OSCAR Push/Pull Spinner - First Impressions

[Vectoraster]

It's here!  Hats off.  You're in for a real treat.

The action is fantastic.  The spring tension is perfect.  Even better than the original.  If anybody out there is using an original and decides to order an OSCAR, you'll be amazed.  High quality and very rugged leaf switches.  Where he gets this stuff?  Who knows.

For anybody who's visited the oscarcontrols website and read the comment about the "wobble" inherent to the y-axis design...  what wobble??  I thought for sure I'd go with the copper bearing but now - no way.

Some "insider" information for you... Kelsey mentioned to me a loooong time ago that wouldn't be released until the action was perfect in every detail.  We now get to benefit from his patience.  It's not just perfect - but better than I remember.

Gotta go.  My drill press should be warmed-up by now.

[KevSteele]

I'll agree -- it's a fine piece of work. And you're right, there's no wobble.

About the only clue that it isn't a standard spinner is the slight "click" you feel when you turn it as the inner shaft pins contact the outer shaft to turn it in unison. Well, that and the fact that you can push it up and down.

About my only concern is the size of control panel space required for it (5" square, approx.) For the functionality it's well worth making room on your CP design, however!

Kevin

[OSCAR]

Thanks for the great comments Vectoraster and Kevin!

As I mentioned before, this project would have been much more difficult (or may not have happened at all) if it wasn't for Vectoraster sending me his original DOT spinner to duplicate.  I'm honored that the "Godfather" of the Oscar DOT spinner project is pleased with the end result!  

About the wobble comment in the installation instructions...  This was something that I noted during my testing of the prototype and I do realize that it has been very much reduced in the final production spinners.  But since it was something that I was aware of, I wanted to make sure I had addressed it in the event it were to come up again later.

I really doubt that many people will install the optional bearing, but I just wanted to include it anyway.  In any event, it will help center the shaft in the control panel hole during installation even if you don't want to keep it in.  Even on the prototype that I have installed in my control panel I don't have the extra bearing installed, and it is a bit looser than the production spinners.

[Magnet_Eye]

I am wondering how this DOT spinner compares to a regular one; or how it plays the normal games...

does the push/pull ever interfere with normal games, like Tempest, or any others? or is the gameplay perfect?

I am hoping that it works perfect as a normal spinner, but lets you play the DOT as well.

Damn, some crazy DOT people out there in the world to need a special spinner produced for just that one game!  

[Frostillicus]

I, too, am wodering what the free spin action is like - does it continue to spin like a regular spinner after you give it a good twirl?

My original tron spinner has a big of wobble in it that prevents it from spinning for very long - I give it a big spin and it stop almost immediately after 'wobbling' a bit.  I know this is because I installed it in wood with a slightly longer shaft than what it was designed for...

Does this happen with the new DOT spinner?  And can you play regular games without accidentally pushing it up and down?  

[MKL]

Damn, some crazy DOT people out there in the world to need a special spinner produced for just that one game!  

Personally I could care less about DOT but I think this spinner would work great for Forgotten Worlds too...

[Aceldamor]

Well, If you use your spinner as a mock steering wheel you could use the push of the spinner as a Nitro for Ivan Stewart's  

[MinerAl]

I'm thinking that this spinner could be an alternative control for the original Tron as well.

You could map the "down" leaf switch to fire.  So instead of a trigger joystick and a spinner, you'd have a trigger spinner and a joystick.  It would be awkward, and not at all faithful to the real layout, but it might work.

It could also be useful for "releasing" in Arkanoid and the like.

[Wienerdog]

I don't have this spinner yet, but that doesn't keep me from commenting.

The up an down actions trigger a leaf button.  Triggering a button that isn't mapped to anything will have NO impact on games that require a normal spinner.  

Very few people are buying this spinner just for DOT.  Out of curiosity, what games do you need a long free spin for?  I'm not saying the DOT spinner doesn't have a good free spin, I just can't think of any game that you need to give the spinner a twirl and have it spin a long time.  

[Tiger-Heli]

Out of curiosity, what games do you need a long free spin for?  

Tempest!!!

[ItzMR2u]

Just ordered mine!!!!!  Will wait patiently until a much more real feeling DOT arrives!

[OSCAR]

I've actually been playing quite a bit of Ikari & Heavy Barrel with my DOT spinner and a regular 8-way stick since I don't have a rotary joystick on my control panel.  The joystick is for movement; the spinner controls the aim, push for guns and pull for grenade.  Not exactly authentic, but functional.

