Got the SF2 Cab home - starting the build...

[rhuel]

Well, I got the cabinet home tonight and it is not the best cabinet conversion ever made by any stretch. Definitely not a restore candidate. It is a Taito cabinet with a tempered glass display cover. The monitor was burned in pretty badly and it had a bad PCB, so all of the guts have been removed prior to me bringing it home. The harness is kind of spooky. At the JAMMA connector there are some wires on the harness side that are cut at about 1" from the connector. All of the connections were already disconnected when I got there to pick it up, so I don't know where things are supposed top plug in. Some of the wires in other locations appear to have been cut as well. All I'm planning to use from the cabinet are the controls and the harness if it's still good.

After pulling the bezel out and the cardboard with the graphics, I noticed there was black paint on the underside of the glass. I'm not too sure why it would have ever been painted, but I scraped the paint and cleaned the glass and it looks much better now. It also appears to have quite a bit of monitor/TV room in there. The bezel is larger than the face of the 25" TV I'm thinking of cannibalizing for the project. I found a site that sells a converter box (http://www.svideo.com/svideocoax.html) to go from S-Video to RF/Coax connector (which is all the TV has as an input). Has anyone ever used one of these or put a 25" TV in a cabinet this size? What all aside from creating a sturdy mounting setup needs to be considered when attempting this?

Since this harness is questionable (unless all of them are hacked), would it be a good idea to buy a new JAMMA harness from Ultimarc while getting the JPAC? The CP wires are all soldered onto the joysticks/buttons.

I've been able to get an XP box to run MAMAEWAH and MAME without issue. I've also got a Linux box to run Wah!Cade and SDLMAME with no issues.  I'm thinking the converter box would take care of any video card driver, refresh rates, and resolution issues so whatever flavor of OS doesn't matter to me.

Suggestions/input appreciated. Below are some pics.

















And the TV innerds...

[mrserv0n]

how much did it cost?

[tommy]

I have a great SF2 Hyper Fighting pcb that would work great in that cab if you need one. 

[rhuel]

how much did it cost?

$100

I have a great SF2 Hyper Fighting pcb that would work great in that cab if you need one. 

Gutted cab. No internals at all aside from harness. Thanks for the offer though.

[Malenko]

I've seen worse conversions. $100 is about what I would expect to spend on it, looks sturdy enough

[shardian]

A 25" tv will probably stick out the back more than a bit. Keep that in mind.

Those cabinets are really neat. Mine is TINY compared to the Xevious it always sits beside. It can look really good if you clean it up real good.
Take a look at Knievels Taito MAME for inspiration:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=65678.msg661644#msg661644

[rhuel]

A 25" tv will probably stick out the back more than a bit. Keep that in mind.

Those cabinets are really neat. Mine is TINY compared to the Xevious it always sits beside. It can look really good if you clean it up real good.
Take a look at Knievels Taito MAME for inspiration:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=65678.msg661644#msg661644

That cab is extremely nice looking!!

The 25" TV tube I think will be a close fit on the back side due to the angle of the display in this cab. I need to get a definitive guide to discharging the tube before unbolting it from its housing and mocking it up in the cab. The cab size is ~23x23 and my tube measures ~21x17 on the backside with the plastic off. The circuit board on the end of the tube (sorry, I don't know terminology yet) is about 20" deep. It's gonna be very close to hitting the door on the back. That issue can be worked with a small protruding "bumpout" on the back door if needed.

I could use some advice on the harness. Ultimarc offers a complete JAMMA harness, but is out of stock. Do these harnesses have wires cut by default or should all wires go somewhere from each connector?

Next, since I'm only using the CP from this cab, would it be best to get a JPAC and a new harness (if they become available) or an IPAC and wire it manually in case this harness is shot.

I may have to trace CP wiring through the harness and see if continuity exists all the way to the JAMMA connector.

I think I figured out what my cabinet started life as...I pulled the Cp up and saw a Taito 1987 marking. After digging around, I noticed the markings on the sides of the coin door are a perfect match for Arkanoid.

[shardian]

Yours is green, so it was probably a Jungle Hunt.

Anyways, if you are careful you don't have to discharge the monitor. You just have to be careful where you touch it.

Since you are using a TV, you have no need for a Jpac. Get an Ipac and run new wiring to the controls.

