Strange problem when EMS Top gun is connected at boot

[metahacker]

with my new build i've noticed this strange 'issue' .. where sometimes i boot and the POST/BIOS portion of things (everything up until XP is loaded) is just slooooooooow.  if i hit DEL and go into set up, the menus draw as if im on a 2400 bps modem.  it's really weird.  then in windows, some stuff works great (project64) but then mame will stutter and the sound will be all choppy. 

i've isolated the problem down to booting with the EMS top gun connected ... if i remove it while im in the bios setup, the 2400bps modem stuff stops and things return to normal... when i boot xp, mame runs fine, etc. 

if i connect the ems top gun AFTER xp is loaded... everything works fine.  including the gun. 

i don't get it.... for one, i didnt even know a USB device could cause problems like this ... my limited experience coding linux drivers for the optimus mini-three did not really indicate such a thing should be happening let alone the fact i would think the bios would ignore anything that doesnt identify itself as a keyboard.....

the problem is just soo strange.

anyone else ever have this issue?  or any other ghost in the machine 'weirdness' with the top gun?

i think it can be safely avoided in my case by just making it a rule that the top gun is not connected until xp is loaded.... but still.. it's the age old "it hurts if i do X..."    "well, don't do X!" ... not really a solution.

[superbigjay]

I've got a similar behavior here with my HP computer running XP...

however, I haven't finished to setup my guns, so I don't really have more info.

But the bahavior is similar : real slow at boot.  If I unplug the gun, the boot resume at normal speed.

Jay

[FunWithFire]

In your BIOS, what is the boot order? Could something with the driver for the gun be confusing the pc into trying to boot with it? Maybe change the boot order so that it boots from the hd before the USB drive. I wrote 'boot' four times in three sentences.

[ChicagoDave]

I also have this problem.  Any solutions would be helpful....

Thanks in advance!

[metahacker]

not sure other than not keeping it plugged in when booting

it seems there is a new version of the EMS Top Gun

http://hkems.proboards49.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1193043892&page=1#1193196262

sounds like it has a 'camera function' to take a snap shot of "what the gun sees" to help you isolate IR emission problems.

i have to wonder if this means new firmware .... and if it fixes the issue ... and if it can be applied to older units.

I'm gonna make a thread about this issue on the HK EMS board

[metahacker]

Let's see if the "official" HKS EMS guys reply....

http://hkems.proboards49.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1193711956

[metahacker]

this camera function sure sounds interesting btw would help 'fine tune' light bar installs .....

i noticed that just varying the aiming of the bars (on the vertical axis, and mine are mounted top/bottom) slightly seemed to make huge differences in the useful range with the gun.  when i got things a little 'better tweaked' i could stand much closer and not lose the red dot.

[superbigjay]

I've got a similar behavior here with my HP computer running XP...
however, I haven't finished to setup my guns, so I don't really have more info.

Hello Metahacker, I just completed the installation of my 2 topguns using smog guncon2 drivers.
Still have the same behavior as you described.

PS: that new camera thing would have been useful for my.  There was a wall lamp next to the monitor that causes the gun to not see the upper leds on the bar.  when I turned that lamp off, everything was fine...

So I'm basically using the same solution as you : connect the guns after windows boot.

Jay 

PPS: I don't remember anything about being able to upload a new firmware in the gun... 

[metahacker]

The HKS EMS guys have posted a response.  Everyone who's having this same problem, please feel free to join the discussion and let them know what's going on:
http://hkems.proboards49.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1193711956

[SavannahLion]

It might help everybody if those who are experiencing problems would post the specifics of your hardware. Like what is the make and model of the motherboard in question? What other peripherals are attached via USB? Which USB ports are the devices connected to (2.0 or 1.1)?

It might make Information like this:

Slow Boot Up

The more USB devices installed the slower the boot up.   Windows XP slow boot up issues have been experienced here in our lab and reported by our readers.  Although, all systems are susceptible, VIA based motherboards appear to be more vulnerable. 

Installing Windows XP to a drive that is formatted FAT 32 has proven to be the best way to reduce boot up time.

The following information from Microsoft describes issues and solutions for achieving fast system start up and a tool to trace your boot up process.

The design goals for Windows XP on a typical consumer PC are:

• Boot to a useable state in a total of 30 seconds
• Resume from Hibernate (S4) in a total of 20 seconds
• Resume from Standby (S3) in a total of 5 seconds
• Fast System Startup for PCs Running Windows XP
Describes issues and solutions for achieving fast system start up on PC systems running Windows XP.[/li]
[li]BootVis.exe Tool  Microsoft performance trace visualization tool for use with Windows XP systems.
Note:  This version of BootVis.exe is compatible with the final release of Windows XP (build 2600) and resolves a compatibility issue when using third-party IDE drivers.
[/li]

easier to locate and/or more applicable

Not that I'm saying the above is an actual solution, the VIA reference grabbed my eye.

[ChicagoDave]

My configuration is as follows:

AMD Athlon 64 3500+
MSI K8N NEO2-F Motherboard (NVIDIA NForce 3 Ultra Chipset)
2GB Kingston Value RAM
320GB Maxtor 7200 RPM SATA HD
ASUS X800 Pro Video Card w/ TV Out

My USB devices are:
1 Happ 3" USB Trackball
1 Slik Stick Tornado Spinner
1 Belkin 7 Port USB Hub

[Herk]

Hey,

I have two of these guns and have not installed them yet because I am afraid of the process that may be required to get them working properly.

FunWithFire said,

In your BIOS, what is the boot order? Could something with the driver for the gun be confusing the pc into trying to boot with it? Maybe change the boot order so that it boots from the hd before the USB drive. I wrote 'boot' four times in three sentences.

I say you wrote "boot" four times in four sentences and "boots" once in one sentence.   

Herk

[ZeroPoint]

The slow boot problems seems to be an issue for every topgun some way or another. I have tested many different guns on different computers. The only solution is to keep it disconnected when booting.

Another more serious problem is that it slows down the computer/games. If I boot with the topgun attached and play f.ex. HOD3 the game is very slow. Look at this youtube movie and notice how slow the game is:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87C7VaKg-hs[/youtube]

The movie got a.o. this comment:
"You didn't have to get up and press the keyboard to skip the dialogue - just press the "B" button on the side of the gun. For some reason, your game seems slow. That's a nice projector, but the position of those radar stands kind of ruins it. Maybe you could try the longer stands that's sold separately for larger screens."

This guy have probably booted with the gun attached.

Except from this issue the Topgun is a excellent product.

Solution: Keep the gun unplugged when booting.