Kasco - Ninja Gun

[ninjagun]

Xiaou2, I'll post some pictures later of how the readjusted assembly looks without the shielding.

I was in a rush earlier (had to get ready for work) and left out some important details. 

The metal shield is not what keeps the holders in place. There is a metal brace, one at each end, inside the assembly, that keeps the "holders" in place. The light holders are screwed onto the braces. Unscrew the braces from the holders.
You can easily slide these braces back and forth inside the assembly and even remove them if you have to. You can just slide them toward the center of the assembly to give yourself enough room to bring the holders out from under the brace.
You then screw the holders back on top of the brace, not behind it, using the hole in the brace closest to the edge of the light assembly. You'll need at least a 3/4" or 1" screw to attach the holders onto the brace. Adjust the ends of the holders so that they are flush with the outer edges of the light assembly. Now you can install any 24" fluorescent tube. 
 

[ninjagun]

Wanted to know if any of you had found the "Spare Parts" bag in your machines ?
I found the small brown bag in my machine which had a few spare bulbs, a couple fuses and such with it.

No, I haven't found any spare-parts bag in my machine. Where did you find it? In the marquee section?
Luckily though, I found someone selling a Ninja Gun machine for parts last week and bought it (no gun however). So that should make up for it.

And about adjusting the replay points; I did know about that. I have mine set at 20 points.

I didn't know you could adjust the counter though. How long can you actually set the game to play for?

[Kevin Mullins]

I found the spare parts bag in the bottom of the cabinet along with the manual. (which is missing a couple pages)

I believe the only thing adjustable is the replay trigger "counter" .... not the game play length. Maybe I mis-worded something in my description.

But definitely looking forwarded to seeing the details on the newest addition to the Ninja Gun collection.
 

[ninjagun]

But definitely looking forwarded to seeing the details on the newest addition to the Ninja Gun collection.
 

Actually, it's in really bad shape. It's missing the front access panel as well as both back panels. It has no power cord or gun, and some of the artwork inside is torn, possibly missing. It's also missing the all the metal trim. I'll fix what I can on it.  But I mainly got it for using the hardware inside as spare parts for my main Ninja Gun. Maybe I can finally get that wall-climbing ninja target to work properly.

[Kevin Mullins]

Well, it sounds like you have a spare parts machine at least. (wouldn't even think of using a complete machine just for parts) And seeing how hard it would be to find extra motors and whatnot for these... then it a good thing.

Finally got my "running ninjas" to "run". Pulled the sprocket and chain assembly off and unbolted the motor and was able to use some light 3in1 oil to lubricate the motor shaft while it was running. If you've ever touched the chains on these machines you have probably noticed how thick the oil feels, almost tacky/gummy. Oiling the motor and chain really brought out some junk and freed it up nicely to where the motor wouldn't strain and the little ninjas could run again.
Which by the way is apparently what the tiny allen wrench in the spare parts kit might have been for. The hex screws that lock the sprockets onto the motor shafts are TINY.

Probably should do the same to all the motors and chains, but the others a re a bit more difficult to get at. (not horribly, but enough) Will probably try to find a way to do it without complete disassembly.

One thing I HIGHLY recommend is noting or better yet taking a picture of the ninja positions and especially the contact wheel positions BEFORE removing anything.
These machine are definitely based on timing..... and getting one of those contact wheels off really throws the whole thing off. I've learn that each contact wheel really does some multi-tasking and can effect the timing of any number of other parts.

Which also made me wonder if some of ya'lls left climbing ninja targeting issues may be timing related. Since the guns are not optical or anything it is solely based on gun position and ninja position matching. (i.e also timing) So maybe even though your gun is positioned pointing at the left ninja, the game doesn't recognize that the ninja is actually there at the same time. Might be related to one of the contact wheels. Of course with me not having a gun yet I can't test this theory out fully.

[Xiaou2]

 You can use  Radio Shack's  Component cleaner to remove the gunk on the chains without
removing them from the spockets.   

 The stuff is really amazing at eating grease/gunk..etc.   Ive cleaned  trackball and  filthy dirt impacted rollerblade bearing with it... and they spun like brand new afterwards. 
(actually, spun better than new.  Longer spin time)

 It should come with a hard bristle brush extension.  If not, you could always use a
med to hard bristle toothbrush.  (probably better, cause more surface area will make
cleaning easier and faster)
 
 Be careful when cleaning though... as splattered spay could get on the artwork.  You
should cover all surrounding art with towels or something.