The free spin time on the DOT is probably around 6 or 7 seconds, so you get multiple revolutions.  I compared it against an old Tempest spinner of mine, and the DOT actually spun longer than my Tempest spinner.  I  installed new bearings and a teflon washer in my Tempest spinner, and now the Tempest spinner will free spin a few seconds longer than my DOT.  BTW - I think Tiger-Heli must have a different Tempest strategy than I do, my hand never leaves the spinner when I play.  If I just gave it a good spin and started to shoot, I would die pretty quick!    I agree with Wienerdog, I can't think of a single game that takes advantage of giving the spinner a good twist and letting it go.

I've used the DOT spinner on many games and I haven't had a problem with accidentally acuating the leaf switches.  I'd say the tension springs are stiff enough to prevent accidental contacts.

[Wienerdog]

Tempest!!!

lol.  I think the free spin is an entertainment feature between stages.  I remember always giving the Tron spinner a fling after finishing a screen...  I don't know if that makes it a requirment, but 7 seconds should keep me satisfied.

[Frostillicus]

6-7 seconds is okay, but what is that compared to your pro model?  I think I read a review that the tornado goes like 3 minutes without stopping.  yes yes I know they are all different species of spinner, but free spinning is just darn fun!  

[Xiaou2]

"I agree with Wienerdog, I can't think of a single game that takes advantage of giving the spinner a good twist and letting it go."  - oscar quote
----------

  A few spring to mind right away:

   Super Sprint
   Championship sprint
   Turbo
   Hot Rod (not emulated fully yet   ):
   Offroad
   
  Im sure there are some more... but those are the ones I play the most.  My fav being the Sprint series  ^_^

  Of course... these were all 360 degree wheels... but basically is the same thing...  requiring several rotations of the wheel to make good turns.  (between 4 and maybe 12  rotations per turn!)  
   
  Though - its not just about spintime... I think its also about ease of the spin motion.  Sure you could really twist a spinner with every ounce of strength and let loose a powerfull spin that last 7 to 10 seconds... but youd probably hurt your wrist after a few times!  hehe    It more about a baby soft glide that requires almost no effort at all to be it to go - and to keep going at that same rate for the said time till you decide to stop it.

 If oscars DOT spinners used ball bearings... Id buy 2 right away.

[Wienerdog]

I estimate a minimum of 5 revolutions per second minimum, so I think you'd be fine in those games.  Just wear gloves so you can grab the 2" knob that you let loose.  lol.

Anyway, back on topic.  Thanks for the reviews VR!

[OSCAR]

 A few spring to mind right away:

   Super Sprint
   Championship sprint
   Turbo
   Hot Rod (not emulated fully yet   ):
   Offroad
   
  Im sure there are some more... but those are the ones I play the most.  My fav being the Sprint series  ^_^

  Of course... these were all 360 degree wheels... but basically is the same thing...  requiring several rotations of the wheel to make good turns.  (between 4 and maybe 12  rotations per turn!)

I think you missed my point.  What I was getting at is that a 6-7 second free spin time is not a deficiency.  Do you have any idea how many revolutions you can make in 6 seconds?  Many more than are required by any game, even the steering wheel games you listed.


The Pro spinner is probably around 10 seconds or so.  I've never actually timed any of the spinners like this with a stopwatch because I feel that this is a rather ridiculous measurement of a spinner's game performance.  However, many people will use this as a benchmark because it is a very easy thing to compare and it is visual.  Some people might say, "Well, that shows that it is low friction!".  Perhaps, but I've yet to see a "low friction" arcade spinner.  Even a finely tuned and well-maintained Tempest spinner most likely won't exceed 15-20 seconds of free spin, and Tempest is probably the lightest feeling arcade spinner I've come across.

[SlikStik-Christian]

 A few spring to mind right away:

   Super Sprint
   Championship sprint
   Turbo
   Hot Rod (not emulated fully yet   ):
   Offroad
   
  Im sure there are some more... but those are the ones I play the most.  My fav being the Sprint series  ^_^

  Of course... these were all 360 degree wheels... but basically is the same thing...  requiring several rotations of the wheel to make good turns.  (between 4 and maybe 12  rotations per turn!)

I think you missed my point.  What I was getting at is that a 6-7 second free spin time is not a deficiency.  Do you have any idea how many revolutions you can make in 6 seconds?  Many more than are required by any game, even the steering wheel games you listed.


