ShellShock, a game being developed for BYOAC

[rovingmind]

its a force effect, the faster you fire the more it tilts the tank back, I say keep that feature, it makes it funner, and harder to do a decent bombard.

Runs ok on my machine,   1.4 ghz

[Pongo]

For those that think the camera moves too much, try the static camera. You can enable it by setting the dynamic_cam line to 0 in the config.ini

For those having performance issues,... what kind of spec machine? I haven't figured out how slow this can go yet, so we might be seeing some of that with this build. One problem might be the blast marks on the ground. I have them fade out over about 16 seconds now, and all that transparency may hurt older machines. This could be added as an option to either shorten that time, or remove them entirely if that is indeed the problem.


Fatfingers: It looks like if I hit the fire button really fast for a long period of time when backed against a wall I can get the tank to rotate forward much further than it should. This would be amplified by a slower machine,... it's really hard to do on my development machine. I'll call this a bug though, and fix it so the tank can only rotate a maximum amount.

Edit: DEFINITELY a bug! I added a delay in the code to simulate a slower machine, and it was really easy to see what was happening. The turret was rotating so far that you were shooting the ground under you, and that was causing your tank to get hit, which was causing it to spin around. Added to the "fix" list.

Also,... discovered that reverse is not remapping properly if you change the ini. I will post a patch for these when I can track this down.


 

[protokatie]

Pongo, cool! Looks like you will have a full game in no time! I also noticed the "shooting youself in the foot" thing as well, and I have a 2 ghz 64 bit CPU... (Then again I had a lot of stuff open at the time)

[fatfingers]

Edit: DEFINITELY a bug! I added a delay in the code to simulate a slower machine, and it was really easy to see what was happening. The turret was rotating so far that you were shooting the ground under you, and that was causing your tank to get hit, which was causing it to spin around. Added to the "fix" list.

 

[Pongo]

How fast are you guys firing!?!   You know you can take it a bit easier and plan your shots too?

I've got both of the issues resolved now. (the .ini reverse and the tank angle max) I was hoping to just zip up a patch here, but it's just over the filesize limit for a zip. If either of these issues are affecting you, send me a PM with your email address, and I can send you the update as an attachment. Otherwise, just wait for the next full release where these (and other) things will be taken care of.

Some questions I can think of...

Is this any fun? If not, what do you dislike?

How are the controls?
 - Speed of tanks
 - Speed of turning
 - Rate of fire
 - Speed of shots in air
 - How easy/hard to hit target?

Absolute direction vs. RC style
I had a co-worker try it out today, and he said he enjoyed it, but was really frustrated by the controls. He wanted to be able to push up/down/left/right to move in that direction, instead of the rotate and accelerate method I use now. Personally, I like the RC style controls, but I also have a lot of experience with RC cars, planes, and helis. Orientation is not a problem for me, but I can see how some people would get confused when the tank is moving towards them for example.

Do we need a limiter on firing speed? I originally thought it would be needed, but now I'm not sure. Repeatedly smashing the fire button doesn't really get you anywhere, and if you get against a wall it leaves you as an open target.

Camera Control.
 - What do you think of the dynamic cam?
 - does it get too close?

Gameplay
Would you like to see a match where you need to score a hit, resetting after each hit. (best of 3 or 5) Or would you rather have a health that declines slowly based on hits? (Even this could be done best of 3, like a fighting game)

That's all I can think of at the moment,... I'm sure there will be more later. 

[polaris]

one thing i think is fundamental to this being fun, is making it manic,
to me the way it looks and moves calls for gameplay that constantly has you shitting yourself with panic. no time to sit there and take a good aim if you get me. saying that, ive only played this 1 player so maybe player 2 adds that already.

ill try and answers some of those proper questions later too.

[rovingmind]

I'm just waiting for the AI now,  the only thing i didnt like, was the fact that with it all the way back, i couldn't see the entire playing field, so i couldnt effectivley lob shots with any aim at all at the opposing tank. 

This is definitely going in my 4way stick machine when i get it home, cleaned up, and put together.

is the start button going to be mapped the same as the mame 1 player start?

Really great game.    If i might be so bold, are you using the player fields as individual models?  I could whip up a couple of flat boundaried playing fields in blender if their ends up being a "Level maps" folder. 

I like this game. 

AI AI AI....  ( ignore this, i know about how hard an AI script is to write, way above my abilities)

[Havok]

Just grabbed this, and I love it so far! Works great on my test rig: Athlon XP 2000+ with ATI Radeon HD 2400, running 1680 x 1050. The only thing is you should make the enemy tank solid; I am able to drive right through it...

[RetroBorg]

Well done Pongo, it runs well on my machine.

