I-PAC to X-BOX project.. help!

[AndyWarne]

I need some help here!
I got as far as buying my very first console ever, an X-BOX.
Into the workshop, off with the top, cut open the video plug (who needs warranties anyway!) wired up to my trusty NEC Multisync II.
Wasted about 2 hours trying to work out why the Red and Blue signals were missing and the picture was all green. Then dawned on me that the picture is supposed to be all green on boot up dammit!

[mattfl]

you know they make a little converter so you don't cut open the video plug to hook it to a pc monitor right?

[AndyWarne]

I'm not having a good day today, hit xmit before finishing the post!
Anyway what I was going to ask was,..anyone know anything about these?
The controller has normal buttons and a hat switch which of course are going to be pretty easy to implement in the I-PAC chip.
The mushroom things are analog so these will need to have an emulation ie "pressed fully over" when the joystick switch is pressed.
First question: Is it necessary to have a manual switch over between the emulation of the hat and the mushroom? Or can I just actuate both in the assumption that the game will not mind?
If I do need to switch over from hat to analog, I wonder what is the best way to do this, and how often the switch over needs to be made. Is once per boot-up OK or would it be on-the-fly?
Do any games use the hat and the mushroom together for different functions?
I'll probably have other questions later. If anyone wants to assist and beta-test drop me an email.
Thanks

Andy

[AndyWarne]

I don't think a converter would have worked directly. The X-BOX seems to only be capable of sending 15Khz RGB with composite sync which is at a 0.3 v level. (apart from composite PAL or NTSC video of course).
I got around this by wiring the composite sync to the Green signal and the NEC detects this as "sync on green".

[Frostillicus]

There are quite a few games that use both the digital pad and the analog sticks - Splinter cell comes to mind first...many games use the sticks to move and digital pad to select stuff or perform inventory funcitions.

[AX]

most games seem to use the analog sticks and joysticks together, although those games ie splinter cell buffy and most rpg type games seem kind of stupid on an arcade machine.  but thats just my opinion.  ASs far as games like marvel vs capcom2 and fighting games they are usually digital OR either or.  If you need and info or help testing whatever drop me an email.  I have done some moding of these things and there is one here currently that i am about to do some mods on.  this will be my fourth xbox lol.

[Dave_K.]

I don't think a converter would have worked directly. The X-BOX seems to only be capable of sending 15Khz RGB with composite sync which is at a 0.3 v level. (apart from composite PAL or NTSC video of course).
I got around this by wiring the composite sync to the Green signal and the NEC detects this as "sync on green".

Woah, slow down there Andy.  In one post you are hacking the video and the next hacking the controller calling the analog sticks "mushrooms"?    How does this relate to the i-pac?

First the video: xbox is not constrained to 15khz.  90% of of xbox games are capable of 480p (31.5khz) output.  Since Microsoft choose Component as the only output method for high resolution, you can use a component->rgb transcoder to send to a computer monitor (this is what mattfl was refering to).  You can use the same converter to send a 480i (15khz) signal to an arcade monitor (or hack the cable to output 15khz in RGB ala SCART mode).

Second controller: they are called analog thumb sticks and not mushrooms  .  The standard xbox controller has all ANALOG buttons.  But thats not to say you can't hack them to digital controls.  The d-pad (which I think you were refering to as the "hat" control, is independant of the analog thumbsticks, and as other pointed out can be used in games along with both analog sticks.

Now the big question. What do you hope to accomplish with this i-pac to xbox project?  Are you attempting to add functionality on the ipac to communicate as an XBOX usb device??  If so, then why bother with all the hacking apart of an xbox and controller?

[Frostillicus]

Andy, I would recommend getting ahold of the codeunderground.com xbox controller driver - you seem like someone who would understand what's going on and it might help.  Also I think the select and start button are purely digital, FWIW.

I, too, can't see using anything like this except for games like soulcaliber2 or other action games.

[SlikStik-Christian]

We get emails at least a few times a week from people that want a SlikStik to play Streetfighter on X-Box live. I think there is a market for an adapter at least. It seems the funtionality is not hurting X-Arcade at all.

[Dave_K.]

We get emails at least a few times a week from people that want a SlikStik to play Streetfighter on X-Box live. I think there is a market for an adapter at least. It seems the funtionality is not hurting X-Arcade at all.

Personally, I think both you and Andy should look at intergrating a PS2 controller chip into your products.  The PS2 controller is pretty much the industry standard.  With the plethera of PS2-to-whatever converters out there, one solution will work for all consoles.

[AndyWarne]

I am not looking to hack the X-BOX or the video, I just mentioned that part as an intro and then accidentally sent the posting before getting to the real part.
It will be a replacement chip for the I-PAC. I have had many requests for this but now starting to do it, have had mostly people saying that there is little point in doing it! So maybe I'll do something else instead.
Yes the PS/2 is another candidate, just a matter of implementing a different protocol. The X-Box is easier because that is already USB (albeit a strange version of it).
Defining the requirements is the only difficult part as I have never played any console games. Looks like at least two configurations are needed, one that makes the joystick emulate the D-Pad (hey, using the correct terminology already!) and one the Analog thumb sticks (I think mushrooms sounds better!). But then what about buttons? There are not enough on a normal cab to handle the D-Pac directions and the 8 other buttons, if the joystick is handling the analog.

[Frostillicus]

 plus the 2 sticks themselves are buttons.  Granted, the chances of using each and every one at a time is small, but HALO uses just about all the buttons  

[tom61]

But then what about buttons? There are not enough on a normal cab to handle the D-Pac directions and the 8 other buttons, if the joystick is handling the analog.

Then use both players. The more one looks into X-Box to arcade controls, the less it makes since to have full functionality. To fully emulate one pad with arcade controls, you'd need two analog top fire sticks, one 8 way stick, eight buttons, start and select buttons. So, with a normal cab you'd have to use both players and a third stick (using the player select buttons as start and select).

As far as the buttons being analog, only the triggers are analog. I'm playing with an X-Box controller (S) and the buttons don't slowly move down like a analog button would, only a complete down movement when the pressure is right.

The way I'd set it up with a Street Fighter cab layout, is to have the P1 stick be simulated left analog stick, X Y as the left top two buttons, A B as the left bottom two buttons, and the two right most buttons be selectable between white and black -or- L and R triggers. Then have the P2 stick be selectable between the D-Pad and the right analog stick and two of the buttons be whatever the P1 control isn't (i.e. B&W or L&R) and two more buttons be stick 1 pressed in, and stick 2 pressed in. Of course using the P1 button as start, and the P2 button as select.

The real problem is going to be that most people will probably want to have two players on the same cab. You're going to need to figure out a way to get the I-Pac to simulate two controllers (which may, or may not need two controller contectors), then I'd recommend setting up each player based on the P1 layout I gave.

Do you think you can make it to where it can 'daisy-chain' to an existing J-Pac/I-Pac setup?

As with most anything you can come up with I'm game for beta testing.

[RandyT]

...

As far as the buttons being analog, only the triggers are analog. I'm playing with an X-Box controller (S) and the buttons don't slowly move down like a analog button would, only a complete down movement when the pressure is right.
...

Maybe it's just the controller you are using.  The action buttons are analog, just like the PS2 controllers.

They don't have a travel, rather respond to increased pressure on the button.  Kind of like how a music keyboard equipped with "aftertouch" works.

Here's a link to the MadCatz Xbox controller that shows analog action buttons in the description:

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf%5Fid=224943&siteID=H1w9RQ7Zivg-aJik10Fl%2A9U1IgVdNy5Kxg

RandyT