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Author Topic: Vista64 and driver compatibility  (Read 4902 times)

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Shoegazer

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Vista64 and driver compatibility
« on: November 28, 2007, 08:06:51 am »
All,

The discussions I've seen on this board lately have gotten me very interested in using Vista64.  However I am curious to know how many of you have had issues with driver compatibility?  While I realize most large companies may have the time/resources to dedicate teams of people to write printer, soundcard, network etc. drivers, I'm not sure if the vendors that service our hobby have equal time for this.  For example, Ultimarc has beta Vista64 Ipac drivers - how much luck have people had with them?  Also, I didn't see anything for the U360 joystick at all.  Ultimarc's has a great reputation with high-quality products and service, so I'm not too worried there, but I'm curious nevertheless.  Thoughts, anyone?

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2007, 10:21:53 am »
I have just finished setting up Vista 64 on my mame, it was a breeze, the new arcadevga vista driver works perfect.  The current ipac drivers also works perfect in vista 64.  I have no issues at all works like a charm.
dm
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2008, 11:55:26 am »
I just started setting my my 64bit Vista machine and ran into a problem with the UltraStik 360s.  Vista sees the it as a generic HID-compliant game controller.  MAME works fine with it in analog mode.  But the Ultramapper and FE plugin can't find the devices. 

I have a support request into Andy and expect to hear form him shortly on the issue.

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2008, 12:16:19 pm »
The discussions I've seen on this board lately have gotten me very interested in using Vista64. 

Why!!   Vista, regardless of any 64bit performance improvements is a piece of total junk.

Benchmarking Vista in all round performance against Windows XP with the new service pack 3 installed. Shows windows XP on the same hardware litteraly running twice as fast as Vista. So the performance gain from Vista64 is actually completely destroyed by the performance loss of the OS.

Vista is (at the moment) a slow over bloated, bug ridden, crash everything, compatibility failure.

It's going to be one to two years before Vista gets fixed and is a genuinely viable option. By which time, the REAL new Microsoft OS will have been released and Vista will become more of a laughing stock than it is now.

Look at vista as the equivalent of Windows ME. It's a stop gap OS that will not be the actual Microsft OS for very long.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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divemaster127

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2008, 12:18:04 pm »
How did you get service pack 3 already.
dm
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Fozzy The Bear

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2008, 12:32:28 pm »
How did you get service pack 3 already.
dm

 :laugh2: I didn't.... But I'm quoting from a PC Format Labs Benchmark Test there. They tend to be a very reliable indicator.

And that information came from a pre release version of SP3.

I have however been running vista on one new machine.... Not Impressed.... Very pretty, very configureable but loaded down with bloatware and junk. With regular lock ups and crashes and a habit of starting itself up without any input at all, even with all the power management turned off, the machine went back after two weeks.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 12:36:36 pm by Fozzy The Bear »
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2008, 12:42:14 pm »
It's a matter of time before the handy little program "nlite" will support Vista.  Then you can remove all of the bells and whistles to your hearts content.

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2008, 12:58:06 pm »
It's a matter of time before the handy little program "nlite" will support Vista.  Then you can remove all of the bells and whistles to your hearts content.

~ D

It is already out http://www.vlite.net/ , but I haven't monkied around with it.  Pretty happy with the perfomance thus far even on newer CHDs.

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2008, 02:45:06 pm »
Vista is (at the moment) a slow over bloated, bug ridden, crash everything, compatibility failure.

That's weird, I've been running Vista for a year now and I haven't had a single crash or compatibility failure that I would pin down on the OS itself, or encountered any show-stopping bug that I can recall. What have you had problems with running?

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2008, 02:50:43 pm »
The discussions I've seen on this board lately have gotten me very interested in using Vista64. 

Why!!   Vista, regardless of any 64bit performance improvements is a piece of total junk.

Benchmarking Vista in all round performance against Windows XP with the new service pack 3 installed. Shows windows XP on the same hardware litteraly running twice as fast as Vista. So the performance gain from Vista64 is actually completely destroyed by the performance loss of the OS.

Vista is (at the moment) a slow over bloated, bug ridden, crash everything, compatibility failure.

It's going to be one to two years before Vista gets fixed and is a genuinely viable option. By which time, the REAL new Microsoft OS will have been released and Vista will become more of a laughing stock than it is now.

Look at vista as the equivalent of Windows ME. It's a stop gap OS that will not be the actual Microsft OS for very long.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

How did you get service pack 3 already.
dm

 :laugh2: I didn't.... But I'm quoting from a PC Format Labs Benchmark Test there. They tend to be a very reliable indicator.

