which version of Windows? (and a couple other Q's)

[teknomedic]

Hey all...

I don't have the time to keep up with all the info on MAME (even though I try) and on top of that I've not been around reading up that much for a good 6 months (or more).

Anyway... I've heard/read that MAMEx64 is helping to improve performance in some games... and can make some worse.  The options I have are XP-32bit, Vista 32bit or Vista 64bit and I'm just wondering what version of Windows I should install.  All my hardware has working drivers for all three versions of Windows.

I have a slightly older PC and it's not dual core... here are the specs...

Gigabyte GA-K8U-939
Athlon 64 3800+ @ 2.4Ghz (No O/C) (Socket 939)
1GB DDR 400 (512x2)
ArcadeVGA (AGP Version)

This PC will be only be used for MAME... I'll also be using a front end (haven't picked one yet).  Of course as time goes on I'll upgrade it and then I know I'll probably be using Vista 64bit then... but just wondering if it's worth it for me to move to Vista in any form now... or just stick with XP.  I'm just about ready to install the OS so any quick replies are welcome.


Also... what's the most "universal" button layout for a CP?  I don't want a frakenpanel but at the same time I want to be as universal as I can get.  For now I won't have any spinners or analog controls... just digital joystick control and buttons.  I've heard that having two rows with 3 buttons on top and 4 on the bottom is pretty good... but I've also seen some setups with buttons not only on the right of the joystick but on the left as well.  Games with 6 button use are the norm for me like Killer Instinct and Mortal Kombat... but I like to load up the classics as well.  Lastly, to make things worse, I'll be setting up a dual MAME & Original PCB setup so at least for my PCBs I'd like to have a lay out as close to the original layout as possible.  Once again though my PCBs are Killer Instinct, MK, Primal Rage, etc.

Last noob question... what size bit do I need to drill out the button holes and Joystick holes?

Thanks for any help in all this,
TK.

[Cero21]

Pick up the book Project Arcade.  I think it'll answer all your questions (except your OS one). 

[teknomedic]

thanks... I guess. 

[Dazz]

Pick up the book Project Arcade.  I think it'll answer all your questions (except your OS one). 

What kind of answer is that?  The book is good, but it's far from being a bible of sorts... A message forum is to help others seeing assistance and IMHO if you can't assist then don't post.

Teknomedic,

Don't be turned off of these forums because of the post of one person... I've found that most people here are more then willing to share information and offer assistance.  So, don't let one rat dropping spoil the pot of rice.

Unfortunately I can't answer your question about which OS to use.  I use XP Pro and just running command line MAME via a front end on a A64 3800+.  I'm happy with the performance.  Granted I don't try to play games like Blitz 2000 and stuff like that.

Control Panels - take a look at the gallery here.  There are lots of good examples there of control panels.  Take your time and look at a lot of control panels.  You will get a good idea of what to use.

Buttons - I "think" I used a 1 1/8" spade bit for my buttons.  I'd have to check when I get home to know for sure though. 

[emerica]

Control Panels - take a look at the gallery here.  There are lots of good examples there of control panels.  Take your time and look at a lot of control panels.  You will get a good idea of what to use.

Buttons - I "think" I used a 1 1/8" spade bit for my buttons.  I'd have to check when I get home to know for sure though. 

he is correct 1 1/8 spade for buttons and joystick center hole. You might want to take a look at the wiki also. It has a lot of info that might answer many of your questions.

The performance boost on 64 bit mame was done of dual core machines. See this thread for info.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72776.0


As for button layout, it depends what you want. Do you want a fighter layout with just six buttons or do want a 7th button so that you can have a fighter layout as well as a neo-geo layout?

[XyloSesame]

In addition to the WIKI and the benchmark thread suggested above, check out this thread and this thread for button configurations.

[teknomedic]

Thanks for all the helpful info and links...

I'll go with WinXP 32bit then since my MAME PC doesn't run any type of dual/quad processor... although I really don't play Blitz, it would be nice to get games like Cruis'n USA, World, etc running well... but they're not high on my list right now.

