button layout: which style is best?

[TheShanMan]

So I'm in the process of designing and building my panel, and browsing the control panel thread I see 3 basic approaches to button layout, and I'd like to hear from those of you with existing panels why you chose that layout, and if you would do it differently. And if you have another layout that I didn't mention, I'd like to know about that too.

Here are the layouts I've seen. First is "straight", second is "arc", and 3rd is "rotated arc".

[fixedpigs]

the best style is the one that you find most comfortable...

print out some paper buttons...place them on a table or something & move them all around...see what works for you and what doesn't...

 

[NoOne=NBA=]

The biggest thing is what's comfortable for you.
I went modular to avoid having to make decisions like this.
The best button layout for me is the one that fits the game you're playing.

My personal favorite setup for a multi-purpose CP is:

X   OO   X   OO
                O

That lets you play 2-player 2-button games, 1-P 2-stick games, and 5-button games like Asteroids.

[TheShanMan]

Good feedback so far, and I agree that I need to find what works for me, but as a part of that "research" I wanted to hear from others who have gone thru this before, especially if someone has regretted their choice for some reason.

I will have some room to change it later because I'm doing swappable panels out of sheet metal (my own fabrication/welding) where the swappable portion is just a drop-in rectangular sheet that will mount into a rectangular "hole" in the entire control panel area (which will have the admin/1P/2P buttons). So really I'll only be wasting a bit of sheet metal and the time it takes to make the cuts.

[Anubis_au]

I did a paper mockup for my CP and found I preferred the rotated arc setup, your third option. But, as the others wrote, whatever is best or most comfy for you.

[protokatie]

I did a paper mockup for my CP and found I preferred the rotated arc setup, your third option. But, as the others wrote, whatever is best or most comfy for you.

I spent more time thinking about the buttons on my future CP than I did about any other aspect of my project and came up with similar conclusions...

This was my latest design idea:
http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m105/protoplatapus/?action=view&current=basiclayoutsmall.jpg


And this was my cardboard test that I found to give me the feeling I wanted.

http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m105/protoplatapus/?action=view&current=photo.jpg

My 2 cents, but I would recommend the curved arc thingy like I did.

[TPB]

This was my latest design idea:
http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m105/protoplatapus/?action=view&current=basiclayoutsmall.jpg

Nice.

And a natural arc on the bottom row, with the 7th button, for a Neo Geo layout.

[javeryh]

Do what's comfortable.  I'm using a curved design for my next cab.  I have CPs that are like all of your examples and I like the curved one the best.  In fact, if I ever get around to it I'd like to redo my straight and raised middle button CPs to be curved as well.  My layout is attached.

[Turnarcades]

I prefer the standard, uniform, two straight rows of three.

[CheffoJeffo]

Without a doubt ...

[Anubis_au]

CrapMAME, here we come...

Apologies to the owner of that CP...

[vidmouse]

Shan -

I use the second "arc" one in your picture... it was most comfortable
for my style of play.

As a bonus, it appears to work well for the A-B-X-Y and L-R buttons
for playing SNES games.  (due to the diamond shape + 2 extra buttons)
For Genesis games I use the bottom 3 buttons in an arc.

I didn't feel a need to add the 7th button for 4-button Neo Geo
layouts... I didn't "learn" on too many original machines so I'm
not used to it anyways.

[DaveMMR]

I'm partial to the straight rows myself, but that's personal preference.   It's more aesthetics than comfort though.  I also use the top row as my main buttons, so there's no discomfort for me. 

Check out the control panel database stickied at the top to see how the different options look in action.

[RetroACTIVE]

I've heard the curved pattern sometimes is a problem when two people are playing simultaneously... it tends to  kick the elbow out...

thats what I've heard... not sure if its true... but I can kind of see that happening.

[u_rebelscum]

I prefer the straight, but just my opinion.