Another thing you can do to buy space for the monitor is follow Kneivels route and make a plywood monitor mount and drop the monitor into it. Taito was so nice to supply you with 2x4's on which you can just slide your monitor shelf right on to.  ;)This will have the monitor sitting a bit closer to the glass and may buy you the inch or so you need. It will be interesting to see a 25" monitor in a Taito cabinet.

[rhuel]

Where can the tv tube be touched and not touched...I really don't want to find out by trial and error.

I had intended on making a frame fro the TV to fit into then attach the frame to the existing rails. I just need to have the tube out of it's plastic to fit something up. I'm kinda concerned about getting dead.

The TV hasn't been plugged in for about 4 or 5 weeks, but I've read they can hold a "lethal" charge for months.

Also, ever hear of anyone using an S-Video converter? What other methods are available to get signal from a PC into a coax only TV?

[ahofle]

You should try hooking that TV up to a PC with an RF converter before you do anything else.  You may not even find the picture to be acceptable -- RF is pretty much the worst possible video connection you could have. The arcade monitor may look better even with the screen burn.

EDIT: nevermind I see now that the chassis was removed.

[rhuel]

You should try hooking that TV up to a PC with an RF converter before you do anything else.  You may not even find the picture to be acceptable -- RF is pretty much the worst possible video connection you could have. The arcade monitor may look better even with the screen burn.

EDIT: nevermind I see now that the chassis was removed.

Very good advice. Thanks. The pic quality really stunk overall with the RF converter. It was a pain to get the resolution set right under linux and even worse in windows. There were black lines at the top and bottom, and at 640x480 the refresh rate was at 53 instead of 60 and that was all I could get it to do. There was a bunch of flicker on the top 3 inches of the screen. Images looked ok, but text on wah!cade and mamewah was "double visioned" and there were green diagonal, horizontal lines that were very noticeable on a dark background.

I tore apart the 27" RCA TruFlat TV that has S-Video inputs to see if the tube might fit. It was about an inch or so too wide.

I swapped the Philips 201B 21" CRT (20" viewable) from the kids room with the IBM 17" I use on my test/build machines. It looked great, so I pulled the cover off, unbolted it from the plastic and mocked it up into the metal frame that was used to mount the original monitor chassis. I will have to build a wooden frame around it to secure it well enough, but at least I got to see how it will fit. It's late, I'm tired and I've spent countless hours so far thinking and tinkering with this.

Glad I tried the converter before settling on using the 25" TV.

Here are some pics of the mock up. Should this thread be in the build/projects section? I didn't see that section till after I posted this. Sorry.

[Kajoq]

Just a heads up, both www.lizardlick.com  and www.jammaboards.com Have jamma harnesses on thier sites.  I got one from jamma boards a month or two back

[rhuel]

Just a heads up, both www.lizardlick.com  and www.jammaboards.com Have jamma harnesses on their sites.  I got one from jamma boards a month or two back

Thanks for the links. I didn't know about lizardlick.com. I saw the harnesses on jammaboards.com, but wasn't sure of the benefit to getting a JPAC now that I'm only going to need to wire up controls and not the monitor. Wouldn't an IPAC be more suited to what I'm doing? I don't have any "fear" issues of wiring or soldering if wires are cut between the CP and JAMMA connector. I think I'll start with plugging in the CP connectors and tracing/checking continuity back to each button/joystick.

I still have a LONG way to go on this. Thanks for the advice so far everyone. I'm sure I'll be asking more questions and revising the plan as I go along. Hopefully not too many revisions are in the future. 

[Kajoq]

Yeah if you're just going the TV route, definitely do an Ipac over a JPAC.

I ended up replacing the Jamma harness in the SF3 machine I bought because it was a huge clusterfark or splicing and brittle wires.  Instead of using a proper kick harness they had spliced a 3rd player harness and done all sorts of other crazy things.  Also I still use jamma boards every now and then instead of my MAME box.

Ipac would be a much simpler solution for you though

[rhuel]

Yeah if you're just going the TV route, definitely do an Ipac over a JPAC.

I ended up replacing the Jamma harness in the SF3 machine I bought because it was a huge clusterfark or splicing and brittle wires.  Instead of using a proper kick harness they had spliced a 3rd player harness and done all sorts of other crazy things.  Also I still use jamma boards every now and then instead of my MAME box.

