Kasco - Ninja Gun

[ninjagun]

I need an opinion from you guys.....

How do you think the look and gameplay of this Ninja Gun would be with a pistol type gun instead of the rifle?

I found a guy that has one and the guts of the assembly seem to match perfectly.... just that it has a pistol instead of a rifle.
He's in Canada, so I can't "try" it out or anything.

After months of merely thinking about it, I'm FINALLY posting some pics of Ninja Gun with the Kasco pistol installed in place of the original rifle. 







It works flawlessly! The only difference in gameplay from the rifle is your stance when aiming. The pistol is all metal except for the handle, or grip, which is plastic.

Another difference is that the wire that connects the pistol to the game has a male connection. On the rifle it is a female connection. So now you have a male-to-male connection. 

Just use some heat-shrink tubing or something similar to keep the 2 ends held together. As long as they make contact, the game will work.

I don't recommend electric tape because it will leave a sticky residue and come undone over time.

[Kevin Mullins]

Awesome !! 

So glad it worked out for you.
I think we were all pretty sure it would, but it's soooo much cooler seeing it in place and fully functional.

So you have both the pistol and the rifle now correct ?

Envious..... I've actually been thinking about dragging my machine out and going through it and getting it operational even without a gun yet. I've been re-arranging alot of my machines and that is still one I would like to have out for show soon. 

[ninjagun]

Yes, I have both the pistol and the rifle.

You really should get your machine out and start cleaning it, etc. This post is a sign that means you need to get some use out of your machine and start enjoying it!  Once you get your game up and running that will be one less thing on your mind.

A few weeks ago I rigged the coin-return button on my Ninja Gun to activate the credit-switch. Now I don't have to open the front panel just to hit the switch and start a game. I didn't change or modify any of the original hardware. I just added a piece of wire that I cut from a wire clothes-hanger and some thread.

And remember, this pistol is yours when you're ready.

 

[fixedpigs]

Another difference is that the wire that connects the pistol to the game has a male connection. On the rifle it is a female connection. So now you have a male-to-male connection.

easy there now...there are kids that read this forum...!

that ninja gun looks bad ass...i hope to have an em game some day...

[ninjagun]

Another difference is that the wire that connects the pistol to the game has a male connection. On the rifle it is a female connection. So now you have a male-to-male connection.

easy there now...there are kids that read this forum...!

Something told me I wouldn't get away with saying that. 

[Kevin Mullins]

Ya know... I think I will go ahead and drag it out and go through my machine. 
Will be nice to see another one of these up and running again.

And I most appreciate that you still hold to your offer on the gun.
Will most definitely follow up with you on it.

And I have found that those male ends fit well inside a butt connector.
Just push one into each end, no need to crimp.
(there.... now your post doesn't sound quite sooo bad)

I think it was the 10 or the 14 gauge connector.
Some brands may fit a bit differently though.




 

[Kevin Mullins]

Well, I finally decide to drag this thing into the house where I could work on it and clean it up nicely. Haven't done much to it but get an idea how extensive it will be.
Besides, my little girl won't let me get into it without her sitting up on the front ledge and watching everything.
Which is cool, because the more I coin it up for her to watch, the more it seems to come back to life.
So basically a good cleaning of all the contact and connectors should do wonders for it.

The only thing that has me concerned is that most of the paper artwork needs cleaned, so I'll have to be careful with that. I wiped a few of the ninjas off with an ever so slightly damped cloth and it seemed to work fine without damage to the art or any kind of warpage.

The worst part is the "ground" art....... please tell me this isn't what I think it is.

[Kevin Mullins]

Quick question for those of you with functional machines ..... is this bulb assembly for like the gunshots or something?
(I haven't look through the manual yet for it)

I just noticed it there, but have never seen it do anything yet.
(of course I can't shoot anything yet either)

[Xiaou2]

 Its a Flasher bulb.   

 When you "Hit"  a ninja,  that bulb will create a very quick and bright flash.

