Dr. Mame - Portable Control Panel

[Xiaou2]

 Happy Holidays 

 
   Sadly, life has took some rough turns for me lately...  and so finances are not
available for uber big projects...  so I realize that it may be a long time before
my huge cab design will be realized.   

 Until then,  I do have most of the parts to make a temp panel...   so I think I will
at least build that for now.

 One thing that I would like, is to be able to take the panel over to friends homes...
but, at the same time... I dont like to lose the ability to play as many as the classics
as possible... and with the correct controllers.

 So, the title  'Dr. Mame'  is somewhat fitting...  as it may be like a Mad Scientist like
panel / briefcase unit.

 
 One thing I did realize long ago... is that the typical  Frank-n-Panel  has its drawbacks...
Usually in comfort and playability.    For if the controllers are too far away from you, it
will really strain you,  and you will tire too quickly.   

 The other problem is  Trackball space.    A game like  Marble Madness  required furious
fast rolls of the ball to make the time limits.   If you roll hard and fast,  you may end up
smacking you hands into other controls that are nearby.  (or even the monitor glass)   


 So, my Idea was to sort of  Divide the panel into Two sides.     That way,  all controls
are within reasonable grasps of each other - from either side you play from.


 Heres the rough Idea Sketch:  (which should be pretty much the correct scale)


 (Current Dimentions:   19"  x   35"  )


(my designs are not to be used commercially without my express written and
signed permission)

[Xiaou2]

 Ok, what you have from the bottom up:

2 Spinners  mounted horizontally  for  Racing and Spinner games.

2 Flip-Up  Trackball Units.    (This solves the extra space needed   )

2 Wico 8way  LEAF  Joysticks   (for the best possible  Robotron  Sessions)

2 Happ Comp's.    (General Fighters and others)

1 Wico Leaf  BUTTON   (for classic fast shoot games)
7 Happ Micros  (arranged for  Neo Geo and Street Fighter type setups)


 Now - to play the rest,  you simply flip the panel to the other side:


2   8way  Rotary       sticks
2   Dedicated 4way  sticks   (for best control in  Pac Man and other classics)
2   Analog Trigger    sticks   (Any analog or flight game)
2   Digital  Trigger    sticks   (Assault,  and other classics )
2   More spinners

 Why 4 spinners?    Well,  for one.. there was no way to have the spinners reach
both sets of controls.     They were mounted on the side - so as not to take up
hand and arm space needed for comfort.     But the best part.. is that by turning the
panel  90 degrees to the monitor...  4 people can play  Warlords  or  Supersprint
type games.

 

[Xiaou2]

Now,  if you notice,   you can see that both  Digital and Analog  sticks seem to
overlap the other controls...    But those sticks are very tall,  and will not really
be in the way of the other controls.   If for any reason they are a hair short,  I
could always make a small raised platform for the bases of them.

 The only thing that I can see not being usable is a combination of a Trigger Stick
and a Trackball.    I think there is only one game that used it..  but if anyone else knows
any more... Id be curious to know what Id be losing. 

 Also..  Im not sure if any games need dual  4 ways.   I just popped 2 in there for
now...   but I still have to do more research.     Also, if there are any other games I
could not play well..  Please post them and why.    Id like to finalize this as close
as possible.

  The Main Buttons  should be able to be reached fairly easily by either side.   However,
I might choose to add a few more buttons that are closer for certain areas.   I still have to
make a test mockup panel to make sure of things.

 Any comments, ideas, questions...etc..  please post.   Thanks

 

[Xiaou2]

 Additional Things not shown /  Other  Ideas ...