My only criticism is the physics of the shooting.

If you have the turret as low as possible and shoot, the shell lands just in front of your own tank, raise the turret all the way up and it shoots heaps far in the air and lands much further away.

It would seem the moment you raise the turret the shell becomes more powerful.

I'm no physicist but it doesn't feel right, surely the shell should travel as far in the down position as it does in the most upright position or close to it. Obviously 45 degrees should be the furthest and appears to be in your game, no problems there.

Has anybody else noticed this or am way off with my physics theory?

Anyway everything else looks great so far, keep the good work up. 

[headkaze]

I'm a fan! 

It's much more fun now with shooting. The turret controls seem backwards to me though, forward goes backward back goes forward. Or am I just not used to the controls?

Also I think the cursor keys (joystick) should control accelleration/break/turn left/turn left right and the buttons to control turret and shooting. That way you use the joystick first to get into position, then buttons to aim the turrent and shoot. I suppose custom mappings would fix that anyway

Great work!

[RetroBorg]

I'm a fan! 

It's much more fun now with shooting. The turret controls seem backwards to me though, forward goes backward back goes forward. Or am I just not used to the controls?

Also I think the cursor keys (joystick) should control accelleration/break/turn left/turn left right and the buttons to control turret and shooting. That way you use the joystick first to get into position, then buttons to aim the turrent and shoot. I suppose custom mappings would fix that anyway

Great work!

I guess that's beauty of being able to remap the keys, you can set it up just how you like it.

[Jimbo]

Hey, runs great on my machine!  Nice work!

A couple of ideas:

- Regarding the Absolute direction vs. RC style - how about having both as an option, but defaulting to the RC style?

- How about adding a "power" bar for the shooting, similar to how the bazooka works in Worms (i.e. the longer you hold the "fire" button down, the more power the shot has).  If you want to get really fancy, in later levels you can add wind direction/strength factors to spice things up a bit.  This might make shooting a little harder, but give the player much more satisfaction when they get a direct hit, and put more of an emphasis on strategic play. To force the player to make certain shots you could raise some of the walls a little to narrow the angle the shot has to be fired at to get a direct hit.  Just an idea - it might take the game in a slightly different direction playability wise, but might be worth a try if its easy to implement.

 

[jfunk]

Another idea that could handicap a player..

Why not allow an 'easy shooting' mode with cross hairs on where the shell will land..?  I was definitely having issues figuring out where my shell was going to hit.  I'm guessing that'll come with practice, but allowing them to be turned on/off for individual players would give beginners a shot.  Plus, I just think of it like watching a sniper scope bearing down on you..  You know you gotta run, but it might just be too late 

Great so far, though!!  LOVE IT!

[fatfingers]

I have also noticed the strange physics while shooting and would like to see something fixed there.

I think the controls should be arrow keys for movement and other keys for cursor controls.

 

[rovingmind]

Am I the only one then that likes the funny shooting?  Since it shoots this way now, could it be a switch in the INI file if it gets changed?   

[polaris]

i like the funny shooting too

[rovingmind]

Ok, I feel like a Doof, the levels are already in their own folder.  Basic Google search answered my question.  Are you using Blitz itself? or some other program with an export script?

[Pongo]

Wow,... lots of responses.

Sounds like you are mostly enjoying it, which is a plus. Here are a few answers to some things I saw when I was reading through.


Tank collisions are not implemented yet, so you can drive straight through each other. The shells do not collide with the tank either, so it is possible to shoot straight through one and not hit it. Currently the "collision" that determines a hit is simply based on distance when the shell explodes. These will be updated in later builds.

The controls are fully mappable in the game now. If you hit Tab, you will get a box that will give you the numbers of your keys. For now you will need to write them down and then put those numbers into the config.ini file. Eventually you will be able to do this all from the Tab menu, and write the .ini out from in the game. NOTE: reverse is not remapping properly in build .02a. This has already been fixed for the next release. PM me for an updated build if this affects you and you don't want to wait.

The shell power is changed when you raise the barrel. I found it very difficult to hit different parts of the level with a fixed power. If I had a weak power, you could not get any distance, regardless of barrel position, and if the power is strong it is hard to hit anything close. This was the compromise I came up with. One thing that is open for change is the shooting method, and this could change to a method where you hold for more power instead. I will consider what it takes to do both, so you can toggle simple or advanced firing.

Crosshairs on the ground is another thing I have thought of implementing.

Rovingmind: Yes, I'm using blitz for this. I'm setting things up so that new levels can be added, but the format is changing a bit still. It should eventually be possible to add your own levels. more on this later, or PM me for more info.

[saint]

49 downloads so far.