 
 As for the bottom floor,  you may have to put down some paper layers over it.
(or cardstock...etc)

You might be able to paint it... but it you would have to be very good about
masking the other art... as any small dot will show up in the blacklight very
brightly.

 

[Kevin Mullins]

Kinda figured that's what that little bulb unit was.
It'll be neat to see it in action.

Pretty much all of the artwork has many years of warehouse dust and such on it, so I'll probably take a look at removing the entire setup as much as possible. Looks like some of the bigger pieces, like the ground, may be stapled directly to the cabinet though. Once again, just need to look into it deeper.

All in all it's in great shape.
A few extra bumps and bruises from being moved and stored than I would like, but should clean up nicely. There are a few dings on the metal "t-molding" which kinda sucks, but there again shouldn't be too noticeable once cleaned up.

Also have to find a set of locks for it. The only original locks left on it were on the coin box and one of the back doors. And of course I don't have keys for either of them, but they are already open at least.

[Kevin Mullins]

Hmmm... looks like that entire scenery assembly is removable, mechanics and all.
(except the yellow-green bacground color)

That should make working on it much easier, especially the artwork.
I'll have to snap a pic when I get it out.

[Xiaou2]

 Kev,

 Watch my video of the machine in action and you will see the flashes
when the ninjas get hit.

 If you decide to try to remove the staples to any of the colored artwork,
be aware that it may leave a white spot which will glow when black-lit.

 You may have to do some touchup paint afterwards.


 I cleaned mine with some cleaning solution on a lightly damp cloth.   
Worked really well.

 Dont forget, you will have to clean the mirror on both sides, as well as the
front glass inside..   and the "light ninja" assemblies on both sides as well.

[Kevin Mullins]

I'm a stikler on the staples.... when I restored a pinball machine for my step-dad I removed all the paper tags that were stapled to the body and when I put them back on I made sure to put the staples back through the same holes as the originals. Now is that anal or what?

The damp cloth seemed to be working well for me also on the few test spots I did.
So I'll continue to give that a shot as you recommended it as well.

I should be able to clean most of it fairly well without too much disassembly except for the ground piece, but I'll look at that closer when I pull it out to get some ideas together.

All the glass definitely needs cleaned. It's pretty nasty right now and the light ninjas don't show up very well.

Gonna go check out your video now........

[ninjagun]

Alright! Soon another Ninja Gun brought back to life!!!

[pinballwizard79]

ninjas don't use guns

[Xiaou2]

Nope they do not.  Its one of the reasons why they dont do very good against
they player who Has a Rifle.   

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01bxPLnP2bk&eurl=http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=73371.40[/youtube]

[SithMaster]

Nope they do not.  Its one of the reasons why they dont do very good against
they player who Has a Rifle.   

I wonder how they do against a pistol.   

This game looks amazing.  Its a shame the ninjas don't throw stars at you or something.  After I read this I checked ebay to see if one was local to me and all I found was a Monster Gun.

[Kevin Mullins]

Browse around for any old Electro Mechanical game ...... I think they are all cool personally. 

Quick question for you current Ninja Gun owners - the "ground" artwork on mine clearly has water damage and I'm getting ready to repair that section..... is yours actually white or is it more of an off white ? (and I don't mean just dirty white, kinda of an eggshell white or something)

I may have to replace the yellow/green colored parts as well, but one section at a time for now.

[ninjagun]

You're right; kind of an off-white/egg-shell white color. Definitely not a "pure" white.

[Kevin Mullins]

A little progress..... found some mattboard at a local Hobby Lobby that seemed fairly close. This particular color i bought was called "Ivory Fiber". I didn't have a piece of the old with me to compare, so I probably could have gotten a little closer. But I think it should look good once it's all back in the cabinet.
One before pic and the rest are after the new ground scenery and some clean up on the whole assembly.
More cleaning yet to come........

[ninjagun]

Looking good! Reminds me that I need to start cleaning out my machine too.

Edit: I just cleaned out my game. I had to remove a rat's nest and droppings, but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.  It was actually kinda fun taking out the artwork assembly to clean it! Now I gotta get a new fluorescent tube for the game tomorrow.