1)  Carry Handle that pops out of the side of the frame  (?)
2)  Headphone Jacks  (?)
3)  Vibration (bass-shakers)  (?)
4)  Possible Mini Pot wheel   w/   Return to center spring
5)  Pedal  'Input ports'
6)  LCD Topgun holders bottom mounted?
7)  USB ports (for 3rd & 4th players gamepads)  ?
8 )  Integrated PC  (?)
9)  Removable  Snap-Lock  top cover ?
10)  Pinball buttons / Plunger / Sensors.. etc.
11)  Internal Fans with external Air holes that Cool players hands
12)  Admin Buttons (hacked micro mini usb  keypad that pops out ?)

[Jimbo]

Hi there!

Nice ambitious project! 

One question... with the spinners... if you are mounting them on the sides, and maybe using them for racing games, are you thinking of using the GGG TT2 spinners with the mini-racer wheels?  If so I'd be concerned that the mini-racing wheels would actually stay on the spinner knob as you play (probably much easier to pull them off if the CP sides are dead vertical to the floor).  Maybe it would work better if you angled the sides 45 degrees or something, so gravity has more effect (and the spinners would probably be easier to use too).

 

[Xiaou2]

  I would need to use a low profile Spinner,  and Randys spinners look good to fit the
bill.   Currently,  I think I will have to make my own temporary spinners until I can afford his
spinners.

 However, I wouldnt use a  Mini wheel.   I believe there should be enough weight
for good spin without them.   

 IMOP,  mini wheels are not too safe for a shaft diameter that most spinners use.  A little too
much pressure or force could bend the shaft.     
 
 I still might angle the spinners slightly.  Not sure yet.   I know volume controls
are easy enough to use, and they are not angled...  so it shouldnt really be an issue.

 Thanks for the comments

[Xiaou2]

Well,  I went thru the Mame list quickly,  viewing control panels.   From
what I can see so far,  Ive got a good majority of functionality.

 However...  I have a small thorn in my side..  as two games that I like
will not work with this setup.

 In Karate Champ  2 player version -  there are 2 sets of 4 way sticks.
I only have one set.   Maybe it will play ok with 8 ways.   I will have to test it.

 But worse is  SDI.    Which needs Trackballs + trigger sticks.   
In my setup,  the Trigger sticks are nowhere near the trackballs.   

 I might have to try to tweak some things...   but then again,  it might just
stay as is.

[Green Giant]

Quote from your panel: 

"I am not a Frankenstein. I'm a Fronkensteen. Don't give me that. I don't believe in fate. And I won't say it. [pauses] All right, you win. You win. I give. I'll say it. I'll say it. I'll say it. DESTINY! DESTINY! NO ESCAPING THAT FOR ME! DESTINY! DESTINY! NO ESCAPING THAT FOR ME!"

[DaveMMR]

So wait... how is this thing portable?   You're going to carry around a control panel that's the size of a small child (or a tall midg... err... little person)?   Van Halen has less gear to haul around than you.

I'm not trying to be insulting but if you're building a stand-along panel, why not build a couple of individual panels instead of cramming it all onto one?   It justs looks very, very "busy" (analog AND digital trigger sticks?!).

[Xiaou2]

 Be realistic.   Its not 'that' big... And the comment about Van Halen is ludicrous.   The
Amp/Speakers that such musicians carry around much heavier and bulkier. 

 How is carrying multiple smaller units going to be better?!   That would be more
troublesome to carry more units in/out of the car.   It would also be more work to
create, and need more money for additional buttons and other materials.

 And what does 'Looks' have anything to do with?   Its called  Functionality.   My tablesaw
may not look like a million bucks... but it does its job just fine. 

 Some people dont take their games serious.  They dont mind if they playing Pacman
with an 8way,  and they die occasionally because of a directional mishap that wouldnt
occur with a real 4 way.   For me, games like Robotron  and  Sinistar  are worthless to
play without the proper controls.   I could care less is the panel looks like a work of art. 
Its how it plays that counts most.   The Game and its special controls are the true Art.

 Why analog and digital sticks?

 Flight games require Analog sticks, and do not play well with Digital controls.
 
