Making a piece of Plexiglass illuminate

[BORIStheBLADE]

So I'm trying to get a whole piece of plexiglass illuminate. Does anyone have any bright ideas? I did a test with a sheet that I had. I got some sand paper and scuffed a area then put a red LED in different areas, but didn't have alot of success. Maybe I need a wide angle LED?

Thanks

[Kevin Mullins]

Have you tried along the "edge" of the plexi?
I believe it needs to be a nice clear polished edge though.
Maybe with a strip of EL wire along the length of the edge.

[tommy]

If you're going to light it up by the edge it does not need to be polished. Polishing it just makes it less clear and harder to see. An unpolished edge is more clear and can show light through it much better.

I guess it depends on the strength of the light and where it's positioned. You may need to have many lights depending on how big the glass is.

[Vash]

So I'm trying to get a whole piece of plexiglass illuminate. Does anyone have any bright ideas? I did a test with a sheet that I had. I got some sand paper and scuffed a area then put a red LED in different areas, but didn't have alot of success. Maybe I need a wide angle LED?

Thanks

I don't know the effect you're going for or how much room you have, but check out computer case mod sites.  There are foot long strips of florescent and neon lights that are used to light up the plexiglass on the sides of cases. 

[polaris]

a few more details are needed, are you trying to backlight a piece evenly?
the distance of the light source from the area is a factor the light needs didtance to spread out and wash the area, you can also get lighting filters that have an opaque finish , so you wouldnt need to sand in that case

[BORIStheBLADE]

Thanks for the tips guys. Yes I'm trying to illuminate it evenly, the dimensions would only be 10x30 inches roughly. I can't really put the light to far away from the plexi, I was trying to recreate the way they make buttons illuminate on computer cases and etc. The only problem is I'm dealing with something bigger.
Where can I find some lighting filters to check them out?

Just a quick thought... could I light it up with fiberoptic lighting somehow?
Could a cold cathode light illuminate a piece of plexi??

[Xb0x3r]

Why not pick up a cold cathode tube?

http://www.xoxide.com/coldcathodes.html

Xb0x3r

[M37R01D]

When we do pieces of plexi and we want certain parts or patterns to light up, we tape off the part we arent going to to let light hit, then sand in the areas you want to catch the light.
Once you have your pattern sanded out, and or the sides, drill 3mm holes in the edges and line them with leds and wire them up.
The final effect comes out pretty cool

[polaris]

from what youre saying , look at el wire, its very bright and you can coil it round to fill the area.
the lighting filter rosco , that link takes you to an order page for a free sample swatchbook.

i suggest buying an el wire evaluation kit( $20 or so), along with the gel samples you could work out how close the el wire needs to run next to itself to give an even wash on the plexi, the filter would be just under the plexi as far from the light source as possible. or you could also use two filters, one to spread the light(right next to the wire) ,one as a screen to wash the light onto(right next to the plexi). hope that makes sense, say if it doesnt.

look at mccoys poker table in the project announcements, he uses el paper, lot more costly but would give a hell of an effect.
 

[BORIStheBLADE]

I can't have anything come in from the edges because they are going to be jammed up to something. Can I get the same effect if I drill a hole in the face of plexi?

I took a look at Mccoys project, I think he used ELpaper. I spent some time looking at it, but don't think I can use it because I would have multiple holes in the plexi too.
I saw the ELwire, but didn't think that would work for my app.Whats this gel stuff your talking about? You can buy a gel that illuminates? Does it dry?

I'm trying to imagine how these filters would work. So if a light source emits light on them they glow alot? I tried to find an example online, but came up empty handed.

[polaris]

I can't have anything come in from the edges because they are going to be jammed up to something. Can I get the same effect if I drill a hole in the face of plexi?

I took a look at Mccoys project, I think he used ELpaper. I spent some time looking at it, but don't think I can use it because I would have multiple holes in the plexi too.
I saw the ELwire, but didn't think that would work for my app.Whats this gel stuff your talking about? You can buy a gel that illuminates? Does it dry?

I'm trying to imagine how these filters would work. So if a light source emits light on them they glow alot? I tried to find an example online, but came up empty handed.

sorry gel = filter (in the uk)
a 'frost' filter is opaque and will diffuse a light source, order a swatchbook and you'll see, its free.

[SavannahLion]

I think I must be missing something here. Why hasn't anyone suggested EL sheets?

I've been toying with ideas for this stuff for years. Have had samples sent from AGFA about ten years ago but never could build the transformer, now there's an entire market with everything you need.