And that information came from a pre release version of SP3.

I have however been running vista on one new machine.... Not Impressed.... Very pretty, very configureable but loaded down with bloatware and junk. With regular lock ups and crashes and a habit of starting itself up without any input at all, even with all the power management turned off, the machine went back after two weeks.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)


You total have no idea do you, your just quoting random websites and Anti-Vista posts from other forums, you've been shot down by Aaron on this very forum for these kinds of statement and you still make them.

Vista is bloated no question about it, but that doesn't make it slow, just big, and there is vLite for that now. Give Vista 2gb of ram and 20gb of HDD space and a modern CPU and it goes like the snot, buying a cheap piece of :censored: PC from wallmart with Vista Basic pre-installed and only 512mb does not count as test of anything.

Second only to the Dev's :notworthy: , I probably done more M.A.M.E. Benchmarks than anyone else on the planet, I've done Apples for Apples comparisons between WinXP and Vista64 on identical PCs and Vista64 is faster even when running 32bit M.A.M.E., running M.A.M.E. 64bit under Vista 64bit offer a performance gain of up to 20%, even the most optimised Tiny XP install can not  hope to keep up with Vista 64bit.

There is simply no better operating system to run the current versions of M.A.M.E. under than Vista 64bit, saying anything to the opposite is just putting your head in the sand and hoping that the world will stop spinning.

I suggest to anyone that hasn't already read in to check out my benchmark post: [url]http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72776.0[/url, before jumping to any conclusions.




« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 02:56:29 pm by taz-nz »

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2008, 02:50:50 pm »
Vista is (at the moment) a slow over bloated, bug ridden, crash everything, compatibility failure.

That's weird, I've been running Vista for a year now and I haven't had a single crash or compatibility failure that I would pin down on the OS itself, or encountered any show-stopping bug that I can recall. What have you had problems with running?

That's the problem. For every 1 person who complains about the OS, there are 10 people you don't hear from, and are perfectly happy with it.  I've run Vista since the first beta was released and have not had one single issue with it.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 02:52:53 pm by joeH »

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2008, 03:45:14 pm »
You total have no idea do you, your just quoting random websites and Anti-Vista posts from other forums

No I'm quoting respected sources from respected magazines. But of course you know better and would rather rant and jump up and down like some demented dingo than to actually have a civil conversation.

I'm entitled to my personal opinion of Vista and my opinion of it is that right now it stinks! and needs way more time before it's stable and viable for use in an arcade cabinet.

you've been shot down by Aaron on this very forum for these kinds of statement and you still make them.

Sorry..... No idea what you're talking about there. Perhaps you'd care to illuminate me as to when that occurred and relating to what exactly??

Vista is bloated no question about it, but that doesn't make it slow, just big.

Ermmm Sorry no logic whatsoever in that statement.... It certainly does make it slow. It chews up so much in system resources that everything else can grind to a halt sometimes.

Give Vista 2gb of ram and 20gb of HDD space and a modern CPU and it goes like the snot, buying a cheap piece of :censored: PC from wallmart with Vista Basic pre-installed and only 512mb does not count as test of anything.

Well given that you didn't bother to ask the specifications of the PC in question you make a lot of very dumb ass assumptions there, that it was running on some piece of junk. It wasn't!

Packard Bell
Gigabyte MB
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E4500
2.2GHz, 800MHz FSB, 2MB Cache
Windows Vista (R) Home Premium
2GB Memory
360GB Hard Drive

BTW I'd have trouble buying anything from WallMart.... I'm not in the wonderful US of A...

There is simply no better operating system to run the current versions of M.A.M.E. under than Vista 64bit, saying anything to the opposite is just putting your head in the sand and hoping that the world will stop spinning.

So speaks the bastage son of Bill Gates...... You should apply for a job with Microsoft Publicity Department. I'm sure they need more blinkered fools who ignore all of the appalling failures, to sell the product.  :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

What you don't like is anybody daring to disagree with your opinion that Windows Vista is wonderful and a big bed of roses.  Sorry! Don't agree with you. It has way too many problems right now. Maybee when they release Service Pack 2 or 3 for it I'll be better. But right now IMHO it's not good.