I know for sure I'll be doing at least 7 buttons with a 3 / 4 split to take care of my fighters and Neo... but I guess I was mostly wondering the max number of buttons needed on the left side of the control stick for some of those that use them.  I'll be looking at the CPs and trying to get a better idea about the layout I want.  I think I'll end up with a frankenpanel down the road as I add controls... but I wanted to keep it a little simple my first CP so I can get a feel for how things will go.


...and don't worry, I know the first reply isn't normal for these boards... although I don't post much I read posts from time to time and most everyone here are super nice.


on a side question... anyone know how to make or where to buy speaker magnet shielding so that my speakers won't mess up my arcade monitor?

Thanks again,
TK.

[Cero21]

Whoa.  Don't get me wrong.  I was trying to be somewhat helpful.  Being a noob and all myself I'm currently reading the book and getting a lot out of it.  In my rush to make it to my appt on time and not being able to directly look up the bit size necessary for button holes, I gave a reference that would have the answer.  Again, trying to bit a little helpful with the limited time I had.

I figured I'd direct a fellow noob in the right direction and yes, the book would answer a lot of your questions now and more questions that you will have.

Take no offence to my quick post from before.

[teknomedic]

Whoa.  Don't get me wrong.  I was trying to be somewhat helpful.  Being a noob and all myself I'm currently reading the book and getting a lot out of it.  In my rush to make it to my appt on time and not being able to directly look up the bit size necessary for button holes, I gave a reference that would have the answer.  Again, trying to bit a little helpful with the limited time I had.

I figured I'd direct a fellow noob in the right direction and yes, the book would answer a lot of your questions now and more questions that you will have.

Take no offence to my quick post from before.

Don't worry man... if there's one thing to learn about me is that I'm very forgiving... and was really just trying to give you a hard time with my "Thanks.... I think".   Of course I don't always put the "j/k" ID in my posts... mostly because I find it funnier to not say it is a joke. 

.... does your book say anything about magentic shielding for speakers? 

[Cero21]

.... does your book say anything about magentic shielding for speakers? 

Actually, yes it does!

I think it talks about using car speakers and how they aren't shielded and how comp speakers are so they are a better choice.  Stuff like that.  Not sure if it talks about how to shield unshielded speakers though.  The book is good and pretty cheap.  Really, you should check it out.  The author runs this site actually.

[teknomedic]

Funny that say car speakers because I have some nice ones sitting around that I want to use... but of course when I get them close to the monitor, rainbows appear so I've been looking for a (prefer cheap, otherwise there's no point) way to shield them. 

[ArtMAME]

I have used cheap PC speakers in several MAME cabs with no problems so far.

These are great because the PCB is easy to remove if you are connecting to existing speakers:

http://www.cyberacoustics.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Home.ProductDetail&content_id=331

[nipsmg]

I'd highly advise against vista.  Maybe after SP1 is publicly released check and see how the OS is, speed wise..  I'd definitely run WinXP SP2.

[divemaster127]

I'm running vista 64 bit on a dual core works like a charm its easier to setup than xp ever was, no error issues at all.
dm

[nipsmg]

Well, possibly call me corrected on this one.

I do know vista is more of a resource hog than XP, but if you're talking about utilizing a dual core 64 bit processor and a special build of MAME, it may work out better. 

I've just reserved a special spot in hell for Vista... and I'm a MS developer by trade, so... *shrug*.

[XyloSesame]

Well, possibly call me corrected on this one.

I do know vista is more of a resource hog than XP, but if you're talking about utilizing a dual core 64 bit processor and a special build of MAME, it may work out better. 

I've just reserved a special spot in hell for Vista... and I'm a MS developer by trade, so... *shrug*.

I'm running Vista 64 on my primary PC and did quite a bit of research prior to upgrading from XP. Both synthetic and real-world benchmarks show little difference between the two operating systems. I don't want to OT this thread, but don't cast off Vista as an OS choice without doing personal research. (FWIW, I'm using an Nlited XP for my arcade)

[Jakobud]

Do yourself a favor and don't use Vista.  There is a reason it has such a low market penetration and so many people are switching back to XP.  Don't use Vista.