Ipac would be a much simpler solution for you though

Cool thanks for clarifying.

I managed to discharge the monitor and separate the neck board and power so I can work with the tube a little easier. Now to find a scrap 2'x2' piece of mdf or plywood to make a good support.

[shardian]

You can buy a 1/4 sheet of plywood at Home Depot for like $4. That is what I did for the monitor board.

[rhuel]

You can buy a 1/4 sheet of plywood at Home Depot for like $4. That is what I did for the monitor board.

Picked up a scrap 3x4 chunk of OSB from a friend. Should work out nicely. If only there were more hours in a day.

[rhuel]

Another question...

Can the wires connecting to the neck board and the red one with the "suction cup" be lengthened (cut wires, add some length and solder) to accommodate a better mounting position, ie farther away from the tube on a separate board? There really isn't anything to support the power/input panel of the monitor once it's de-cased and I thought relocating these components would be a good solution.

I'm thinking of making a wooden panel with all the PC components and the monitor components attached. Are there better ways to accomplish what I'm describing?

[shardian]

Common sense is screaming that you really shouldn't do that with a neck board. I've never heard of anyone doing it, and odds are its not safe at the least. Post a new thread in the monitor forums and ask that. Extremely knowledgeable guys like Ken Layton will acknowledge you.

[FrizzleFried]

I would be much less worried about lengthening the neckboard wires and MUCH more worried about lengthening the anode wire.  There are tens of thousands of volts traveling that wire.

[rhuel]

Maybe I wasn't clear on the neckboard. I didn't mean to move the neckboard to another location, it seems it HAS to be mounted directly to the rear of the tube. My idea was to lengthen the anode wire and the other wires that attach from the input board (not sure of it's proper name, but it's where power comes in and rgb/vga connector hooks up) to the neckboard.

Seems as if there shouldn't be a big concern if a wire is 8" long or 18" long if it is properly insulated, even if there are thousands of volts running through it.

I'll post over in the monitor section and see what experts say about it. I surely am no expert. That's why I'm asking.

Thanks again.

[rhuel]

I just looked over a few options with the neck board attached. I moved the board to the inside wall of the cabinet and if mounted 2 or 3 inches away from the wall, the high voltage wires do not look like they would need tampered with. There were a couple ground wires that would need lengthened, but none of the major wires that attach to the neck board or anode cap. Also some lighter gauge wires that attach to that board would need lengthened. Only 2 or 4 I think.

I may see if I can come up with a scrap 2x4 and see if 2" is enough or if I can flip it and use the 4" side of the 2x4. That may be the solution.

Another option would be to lay a board between the two side walls underneath the tube to support the board. Either way, I think I have enough options to not need to mess with the high voltage wires.

[Jdurg]

Just keep in mind that if you decide to solder together two wires in order to lengthen it you are inherently weakening the wire and you may find some problems later on down the line.  If you absolutely must extend those wires, I would HIGHLY suggest that you remove the entire wire and completely replace it with a longer one instead of splicing together two wires.  With that much voltage going through the wire, you don't want to introduce any weak spots.

I'm no electrical expert, but this is just my personal opinion.  Besides, you're going to have to solder anyway so you might as well replace the entire wire and not splice two of them together.

[rhuel]

Some progress on getting the monitor mounted. It's in, it isn't a perfect fit with the contour of the plastic bezel, but I think it will do fine. It looks like the neck board will just barely clear the back door. I'll figure out where to mount the power board another day.

Here are some pics...

[rhuel]

Got the monitor hooked back up and plugged in for testing it after I had it all apart.

I plugged everything back in, made a bracket to mount the power circuit board to (thanks guys for advising me to NOT cut wires and relocate it) and hooked the PC up to test.

My 10 year old daughter was the 2nd to try it out in the cabinet. She was pretty excited when she got past level one on Crazy Kong.

[shardian]

OUCH!!
It really doesn't have anything to do with the carpet. Tubes can built up residual charges, and a single discharge just doesn't get it all the way.

At least you had one hand in a pocket when you hooked it back up. RIGHT???

[rhuel]

OUCH!!
It really doesn't have anything to do with the carpet. Tubes can built up residual charges, and a single discharge just doesn't get it all the way.

At least you had one hand in a pocket when you hooked it back up. RIGHT???

I wish.