 
 Component cleaner has a bit of lubrication on its own.  However, Id suggest some
light  3-in-1  oil  after cleaning the chains.


 Also, remember that these motors are quite old.  Its very possible that the brushes
are worn down to almost the bare contact wires.   I know some people do rebuild
motors.   You might even be able to cut down a larger brush as well.

 My friends  Race Drivin  had brushes worn too far.   Cleaning the carbon soot
off the motor contacts really helped to eliminate the intermittent force feedback.
(jumpy - like the ninjas)    However, new brushes were the real savior.

[ninjagun]

.....made me wonder if some of ya'lls left climbing ninja targeting issues may be timing related. Since the guns are not optical or anything it is solely based on gun position and ninja position matching. (i.e also timing) So maybe even though your gun is positioned pointing at the left ninja, the game doesn't recognize that the ninja is actually there at the same time. Might be related to one of the contact wheels. Of course with me not having a gun yet I can't test this theory out fully.

The climbing ninja issue has been narrowed down the the circuit board for that ninja target. And as I said in a previous post, it looks like a bad relay on that board is causing the problem.

Both circuit boards for the wall climbing ninjas are the same. So I've swapped the boards, and whichever ninja target is running off the "bad" circuit board just won't register as being hit when you shoot it. The motors seem to run perfectly and I'd say the timing is accurate. Mine plays just like Xiaou2's video.

Hopefully that spare parts Ninja Gun has a good circuit board I can use. It should arrive next week sometime.

[ninjagun]

I bought two black lights today. Wal Mart sells them for $9.84

I tried one in the marquee. Not good. Too dark.

I put the other one in the bottom light fixture and it's okay, but still a little too dark. And you can't really appreciate the artwork with a black light on all the time.

At least we know the white black light is the original way this game is supposed to be played. But it's hard to find a white black light locally. I went to Pets Mart, and a local aquarium store but they don't carry them. 

Kevin, could you show me some pics of how the marquee and artwork look with the white black light?

[Kevin Mullins]

Kevin, could you show me some pics of how the marquee and artwork look with the white black light?

Yeah, a standard blacklight would seem to be too dark to me as well.
Which is why I believed they used the UV "white" blacklights, it doesn't wash it out by being too bright and also still helps with the fluorescent effects a bit.

I plan on taking a short video of mine working here shortly for more comparison amongst our machines and also some decent pictures once I get the chance to. I'll probably slide the front glass out so there's no glare and such for the video.

[Xiaou2]

 Under what conditions are you trying to play your machine?

 If your room lighting is too bright... then sure.. you will have trouble seeing.


 Also..  are you using the newer thin blacklight tube?   or the older 1"+ diameter?

 As the thinner bulbs let out a lot less light than the older bulbs. (less surface area)

 
 As stated before... there is no telling if the spec listed on the manual is
universal to all machines.    Ive seen one machine that used a standard screw in
bulb fixture that looked 100% factory.   

 Also, as stated, I vividly recall the game being dimly lit.   Imop,  there is no way that the
sky should look bright at night... which is what happens when you use a white
blacklight bulb.   

 I say, Turn out all the lights, and enjoy the black light goodness.   Arcades back in
the day were dark,  partly for that reason.   Most all were black light driven.


 As an Artist, I can tell what the artwork is representing.   Its using dark colors, such
as the trees in the foreground being deep dark blue.   That represents moonlight lighting.   The blue/green walls also note that its dark out..  or they would be grey. 

 You can light your machine any way you want.. but believe me... the Artist who
designed these surely would cringe seeing it lit in a way that does not represent
its original design.


 Btw - you may want to try one of those blue party lights instead of the wblb.
It would give a little more brightness,  without being too bright and yellowing
the skies.

[Kevin Mullins]

We turned out all the lights to try and take these pics, but the camera just can't capture it correctly. But maybe it'll give an idea until I can shoot a quick video.

Pic 01:
UV WBL behind marquee - The purple graphics really pop out great but can't really be seen in the pic.

Pic02:
Game lighting at idle and during first half of game. Small blue blacklight on and bottom UV white blacklight. (ninjas do glow when they start moving about)

Pic03:
Halfway through game - Red light on, bottm UV white blacklight off, small blue blacklight still on. (some ninjas showing this time)

These pics really don't do it justice, so maybe I'll try a different camera later as well as a video. 