 Yet the 'Throw' on an analog stick is too great for fast moving Digital games...
meaning...  you have to move the stick twice as far to get to the outside edges.  This
results in slower reaction times.    Analogs also have a different resistance,  as they
take more effort to move around.

 Many sacrifice not only playability... but also lose out in other ways all for the sake
of Looks.  One such sacrifice is a game like Supersprint without all 3 spinners.   The
game is most fun when there are as many human players as possible.    Some
cant even play certain games such as Mad Planets... because they choose not to install
an 'Unsightly'  trigger stick.   Quite sad,  because its a very fun and unique game.

 If I had the extra money,  I would probably make the entire thing in 1/2" thick
plexi.   Showing all the controls and wires..  and maybe lit with a few leds here and
there.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I think you should take a second look at the playability of the rotary sticks.
You are going to be stuck using buttons that are over half way across the CP, and having to use them with your left hand.

Also, you don't have any gas and nitro buttons easily available for the 4 steering wheels.

And lastly, you might want to consider pinball buttons on one end, if you're into pinball games.

[Xiaou2]

Hi NoOne,

  Im still deciding about the 4way + Rotary + Trigger-stick  placements.

 I believe the distance to the center of the panel is 9"  which isnt that much of
a stretch... so shouldnt be a problem.    I will have to test panel it to make sure tho.

 Most Monster panels do not flip around so that you can have access to the other side..  so
many of them have you reaching 3/4th the control panel - which is just way too far
for comfort.   (Also having too many controllers in the pathway of where your arms
should rest)   

 I still might add a few buttons on the other side tho.    Hmm,  maybe side mounted pinball
buttons will be enough to solve that too.    Might have to also make a middle indent for the
right flipper button - cause the CP seems too long to have each flipper on opposite sides.

 thanks for the ideas and comments

[DaveMMR]

Its not 'that' big... And the comment about Van Halen is ludicrous.   The
Amp/Speakers that such musicians carry around much heavier and bulkier. 

It was a sarcastic exaggeration.  Yes, we know the typical equipment required for a rock concert is no comparison to a 35 X 19 control panel.  No need to point it out.   

And sorry, looks are a bit important - or should I say "aesthetics".  You're going to bring this to a friend's house and you think they're going to know what to do with anything in that jungle of joystick options? I see joysticks on top of joysticks on top of hideaway trackballs.   I know you want to make zero concessions when playing your games, but now you're "enjoying" your game with a million things in your way.

I'm not down on trying to be down on authenticity, but I think you'd be better off either (a) a self contained rotating unit or (b) some sort of modular set-up when you can swap out parts as you need them and you're not digging through trigger sticks to get to your spinner.   Actually, option (b) is much more portable as you can make some sort of carrying or storage case for the spare parts.   

[Havok]

When you go this route for authentic controls, you always lose out with usability. I would go with DaveMMR's suggestion - some kind of modular design that allows for a cleaner panel, depending on the game played, and more fun experience for you and the uninitiated...

On a side note - I have dubbed this the "penis panel" - looks like you have 4 limp ones going on there...

 

[Turnarcades]

In my opinion, I think this is way too complex as a 'temporary project'.

I build arcade machines as a profession, and can seriously say that the majority of the cost is in the control panel. Couple this with the amount of fine work required for a good finish and the sheer mountain of wiring, and it can also be the part that takes the most time.

If you already hve all the parts you need, you're better off building a full-size panel that you can incorporate into a cabinet when room becomes available. This kind of 'compacting project' is more suited to later projects for people who have built one and want a fresh challenge. It would be interesting to see from a regular builder, but I think the time you put into it would have you wishing you just threw in a few more chips and done it on your big machine.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I believe the distance to the center of the panel is 9"  which isnt that much of
a stretch... so shouldnt be a problem.

I was more worried about the left-hand part of it, than the distance.
I know how important authentic feel is to you, so having your hands at two different depths on the CP will probably bug you--especially now that I mentioned it.