I can't say that I liked XP either when it came out..... It took that to Service Pack 2 before it became really stable, service pack 3 cures a lot of other things that were wrong and speeds it up significantly.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 03:57:07 pm by Fozzy The Bear »
Most bottles and jars contain at least twenty-five percent recycled Pacman.
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bvicarious

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2008, 09:00:52 pm »
Fozzy, what programs have you experienced conflicts or incompatibilities with? I'd seriously like to know. You also mentioned slowing down to a halt, when does that happen? I know the one thing Vista really really sucks at is copying files, dragging and dropping them and so on.. that's the only thing I can think of that wrecks the OS though. What was your experience like?

My biggest memory hogs right now, btw, are firefox and photoshop, each taking ~270mb of ram. CPU usage is hovering around 11%.

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2008, 09:02:20 pm »
My biggest memory hogs right now, btw, are firefox and photoshop, each taking ~270mb of ram. CPU usage is hovering around 11%.
I know Firefox has a memory leak right now that hasn't been fixed yet.  Not sure if that applies to the Vista version as well as XP, but its a known problem.

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2008, 10:01:39 pm »
I know Firefox has a memory leak right now that hasn't been fixed yet.  Not sure if that applies to the Vista version as well as XP, but its a known problem.


Well it certainly doesn't help that I have about 60 tabs open :P

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2008, 11:27:37 pm »
Not to jump into some fight or anything, but I have vista and one gig of RAM. Here is my basic experience with it:

Cons:

Gets slow when I have more than a handfull of apps open (1 GIG isnt really enough for Vista Home Premium)

Doesnt let unregistered programs write to the disc (Couldnt get Code::Blocks or even M$ VC++ to compile anything because the OS wasnt allowing access to the files they needed {Even when run in admin mode})

Pros:

My computer has crashed ONCE since I have had this machine (A full year) and it wasnt due to the OS (all other "near crashes" were caught by the OS, and only made the program quit out.)

I hooked an incomaptable monitor to the machine (something from like 1992) and it caused the display driver to crash, as soon as that happened (I have a dual monitor system) vista decided to repair the fault (it brought my main screen back up, and disabled the incompatable one). This is without it rebooting or anything, it also brought up a nifty window telling me what happened and what windows did to "fix" it.





Anyways, for any OS, there are going to be people who like it and those who hate it. I got my computer around the time Vista came out and it had more than its share fare of quirks, but most of them seem to have settled down. For those of you having incompatibility issues, stick with XP, for those who dont have any problems with Vista, stick with vista. I Dont personally "Like" vista, but this is the only computer I have had that has less than 1 crash per year, so I cant say I dislike it.

Food for thought anyways.

--- Yes I AM doing this on purpose, and yes I DO realize it is pissing you off.

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taz-nz

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2008, 03:07:46 am »
I'm going try and reply without turning this into any more of a pissing match than it already has, so here goes.

No I'm quoting respected sources from respected magazines. But of course you know better and would rather rant and jump up and down like some demented dingo than to actually have a civil conversation.

I'm entitled to my personal opinion of Vista and my opinion of it is that right now it stinks! and needs way more time before it's stable and viable for use in an arcade cabinet.

I was in a rush to get the door this morning and my post was probably unnecessarily personal in it's nature, and for that I apologise.

I would have had little issue with your post if you had made it clear that it was your opionions, rather than stating them as fact. Quoting a third party source without any kind of link to the source is little more than stating one own opinion in my eyes.

You have a right to your a opinions, but when you jump on someone that asked a simple question it's out of order in my book. You basically attacked the first two posters for using Vista, by asking "Why!!   ....", like they were stupid or something, and then go on to attack Vista without offer any useful alternative option they might use, you first post was little more than a rant. 

you've been shot down by Aaron on this very forum for these kinds of statement and you still make them.
Sorry..... No idea what you're talking about there. Perhaps you'd care to illuminate me as to when that occurred and relating to what exactly??

Since you asked, in this thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75090.0

[OK But there are still driver issues..... Not to mention the constant crashing and lockups of Vista itself. Until somebody writes some drivers for the Topgun and Guncon which actually work on there and Microsoft get to somewhere like second service pack on vista, it's a non starter. So I'd guess at least 12 to 24 months before it's even worth thinking about.

OK, let's cut the FUD. If you're going to beat up on Vista, then attack it for the things that are actually wrong with it (application compatibility issues, confusing interface changes, poor performance on low and mid-range machines), rather than for imagined "constant crashing and lockups". I don't see a lot of evidence for the latter, and it certainly is very far from my experience.

