the UFC for now... not that it's much of a surprise...

What is Dream?  Is it full MMA or straight kickboxing?

[CCM]

Dream is a K-1 event. 


http://www.k-1.co.jp/k-1gp/index.htm

[ChadTower]

That explains why I didn't know it.  I read that as meaning he was signing with some promotion named Dream.  I do know K1.  Cro Cop belongs there.

[odysseyroc]

Dream is an MMA promotion that is owned by several former top Pride execs. It's being run by K1 like Hero's.

As far as I know, the Arlvoski fight is not being televised because he's on his way out of the UFC and they don't want to promote him before he ends up in a rival promotion. I'm sure Koscheck isn't being shown because he's a boring "lay n' pray" fighter and not a fan favorite. The one the puzzles me is Diego Sanchez. Sure, he's coming off of 2 losses, but he still brings it and is exciting.

[ChadTower]

Why fight Arlovski at all, then?  If you're not going to broadcast it what is the use when you could give that fight to someone coming up? 

[odysseyroc]

Why fight Arlovski at all, then?  If you're not going to broadcast it what is the use when you could give that fight to someone coming up? 

Because he has one fight left on his contract. They were about to do the same thing to Brandon Vera a year or so ago when he had one fight left and was holding out.

[CCM]

Why fight Arlovski at all, then?  If you're not going to broadcast it what is the use when you could give that fight to someone coming up? 

He probably has 1 last fight on his contract.  For the UFC to honor that contract I would think they would have to put him in a fight or risk more legal action/controversy.  So they give him an un-hyped undercard fight and they're done with him.  Makes sense to me...

[ChadTower]

Hrm.  It hadn't occurred to me that they have to give him his set number of fights.  I figured he had to give them the fights if they wanted them but I figured the UFC could simply say "we don't need you anymore" and wait out the end of the deal.  I guess if he's getting paid by fight and not by duration that makes sense.

[ChadTower]

Kimbo is fighting Tank Abbot this month in EliteXC.. that is worth watching just for the circus aspect.

Anyone else watch this?  Kimbo looks much better than his first fight - he had good spacing, good movement.  He needs to learn to listen to the ref better.  His power is unbelievable - but of course, no one has hit him yet and he has yet to face anyone with any submission or grappling.  Tank Abbott looked like he barely trained for this fight.  Tank is either completely done - and just showed up to take punches for a check - or he took Kimbo way too lightly.  It's a little scary to see Bas Rutten standing in Kimbo's corner.  I can't think of a trainer anywhere in the world that could turn this guy into more of a real monster.

Who might be next for Kimbo?  Looking at their roster I can see one of two ways - give him another striker like Cabbage Correira or Antonio Silva.

Does EliteXC really have Ninja Hua, Ricco Rodriguez, Robbie Lawler, Renzo Gracie, Frank Shamrock, all under contract?  Or are these guys that just had one fight deals at some point?  I remember Shamrock fighting for them and getting DQed and that felt like a one shot deal.

They appear to have Gina Carano too.  I think I actually remember her fighting for them before Amercian Gladiators aired.

[CCM]

I watched it. Kimbo is a beast, but Tank is done.  I'd love to see Kimbo in there against someone who could take him down.  It would be very interesting to see EliteXc sign Arlovski.

I saw Tank on Kimmel the week before the fight and he claimed to be training seriously for this fight, he said he was 296 pounds for his last fight in London (in which he got knocked out).  He said he lost about 40 pounds since that last fight. 

EliteXc has some great fighters.  Did you see the Yves Edwards fight, I don't think I've ever seen anyone throw a knee like that before.   If Ricco can lose some weight and keep clean, he could do some damage, I didn't realize he is only 30.

Gina Carano has had 2 fights for EliteXc and in a recent interview said she wanted to get back in the ring as soon as possible.  She said she will be filming the second season of American Gladiators in March and April and wants to fight soon after that.

I'm pretty sure Frank Shamrock fights for Strikeforce, but they have joint events with EliteXc.

[ChadTower]

I watched it. Kimbo is a beast, but Tank is done.  I'd love to see Kimbo in there against someone who could take him down.  It would be very interesting to see EliteXc sign Arlovski.

Arlovski will probably have a pretty high price tag.  I don't know that EliteXC has that sort of budget.

Did you see the Yves Edwards fight, I don't think I've ever seen anyone throw a knee like that before.   

No, only got the chance to see the Kimbo/Tank fight.  Wish I could have seen the whole event.

[CCM]

The whole event was great, 4 great knockouts, including Tank.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3S3oBkNOGo[/youtube]

[ChadTower]

Just poking around some more... found this.  Look at that stupid photo.  Either those guys are burn victims or they photoshopped that severely to make them look ripped.  Look at Silva's head... apparently, as he strains his upper body, he has tendons in his head that are bulging too.   


EDIT:  BTW, rumors on the web are that Lesnar fights again at UFC 85.