[rovingmind]

Rovingmind: Yes, I'm using blitz for this. I'm setting things up so that new levels can be added, but the format is changing a bit still. It should eventually be possible to add your own levels. more on this later, or PM me for more info.

no need for the pm, i can wait, i dont have blitz at the moment.  once you settle your level formating i would like the info though. 

I really like this project

[Pongo]

You won't need Blitz to make the levels. I am using the Blitz format because it easily lets me store the things I need in the file.

From a mesh standpoint, I can also use the .3ds format, but then  I will need to change the way other things are done. Since this will be the easiest way to mod the game, it will probably be the format you will need to make your own levels.

Arena size will be important though,... if the arena is much larger it will be difficult to see the tanks when they are apart from each other.  I can post a .3ds file of the current arena size as a starting point.

Oh,... and to answer your other questions,... start button will be mapped same as MAME defaults,... can be changed like everything else in the ini. Also, you mentioned that you  could not see both tanks when they were at the opposite edges. This screenshot shows what you should be seeing,... is it different for you?

[rovingmind]

 the format doesnt matter to much to me, there is a maya exporter, deled 3d has one, there are enough options to work around that.  My screen cuts off the right 1/5 of the screen.  When one tank is all the way back against the left wall you cant see anything of the bottom right corner of the maze. 

I havnt played with to many options so i dont know if its my resolution setting or not.

As it plays, the easiest way to get away from an opponent is backwards.....  point the barrel the opposite way you want to go and fire shells as fast as possible.  You might want to limit how far back it rolls after a shot, maybe have it roll back, then roll back forward, like a recoil.  Might not have to have it roll as far back forward to keep it a noticeable force reaction.  As it is the tank moves faster that way than it does driving.

[unclet]

Well, I just tried your latest version on my "home" computer (previously tried it on my work computer only) and when I double-click the EXE file I get the following error which pops up (see pic).

I was trying to run the game from a directory in the "G:" drive ... see the error for the path.  I tried to run the EXE from my "C:" drive instead and when I do this then a black window pops up (like the game is going to start) but then just disappears., although no pop-up error window is seen when I tried it from the "C:" drive.  The pop-up error window is only seen when running from the "G:" drive.

Any ideas?  Possibly I have things installed on my home computer which might be inteferring  with your program (ie: Visual Basic 6.0, Microsoft Visual C++ package, etc...)

[Space Fractal]

I tried this game. I really like the name giving for this game type and seen to works very well.

I wish if I could set the shooting range, since It seen shooting a bit to short? This could been definable by the user <- Never mind.

Look like it should been able to limit the number of shoots simulate on the screen (maybe 1 or 2)?

Which type of music would you like to hear in that tank game?

Otherwice I just wait when I can release my little game (based on circus or clowns as called on some ports) here when the artist a day do finish the graphics (hence I have never annonced yet).

[Pongo]

Well that's not very good at all!

I have absolutely no idea what could be causing that.  It sounds like the graphics are not initializing, but you should get a different error if that happens. Let's start with these questions:

What operating system?
What version of Direct X?
Did the early version work on that machine?
Have you moved any files/subfolders around? Moving the whole game folder should be fine.
Have you changed the .ini? (specifically the screen resolution) Try setting the screen mode to something like 640x480, and not fullscreen.

I can't think of anything else at the moment. I can play it off any of my drives, including my thumb drive, which is F:

[unclet]

What operating system?

WinXP SP2

What version of Direct X?

DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)

Did the early version work on that machine?

This is the only version I have tried on this machine is the "ShellShock002a.zip"   I do not have an earlier version to try either.

Have you moved any files/subfolders around? Moving the whole game folder should be fine.

Nope ... simply unZIP'd the "ShellShock002a.zip" file and tried running the EXE

Have you changed the .ini? (specifically the screen resolution)

I have not changed the INI file at all and got the error.   Basically, just unZIP'd the file and tried running the EXE

Try setting the screen mode to something like 640x480, and not fullscreen.

I tried it .... same pop-up error window was seen   

[polaris]

i'll send a copy of ver 1 to your email address

[unclet]

Nope, does not work for me on my home computer.

When I start it it asks me whether I want Windowed Mode.   When I answer "Y" then the screen goes to black (like it isready to start the game), but then the window disappears .... thats it.   If I answer "N" and then answer the few questions which are asked, then the same thing happens ..... window goes black and disappears.

 


I tried both versions on my kid's computer (WinXP w/SP2, Pentium4(3.4Ghz), 1.5Gig RAM, DirectX 9.0c) and they work, but moving the tanks around is quite slow.

[Space Fractal]

Did you updated your graphics drivers on your home machine? For mee, it seen to been old graphics drivers and maybe a old direct9c version (there are many D9c versions out here, so make sure you install them all throuch www.microsoft.com/directX)?