In general, if you use modern hardware, the drivers are there and work fine. If you use older hardware, you may or may not have luck with compatible drivers, though most XP drivers will work fine if you are still using 32-bit Vista. Once you move to 64-bit, you absolutely should have modern hardware (within the last year or so) if you don't like to struggle with finding drivers.

Given that the LCD Top Guns pre-date Vista, my suspicion is that the XP drivers work ok on 32-bit Vista, and that there are no 64-bit drivers, since many manufacturers didn't bother (and smaller ones still don't).

You never replied to his post, so it's possible you never saw it.

Vista is bloated no question about it, but that doesn't make it slow, just big, and there is vLite for that now. Give Vista 2gb of ram and 20gb of HDD space and a modern CPU and it goes like the snot.
Ermmm Sorry no logic whatsoever in that statement.... It certainly does make it slow. It chews up so much in system resources that everything else can grind to a halt sometimes.

Let me clarify, Vista has a huge install foot print of 15gb compare to XP Pro's 1.5gb, Vista also runs many more background tasks and services, that most of us have little use for in M.A.M.E, this can best be described as bloat, but given room to work vista is anything but slow. As most people here that would be looking to install Vista, will be doing so in a cabinet they will likely use something like vLite to reduces it's install size, and the power users can and will disable any number or services and system tasks they don't require to free up extra memory and CPU time, Vista in itself will not use up all the available system resource unless installed on a total under-spec'd computer.

I've been running Vista64 ultimate in parallel with XP Pro for a little over four months at a guess and I've yet to see Vista grid to a halt any faster than XP, and in fact the only time I've managed to get either OS to come near to a complete stop is, by doing insanely complex CAD operations which Vista64 handles better.

Well given that you didn't bother to ask the specifications of the PC in question you make a lot of very dumb ass assumptions there, that it was running on some piece of junk. It wasn't!

Packard Bell
Gigabyte MB
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E4500
2.2GHz, 800MHz FSB, 2MB Cache
Windows Vista (R) Home Premium
2GB Memory
360GB Hard Drive

BTW I'd have trouble buying anything from WallMart.... I'm not in the wonderful US of A...

The WallMart PC comment was more of badly worded generalisation, than an assumption (I don't live in the USA either). I did presume since you said it came with Vista and you sent it back that it was a pre-built brand name box, and that since was unable to run vista stably that it was a cheap and rubbish one at that.

A quick check of Packard Bell's UK website, and the only systems that matches those specs are two models in the imedia range. http://www.packardbell.co.uk/products/desktops/imedia/productgroup-28-46.html
A quick check of the spec turns up images of very basic and heavily stripped motherboards, with either VIA & SIS chipsets, there goes your performance. Packard Bell refuses to post the specs of any of it's power supplies which leads me to believe it's the usual gutless piece of rubbish you'll find in any brand name box, and thus there goes your stability. The Hard drive also rings bells, being a model not listed on Seagates website, and be an odd ball size points to an OEM only drive which often contain half size platters (platters that are only usably on one side due to defects), this is another sign of a cost cutting by the manufacturer.

A quick check of pricing on these system tells me you could easily build a similar, but better machine for the same money if not less.

There is simply no better operating system to run the current versions of M.A.M.E. under than Vista 64bit, saying anything to the opposite is just putting your head in the sand and hoping that the world will stop spinning.
So speaks the bastage son of Bill Gates...... You should apply for a job with Microsoft Publicity Department. I'm sure they need more blinkered fools who ignore all of the appalling failures, to sell the product.  :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

What you don't like is anybody daring to disagree with your opinion that Windows Vista is wonderful and a big bed of roses.

Now that comment this is just plan childish, I never said Vista was perfect, in fact I agreed that it was bloated and one should use vLite to slim it down. I in fact recommend must business users stick to XP Pro or to get Vista business and downgrade it to XP Pro until software & hardware manufacture sort out their Vista compatibility issues, Home users I tend to direct towards Vista Home Prem as it what they like and the media center function work a lot better than in XP MCE. I basically save recommending 64bit Vista to M.A.M.E. users and people running high end CAD and alike. There is no one perfect OS contrary to what some Apple & Linux users might think.

Sorry! Don't agree with you. It has way too many problems right now. Maybee when they release Service Pack 2 or 3 for it I'll be better. But right now IMHO it's not good.

