Mall Shooting

[SithMaster]

Wow I wake up this morning and the first thing I hear on the news is some kid kills 8 people in a mall.  Apparently he lost his job at mcdonalds for taking 17 dollars and his girlfriend left him.

I hope any byoacers from nebraska are okay.

[Ed_McCarron]

And... cue the across-the-ponders and the switch to P&R.

Wackos.  Everyones got 'em.

[ChadTower]

One more reason to never go to the mall.

[Ed_McCarron]

I remember Sylvia Seegrist. (sp?)

Wacko chick with a .22 walked into a mall near me and started taking potshots.  Only killed 2 people tho, before someone took the gun from her.

We all go back to doing whatever we used to after the shock wears off.

[CCM]

One more reason to never go to the mall.

Not an option for the people who work there....

[ChadTower]

Sure would be if we all stopped going to the mall.

[Ed_McCarron]

Anyone got some spare Elavil for Chad?

[ChadTower]

How is disliking the mall indicative of depression?  Many people don't like malls.  There's nothing at the mall you can't get faster someplace else.

[Dartful Dodger]

There's nothing at the mall you can't get faster someplace else.

A bullet in the back.

[shardian]

There is a special place in hell for people who decide to take as many innocent, random people down with them during suicide.

I could care less that this kid was having a rough time in life. Alot of people have it FAR worse than he did, and you know what? They PERSEVERE through it. What he did was inexcusable in the worst way.

Every time a little ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- like this guy does this, it just makes life harder for all the other teens.

[SithMaster]

I would think that mall security would at least try and stop him.

[ChadTower]

I would think that mall security would at least try and stop him.

For $7.50/hr?  Forget it.  Mall security won't even stop a shoplifter that is more than 5 feet 8.  Stop a guy with a gun?  Helllll no.

[shardian]

I would think that mall security would at least try and stop him.

My mall has a super hot chick, and an ancient old man as Security Guards. Equal Opportunity Employment at its finest...

[CCM]

How is disliking the mall indicative of depression?  Many people don't like malls.  There's nothing at the mall you can't get faster someplace else.

but you don't like anything, do you?

[ChadTower]

I like a lot of things.  None of them are exclusively available at the mall.

[missioncontrol]

I would think that mall security would at least try and stop him.

How? Blind the guy with their flashlights?

[Dartful Dodger]

Nebraska is a conceal carry state.  They could have been armed. 

Although the law allows the owner of a building to ban weapons.

But then if the mall banned weapons that guy wouldn't have brought a rifle into it.

[ChadTower]

Nebraska is a conceal carry state.  They could have been armed. 

Odds are very low a mall security guard would be allowed by their employer to carry a concealed weapon on the job.  I would imagine that would be grounds for immediate termination because of the potential liability.

[SithMaster]

The guard could have jumped the guy and beat him with his fists, a flashlight, or a baton.  The friends and parents are liable here i think.  They knew he had a gun and was troubled (a reason his parents kicked him out for i think).

He must have really wanted to work at that mcdonalds.

[ChadTower]

The guard could have jumped the guy and beat him with his fists, a flashlight, or a baton. 

Being shot in the face is not worth $7.50/hr.  It is not the security guard's job to stop violence.  It is his job to observe it and call the Police.  That's it.

The friends and parents are liable for jack.  The kid with the gun is liable. 

[SithMaster]

I would think them knowing he has a weapon (an assualt weapon though not sure on the laws or any changes to them) would be illegal and since he was living with them wouldnt they have an illegal firearm in their home?

Mall security sounds like a waste of money then.

[missioncontrol]

Nebraska is a conceal carry state.  They could have been armed. 

Although the law allows the owner of a building to ban weapons.

But then if the mall banned weapons that guy wouldn't have brought a rifle into it.

news reports claim the guards were unarmed. I don't ever recall seeing a mall rent-a-cop armed with nothing more than a walkie talkie and flashlight. Even if the mall banned weapons the guy could still bring it in on his own. He was planning on killing people, I don't think he worried about that taking a firearm into the mall might be against the mall rules....

[ChadTower]

Mall security sounds like a waste of money then.

Mall security is designed to catch middle school kids stealing hats and enforce parking rules - not subdue people with guns.

[SithMaster]

Seems like they should consider getting some kind of serious security then.  A high traffic place like a mall should have something more than a person who just calls for help.

