Encoder question (Mini-pac specifically)

[Lakersfan]

I don't know why this confuses me SO much. It seems like an easy question to find an answer to, but I just can't see it. Here's my deal:
Will the mini-pac work for this set up?

2 - U360 joysticks (that would plug directly into the PC via USB not using the mini-pac)
14 - player buttons (7 for each joystick)
2 - pinball side buttons
1 - dedicated 1 player button
1 - dedicated 2 player button
1 - dedicated player 1 coin button
1 - dedicated player 2 coin button
2 - dedicated Pause buttons
2 - dedicated Exit buttons
2 - admin buttons (haven't decided how to use them; probably one will be a left mouse button, one will be a shift button)
1- Highlip HAPP trackball
no spinner (yet).

I don't need any LEDs or special features with the exception for the shift feature just in case.

And just to confirm: when I set the buttons up, everything will remain programmed after reboot, correct? (I think that's what EEPROM means) 

Thanks guys!!

[Kajoq]

How big is your panel going to be that you need a pause and exit button for each player?  That seems rather redundant.

Anyways - A minipac will not be able to handle all those buttons.  For that many you'll actually need an Ipac4.  To handle the trackball you need either a minipac or an optipac.

[Lakersfan]

It is 36" long. I guess it is redundant, but the holes are drilled, so... 

That being said, I guess I figured that being a keyboard encoder, I could reassign any of the 28 inputs to whatever I needed. So since my joysticks will plug directly into the USB, I'd have all those 28 total inputs to use for button usage.

Maybe someone can help me with this - how many total buttons can I get with with the following:
I-PAC2
I-PAC4
Mini-PAC

Thanks for your help.

[genesim]

Just out of curiosity...so the holes are already drilled...COOL.   But why do they have to be separate pause buttons?   Why not just daisy chain those commands to do the same thing.   I understand you want each player to press pause, but is there really going to be a "race" to do so??  If its paused, nobody plays, so why does it need to be different?

[Tiger-Heli]

Yes, EEPROM means everything remains programmed.

It looks to me like it should support it, but I see no need for dual dedicated PAUSE inputs and EXIT inputs.  If you want two buttons connected together so they are convenient for each player that's different (but not sure that's a good idea for exit, but ...).

What you are taking about would essentially be connecting one pause button to an input that sends P, a second button to an input that sends O, and re-configuring MAME so that Pause was "Either O or P".  That should work, but it's pretty pointless.

Maybe someone can help me with this - how many total buttons can I get with with the following:

I-PAC2 - 28 Inputs, but only 27 can be "Action" inputs if the shift function will be used.
I-PAC4 - 56 Inputs, but only 54 can be "Action" inputs if both shift functions will be used.
Mini-PAC - 30 Total Inputs, 28 programmable, but only 29 can be "Action" inputs if the shift function will be used (same as I-PAC2 plus left and right mouse buttons that can't be re-assigned).

[Lakersfan]

Just out of curiosity...so the holes are already drilled...COOL.   But why do they have to be separate pause buttons?   Why not just daisy chain those commands to do the same thing.   I understand you want each player to press pause, but is there really going to be a "race" to do so??  If its paused, nobody plays, so why does it need to be different?

I guess I really didn't think it over that well. I was just thinking for convenience of each player to have their own pause or exit button. I really don't have my heart set on it and now that a few of you have brought it up, it really does make not sense to have the 2 seperate pause and exit buttons. Maybe I'll get that GGG spinner I've debated about and move a few things around on the ol' CP.

I-PAC2 - 28 Inputs, but only 27 can be "Action" inputs if the shift function will be used.
I-PAC4 - 56 Inputs, but only 54 can be "Action" inputs if both shift functions will be used.
Mini-PAC - 30 Total Inputs, 28 programmable, but only 29 can be "Action" inputs if the shift function will be used (same as I-PAC2 plus left and right mouse buttons that can't be re-assigned).

So by reading this, I can get away with using either the I-PAC2 w/ OptiPAC or the Mini-PAC. If that's true, why would Kajoq say I need an IPAC4? (Not trying to call ya out, Kajoq. I'm just trying to understand these things.)

Another question: Will the GGG TT2 spinner be able to connect to a mini-PAC or Opti-PAC if I order the "slave configuration"?

Thanks everyone for your responses!!!!!

[Tiger-Heli]

I guess I really didn't think it over that well. I was just thinking for convenience of each player to have their own pause or exit button. I really don't have my heart set on it and now that a few of you have brought it up, it really does make not sense to have the 2 seperate pause and exit buttons. Maybe I'll get that GGG spinner I've debated about and move a few things around on the ol' CP.

You're not paying attention to what we are telling you.  There is no problem with having two pause buttons on your panel.  There is no reason to have two pause inputs.  Set one of your I-PAC inputs to Pause and wire both buttons to that.

The same is true of the exit buttons as well - except here I see a potential problem when one person wants to exit and the other doesn't:
Player 1:  I suck at this game this is boring.  I lost my last guy 15 minutes ago and you still have 5 ships left.
Player 2:  Shut up, I'm almost to a new high score.
Player 1:  I want to play Tempest instead - hits his Exit button.
That can be messy even with only one exit button, but with two it's more likely.

Although the TT2 spinner sounds like a good idea.

So by reading this, I can get away with using either the I-PAC2 w/ OptiPAC or the Mini-PAC.