Might have to also make a middle indent for the
right flipper button - cause the CP seems too long to have each flipper on opposite sides.

That's why I was suggesting using one end for pinball.
19" is a little narrow, but much better than 35", unless you modify it, like you were mentioning.

[Xiaou2]

Dave,

  If Im at a friends house,   I will be there showing its functionality - and playing along.

 Modular is more complex for people to grasp... and to deal with.

 Modular also means that anytime you want to play a very different game,  you have a
lot of work to do to swap everything just right.    I dont want to spend my time swapping
controls...  Id rather play anything I want  'on the fly' .

 And finally,  If Ive laid it out as good as I think..  there will not be anything  'in the way'.


 samshaw946,

 As for Complexity,  its not really complex at all.    I dont have to make it look great.   My friends
arent so anal that they will not tolerate a non-work of art in their homes     

 The cost of my wooden box and wire will not even come close to the cost of all the controls that
I have in it.    In fact, I already have the wood and wire available.   I dont need anything but a simple
coat of black for the paint.   I wont even need any T-molding.    Remember, I said 'Temporary'.

 My 'BIG' Complex cab design will be much more work and the cab WILL cost quite a bit due
to the specialized design I have in mind.   I dont have the money nor time, and wont for a while... so this
is the best option.


 NoOne,

    Yes, I thought to myself..  if I can play robotron with the both hands at the same time... maybe playing
a rotary game with the left wont be as bad as I thought.   However,  I may shift the sticks around anyways.
 
  Two different hand depths wont bother me.   Its lack of control that bothers me.. and that really
has no bearing on game control.   So long as the distance is not too great as to cause discomfort from
stretching too far...  all should be fine.


 As for the pinball idea -  I didnt realize you meant the short ends.. and that makes a lot of sense     Thanks
for that great Idea

 
 Havok,

   Tron sticks may look strange from a top view... However,  I wonder if maybe you just see  Penis  wherever
you look?           


 

[DaveMMR]

Dave,

  If Im at a friends house,   I will be there showing its functionality - and playing along.

Yeah... that gets old quick.  Take it from someone who just has to constantly remind people how to exit out even though it's printed right there on the menu. 

The one plus with modular though (I'm starting to sound like Doc) is that if you want those "authentic controls", you don't have to stop when your panel's space dwindles.  Star Wars Yolk, 270 degree wheel, 720 controller, all that stuff. 

But whatever, it's your project - good luck with it.  If your hard set on doing it this way, give it a go.

[leapinlew]

Any comments, ideas, questions...etc..  please post.   Thanks

Looks like a disaster. Good luck with your project - you going to make a Project Announcement?

[Xiaou2]

Dave,

   There will always be some sort of compromises.   The question is how many..  and what can one live with.

    For instance,  Id Love to see you carry around a box full of separated parts (modules) such as a
Full starwars yoke,  720,  270 wheel,  and everything else Ive already added.   
That wouldnt be anywhere near portable,  nor easy in any way at all.   

 Modules = Theft ,  More possible damages to each part , Module Loss ,  Not easy to transport all modules needed , 
Hard for others to understand swapping ,  Pain to re-construct the panels every time there is a different game to be
played.   Possible module cord / connector damages.  Pain to make all those specialized connectors.

 Modular may be a solution for home panel setups... but its not ideal for transport.   


 leapinlew,

 Thanks         Im still tweaking the Idea.   Once its finalized, I will start a Project announcement thread.

[DaveMMR]

 Modules = Theft ,  More possible damages to each part , Module Loss ,  Not easy to transport all modules needed , 
Hard for others to understand swapping ,  Pain to re-construct the panels every time there is a different game to be
played.   Possible module cord / connector damages.  Pain to make all those specialized connectors.

You didn't mention the downsides to the humongous panel.  Specifically: hernia.   