[ChadTower]

Seems like they should consider getting some kind of serious security then.  A high traffic place like a mall should have something more than a person who just calls for help.

How many malls are there and how many incidents like this have happened?

You just can't have armed guards everywhere you go.  That is called a Police State.  You don't want that.

[tk_42_1]

Maybe this was the cause for him to snap:

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=9mJAsgIIfNM[/youtube]

[ChadTower]

That needs more Julie Brown.

[Ed_McCarron]

Maybe this was the cause for him to snap:

Ok, now I'm ready to go find a gun.

EDit:  Kidding, kidding.  I wouldn't even know which end to point.

[Dartful Dodger]

Armed guards would mean the stores would have to pay higher rent to pay the guards more and to train them.  It could also mean a higher insurance rate.  People would rather dodge bullets than pay 2 cents more on their goods.

Higher costs would make Chad loath the malls that much more.

[AtomSmasher]

As some one else mentioned, the job of mall security guards is to observe and call the police when something happens.  Their training generally consists of watching an hour long videotape, so it's not like they were prepared to handle a situation with an armed maniac.

[Dartful Dodger]

It's illegal to own a fire arm of any kind if you’re a nut job.

Have you seen the picture of the shooter.

I can't believe Weird Al shot up a mall.

[ahofle]

'assault weapons' were never illegal and were always easily obtained. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_assault_weapons_ban

You do realize that an 'assault weapon' is just a rifle that 'looks like a machine gun' right?

See definition found under previous link.

[Dartful Dodger]

The woman he was living with said the gun looked so old she didn’t think it would still fire.

I’m guessing it was a pre ban rifle, which means it was never illegal.

[SithMaster]

When i hear assault i think of a ak47 or something.  As for being legal or illegal i thought the ban was/is expired now.  I guess i shouldnt assume something that dangerous would be against the law.

The woman he was living with said the gun looked so old she didn’t think it would still fire.

I’m guessing it was a pre ban rifle, which means it was never illegal.

Her idea of old could be that it had dirt on it or wasnt shiny.  Now then if i bought a fully functioning MG-42 that wouldnt be illegal?

[Dartful Dodger]

She's from Nebraska, everything has dirt on it.

Old and dirty aren't the same thing.

[AtomSmasher]

When i hear assault i think of a ak47 or something.

One article I read said that he did use an AK-47.  If it was fully automatic, then it would have to have been from before the ban, but semi-automatic AK-47's are still legal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47_legal_status#In_the_United_States
"Semi-Automatic AK-47s, however, are legal and easily obtainable in most states of the United States. Certain states like California have specific restrictions which effectively ban new purchases of semi-automatic rifles like the AK-47."

Now then if i bought a fully functioning MG-42 that wouldnt be illegal?

I believe it's still illegal to buy an type of fully automatic gun.

[missioncontrol]

has the media mentioned what type of gun it was other than using the word "assault riffle"? Don't forget, the media will mis-use labels just to make the story much more interesting.

[missioncontrol]

also some guns require just a little bit of filing to make them fully automatic. With the internet, it wouldn't be too difficult to figure out which ones are the easiest to convert.

[AtomSmasher]

has the media mentioned what type of gun it was other than using the word "assault riffle"? Don't forget, the media will mis-use labels just to make the story much more interesting.

Umm, look one post above yours...

Heres the article I read that said what gun it was:
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2007/12/06/1145253-gunman-may-have-smuggled-rifle-in-shirt

"Police believe Hawkins stole the assault rifle, an AK-47, from his stepfather's home, Warren said."

Another story that seems to confirm it:
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iucpUABxsW76xLxZkov8Oeef0vug

"He managed to kill eight of the 13 people he shot with an AK-47 assault rifle"

*edit*
Wikipedia also lists the weapon as an AK-47, so I'd say thats definately what he used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westroads_Mall_shooting

[missioncontrol]

has the media mentioned what type of gun it was other than using the word "assault riffle"? Don't forget, the media will mis-use labels just to make the story much more interesting.

Umm, look one post above yours...

yeah your post beat mine by 41 seconds...

Reply #37 on: Today at 06:27:17 PM

Reply #38 on: Today at 06:27:58 PM

Now the question is where did his stepfather get the gun? Was is before the ban or after?

[danny_galaga]

One more reason to never go to the mall.

 

[danny_galaga]

That needs more Julie Brown.