The game works perfectly here (on a external D:\ drive) with a simular machine like your kids have, but its only when there are many particles on the screen, it can been a little bit slow.

That why I want some limits the number of shots on the screen at once. But it was nothing to distract the gameplay at all (etc I also played fine with 1280x1024 resoulution).

I look future when there is more develpement on this game.

[Pongo]

Since you are running XP SP2 I'm assuming it's not an ancient machine. That rules out issues with really old video cards. This game is using DX 7, so an older version of DX 9 should not be an issue.

I've done some searches in a development forum, and that error seems to be coming up in two situations,...

The first is a conflict with the DirectX SDK or using the Debug version of the DX runtime.  Installing Visual Basic, Visual C++, and/or The Direct X SDK seems to cause this, and the solution seems to be installing the retail version of direct X again.

The other situation is using an Intel 82915G/82910GL Express Chipset. Lots of Dells apparently have this chipset, and solution seems to be updated drivers.

I hope that your issue is one of these,... and sorry I do not have a real solution to the problem. I've never seen anything like it myself.

 

[unclet]

No worries ..... my machine has Visual Basic 6.0, the latest directX redistributable and the latest VisualC++ runtimes as well.   Perhaps these are causing troubles.   Although I do not have any of this on any of my arcade machines so I can play your game once completed.

I actually updated my machine with the latest directX redistributable and the latest VisualC++ runtimes so I could try out the NullDC emulator.  Did anyone else install these two things to try NullDC?  If so, then does this ShellShock demo work for you or not?

Thanks for the information.

[Pongo]

I guess it's good news that we know what the issue is. Sorry I can't fix that, since it seems to be an issue with the compiler itself. I will get the latest update for my compiler and see if that fixes anything for you. *hoping*

Progress report.

I've finished the main controls code completely now. This is not a visible change to you the end user, but it's huge for me because I can now create a new tank with a single line of code, specifying a controller (1-4) or 0 for AI.

Yup,... I've got 4 tanks up and running now. The 3rd and 4th tanks are running with the AI code. At this point there is a whole lot of "A" and not much "I", so they spaz around randomly running into things. It's kinda what my 3 year old plays like, so it's a fair fight!   NOTE: AI stuff is going to be put in much later, so this is really just the framework I need for later. Don't get too excited about this yet.

I've also worked out what I need to hold the button for shot power. I hope to get that code in tomorrow if possible.



 

[rovingmind]

the size of that second screen shot is the view mine shows fully zoomed out.  The multiple tanks in that looks fun.

[Pongo]

I'll be re-doing the camera code eventually, so I hope that fixes the problem for you. Is anyone else having that same problem? What resolution are you running? It would really help if I could get it to happen so I can fix it.

Progress report: I was out all day yesterday, and tonight my wife was hogging the computer until a bit ago, so not much new. I'm planning on getting the new 4 player inputs in the config, and then releasing that in a new version that fixes the few small things that came up with the last build, notably the tank body rotation thing, and the .ini file.


I've been looking around, and haven't seen anything for this,... is there a list of the default MAME mappings somewhere? I need the default inputs for P3 and P4 (up/down/left/right and buttons 1/2/3) EDIT: using the mappings for the IPAC 4,... assuming those are correct?

[polaris]

is this what you need

[Havok]

So where's the latest version? I hope you're not letting Real Life(tm) interfere with this most important task!

 

[briktop11b]

    Ive been following this for a while and i love what this game has become. I really like the way the firing physics are because like you said i dont think it would work well if it was accurate, it would be tuff to lobb, or hard to shoot close. I didnt notice it but please put the ability to insert coins on this because i have plans to build a cab with this game as the theme and i would love to have the ability to use tokens ( i think it would be a huge hit on poker night). Some type of high score, maybe winning streaks also , and maybe kills in a row or something like that. Thanks. Ill be checking in on this. Great work.

[Pongo]

Glad to hear some of you are still wanting more!

This week has been a bit brutal for me. Too many things getting in the way of my programming time. I was hoping to put in the new shooting code for the next release, but I'm not sure I'll get that in now.

I'll try to get a new release out this week still,... probably Friday again. there is a bunch of new stuff I'd like to get out there to you all.

Things that will be in for sure. (already in and working)
up to 4 players can play
You can set the other tanks to use AI. (They are really dumb at this point, but at least you can shoot at a moving target if you don't have a friend to play against)
Level has been tweaked a bit to make it larger front to back
Some shot and explosion sounds added
Shots now collide with walls.

[Minwah]

I only just saw this thread, looks really great so far! 

[rovingmind]

Yay at moving targets