Mini-Pac would be much cheaper if you only have a single spinner and trackball, which it sounds like you do.

If that's true, why would Kajoq say I need an IPAC4? (Not trying to call ya out, Kajoq. I'm just trying to understand these things.)

My guess is that he didn't see that you were using U360 joysticks, which otherwise would subtract another 8 inputs.

Another question: Will the GGG TT2 spinner be able to connect to a mini-PAC or Opti-PAC if I order the "slave configuration"?

I think RandyT said it should work but he wouldn't guarantee performance, but I would verify with him first unless anyone else knows?

[Lakersfan]

You're not paying attention to what we are telling you.  There is no problem with having two pause buttons on your panel.  There is no reason to have two pause inputs.  Set one of your I-PAC inputs to Pause and wire both buttons to that.

Thanks I think it clicked in my head now.

I think RandyT said it should work but he wouldn't guarantee performance, but I would verify with him first unless anyone else knows?

I will PM Randy and let you know what I find out.

Thanks!!

[Lakersfan]

Per RandyT in a PM:

You probably can, but it's not a recommended configuration.  Due to the high-res nature of the device, it should have a dedicated interface.

[tomsurfnj]

I was able to get 28 buttons mapped , plus 2 mouse buttons via my mini-pac. I would just share your pause, exit and coin buttons. Since they will be doing the exact same thing. I have mine shared.

[Lakersfan]

Thanks guys, this is just the kind of feedback I needed.

[northerngames]

a mini-pac with opti would work for the above as long as the joysticks work on there own.

and as stated in the post above run your same signal wire from the left side pause terminal and connect it to your right side pause terminal.

puase is puase and exit is exit no mater wich player uses's it.

[Tiger-Heli]

Per RandyT in a PM:

You probably can, but it's not a recommended configuration.  Due to the high-res nature of the device, it should have a dedicated interface.

OTOH, it doesn't save you money, but the non-slave TT can control a trackball (with the spinner on the Z-axis) for $7 more than the slave, which would let you use the I-Pac2 instead of the Mini-Pac (which is $10 more expensive but easier to wire).

And if you are going that route, since the optical controls are off the encoder, you could go with a KeyWiz or GPWiz if you wanted to.

But I likely threw too many choices at you so post back if you are confused.

[AndyWarne]

Our SpinTrak spinner works fine with the Mini-PAC and is comparable in resolution to the TT2 so I would expect that to work as well.
Andy

[Tiger-Heli]

Our SpinTrak spinner works fine with the Mini-PAC and is comparable in resolution to the TT2 so I would expect that to work as well.
Andy

True, I forgot about that (more properly didn't think about it).  Personally, I like the way the TT2 mounts similarly to a standard pushbutton, but ...

[knave]

Just thought i'd chime in to remind you that the U360's each have there own 8 input encoder to add to those from the minipac.

So:
Minipac ......30(28) inputs
2XU360's....16 inputs (plus they save the 8 inputs normaly needed for joys)

Total...........46 inputs (44 prog)

Unless I'm mistaken this is right. (with that many you have room for lots of redundant buttons)

[genesim]

I really don't have my heart set on it and now that a few of you have brought it up, it really does make not sense to have the 2 seperate pause and exit buttons.

I think you are misintepreting my meaning.

I meant that instead of having each button as a separate command, just daisy chain them all together.   i.e.  "P" is the command, and have player 1, player 2, player 3...etc. all be "P".

But yeah, more then one is overkill to me, but then again it is personal preference.    But you don't have to make them all different even if they are physically different buttons.

They are only microswitches, so as long as you have them grounded correctly, which ever button breaks the continuity....it is the same difference.   Kind of like having a water line.   If you have several different valves, any of them will do the trick on shutting it off.

[genesim]

oops I didn't read enough.   yeah...what they said. 

[Tiger-Heli]

Total...........46 inputs (44 prog)
Unless I'm mistaken this is right.

Not quite right - Andy correct me if I'm wrong.
I think the U360 has 8 gamepad buttons (not programmable), so the 16 inputs are read as J1B1, J1B2, etc.  Not much of an issue for MAME, but also not an additional 16 keyboard encoder inputs.

(with that many you have room for lots of redundant buttons)

Again,  redundant buttons are not a problem, redundant inputs are.

You could have a 5-input encoder and want to have a pause button for each hand of every player and connect 16 buttons to the input mapped to pause and it should work fine.

Now if you take that same encoder and either program two of the inputs to "P" or leave one as "P" and one as "O" and map Pause to "O or P" in MAME, you esentially now have only a 4-input encoder b/c you can't do anything unique with that input.

[Lakersfan]

Wow, great information guys. So many decisions, but this thread has helped me tremendously. At least I know if I end up getting a mini-PAC or an Ipac2/optipac combo that I wouldn't be stuck with the wrong thing(s).

One thing is for sure, I am convinced the pause and exit buttons for each player is redundant and not needed. So that leaves me with 2 extra holes that I can use as admin buttons.

Thank you!

[Tiger-Heli]

So that leaves me with 2 extra holes that I can use as admin buttons.

Or dual spinners that you could use for Blasteroids or Etch-A-Sketch or ... Driving Games - that's the ticket!!!!

[Lakersfan]

Or dual spinners that you could use for Blasteroids or Etch-A-Sketch or ... Driving Games - that's the ticket!!!!

lol dual spinners? hmmm ...