[Kevin Mullins]

Can be seen in the marquee picture, but I just noticed my machine has starting showing 1 point automatically when I turn it on. (used to be zero like it should be)
 

[ninjagun]

Well, mine does that too so welcome to the club.

Thanks for the pics. Try the balance or white light adjustments on your camera and see if that makes the colors more accurate. I found that helps with my digital camera; and it's an older model 2 pixel.

[ninjagun]

 Under what conditions are you trying to play your machine?

 If your room lighting is too bright... then sure.. you will have trouble seeing.

 Also..  are you using the newer thin blacklight tube?   or the older 1"+ diameter?

 Also, as stated, I vividly recall the game being dimly lit.   Imop,  there is no way that the
sky should look bright at night... which is what happens when you use a white
blacklight bulb.   

I'm playing my machine with the lights off and I'm using the 1" diameter tube. I don't have trouble seeing the targets. It's just that I think the black light takes away the color from the artwork and doesn't let you appreciate it as well.

A black light tube does seem a bit too dark, but I'll leave it in until I find a white black-light. As we all agree, a normal white fluorescent tube is just way too bright to use. When playing the game in total darkness, even a white tube in the marquee seems too bright. It contrasts with the black light in the bottom and it's kind of annoying, but not too much. Kind of like trying to watch TV and having a lamp turned on, on top of it.

If you take a look at the Ninja Gun game pictured on the Ninja Gun flyer, you can see that the lighting of the game is such that you can see a yellow background and the light blue of the fortress wall. I'd say that suggests the original lighting for the game.

I know the sky wouldn't look bright at night, but it also wouldn't turn red all of a sudden. Maybe Kasco intended the game to simulate sundown (or afternoon), night, and sunrise. I did some Googling and the sky can appear red at sunrise or sundown so that could explain why Kasco used the red light. Just speculation of course.

Compared to other EM games that used black lights by Chicago Coin, Midway, etc., one would think that Ninja Gun is supposed to be as darkly lit as those games. But Ninja Gun does use 3 different lighting modes during game play. So I would think each mode is intended to be distinct.

[Xiaou2]

 The colors in the artwork are nice...  However, there is no doubt that they are
made to simulate night time.   You can tell by the palette of mostly greenish blues.
You can also see that the temple top is blue green.. where as many temple tops
are painted bright colors with spots of reds.   The greenery is not bright greens.. its
still bland bluegreens.      Yet the door is painted brown...  Why?   Because its in the
shadow where the moonlight does not hit it.


 I believe the yellow was there in the backdrop for two reasons.  1)  To give the
sunrise a much better look.  2)  To give the flash bulbs effect more pop. (when you hit a
ninja and the flash bulb goes off,  it makes the sky lighten up for a split second)


 And yes,  All of the other BL  games are very dark in nature.   While Ngun is
different... I believe,  as Ive said,  that there were some executive desigions made
to change the lighting.    Remember that this game may be one of the last few of the
EM gun games.   Its one if not the only one, that had both EM and actual
electronic component circuitboards.     

 At that state in time... Arcades may have already started to see "video" CRT games.
Arcades lighting may have changed to be a little more bright than the typical
penny arcade.   As such, extra lighting was needed to compensate for brighter
rooms... and complaints by Ops who's customers couldnt see the game well at all
in such conditions.

 
  I can tell you that no sky is yellow at night.... and if the sky was yellow.. the artwork
would reflect a much different palette with very vivid colors instead of the bland
ones you see.

 And as said,  I have seen at least one machine that used a different lighting scheme
that looked old and factory... so,  its very plausable that things were changed from
the original designers intentions.


 If you like a Yellow sky during play... then thats your business.  I personally think it
looks like Crap like that...   and do not believe any good artist would have intended
that.

[Xiaou2]

 Well, I fired up a few games today.   

  WOOT!!!   The Non-Working Ninja is working again!!!

  I played a few full games... and all was fine... until...   I got a Replay!

 Well,  it so happened that after getting the replay light on... a few more
points and it went out.   Very odd.   Tried a few more times, and same thing...

 So,  I then stopped at 80pts... waited for game to end, and pressed the
replay button.

 Fired up a free game..  however,  after only a few points... it popped the
replay light on again.    Mid game,  I pressed the replay button.. and it went
out, while wiping my score away.   But then it came back on soon after.