I looked into doing an arch to match my fingers when I play, but I have virtually no arch when my fingers are in the bent, ready to play position.  No where near the arch what others have done here (and you show in your examples pic).  If you arch, arch to match how your fingers would lay while you're playing.  Don't just use the outline of your straight fingers (unless that's how you play, of course); depending how you bend each finger, the arch may increase or decrease.  (Even if you bent each equally, the arch will decrease.)

  Again, I just went with straight.

[ratzz]

Does anyone find that using the 'curved' layout means that their arm kind of skews off to the right - and does this cause any problem?

I'm getting to this stage and cannot decide to go with straight to curved, but my cab is single player only.

I guess I need to create a mock-up...

[Daniel B.]

"candy cabs" have a curved layout so you aren't rubbing elbows with the guy next to you. Thats the supposed reason, fwiw.

[u_rebelscum]

I find close (to the joysticks) & "over" rotated buttons causes "out elbows", and arching (by itself) doesn't change anything.  How much is "over" depends on how far apart the buttons are from the stick; the father apart, the less rotation before it's "over" rotated.

Also, how the person stands to the stick vs to the buttons makes a difference on what's "over" rotated and what's "out elbow" and to which side.

Easier to try it than to explain it: pretend the buttons are right next to the stick, then pretend they are 10" apart.  Pretend to rotate the buttons while in both positions.  See?  Put the buttons next to the stick again, and stand with the stick lined with your belly button.  The move them so the stick is lined with your shoulder.  Notice how your fingers rotate?  Now keep your button fingers at that "shoulder stance" rotation and move the stick & buttons back to your belly button.  See how the buttons are "over rotated" and you elbow is sticking out?

I have almost a "belly stick" stance, while some of the rotations I see here have to be done by "should stick" people (or they love their button elbow sticking way out).


That's why rotating (and arching) is a personal opinion.  Different spreads (distance between stick & buttons), different stances ("belly" to "should" stick), different body size ==> different "over"/"perfect"/"under" rotations.  Don't believe the hype that "one fits all", do what''s best for you.

edit: clarifications

[RetroACTIVE]

I find close (to the joysticks) & "over" rotated buttons causes "out elbows", and arching (by itself) doesn't change anything.  How much is "over" depends on how far apart the buttons are from the stick; the father apart, the less rotation before it's "over" rotated.

That makes perfect sense...

[oqqalz]

I was thinking about a control panel redesign recently and was contemplating the following button layout.  It's a slightly rotated NEO-GEO, that also provides a wide two-button layout, a triangle up and triangle down layout, a diamond/Vanguard layout, as well as be good for many emulators, NES, SNES, PSX, PS2, with the diamond buttons and the other two for a L1 & R1.

If needed, I guess a thumb button could be added.  That would help with the MK series as NEO-GEO buttons 1 & 2 would do the Punch, 3 & 4 the Kicks, and the extra thumb for blocks.

[protokatie]

Don't believe the hype that "one fits all", do what''s best for you.

That's true. For me, I have very long fingers and when I bend then to hit buttons they form the very arch that is in my design. I even put a dot on my cardboard prototype for where each on my finger tips landed (Maybe a smart idea for anyone trying to decide how to position buttons) and that is more or less where I put the buttons on the prototype.

For people who want to go the "straight 6" pattern, I would suggest that you either place the buttons a good distance from the joystick, or angle them slightly. This is to help prevent the odd bend in the wrist you need to do to hit all the buttons in a 6 button game...

Just my 2 cents

[Kajoq]

Go angled - Either of these two




Take off the 2nd two on this one (or not, I have the full 8 button on my cab)

[TheShanMan]

Thanks for the input, all. I settled on a variant of Kajoq's 2nd layout (minus the 7th and 8th buttons). I'm doing swappable panels and I'm starting with a 2 joystick panel. Space is limited because my panel is no wider than the original centipede panel, and the other 2 layout approaches would result in the wrist kink problem. We'll see how this layout turns out. I'm trying to balance the need for space between a player's joystick and that player's buttons with the need for space between P1's buttons and P2's joystick. I hope it's the final version but after real use I may decide to revise.