The Pro spinner is probably around 10 seconds or so.  I've never actually timed any of the spinners like this with a stopwatch because I feel that this is a rather ridiculous measurement of a spinner's game performance.  However, many people will use this as a benchmark because it is a very easy thing to compare and it is visual.  Some people might say, "Well, that shows that it is low friction!".  Perhaps, but I've yet to see a "low friction" arcade spinner.  Even a finely tuned and well-maintained Tempest spinner most likely won't exceed 15-20 seconds of free spin, and Tempest is probably the lightest feeling arcade spinner I've come across.

Kelsey,

   I just thought I

[OSCAR]

Kelsey,

   I just thought I

[Vectoraster]

I forgot to mention one of the coolest things about it is sooo MAME-friendly.  By that I mean it's designed to fit 3/4" wood CP's by default.  And the use of spacers gives you literally unlimited possibilities (regarding panel thickness.)  The original was sized for thin metal only so it was very tough to incorporate in home projects. From the top, all you see is the knob.  Just look at what OSCAR did (just by pure coincidence I had the perfect location for it so now my PRO is on the correct side for Tempest while the up/down is on the correct side for DoT.)

[KevSteele]

Just a little followup on my previous posts. I installed the DOT spinner on my "Spinner Table" for my upcoming Spinner Roundoup article.

(More pics on my site)

The up/down motion on the DOT is very quick - the DOT has a good spring. It's not as quick as a button, but it's probably fast enough for, say, Tron. I haven't given it a full playtest yet, but I'll report back once I have.

Kevin

[OSCAR]

VR - Nice pics of the installation!  I'm gonna steal those for my Installations page, you may have the most Oscar Controls products installed in a single control panel that I've ever seen!  I might owe you sponsorship dues or something...  


Kevin - Looks great!  My test panel looks like swiss cheese...  Don't forget to add a couple of pushbuttons for play testing games, though.  Let me know if you need a couple buttons, and I'll send them out to you tomorrow.  I almost threw a handful in with the spinners, too, but I wasn't sure how you were planning to test the spinners.

[SlikStik-Christian]

Kelsey,

   I just thought I

[shmokes]

Wow...the incredible absence of tact you are displaying amazes me, Christian.  At the very least those comments belong in a different thread, if not a PM.  my 2 cents.

[OSCAR]

Wow...the incredible absence of tact you are displaying amazes me, Christian.  At the very least those comments belong in a different thread, if not a PM.  my 2 cents.

Tell me about it.   I'm not even bothering to reply to his last tirade....  

[Warborg]

Seems to me that SlikStik lost some stock because of your trying to hijack the thread for your product, Christian...  I already questioned your shipping on a simple knob in another thread, now I KNOW I don't want to order from you.

Long live OSCAR...  

Warborg

[jdjuggler]

I do more reading than posting on this board, but I was compelled to comment.
Christian - You're right!  Your spinner is made well and spins for a very long time.  In fact, I have one on my desk and I spin it real hard, watch it spin...  then I go play a game or two with my OSCAR spinner.
You've lost credibility and sales with your ridiculous bantor.
Have a nice day!

[anthony691]

Wow, Kelsey really does great work!!! (Impressive!)

Christian, What good could a spinner spinning forever do for you? I could see how this would be good for a trackball (for like Bowl-A-Rama esqe games), but how would this be good for any realistic purpose?

Just thaught I would add...

"No not advertising, just telling you FACT." can be found in the SAME post as "be able to stop on the dime, be easy to switch directions, have an "adjustable" shaft, have superior mouse tracking accuracy, the Tornado has these all." (that last part sounds fresh out of an add!)

I thaught that was odd...

PS: I don't have the cash at the moment It looks like I may have to sell some stuff.

So instead I am really getting serious about building spinners! I can see how it would be a SWEET job! I am working on ~ my 6th hack spinner, I haven't had any PERFECT results yet, but I am getting close; my latest uses bearings I actually got ordered instead of ripping them out of a HD I have some soldering to attach push buttons- the mouse buttons, but then I am done! Soon I hope to get a decent website up.

[SirPoonga]

Vectoraster, Your website down?  I want to see more pics of your cabinet in whole.


Everyone else, let it rest, don't turn this into a mudslinging thread.  Ignore comments if you have to.

[Vectoraster]

Vectoraster, Your website down?

Kind of - I ran out of space - too many photos.  Over the next 2 weeks I'll be moving it over to www.pcreliability.com to finish it up.  Until then here is a shot of the finished cab:

[Vectoraster]

you may have the most Oscar Controls products installed in a single control panel

Wait till you see what the restrictor plates allow me to do with my LS-30's.  Good grief you rock!

[CitznFish]

Wow...the incredible absence of tact you are displaying amazes me, Christian.  At the very least those comments belong in a different thread, if not a PM.  my 2 cents.