"i did it for johnny!"

[danny_galaga]

on a serious note, i cant imagine what difference it would have made whether the gun was semi auto or not. either way he would have shot a number of people...

[ChadTower]

on a serious note, i cant imagine what difference it would have made whether the gun was semi auto or not. either way he would have shot a number of people...

It probably wouldn't have... it would just take him a minute or so longer.  The only real difference I could think of would be maybe if it were a semi some people would have been shot more than once.

[ChadTower]

One thing I learned a long time ago:

Don't discuss guns with someone in Texas.  Even if you fully agree with the person, you're wrong and they'll jump all over you, because as a nonTexan you couldn't possibly understand.  They are irrational about guns and the discussion isn't worth having.

[missioncontrol]

They were never effectively banned.  That is the answer to your non-questions.

Wrong, congress banned the AK-47 from being sold in 1994. That doesn't mean you still couldn't find them. It just made it a little harder to look for one.

An assault weapon is not a fully automatic weapon, but is is considered automatic by some because of the fact that it will shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger.

[ahofle]

Whether the AW ban was effective or not is moot.  You said assault weapons were never illegal.  My Mossberg 500 shotgun with pistol grip, folding stock, and 8 round mag capacity would have been illegal if purchased from 1994 to 2004 because it met the legislative description of an 'assault weapon'.  So your statement was incorrect.

[ChadTower]

At no point could you NOT walk into a gun store in 1994 and NOT buy something that you could in 1993. 

You could always NOT walk into a gun store and NOT buy a gun.

I have never feel more free to NOT buy something as I did in 1994.

[DaOld Man]

Maybe this was the cause for him to snap:

(decapitated the video)

Just before I shot my monitor, that video reminded me why I hated 80's music.
Plus it had the audacity to not even show an arcade in the background..

[ahofle]

At no point could you NOT walk into a gun store in 1994 and NOT buy something that you could in 1993. 

Yes, perhaps for a few months, production of new 'assault weapons' was stopped until the manufacturers were able to get them modified enough, but that's it. 

 
I wonder why the manufacturers bothered with the modifications given your first statement. 

[ahofle]

I only objected to your initial statement/argument that 'assault weapons were never illegal' (which you have since changed into 'the assault ban was ineffective').  I never said the ban was not easily circumvented or remotely effective.

[ChadTower]

fixt

[shardian]

Why the hell did police release photos of the kid actually taking aim at people??

I HATE when the media pulls this stuff. As the kid said in his letter: "I'll be famous now". Thank you news media for indulging his ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up fantasy and encouraging even more nutso's to carry on the tradition.

I hope that one of these days when a person goes on a killing spree that they happen upon a off-duty/retired military person who has a concealed weapon permit. Here's to hoping they subdue the perp, blow off their kneecaps, cut off an ear, etc then hand them over to police to face their crimes. That will go a long way in making these nuts think twice before taking innocents down with them.

[Zero_Hour]

That will go a long way in making these nuts think twice before taking innocents down with them.

People who are "Nuts" are not exactly renown for their rational thinking. For example, what's the use in being famous, only after having killed oneself? Can't really use that fame for anything can you? 

[shardian]

That will go a long way in making these nuts think twice before taking innocents down with them.

People who are "Nuts" are not exactly renown for their rational thinking. For example, what's the use in being famous, only after having killed oneself? Can't really use that fame for anything can you? 

People who do this kind of thing are cowards. They know that they can get away with doing anything they want past the point of turning back. If it starts to go South on them, they have the comfort that they can just pull the trigger on themself - no pain, no punishment, no long term consequences. The only thing that can scare them at that point is the fear of having to live, face MORE pain, and deal with what they did that they thought they were going to get away with.

I'm no psychology expert, but I get the feeling that, for instance, if the Columbine kids were stopped, overran, beaten within an inch of their lives and now in federal ass-pounding prison, we wouldn't have near as many dumbasses "going for the record".

[ChadTower]

I agree with sharidan.  They're not going for fame, they're going for infamy, and part of infamy is dying in the process.  They want to be Billy the Kid and have people read about them 100 years from now.  The media putting up visual evidence only encourages more of them.

Of course, when that retired Marine subdues and beats the kid, who do you really think is going to be the monster in the media?  The "troubled kid screaming for help" or the "evil Marine" who hurt him?