[shardian]

Well then count yourself lucky - very lucky. You apparently weren't touching a grounded object. Voltage passing from one hand to the other GROUNDED hand will pass over your chest, and thus, your heart. This can act like a defibrillator and stop your heart. I'll ask you another question, were you alone when this happened? I surely hope not.

When I took my circuits 2 lab in college, we were given a long lecture the first session about what to do and what not to do when working with high voltage. The single best advice I ever heard was "keep one hand in a pocket".

[rhuel]

Well then count yourself lucky - very lucky. You apparently weren't touching a grounded object. Voltage passing from one hand to the other GROUNDED hand will pass over your chest, and thus, your heart. This can act like a defibrillator and stop your heart. I'll ask you another question, were you alone when this happened? I surely hope not.

When I took my circuits 2 lab in college, we were given a long lecture the first session about what to do and what not to do when working with high voltage. The single best advice I ever heard was "keep one hand in a pocket".

I was not alone. I told my wife that I was going to hook stuff up downstairs and to check on me in a bit.


I did discharge it with no watch or wedding ring, a 2 ft long flat blade screwdriver and a rubber glove on. 3 or 4 times before I pulled it apart and read to discharge it again before putting it back together.

[ahofle]

Man that's amazing it could build up that much charge after being disconnected for a short period.  Since these things seemingly build up huge charges on their own, why doesn't someone recycle all these old monitors to build a free energy machine or a self recharging battery or something?   

[rhuel]

Well, after many hours of Windows, Linux, back to Windows, then Linux again...I finally decided to go back to Windows. I was having issues with getting audio and video drivers/modules to load properly in Linux. Games were choppy and unplayable. I got tired of changing/compiling/adding stuff trying to get it to work smoothly.

I got XP installed again and stripped down pretty well and the games seem to run super on it now.

I hooked up the ipac2 finally and all is working pretty well for mostly default stuff.

I had a couple issues with 2SW5 and 2SW6 not responding in games. After some discussion with Malenko and Gary (divemaster127) I realized it was a configuration issue. Mame had no default keys assigned to these buttons. The ipac was working fine. I assigned keys to the 2 buttons in mame and then used the interactive programming to set the same keys for the ipac.

The gui programming tool kept saying my ipac wasn't connected.
I have a CP with 2 sticks and 6 buttons per player and 2 additional buttons with the pics of little people on them. Any tips on how to set up my buttons so I can have coin, p1 start, p2 start, & ESC along with each player's controls?

Not sure how to set that up in the text interactive programming utility.

Kids are digging it so far, wife found flaws with the 8 way stick while playing pac-man and I am happy to have it together and running with the CP wired up.

Can I get the desired keystrokes with the current amount of buttons I have or should I buy a couple more buttons and add them to the CP?

Thanks

[TOK]

Well, after many hours of Windows, Linux, back to Windows, then Linux again...I finally decided to go back to Windows. I was having issues with getting audio and video drivers/modules to load properly in Linux. Games were choppy and unplayable. I got tired of changing/compiling/adding stuff trying to get it to work smoothly.

I got XP installed again and stripped down pretty well and the games seem to run super on it now.

I had the same experience when I tried Linux. The Nvidia drivers were all beta with no support, and seemed to install but never worked right. If I had more time, I might have stuck with it longer but the whole cab was basically done and I wanted it up and running. I used XP w/all the unnecessary Services disabled. That whittled the boot time to right about 30 seconds and has been rock solid for 2 years now.

[rhuel]

I found a shift interlock microswitch from a Volvo 850 in my toolbox and used that for the coin button. I tucked it inside the opening where the coin door should be for now. Works great as a temp fix till I decide if I want to go with an actual coin door or if I want to fabricate something else in its place.

Here's the switch I used:

[rhuel]

Slowly coming together. It's now playable and doesn't look as hateful.

Thanks Peale, Malenko, and Knievel for the tips and advice so far!!

[rhuel]

I got the cabinet moved upstairs and hopefully, it will get played a bit more. Here is a short clip of my 4 yr old playing Marvel vs Capcom (I think)

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xy7YHHLXnDA[/youtube]

[JKJudgeX]

Cute kid.  Grats on the cab .  It's a good feeling to see it all put together and working, isn't it?  I still have to do my custom panel and buttons, but, my gf and I played on the cabinet for like 4 hours yesterday, was great .