[polaris]

still hungover? el paper = el sheet    i did mention it

[BORIStheBLADE]

I think I must be missing something here. Why hasn't anyone suggested EL sheets?

I've been toying with ideas for this stuff for years. Have had samples sent from AGFA about ten years ago but never could build the transformer, now there's an entire market with everything you need.

Can you put multiple hole in EL paper like a arcade CP?
I was under the impression you cant.

sorry gel = filter (in the uk)
a 'frost' filter is opaque and will diffuse a light source, order a swatchbook and you'll see, its free.

I just ordered it.


So I just got back from Fry's electronics which is my local computer mega store and they didn't have any cold cathode. Now CompUsa is gone so I guess I'm going to have to order it online. I would rather pick it up local so I can bring it back if it doesn't work.

[polaris]

all round the edge of el paper are + and _ve connections , im fairly sure you could cut it to any shape as long as one + and one - remain intact , mccoy has explained all of this in a thread well, i cant find it at the minute, dont think it was in the poker table thread but it may be.

can you elaborate on what your trying to achieve , it may help in providing a solution.
pm me if you wanna keep it secret for now, im sure i have an idea of what your trying to do , el paper could be the way if im guessing right, there is also el tape but with both there are considerations.

[SirPeale]

Check around here.  This company is owned by some buddies of mine.  They had a display that was quite similar to what you're describing.

[Kevin Mullins]

If you're going to light it up by the edge it does not need to be polished. Polishing it just makes it less clear and harder to see. An unpolished edge is more clear and can show light through it much better.

Ah.... kinda makes more sense now that I think about it as someone else mentioned sanding certain areas that they wanted to show up lit. Must a light refraction type property within the plexi. If the edge were polished clear then the light would just transfer straight through to the other side kinda like fiber optics. But the sanded edge refracts the light and spreads it across the surface area. Or something like that....

But now I wonder what the effect would be since in this case there are etched areas with in the surface area of the plexi. Would polishing the edge only allow the "etched" areas to refract the light and therefore only they show up lit?

Man.... wish I had some plexi laying around to play with now.

For his space constraints I really like the EL Sheet idea. That stuff looks cool too.
but I'm picturing that this would be more for a "backlit" effect right? Pretty evenly lit across the entire piece of plexi with minor difference in the etched areas?

[BORIStheBLADE]

Ya I'm looking to do some back lighting of somewhat. El sheets are really expensive in the size I would want.

[SavannahLion]

still hungover? el paper = el sheet    i did mention it

Here's a Google for EL paper and a Google for EL Sheets. I had a hang over, what was your excuse? 

[polaris]

still hungover? el paper = el sheet    i did mention it

Here's a Google for EL paper and a Google for EL Sheets. I had a hang over, what was your excuse? 

my excuse is i know the difference between singular and plural.

[SavannahLion]

still hungover? el paper = el sheet    i did mention it

Here's a Google for EL paper and a Google for EL Sheets. I had a hang over, what was your excuse? 

my excuse is i know the difference between singular and plural.

Doh! 

 

[BORIStheBLADE]

So I found a local shop that had cold cathode lights. They only had blue and yellow which sucks but I got the yellow for testing then I'll bring it back.

I got a leftover piece of plexi and in one section I scuffed both sides and the other section I scuffed only one side. You can tell by the picture which is which. I glows alot better in person and if I get some diffusers it would be better too.

[polaris]

dont forget you will get coloured filters in that swatchbook. can you get a white bulb, you can easily choose the coour then.

[BORIStheBLADE]

Ya, I'm going to bring this yellow one back and order two white ones and wait and see what those filters you suggested do..

[BORIStheBLADE]

I ran another test.

[SirPeale]

If you're looking to get the imperfections in the plexi to show up, you need to have the illumination on the edge of the plexi, not behind it.  The plexi acts as a light pipe, and the imperfections (scratches) will stand out.

[BORIStheBLADE]

If you're looking to get the imperfections in the plexi to show up, you need to have the illumination on the edge of the plexi, not behind it.  The plexi acts as a light pipe, and the imperfections (scratches) will stand out.

Ya, but with what I'm trying to do I don't think I can put anything in the sides. The edges are going to be exposed.
 

[RandyT]

I can't seem to figure out the effect you are after.  If you just want the panel to illuminate evenly, you are going to have to ditch the clear and go with white plexi.  Even then, you will need to arrange your lighting evenly behind it to minimize "hot spots."

FWIW, you should consider the effort and use of specialized optical components put into the design of LCD panel backlighting, as it relates to what you are doing. 

A little more info on the effect you are attempting to achieve might yield better input from the group.