I can't say that I liked XP either when it came out..... It took that to Service Pack 2 before it became really stable, service pack 3 cures a lot of other things that were wrong and speeds it up significantly.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

That's your opinion and you have your right to it, I've heavily tested M.A.M.E. and the best performance results all come from running it under 64bit Vista, I've posted results that prove this in the thread I included a link to in my original post, and I've had those results backed up by members of the Dev team and by members of this and other MAME forums. Until someone posts M.A.M.E. benchmarks for XP Pro 64bit, OSX or linux that better my result my opinion is in fact, fact!

I've had no issue with lockups or crashes relating to using Vista, in fact the only time I've had Vista crash in four months is when my DVD-Writer was on it's way out, and XP crashed just as often until I replaced the Drive.

Regards,
Mark
aka TAZ-NZ
« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 03:09:40 am by taz-nz »

Fozzy The Bear

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2008, 05:17:48 am »
I'm going try and reply without turning this into any more of a pissing match than it already has, so here goes.

I appreciate the sentiment, but it was YOU who started it!! I will refrain from personal comments or insults, because it doesn't do anybody any favours nor does it further any rational debate.

I was in a rush to get the door this morning and my post was probably unnecessarily personal in it's nature, and for that I apologise.

I would have had little issue with your post if you had made it clear that it was your opionions, rather than stating them as fact. Quoting a third party source without any kind of link to the source is little more than stating one own opinion in my eyes..

Your apology is accepted.... However I will respond to some of your points....

It's more than a bit difficult to link to printed paper sources.... but there are numerous reports in the respected press, that end up with exactly the same experiences as mine. The general consensus of opinion remains that Vista is a stop gap OS that will die the same way that Windows ME did.

You have a right to your a opinions, but when you jump on someone that asked a simple question it's out of order in my book. You basically attacked the first two posters for using Vista, by asking "Why!!   ....", like they were stupid or something

I most certainly did not.... If you missinterpreted my first post, then that is hardly my fault. However if anyone believed that I was attacking them, then I apologise for that, it was certainly not the intention.


Re: Aaron
You never replied to his post, so it's possible you never saw it.

You're absolutely right that I never saw it..... I would have taken issue with a couple of points in it if I had. The LCD Topgun drivers certainly do not work well with Vista. Unusual for Aaron to be wrong about something. But then I guess we're all human.

The WallMart PC comment was more of badly worded generalisation, than an assumption (I don't live in the USA either). I did presume since you said it came with Vista and you sent it back that it was a pre-built brand name box, and that since was unable to run vista stably that it was a cheap and rubbish one at that.

I appreciate your generalisation but don't apply generalisations to me! You used it to make assumptions that were less than accurate. I'm sure the PC manufacturer in question would be more than happy to discuss your claims that their product is rubbish. I personally don't think it was a bad spec.

I do however appreciate your clarified definition of "rubbish".... Very interesting, given that that is how the majority of machines on the planet are sold. You are therefore suggesting that the majority of hardware sold in the world is defective before it even leaves the manufacturer. I'm sorry, but that is clearly not true. It would be more accurate to say that we've been dumped on by Microsoft, yet again, foisting an OS on us that doesn't work properly with the majority of hardware on the planet and has to be patched to hell just to get it to function.

Now that comment this is just plan childish, I never said Vista was perfect,

You started the childish comments.... If you don't like it when I turn round and bite you after you attack me personally, instead of debating the actual points, then don't do it in the first place.

That's your opinion and you have your right to it,

Glad we agree on that.

I've had no issue with lockups or crashes relating to using Vista, in fact the only time I've had Vista crash in four months is when my DVD-Writer was on it's way out, and XP crashed just as often until I replaced the Drive.

Sorry Mark but that's simply not my experience of the OS. It's also not the experience of many respected technology journalists or their lab technicians or the readers of numerous publications who write to complain either. While it's impossible to link to paper articles I don't have the time to scan and post them all either.

It caused me nightmares. To be honest I think that you shoot your own argument in the foot, when you advise people to use an illegal cut down version of Vista, if they are going to install it in an arcade cabinet. Why should anyone have to use a hacked up cut down version of an OS in order just to get it to run properly. That says a great deal for both Microsoft and Vista.

The vast majority of users in the world, will NOT be using hacked up cut down versions. Why should they be suffering to the deference of Microsoft's wallet. In fact even the majority of people on here will NOT be using hacked up cut down versions, because the majority of users (even on here) buy a machine that IS an OEM Branded manufacturer unit with a pre install on it. Many people therefore quite rightly expect the goods they have paid for, to work when they get it out of the box, not have to be hacked down or patched to hell, just to get it to function properly.