[CCM]

On that same mmaweekly.com website, there is an article about Paul Buentello challenging Kimbo.

[ChadTower]

Eh, fighter to fighter challenges are nothing but talk.  They have little control over who they fight and when.

[CCM]

True, but it would be an interesting matchup. 

[ChadTower]

I want to see Kimbo against a grappler, preferably a wrestler.  Someone that will actually do more than stand there and stick their chin out.

BTW, if they took a point away from Lesnar for back of the head strikes while both were down, Kimbo raining down on the back of Abbott's head from a standing position should have been a DQ.  That was so much worse than what Lesnar did.

[CCM]

I've read conflicting reports on Lesnar's next fight some say that Lesnar has been pulled off the UFC 85 card due to his loss to MIr, others say he will be on the card.  Most reports seem to be pointing to him not fighting.

It seems like the original plan was for Lesnar to beat Mir, then headline UFC 85.

Liddell vs Shogun is the headliner of UFC 85 as of now.

Brandon Vera has said that he is fighting on UFC 85, but I highly doubt he would be matched up with Lesnar.

[ChadTower]

Brandon Vera has said that he is fighting on UFC 85, but I highly doubt he would be matched up with Lesnar.

I've seen a couple of "tentative" ufc 85 cards and they usually have Lesnar vs TBA and Vera vs TBA - no reason to think they are fighting each other.  I don't see a whole lot of reason to pull Lesnar from 85, either.  Just don't give him a former world champion this time. 

Find a way to get Lesnar and Kimbo.   

[shardian]

The whole event was great, 4 great knockouts, including Tank.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3S3oBkNOGo[/youtube]

Hehe, saw that one coming a mile away.

[CCM]

Find a way to get Lesnar and Kimbo.   

Now that would be a fight! 

[clanggedin]

Kimbo is fighting Tank Abbot this month in EliteXC.. that is worth watching just for the circus aspect.

Anyone else watch this?  Kimbo looks much better than his first fight - he had good spacing, good movement.  He needs to learn to listen to the ref better.  His power is unbelievable - but of course, no one has hit him yet and he has yet to face anyone with any submission or grappling.  Tank Abbott looked like he barely trained for this fight.  Tank is either completely done - and just showed up to take punches for a check - or he took Kimbo way too lightly.  It's a little scary to see Bas Rutten standing in Kimbo's corner.  I can't think of a trainer anywhere in the world that could turn this guy into more of a real monster.

Who might be next for Kimbo?  Looking at their roster I can see one of two ways - give him another striker like Cabbage Correira or Antonio Silva.

Does EliteXC really have Ninja Hua, Ricco Rodriguez, Robbie Lawler, Renzo Gracie, Frank Shamrock, all under contract?  Or are these guys that just had one fight deals at some point?  I remember Shamrock fighting for them and getting DQed and that felt like a one shot deal.

They appear to have Gina Carano too.  I think I actually remember her fighting for them before Amercian Gladiators aired.

That fight really didn't show much of anything about Kimbo. It only lasted 45 seconds.. I would like to see him fight a grappler like Mir, so we can see if he has any ground game.

Frank Shamrock's first fight with EliteXC was against Renzo Gracie in which Shamrock was DQ'd for illegal strikes. He then fought Phil Baroni for the middleweight title I believe. Shamrock won that fight.. He fights Kung Le next to defend his title. It will be Kung Le's hardest fight to date.

All of the guy you mentioned are all still under contract with EliteXC. The UFC has no desire to sign Ricco, Lawler currently. I don't believe they would even want Frank back either.

I am not sure I like the EliteXC because they are similar to PrideFC in which they like to book freak show fights that are pretty lame. (Kimbo vs Tank). The last I heard Kimbo has been training @ Extreme Couture in LV, so needs to not be given any more tin cans and someone that will actually test his skills, similar to Lesner.

Lesner's next fight will probably be against team punishment's Justin McCully (8-3-2 MMA, 1-0 UFC). Justin said he has been approached about this fight happening at UFC 85, but right now it's still not definite.

Even though agreements have not been signed it's highly likely Brandon Vera will be facing Fabricio Verdum at UFC 85.

Also Wanderlei Silva will be fighting Keith Jardine at UFC 84... I don't understand how you can lose to Liddell and get to fight the guy that beat him.. Usually when you lose you have to fight someone who has also lost to your opponent. I guess they figure if he beats Jardine then he will be set for a re-match against Liddell.

*********** Back to the OP. Spent Super Bowl weekend in Vegas and went to the weigh ins on Friday and chatted had the opportunity to talk to Dana White, Jens Pulver, Frank Trigg, Keth Jardine, Kenny Florian, Heath Herring, Tim Sylvia, Jeremy Horn and others. We didn't go to the fights since the only seat left were on the $800 range, so we went to Blondies in Planet Hollywod and watched the fights. It was definately on of the better UFCs I've watched lately.