RandyT

[BORIStheBLADE]

FWIW, you should consider the effort and use of specialized optical components put into the design of LCD panel backlighting, as it relates to what you are doing. 

RandyT

This is basically what I'm trying to do. What I'm trying to do is put backlighting on a CP overlay. Certain things on a CP overlay I would like to back light. I'm trying to figure out the most converional way of doing this.

[RandyT]

That makes it easier

First, use white plexiglas (acrylic).  Next, have an overlay printed on material that will allow light to pass through it where it's not too densely printed.  You may need solid blacks in area you don't want to illuminate.  You may also want to look at a black vinyl mask to prevent light from coming through where you don't want it.  Then just create some openings in the panel material that line up with the parts you want to illuminate (while keeping the strength of the panel intact) and light from below.

But if you want the entire panel to light, you are fighting the laws of physics if you intend to use anything other than a surface lighting technique like EL panel.  And while these are pretty cool, they tend to have longevity issues, are very expensive, require high voltage, and the white ones are usually pink when not lit (it's been a while, maybe that has changed now?)

RandyT

[BORIStheBLADE]

That makes it easier

  Then just create some openings in the panel material that line up with the parts you want to illuminate (while keeping the strength of the panel intact) and light from below.


RandyT

You mean holes ? The one issue I see with this is if I want to illuminate halos it might not work this way.

[RandyT]

You mean holes ? The one issue I see with this is if I want to illuminate halos it might not work this way.

Sure it would.  See the part where I wrote about the use of a black vinyl mask.

RandyT

[BORIStheBLADE]

OK hold on I'm a little confused. I need to back up a bit. Going with white plexi would give me the best glowing effect right? If the white plexi is glowing why would I need to put holes in the plexi to get light?

[bfauska]

I think he meant holes or "openings" in the black masking material. If you want some of the panel to be completely unlit then you need to completely block the light from them, hence the black masking. Where you do want to see light you would need to remove the masking.

[BORIStheBLADE]

I think he meant holes or "openings" in the black masking material. If you want some of the panel to be completely unlit then you need to completely block the light from them, hence the black masking. Where you do want to see light you would need to remove the masking.

That makes sense.

thanks

[RandyT]

I also stated "holes in the panel material", not in the acrylic, etc.  That means openings in whatever your control panel material is (wood, metal, etc...I don't believe you specified)

RandyT

[BORIStheBLADE]

Now I understand .
I found this place about 5 minutes from my house. I'm going to go in there and talk to them tomorrow.

http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/category.php?bid=24&

[Afterburner]

I think you want an edge-lit panel for what you are attempting.

You don't have to polish the edge.  You can take a small torch (or lighter if you prefer) and clear up the edges all you want.  I've done this on several projects.

Usually I just cut the plexi on the table saw.  Sand the edges with 120grit paper to smooth off any edges.  You don't need it super smooth either, just a couple or three quick passes is fine.

Then take the torch and carefully run the flame along the edge.  It melts the surface just enough for the material to run together and flash.  You are left with a crystal clear edge.

By the way, this also works for screw holes or countersinks as well.

I'd try a string of mini-LEDs along the edge, or maybe several edges.

Another effect you might give a try....

Mask off areas you want to remain clear.  Then sandblast the panel.  You get a very nice frosted look on the exposed areas.  This is nice because you get clean edges between the frosted and clear portions of the panels.  And if you print off decals or other complex patterns to use as the masks, you can end up with some really nice looking designs.

I did this for a friend.  He wanted a nice looking panel on a gun case.  He was a former US Marine and wanted their emblem on it.  I got a nice hi-res image of the emblem and printed it out on decal paper.  I carefully cut it out and applied it to the plexi.  Sandblasted the whole thing, removed the decal, and it looked great.  Wish I'd had a picture of it.

[Kevin Mullins]

For those that haven't seen this thread yet in the project announcements..... this is a perfect example of the edge lit etched acrylic control panel art effect that I was trying to describe earlier. (I could visualize it in my head anyways)

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75411.0

[BORIStheBLADE]

For those that haven't seen this thread yet in the project announcements..... this is a perfect example of the edge lit etched acrylic control panel art effect that I was trying to describe earlier. (I could visualize it in my head anyways)

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75411.0

Thanks for the link.
Its kind of what I'm going for except not seeing the plexiglass.
All this stupid test I was trying to do and realized I don't need to illuminate the plexi.
 I put one of my marquee's over a clear piece of plexi and got the effect I wanted. I ordered a piece of plexi 12"x36"x3/4" and once I finish my CP overlay I'll throw up some pictures.