The largest numbers of sales for Vista, even to people on here ARE branded box shifter manufacturers. While you and I are perfectly capable of building a machine from scratch and not having inferior components as a result of our own picking and choosing, the majority of users, again, even on here, do not fall into that category and I also don't have the time to build a machine from scratch every time I need one, just to get the OS to work.

The majority of people in the world buy Dell, Packard Bell, Acer, Gateway etc etc etc even the majority on here.

So my original answer stands.  While I don't in any way dispute your benchmarking results, which I found very interesting and informative. In fact I do thank you for taking the time to do all of that, your efforts are appreciated.  I do however dispute the stability of this OS on the majority of hardware based on my own experience of it.

Maybee when they release Service Pack 2 or 3 for it I'll be better and more stable. But right now IMHO it's not good, it's not right and it's not as stable as you claim, when run on the majority of the hardware it's supposed to run on.

Best Regards,
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« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 06:24:27 am by Fozzy The Bear »
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2008, 06:47:21 am »
I know Firefox has a memory leak right now that hasn't been fixed yet.  Not sure if that applies to the Vista version as well as XP, but its a known problem.


Well it certainly doesn't help that I have about 60 tabs open :P
;D
Now that's pretty funny. 

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2008, 12:09:07 pm »
I'm going to put my foot into the fire here with my opinions on this matter.

Fozzy - your posts have come across with a "You're a complete ---smurfing--- moron for using Vista.  I know better than you so shut the hell up and listen to me."  While that may not have been your intention, that is how I've interpreted it and perhaps others have as well.  (Then again, it could just be your personality and no malice was intended).  Again, just my interpretation.   :cheers:



The pre-built systems do use cheaper quality components, but in the past OSes haven't been as demanding on hardware as they are now.  As time goes by, Operating Systems get more and more complex and require better and better hardware.  I think with Vista we have finally caught up with the hardware in terms of the OS requirements and now the cheaper hardware parts are showing their faults more and more.  The only way to "fix" this is to make an OS that isn't as extensive, has less functionality, and therefore can handle cheaper quality components. 

I will state that all reviews and articles I've read (paper or online) that have complained about Vista have done so with regards to the size of the OS and instability with non-standard programs or components.  The thing is, that was the same thing that happened when XP came out. 

Also, vLite is NOT an illegal application.  It's software designed to modify the installation of Vista.  In NO WAY does it bypass any of the copy protection or activation requirements of Vista.  In fact, if you try to use it on an illegal copy or a pre-activated copy of Vista it simply will not work.  You MUST have a valid, legal copy of Vista in order to use vLite.  (all the program does is remove the installation of components that you don't need but you won't necessarily know how to remove or where to remove it from).
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2008, 01:18:25 pm »
Fozzy - your posts have come across with a "You're a complete ---smurfing--- moron for using Vista.  I know better than you so shut the hell up and listen to me."

I'm sorry..... This sort of ignorant comment doesn't really even deserve my time to respond to. However......

NOWHERE have I said any such thing.

If that comment applies to me then it most certainly applies to Mark Taz-NZ as well, who was the first to throw personal insults at me just as you have done, because I don't agree with you that Vista is wonderful.

I'm entitled to my opinion, the same as you are perfectly entitled to your opinion.

My opinion is that Vista is not ready for use yet and you'll find that I did qualify that with "YET"  That opinion is based on personal experience, both my own and that of other people who I'm in contact with and in relation to what I read in the respected media. Just the same as XP was not ready when it was released and not stable until it reached Service Pack 2. 

If you don't like my opinion, then that's just a bit tough. Get over it. I don't agree with you.... So we just have to agree not to agree.

What you are not entitled to do however, is hurl personal insults, because I don't agree with you.  Grow up and learn that not everybody on the planet is going to agree with your position. I accept that, in terms of what I might say, but I will not put up with personal abuse for merely defending my position with rational argument.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

p.s. Oh! and by the way! nearly all the VistaLite distributions that I've seen floating around the torrent sites include cracks for hacking out Vista Activation..... They are most certainly illegal distro's. They also include large chunks of Microsoft code... and in many cases an entire OS Distro... So they most certainly ARE Illegal.
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2008, 01:48:31 pm »
Fozzy - your posts have come across with a "You're a complete ---smurfing--- moron for using Vista.  I know better than you so shut the hell up and listen to me."

I'm sorry..... This sort of ignorant comment doesn't really even deserve my time to respond to. However......