[Kevin Mullins]

Kinda plants a bug into ya once you start cleaning on it huh? 
I stayed up until like 2am again cleaning on mine.
(that and my 2yr old was "helping" earlier when I tried to work on it)

Dont forget, you will have to clean the mirror on both sides, as well as the
front glass inside..   and the "light ninja" assemblies on both sides as well.

That ain' t no lie.... mine was really caked with the dust on the mirror faces and the lighted ninjas. It's amazing how bright an brilliant everything looks now.

Cleaning wise all I have left is the top electronics shelf behind the marquee and the outside of the cabinet.

I have noticed my "running" ninjas have a slight issue. They're really a hurky jurky motion versus a smooth running action and that whole assembly is "noisy", kinda growling noise. So I'll have to take a look into that a bit more.
The only other thing I noticed is that my lighted ninjas show for a bit when I first start a game, like I might have knocked something out of time while cleaning the motor wheel or something. Before they only showed up about halfway through a game and when it was in the red light mode.
Everything else seems to be running pretty good though.
All in all aside from those couple minor issues so far everything else other than a couple light bulbs appears to be intact and working.

[Kevin Mullins]

Remember that small flyer pic I found on ebay awhile back???

Here's a better version for those of you who may not have come across one yet.

[Kevin Mullins]

I was just reading back through this thread because I tend to loose track of things already discussed....... and lighting seemed to have a few questions and now that I'm working on mine again I can be more specific as it seems to absolutely unmodified in any way.

Should have:

Marquee - 20w Fluorescent - Sylvania FL20SBL
(Which is NOT a white light, it is actually a "white" blacklight, the ones that produce UV for like aquariums and or plant grow lights)

Bottom tube light - 20w Fluorescent - Sylvania FL20SBL
(Which is NOT a white light, it is actually a "white" blacklight, the ones that produce UV for like aquariums and or plant grow lights)
 
Which explains why Xiaou2 thought his looked tooo bright with the standard white fluorescent light.

Smaller middle fluorescent - 15w Fluorescent - Sylvania Blacklight Blue F15t8/BLB
(this is more of the traditional dark blacklight to really make the fluorescent colors pop out)

Standard base bulb in the floor of the cabinet - Effective Red Lamp AC110v 60w - RED bulb Mine has a truly red bulb, almost painted look to it but from the factory. It's not like the translucent/transparent "party bulbs"....... it's a solid red.
Here's a 130v example which would actually last longer than the standard bulb. (typical an industrial use such as signs, etc.)
http://www.amazon.com/Watt-Light-Bulb-Incandescent-Volt/dp/B000CP3870

All of the "lighted ninja" and "game over" or "replay" lights are 24vDC 5w.
Similar spec bulb found here, but I'm sure I could find a closer match with some more searching around.
24v 5w Globe Bulb BA9s base

I can also tell you that the lighting sequence on mine goes something like this:
Game at Idle - Bottom UV light ON, smaller Blacklight ON
Start game - Bottom UV light ON, smaller Blacklight ON
Halfway through game - smaller Blacklight ON, when RED light bulb comes on the bottom UV light goes out
End of Game - small Blacklight remains ON, RED bulb goes out and bottom UV light comes back on and it's back to the same as Game at Idle

As for the small Blacklight.... it's on all the time, I just mentioned it in each step for clarification.

[Kevin Mullins]

Here are some pics on where the motor relay discs are and the grime you'll have to remove.

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?2d15dfe0ba.jpg

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?8b1d6b80f1.jpg

What happened to these pics ?
I looked all over this thread for them and finally realized they had just disappeared.

I need to compare my lighted ninja controller to someone elses and see if my timing is correct on it.
Seems like when I turned the wheel to clean it that it had slipped from the motor.
So I need to see where someone elses is timed at when a game ends.

[ninjagun]

Wow! Thanks for the info on the lights.

I need to replace the white fluorescent lights in my game with the proper "white" black lights. Where could I get these locally? Should I look in the aquarium section at Wal-Mart, or a pet store? 