...nods his head....

[SirPoonga]

Kind of - I ran out of space - too many photos.  Over the next 2 weeks I'll be moving it over to www.pcreliability.com to finish it up.  Until then here is a shot of the finished cab:

I like the sideart.  What city is it?  How did you do it?

[shmokes]

I think that's a Wilsonart laminate.


edit:  Speaking of which, I went to home depot to order in some laminate.  I was planning to get a couple of different ones.  One was like $1.80 per square foot...reasonable, I guess.  The other was over $6.  It was nearly $200 for one 4'x8' sheet!!!  That's insane.  I'm so pissed as it was to match my t-molding, which I already got (and which also cost me an arm and a leg).  I haven't ordered the laminate yet...not sure if I will.  I want to make this thing right...how I want it...enjoy it for years, etc....but jesus, $200 for one sheet of laminate?

[skirge66]

you guys are all fools...don't you all remember the good ol days of going to the arcades and just spinnining the spinners because you didn't have any quarters? ahh now that was fun!

seriously though, i think both of these are great products created by very talented people. christian you need to releax, you have a good product, good products sell, there is no reason at all to bash anyone else...all you do is destroy your own credibility, you do not need to be insulting to make your product better.

Kelsey, again your integrety holds true, not only do you produce a top notch product, but you carry yourself with the highest level of professionalism. I for one am glad for every purchase i've made from you, and have been overjoyed with everything I've bought. I will continue to be your customer, because I beleive it takes more than a slick product to make the sale. when you know you're good, you just plain don't need to go out of your way to prove everyone else is worse.

christiam...there is a leason to be learned here

[hyiu]

Kind of - I ran out of space - too many photos.  Over the next 2 weeks I'll be moving it over to www.pcreliability.com to finish it up.  Until then here is a shot of the finished cab:

I like the sideart.  What city is it?  How did you do it?

sadly... that city is New York City... with the twin towers which is gone now by the 9/11 attack....

the cab is done very nice....

[Tiger-Heli]

BTW - I think Tiger-Heli must have a different Tempest strategy than I do, my hand never leaves the spinner when I play.  If I just gave it a good spin and started to shoot, I would die pretty quick!    

As Weinerdog replied, it is fun to zing it around between levels (if you start before it shoots spikes at you), and as you suggest, I do die pretty quick.

[Tiger-Heli]

Actually I forgot to tell everyone, there in a new game that comes with each Tornado Spinner, it?s called "Beat the best spin time". Every time you go to play a game on your arcade machine you should give your Tornado a good spin and time it to see if you can beat the highest time :-)

Now this is FUNNY!!!  Assuming the 3 minute spin-time is accurate, and I'm not arguing it, just have no way to verify and don't care . . .

I have MAME custom compiled to remove nag screens, and if I could, I would eliminate the 15-20 seconds of ROM checks that it goes through before the games start, but I'm supposed to wait 3 minutes before playing to see if I can "beat the best spin time".  I don't think so . . .

In Christian's defense (why I'm defending him, I'm not sure???) this post was only added after Frosticillus comment regarding the Tornado spinner, but yeah, it would have been more tactful to stay out of it.

[KevSteele]

Assuming the 3 minute spin-time is accurate, and I'm not arguing it, just have no way to verify and don't care . . .

I can confirm a 3-minute spin time with the Tornado. I don't think spin time is a good metric for how well a spinner "plays" during a game, but it is a good indicator of how well balanced and smooth a spinner is.

The Tornado is very easy to spin (and I'd recommend you keep you hands on it at all times during gameplay, especially during Tempest -- otherwise you may find yourself drifting into a spike!)

The ease of spinning a Tornado makes it feel very "light" -- if you want a heavier feel to a spinner (more like a Breakout dial), the Oscar Pro or Up/Down spinner is better suited.

I tried to use the Up/Down spinner in Tempest, using the down motion as Fire and up as Super Zap. It's not easy, and the dial has enough weight to it that it took a lot more effort to quickly spin back and forth.

Arkanoid, on the other hand, was a lot of fun with the Up/Down spinner, and it was neat to be able to  use the down motion to "launch" your ball.

Different spinners for different games -- I think it's great that we've now got a number of spinner and knob choices to pick from.

[shmokes]

I'm doing some measurements and I don't think my panel will accomodate a DOT spinner without chucking the trackball   .

I really really want this, but I spent about an hour last night in Visio moving things around, getting creative and all that, and I seem to be out of luck.  I don' thave 5 inches squared to devote to spinner real estate.