But methinks your contradicting yourself a bit.  You say there are "compromises" but the reason for the joystick overload is because, you said, that you don't like to compromise.  At what point do you draw the line and say "this is just a big mess of joysticks"?    If you want the rotary joysticks, you can use them as regular 8-ways too.  How many games need two trigger sticks per player that you'll be finding yourself playing enough to justify their existence. 

I know where you're coming from.  I was "Mr. Two-Trackball" for the longest time until I took a step back and realized that no one is going to go out of their way to play Marble Madness with me. 

[Xiaou2]

Im not sure the weight... but I think it wont be that bad.   Wheels might come into play
if so   heh

 Again.. . the Compromises have specific goals.     Rotary sticks are not the best for other 8way
games.   Certain sticks are designed much better and perform better specific to certain games. 

 I have to say... that the SNK sticks I have are much better 8ways than the crappy Happs
optical rotarys (which are based off  'Supers'  )..  so they have potential for such a
replacement to the Comps.   However, Im not so sure I really like them enough for
frequent 8way use.

 One of my favorite Dual Trigger game is Assault.   It uses digitals.     
 However, there are games the need analog sticks too...    Dual analog?   Maybe not many.   But
if you have to put at least one analog on there... and 2 digitals...   Might as well add the
2nd analog for the few games where its needed,  Or,  where 2 player tank games could be
controlled with one player playing the digitals & the other using the analogs.

 And Dave,   there are other Dual trackball games to play besides Marble Madness.   One is
called  Rampart,   and is a really fun game.   There are many others:

Dual Trackballs - Marble Madness, CABAL, Rampart, Atari Basketball -Football -Baseball and Soccer. Ataxx. Dunk shot, Tehkan World Cup, Arcade Classics, Blades of Steel,  Boot Camp,  Combat School, SDI, Gridiron Fight, Major League, Pound for Pound, Sonic the Hedgehog,
Spiker, Street Football,  and probably more that I have not found yet.

[DaveMMR]

And Dave,   there are other Dual trackball games to play besides Marble Madness.   One is
called  Rampart,   and is a really fun game. 

That's three trackballs actually.  Same with Sonic the Hedgehog.     For those, having two trackballs is only slightly better than having one.

And c'mon, you actually going to play Atari Football, Atari Baseball, Atari Soccer, or Atari Basketball for more than 2 minutes before you realize there's literally hundreds of better representations of these sports in MAME? 

Even if you played all of them, that's like 22 games out of a few thousand that benefit from multiple trackballs.  Not remove the relics from 1979.  Next, ask yourself: is the benefits of playing Ataxx or SDI worth the double trackballs?  How about Gridiron Fight?  By the time you really dissect it, there's less than 4 games that you'll be glad you had two trackballs for (not Rampart, you'll wish you had three). 

[Xiaou2]

 In the past,  I might say that 'no'  I wouldnt be excited to play Atari Football.    However,   my friend
got one in his classic arcade...  and gave me a few free credits on it.    I didnt think I would be impressed
nor excited... but I was wrong.    Using a trackball to Run was really fun.   I was also a real workout.. cause
the trackballs on the machine were like 5" diameter.   I had really worked up a sweat,  and had a great time 

 So Yes, I will be playing such games.

 And for me..  its not just the quantity that matters.   For example..  Robotron is ONE game...  yet there is
no way in hell Id do without being about to play it on my panel.
 
 And then there is the historical aspect, as well as just plain having something Different to play.   The original
'Sprint'  games may not compare to the Supersprint...  however,   they are still fun challenging games to play.

 As for SDI,  I played a version of it on my SMS,  and had great fun with it.   I recall only testing it once in mame
cause I didnt have a nice setup to play it at the time.   Obviously, its much better than the SMS version,
and I know I will have a good time playing it.   Especially with 2 players at the same time.

 Rampart - while 3 may be more fun...   2 players is better than 1, or none.

  (and yes, I knew those machines had 3.  I posted as 2 simply to say that they fit into the dual
trackball category.    As in '2 or more'. )