[ninjagun]

It seems freeimagehosting.net is having problems.

Here is a pic of the timing disc for the lighted ninjas.

[Kevin Mullins]

Thanks for the pic upload..... that's exactly what I needed to see.
And your pic clarified my best guess as to where the disc should be timed.
 

I would think any good pet store would carry them.
They are apparently used on Terrariums as well.
Or a good plant nursery maybe.
I'm sure they could be had through a lighting store, if you have one around that specializes in bulbs and such.

I think they are considered a 24" bulb ...... I measured one of mine and it was 22 3/4" not including the little prongs. So if you include those it would be right close to 24". (adds 1/2" each side)

[ninjagun]

I typed in "FL20SBL" on Google and the only websites with those lights are in Chinese.

[Xiaou2]

 Nice work so far 


 As for the bulb length.. its a very odd size.   Your best plan is to replace the lamp
assembly with a modern width unit.  That is what I did.  The bulbs I found were all
for 24",  and would not quite fit into the smaller factory assembly.

 Sadly, the lamp assembly I choose doesnt seem to want to fire the bulb up all the time.   Make sure to get a good quality lamp assembly.


 I tried the  f20t12-bl   White Blacklight bulb,  and thought it was way too bright.
I then changed it to use a full sized Black Backlight bulb tube... and even that seemed
a little bright.. but much much better.   

 (Im going from Memory of the original machine from when I was 6 or 7 yrs old... as well as my personal artistic viewpoint/opinion of what I remember and or should look like)


 I suppose if you were on-location,  with lots of ambient lighting/sun,  you would
might need the extra light of a  WBL bulb.   This may have prompted a change from
the original design, to a new spec due to complaints.


  I prefer the dark night look.  IMOP The sky should look blackened, not yellow/green (which happens when lit up with White BL bulb).  The blue/green backdrop
art should blend in well,  without standing out too much.  Much like viewing things
at night would be.


 I believe there may have been a few revisions to the machines..  because Ive
seen machines which had blue light blubs in a screw-in socket assemblies.

 
 So, chalk this up to personal opinion...   but I wanted to warn you..   because I
feel Ive wasted $20+ dollars on a bulb that I will never use for this game.

[Kevin Mullins]

Xiaou2 is right ..... the new Sylvania equivalent is this.
Which matches correctly except for the overall length.

I thought the ninja Gun bulbs would be the 24", but I just remeasured everything and sure enough, they won't fit. 
 

The new Sylvania Blacklight BLUE has pretty much the same story. (the new bulbs are too long)
http://ecom.mysylvania.com/sylvaniab2c/b2c/z_login.do

I had the same problem with the fluorescent light on my jukebox, I'll check with the place I got that one from and see what they say.

[Kevin Mullins]

Reset the timing on mine and all seems MUCH better.
Matches both videos on youtube to a tee.
(although Xiaou2's actually works better than that other machine on youtube) 

My orange lighted ninjas only make it half way across the first couple times and then they seem to work fine, so will have to take peek at.
Traced it back to one of the relays on the top shelf behind the marquee. Cleaned them up a bit more and they work fine now.
What it was doing was causing the relay down by the lighted ninja contact wheel on the bottom of the cabinet to cut in and out basically turning them on and off making them start the lighting sequence over again.

[ninjagun]

Since the FL20SBL lights give off ultraviolet rays,do you think over time they could fade the colors of the artwork in the game?

I know the UV rays from the bulb may not be as intense as direct sunlight, but just wondering if the UV rays could affect the art, or even the circuits behind in the marquee, in a damaging way. What do you think?

[Xiaou2]

 UV will fade things over time.   However,  these games are very old, and do not look
too faded.   I dont think the UV levels are high enough to be a cause for concern.

 However, you could use possibly spray a top coat of clear that has UV
protectant over the art if you were really worried about it.


 As for my Video... it was token with 2 blacklight tubes.
(the small and large)

  No white blacklight bulb... as to me,  the white-blacklight bulb was way too bright.

[ninjagun]

I think I'll try a blacklight for the bottom light as well.