I rest my case.
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2008, 01:53:12 pm »
Oh yeah.  The website linked to towards the top of this thread states the following:

Quote
"A user came ranting about this issue and did it in such manner that he got banned before I could even respond.
So let me explain it here. Thing is this can happen only if you use illegal pre-activated Vista installation. Few users reported this so it is confirmed. Basically it is not my fault and if you have legal (untampered) Vista version it will work just fine.

Update: got the word that the legal Dell pre-activated versions (the same method those illegal ones are using) is hanging there as well, checking it out."

Also, it is perfectly legal.  Go ask Microsoft if you have to.

I'm sorry fozzy, I don't know if it's just your personality or you are actually trying to be abrasive in your posts, but that's how it comes across.  Ask ANY person on these forums. 
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2008, 01:54:55 pm »
p.s. Oh! and by the way! nearly all the VistaLite distributions that I've seen floating around the torrent sites include cracks for hacking out Vista Activation..... They are most certainly illegal distro's. They also include large chunks of Microsoft code... and in many cases an entire OS Distro... So they most certainly ARE Illegal.

http://www.vlite.net/

If you are getting your software from torrent sites then of course it will be illegal.  In that case, I could say ALL software is illegal if you find it on a torrent site.
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2008, 02:03:59 pm »
Like I said, we have to agree to disagree.
The only person hurling personal insults and being abrasive right now is you. I rest MY case.

Quote
"Ask ANY person on these forums"
I'd also recommend that you don't presume to speak for the rest of the forum as you just did. I don't presume to do that. the only person I speak for is me.

As I said, I'll refrain from hurling insults to make any point I wish to make. I don't need to.  Nuff Said!

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« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 02:13:23 pm by Fozzy The Bear »
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2008, 02:50:01 pm »
I'm sorry fozzy, I don't know if it's just your personality or you are actually trying to be abrasive in your posts, but that's how it comes across.  Ask ANY person on these forums. 

Fozzy and I don't always see eye to eye (I am really enjoying Vista), but we're both Muppets (tm) and I'll ask you to refrain from speaking for me as I fall into the category of 'ANY person on these forums'.

LOTS of the people come across as abrasive in any forum, depending on the topic, the mood and the time available to post. You need to look beyond the few posts that rub you the wrong way and see what else is there. There are lots of "fuzzy" members who don't have much to add and lots of "rough" members who have plenty to add. And all sorts of other folks in between.

You may find it hard to believe, but some people find my posts abrasive.   :dizzy:  Can you believe that ?

If you are getting your software from torrent sites then of course it will be illegal.  In that case, I could say ALL software is illegal if you find it on a torrent site.

I'm not sure what to make of this ... were you trying to be sarcastic ?

There are those who do distribute legitimate software/content via torrent.

Not trying to pick a fight, just confused by the statement.
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2008, 04:13:25 pm »
I still haven't heard what program incompatibilities Vista has, or in what circumstances it gets completely locked up.

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2008, 04:21:56 pm »
I still haven't heard what program incompatibilities Vista has, or in what circumstances it gets completely locked up.

That one I can't really answer ... I have blue-screened it once and definitely have come across some incompatibilities (mostly older software or drivers).

It does seem to run MAME and DAPHNE just fine.  ;)
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2008, 04:56:32 pm »
I still haven't heard what program incompatibilities Vista has, or in what circumstances it gets completely locked up.

The copy I had was locking up on a regular basis randomly with anything.... Even with just its own components.  This even after several run throughs of the full recovery.

Now, while it seems that my experience is not typical in the forum. I will concede that it could therefore have been a hardware issue. Even though there were no reported problems.

The difficulty I have with believing that, is that I keep hearing the same thing about it from lots of different sources. Which certainly suggests that Microsoft have got it wrong. There's no point in releasing an OS which is incompatible with the majority hardware out there. So as far as I'm concerned, the fault still lies with Microsoft and the OS. Which as I said, I don't believe is actually ready for mass adoption "yet"....

Like I said.... Service pack 2 or 3 under it's belt and it might be a viable option. But by that time Microsoft's genuine new 64bit OS will be out and not this stop gap windows ME type release.

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« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 04:59:49 pm by Fozzy The Bear »
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2008, 05:56:05 pm »
Around the time that W2K came out, I upgraded the OS on some machines and swore an oath that anytime I wanted to upgrade a consumer OS, I would wait at least 6 months and buy a whole new machine when I did. Anything else gets W2K, W98 or some flavour of Nix.

I haven't had a bad OS upgrade since.