[divemaster127]

I wanted to use the 64 bit vesion of mame,  the arcadevga does not support windows xp pro 64 bit & will not in the future(per andy).  So I had little choice but to run vista so I can run all of the chd's.  Also I run vista on my racing setup for direct 10.  Vista is a resource hog, I stripped it down on all machines so have in a way xp with direct x 10
dm

[Dazz]

I must be in the minority on Vista... I use it on my normal PC's and love it.  It's feels quite polished and I love the look of the Glass theme.  I have never had an issue with it other then the nagging User Account Control.   I turned off UAC and have no qualms at all with Vista.

However on my cabinet I went with XP since I know that everything works in it without serious screwing with.  There is already enough on the cabinet to screw with, don't need to mess with the OS.  Sure copying files over the network in Vista is slow, but I normally use Remote Desktop to my MAME cabinet to download and do any configuring on my cab. 

[taz-nz]

 

Sorry to say this to all the Vista nah sayers, but Vista 64bit is the best platform to run MAME on currently available. To get the most out of the current versions of MAME on up to date hardware you need a 64bit OS, so that leaves you with the choice of Win XP Pro 64bit, Vista (Home Prem/Business/Ultimate) 64bit or a 64bit Linux distro. To save typing it again here is a cut and paste quote to simplier question on the forum:

The short answer is go with Vista Home Prem 64bit.

Vista is hard on your system resources, mainly memory & hard drive space, but inspite of this it's actual very quick. Turn off the user account control and it's livable for day to day use. Memory is dirt cheap these day even for the good stuff, just slap in 2gb and that side of things is fixed, HDD space is equally cheap these days just allow 20gb for Vista, 15gb for the basic install and another 5gb for drivers, applications, and running space. There are any number of services etc that can be disable or removed to slim things down. The only thing I'd really also suggetst is make sure you graphics is areo compatible not that you likely to ever use it.

Since that basically a list of what wrong with Vista why use it:

- It cheaper: you can buy Vista Home Premium 64bit cheaper than you can Windows XP Pro 64bit. (Of course there are pirate copies of both available)
- It easier to get: alot of places will look at you blankly if you ask for XP Pro 64bit, Vista 64bit is easily found in almost all computer outlets.
- Drivers: this is the big one, Vista 64bit has good driver support for most system harware, and average driver suipport periphals. both will only improve with time, XP 64bit on the other hand was basically still born and as such has only average driver support for system harware, and rubbish support for periphals.
- General Support:  Vista is new and while most people don't like it, but support for it will only increase over time, XP 64bit is very little support and that will only get worse with time.

The only problem I've seen to date with running Vista 64bit in a MAME cabinet is avialablity of lightgun drivers, but this is more of a 64bit OS problem than just a Vista problem.

Just a side note, Window XP 64bit is not a hack, it is a fully 64bit OS, the only catch is for compatiblity & developemeht reasons it still has a number of hidden limitations left over from the 32bit version. These limitation were removed in Vista 64bit but they are unlikely to have any effect on MAME either way.

Please note I'm not a Vista lover, I run XP Pro for 95% of my day to day stuff, and Vista Ultimate 64bit for MAME and a few other things that gain noticably from the 64bit Enviroment. I still cannot suggest anyone in business use anything but Windows XP Pro, unless they are using high resource apps like CAD.
 
I've also TRIED to run SDLMAME on 64bit Linux, but as linux feels like Windows 3.11 with pretty graphics and an Internet connect, and it's hardware compitablity is rubbish in my book, I can't suggest you go the route either. I tried three different distros and two wouldn't even install on my Core 2 Duo (they intall on my Athlon64 x2) and one that installed but was useless and crashed and died two days after it was installed.

So if your running any hardware more modern than a P4, i.e. an Athlon64 X2 or Core 2 Duo, Vista 64bit is your best option. On dated hardware Windows XP (Tiny XP) is probably your best option and on obsolete hardware Dos, Linux or Win98 Lite. (I'm sure I'll get hate mail over that last bit)

[teknomedic]

thanks for all the replies... I don't have any real issues with Vista.... I'm running Vista 64bit on my two main computers and love it... I also run Vista 32bit for my Media Center PC (would be running 64bit, but a lot of the codecs I use don't offer 64bit versions yet).

With that said... I'm going to use WinXP in my MAME PC... mostly because of it having older hardware and only 1GB of RAM.  Later on I'll use Vista 64bit but only after I can get some updated hardware into my MAME PC.