 Seems like the Relay that controls the Replay is acting up now. 

 Ahh well..  at least the  Ninjas all work now 

 
 You know, I did notice that the lighting is a bit dark... so I can understand wanting
to brighten it up.   I just think the WBL is way too much.   I think I will stick to using a
blue party light,  with a slightly darkened shield to darken it down even a little further.

 I did notice that the blue light, mounted near the small black light tube,  helped to
illuminate the forground trees a little more.   Gota experiment with different
lighting brightness and mounting placements...

[ninjagun]

You should check the dials on the replay score counter. They may not be sitting properly. For instance, maybe the dial for the 8 or zero is just set a little above or below its center point. 

Now that all your ninja targets are working, could you make us a new video? 

[Kevin Mullins]

 

[ninjagun]

[Kevin Mullins]

Well,decided to try and shoot a couple quick videos of my machine running while our 2yr old napped...... needless to say they are not that great. I tried darkening the surrounding lighting in order to capture the full effect of the games lighting, but all that did was make it hard for my camera to capture any good detailed footage. (aperture lighting and all that good rot) And of course my machine does not have a gun, so it's just a show of the ninja and lighting mechanics really. They are all kinda boring without any sounds and shooting action going on. Also note that these videos don't do this machine justice at all.
 
It's really hard to describe the way things really look in person, the scenery, the figures, the lighting, it's all definitely part of a well thought out design overall. Even the progressive game play which we haven't really talked about. It's starts off slow and mild and adds more and more ninjas as you go, then when the light turns red it gets even more complicated.

Anyways, the main video clip is of the machine with it's own lighting, the second with a camera light on, the third is some from the back showing the insides running a little and the last one is.... well .... I just got bored let's say.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrVP8_E1EDs[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ctp2kgfeYM[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqMtcIP2wzo[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU6Vz8e-HqE[/youtube]

[ninjagun]

Thanks for the videos, Kevin! 

I noticed that you need to adjust the metal dividers that are in between the lighted rope-ninja targets. Correct placement of those metal plates should be between each image of the lighted ninjas. No part of the metal plate should be on top of them. These metal plates keep the light focused on each individual image of the ninja target.

[Xiaou2]

Actually, it might be more than just alignment.  Sometimes the divider assembly lifts up
a few mm... and you have to bend it down.

 The reason why Ninjagun posted this... is cause when a hanging ninja is
lit.. you can see part of the other ninja next to him lit..  cause the light is
seeping to the next area.
 

[Kevin Mullins]

It's funny you guys both noticed this..... it's one of the key things I needed to look into further after noticing it when I was doing all the cleaning.
When I cleaned the jumping ninja section I actually removed all the dividers to clean the silk screened area and noticed all the dividers perfectly split each figure. But with the swinging ninja I was able to slide the piece with the images on it out and clean it easily, so the dividers didn't have to get removed. Basically all of those are right where they were when I got it. When I was putting it all back together I noticed that those for the swinging ninja didn't divide the characters very well at all, some are not even close enough to bend into place. not sure why either. Thought maybe it was intentional to give a more fluid effect to the animation by having just a tid bit of the next one showing while it progressed through the sequence quickly. But the more I watch it, the more I see it. Guess I'll pull all the dividers and see what kind of arranging and tweaking I can do to them.
And the bleedout or "glow" effect from the dividers being a little off the screen is something I spotted right off and was going to address that when I addressed the other issue. Really didn't notice it much until I cleaned all the glass and character screens, then it stood out like a sore thumb.
Didn't have any of these issues whatsoever with the jumping ninja. Go figure.

[Xiaou2]

 Well,  if I recall,   the dividers are thin aluminum.   They can bend pretty easily.
Its very possible that the factory did not have time to adjust them all 100%...
or simply forgot one here or there.

 Mine was also a bit off.   I noticed it when I went to clean it up.   After fixing
it,  it looks so much better now.

[ninjagun]

In the third video at 1:32 you can see the dividers for the 3rd ninja from the left and 4th ninja from the right definitely need to be straightened.

I've checked my machine and the dividers are screwed into a slot in the board. That slot is at the proper straight angle for each divider. Simply straightening out the dividers following that angle should bring them to their proper position.

I had to bend some of them to the proper position when I got my machine and virtually each one is exactly straight. Maybe just one may need a very slight bend to keep it between ninja targets.