I no longer surf the bleeding edge with my gear, but it all seems to all work relatively nicely (except for some legacy stuff, but hey ...)
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2008, 07:59:45 pm »
I had the same problem you did at first, Fozzy. The OS would bluescreen, lock up, reboot, and operations would generally take a long ass time to complete. At first I thought it was the fault of Vista 64 bit, but after the same thing happened with the 32 bit version, I discovered that the hard drive I installed it on was laden with errors. I checked it out with SpinRite (awesome program for hard drive diagnostics btw) and I was getting read errors, write errors, IDE cable errors.. the works. No amount of recovery/correction could fix that, so after installing it on a fresh drive it worked like magic. Since then it has been pretty solid. I see the same stuff being said from many different sources too, which is why I was persistent in this thread. There is plenty to bash about Vista without resorting to stereotypes.

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2008, 08:20:00 am »
I had the same problem you did at first, Fozzy. The OS would bluescreen, lock up, reboot, and operations would generally take a long ass time to complete. At first I thought it was the fault of Vista 64 bit, but after the same thing happened with the 32 bit version, I discovered that the hard drive I installed it on was laden with errors.

Well, possibly that could have been a reason. But I didn't have the option to change anything out on a machine that was just hours old and I couldn't just change out the HD as it was a pre install with the recovery on the HD itself and no backup master disks.

Talk about saving me time.... I might as well have built the damned thing myself anyway. I did in the end. But it has a stable WinXP SP2 installation on it.

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2008, 02:34:39 pm »
This may be slightly off topic, but has anyone compared Taz's benchmarks with a 64 bit version of XP?  I really can't see any reason why 64 bit Vista would perform better than 64 bit XP, but maybe it does.  Driver compatibility would probably still be an issue, but at least it's a bit more mature than Vista.

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2008, 02:55:35 pm »
Aaron did I believe.  XP was about 10-15% slower IIRC.

A lot of people like to think that the only difference is the eye candy, but it just isn't true.  Also, driver compatibility I believe is somewhat worst on XP 64 then on Vista 64.

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2008, 05:01:38 am »
Hi there,
Personally, ive had a love/hate relationship with vista (64). I built a quad core/ dual sli and i kept on getting graphics driver failures (nvlddkkm), which never sorted itself out- so i decided to install xp on another hd so i could have a dual boot. Eventually i sorted out the driver issues by fully formatting the vista hd prior to doing a fresh install.

For anyone who is having probs with vista even after reinstallation- don't be dense like me, format the hd first otherwise vista keeps the old files... (i reinstalled vista 3 times with the same problem) until i saw that that all my old files were still there).


I do love the way vista looks and for 4 months it hasn't given me any issues (aside from sharing folders on my home network), but i do have xp too- as it is still an early os (remember how temperamental xp used to be).  Mame-wise, vista works great- i've had no issues since the graphics problem, and i can honestly say- i haven't used xp for ages.

And after all this Crysis runs like a pig....

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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2008, 10:18:03 am »
I have 5 systems, vista is on 4 of them & 1 my sons is xp still.  I also use xp all day at work, the miltiary will not upgrade for a long time.  Vista is "ok", it is a lot slower than xp, I used tweek guides on my systems & stripped the vista down to where its xp with direct x 10 drivers...rumor has it the next service pack will increase performance I hope so.  When 1 sets up vista always do it from a clean install, lots of people have had issues doing the upgrades.
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2008, 04:30:02 pm »
I have 5 systems, vista is on 4 of them & 1 my sons is xp still.  I also use xp all day at work, the miltiary will not upgrade for a long time.  Vista is "ok", it is a lot slower than xp, I used tweek guides on my systems & stripped the vista down to where its xp with direct x 10 drivers...rumor has it the next service pack will increase performance I hope so.  When 1 sets up vista always do it from a clean install, lots of people have had issues doing the upgrades.


That's pretty sound advice regardless of what OS you're talking about.  Upgrading an OS is like putting a new engine into a beat up old car frame.  The potential for problems far outweight any performance gains you may think you're getting.  Whenever upgrading an OS, do a complete reformat of the hard drive and install a clean copy.  Upgrading without a clean install can only cause problems, not solve them.
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2008, 04:31:43 pm »
Over the years I have tried to do upgrades several times & never once was it problem free. 
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Re: Vista64 and driver compatibility
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2008, 06:37:34 pm »
I have loved to try out Vista 64 or XP 64 but I can not get confirmation if MALA and soft 15khz work with either OS.

Can anyone confirm?