And just for the heck of it, how do you think the marquee would look with a blacklight in it?

[Kevin Mullins]

My marquee was missing the original bulb, but since I still had one original working UV type bulb in the bottom section (same fixture) I put it in to see what it would look like compared to a regular "white" bulb. It definitely gave it a different glow versus just being "lit up". It made the graphics pop out better, kinda ominous looking as well.

I also found out why that bulb was missing to begin with I think ..... the starter was bad and they are some sorta screw type instead of the two pronged type you see everywhere nowadays.

[ninjagun]

  As for the bulb length.. its a very odd size.   Your best plan is to replace the lamp
assembly with a modern width unit.  That is what I did.  The bulbs I found were all
for 24",  and would not quite fit into the smaller factory assembly.

 Sadly, the lamp assembly I choose doesnt seem to want to fire the bulb up all the time.   Make sure to get a good quality lamp assembly.

I just discovered that you don't need to replace the original lamp assembly in order to fit the newer 24" bulbs. 

There are 2 screws at both ends of the original lamp assembly.  They are located underneath the assembly next to the sockets for the light bulb. First, remove the innermost screws so you can remove the shielding from the bottom of the assembly, then loosen the remaining screws to adjust the sockets to fit the 24" bulb.

You may have to leave the shielding off the assembly but that's a minor thing compared to replacing the whole assembly.

I discovered this by comparing the top and bottom 20w light assemblies on my game. The top is indeed the original assembly, but it had a 24" bulb in it that fit perfectly. I compared it to the bottom assembly which is also original, but a 24" bulb wouldn't fit correctly in that one. That's when I realized that the top assembly had its bottom shielding removed. I immediately thought, "Yeah! Now I can go buy some 24" black lights!".

[Kevin Mullins]

Good info on the fluorescent fixtures. Will have to check that out for sure.

Wanted to know if any of you had found the "Spare Parts" bag in your machines ?
I found the small brown bag in my machine which had a few spare bulbs, a couple fuses and such with it.
But it was kinda cool because I needed two bulbs, one for the GAME OVER and one for the REPLAY lighting..... guess what.... there they were in the bag.
Nothing like popping in 30 year old spare parts and having them work like new again.

The manual mentions the spare parts kit. Seems like all I was really missing was the Red bulb and the Hex wrench from the list.

The coolest thing I found in the bag were this little row of numbers screen printed on aluminum and it also has a peel and stick type backing. Ironically enough, while cleaning the top electronics shelf behind the marquee I had just noticed that you could adjust the counter and adjust the Replay point in the game. (the manual also verified this and shows how)
Well, guess what these little printed numbers are for.......

Also noted that I had the original coin mech which was another bonus.

[Kevin Mullins]

I don't know if any of my other pics showed where the guy who had this machine in a warehouse went around and 'marked" all of his stuff with spray paint. (I think he shared the space and that's how he could tell what was his or something stupid)
Anyways..... both the glass and the control panel had been marked twice.....once with white paint and then again with yellow paint.
The glass obviously not a problem. Scraped it right off with a razor blade.
The control panel on the other hand is what concerned me as I didn't want to destroy the laminate finish or "dull" it in any way.
What I ended up doing what using some regular furniture polish which would soak in a tad and soften it just a hair at a time. Then I could just ever so gently scrape at it without having to get very aggressive. Did this over and over again for about an hour.
Took some time..... but well worth it. 

[Xiaou2]

 If you take of the metal shield on the lighting assembly... the bulb could easily fall out of
the end holders...  as the end holders are the held in place by the shield assembly.

 If somehow you can squeeze it in there,  and the holders are probably at bad angles... and will be very prone to the bulb slipping out.


 Blacklight tubes are pretty expensive, imagine them falling and breaking into pieces
and getting stuck in assemblies and mariring up the artwork.

 That would be a really stupid thing to risk just because you didnt want to spend 15 min installing the proper fixture.

 Its literally Two wires and two screws to replace the assembly, and takes only a
few minutes of time to accomplish.