[Kevin Mullins]

Definitely gonna have to take a second look at it.
I grabbed a quick pic when I had it apart during cleaning, kinda blurry but should give an idea of what I was describing as "not even close".
The red arrow is pointing to where the one is actually touching part of the framework causing the bend. The green arrows point two a couple that clearly show that even if straightened wouldn't split the images correctly.
I'll probably pull all the dividers on that section and start one at a time and see what I can get out of it.

[ninjagun]

Hey, Kev, your ninjas are reversed! You've got him swinging backwards.

I thought something looked "different". Is that the way they were when you got the game?

Flip the artwork for these ninja targets and it should be easy to align the dividers. 

[Kevin Mullins]

 
Seriously?

That's the one all I did was unscrew it, slid the graphics part out, cleaned it and slid it back together.

So does the colored side or the white side go against the bulb assemblies on your guys' machines?

Both the jumping ninja and the swinging ninja on mine had the white side against the bulbs.
(colored side facing inward towards the mirror)

Also just noticed while looking at some of my pics that if some of the bulbs sockets and dividers were slightly rearranged, or switched, then they would fit better with the bulbs being directly over the image and the dividers actually dividing the images better.
(make any sense) But I know the dividers on the other scene had slots in the wood where they set and I don't think the bulb sockets did, so it shouldn't be possible that they are mis-arranged.
Also because the one that the bend in it from being up against the frame work just doesn't seem like the craftsmanship style you see elsewhere on these machines.
Gonna have to look at the machine itself again for further investigation otherwise I'm just speculating.

Here's a little better pic of that section set in place in my machine.

[ninjagun]

The orange-color side goes against the bulbs.

With the back-flipping ninja, the white side is against the bulbs.

[Kevin Mullins]

Hmmmm ..... very interesting.

Wonder if Xiaou2's is the same as yours or mine?

Guess I shouldn't re-arrange any dividers and such until I take a look at the "backwards" situation.
But I know for a fact that mine came with the white side against the bulbs.
(heck, it's the one staring you in the face as soon as you open the back up)

[ninjagun]

His is the same as mine. So there should be no doubt.

See his post on page 2 of this thread. It's the 2nd post from the bottom. 

[Kevin Mullins]

Ah yes .... and he had a pic of his swinging ninjas in action up a bit further from that and also I checked out his video again..... and sure enough, that might make a huge difference if I flip that piece around. That would totally change where the dividers fall and would also help with some of the bleedover as well.
 

[Kevin Mullins]

ninjas don't use guns

Nope they do not.  Its one of the reasons why they dont do very good against
they player who Has a Rifle.

Saw this as a T-shirt and chuckled when I thought about this thread.

[ninjagun]

Nice shirt!

By the way,  did you correct your backwards ninjas?

[Kevin Mullins]

Yeah .... I got the swinging ninjas turned around.

Wow, what a difference.

Just barely had to tweak the dividers to get them to split the images. Much different from before when they weren't even close. (makes sense now)
And the images are much clearer now because both the bulbs and dividers are lined up correctly with the images.
Still have an ever so slight bit of bleedover coming from under the dividers. Was able to tweak most if it out, but there are a couple that just won't cooperate quite enough. (will play with it some more of course)

Tried to get a couple pics, but they turned out poorly.

[ataritoobin]

I realize this is an old thread, but it also happens to be one of the most comprehensive sources of Ninja Gun information on the net.

Curious if anyone has some good pics of the upper Glass/Marquee retainer? Seems as though it's made out of wood with an aluminum face.

Curious of the dimensions and how it attaches as mine is missing - thanks!

[CaptainNeo]

I just joined the Ninja Gun club yesterday.      Does anyone have a picture on how the control disc in the bottom right corner is suppose to be aligned?  I took mine off to clean it.  didn't realize it wasn't keyed and there isn't anything in the manual I have that says what the starting point is suppose to be at, in conjunction with the micro switch cam.

[CaptainNeo]

I wanted to add some pictures of mine.  Finally got everything working correctly, thou, one of my wall climbers runs backwards sometimes.   Not sure why, but it's something on one of the boards.  When i swapped PB 02 to the other side. the problem followed it, so I know its' board related.  Would like to upload some pics, but don't know how on this site.

[gloogun]

This is an old thread, but a good one. Lot's of great info

I am planning on running a reproduction set for the interior artwork and targets. I've started an interest thread here with details:

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=450077

Let me know if you need a set!