Dragon's Lair Blue-Ray Project

[gdumont]

Guys,

So I'm looking to build a Dragon's Lair arcade from scratch. I'm basically building a cabinet and throwing a PS3 in there so I can play the Blue-Ray version of Dragon's Lair. But here's the thing, I want to use real Dragon's Lair control panel with real controls, not something like the X-Arcade. Does anyone know of a good control interface for this? I just can't seem to find anything online that supports the PS3.

Also, what would you guys recommend for a monitor? I really couldn't do anything widescreen because the width of the cabinet needs to be the same (or close to) as the control panel. I'd rather have the image bigger.

I'd appreciate any feedback on this project. Thanks everyone!!!

Gregg

[HaRuMaN]

Do a PS3 controller hack.

[gdumont]

Any good sites that you could direct me to on this?

[superart]

can you do a ps2 hack and get this http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Pelican-PS2-to-PS3-Adapter-PL6338/sem/rpsm/oid/177515/catOid/-16762/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

If the adapter accepts regular controllers it will be even easier, since ps2 controller are a pain to hack.

[Green Giant]

I am kind of confused here.

From what I can tell this new version of DL is virtually the same as the old one in terms of gameplay.  The biggest updates to it are in the graphics and sound.  You are planning on taking a PS3 and placing it in a cab which will have 27" monitor at the biggest, unless you do a showcase.  The sound won't utilize the full 7.1 surround.

Why are you doing this basically?  The only review I could find on it said it couldn't be rated as a video game but more a mini movie.

[mrserv0n]

If your buying a ps3 just to dump in a cab why wouldnt you just buy a blu ray dvd rom for the PC and hook it up like a mame cab?

[gdumont]

"If your buying a ps3 just to dump in a cab why wouldnt you just buy a blu ray dvd rom for the PC and hook it up like a mame cab?"

Well the blue-ray version works like a dream. I've tried the PC versions and they never seemed to work that well. I did look into buying a blue-ray drive for my PC but they seemed to be very high in price.

I think Digital Leisure did release an HD version of Dragon's Lair that does play in a regular DVD drive for the PC. I should probably look into that before hacking a PS3 controller, shouldn't I?

Thanks everyone for the responses.

[ark_ader]

It all depends how much you like the game.  Also it depends if you are rich enough to place a perfectly good PS3 in a wooden box just to play Dragon's Lair.

How many times are you going to play this game in the cabinet?  Daily?

If it were me, I would just put the PS3 under the TV and pretend you are in the arcade.  Then when the feeling takes you to play Warhawk or Motorstorm you won't look like a dork playing it on a Dragon's Lair machine.

IMHO.

[gdumont]

You made me laugh too. I'm actually pretty hard core about it. I'd buy the original arcade if I wasn't so worried about it breaking down all the time. It's for my game room so I'm definitely looking to put it in a cabinet. I'm going to buy all the side art, marquee, control panel. But I think I'm definitely going to go with the PC version instead of the blue-ray. It just seems to make more sense all around.

So what monitor do you guys recommend?

[ark_ader]

Has to be a CRT and you can pick up one pretty cheaply now.

I'm not a purist but I like Bluth on CRT.  LCD doesn't cut it.

Make a nice everything cab and put a big TV into it.

Nothing better than having a big screen in a cab.  Have you seen the attempts to put a small screen in a big cab?    Ewwwww!

The slim line arcade cabs seen to be the popular choices today, or you can have a cool cocktail in the corner....

[mrserv0n]

If it were me, I would just put the PS3 under the TV and pretend you are in the arcade. 

ROFL, 123


I personally would go with an arcade monitor for it, I mean nothing compares. I have the Dvds for all the dragons lairs and they look so good on my 25" arcade monitor. 15hz baby Way it was meant to be

[ark_ader]

I second that! 

[knave]

I also question the logic of buying a PS3 just for DL...A few months ago my buddy and I picked up a great condition Dragons lair anniversary edition cab for $500.   Real cab, real Arcade monitor and real controls...It does run off of a PC hard drive though...No biggie, it also has Dragons lair 2 and space ace.

[gdumont]

Well I definitely didn't buy the PS3 for only Dragon's Lair. I just don't play it all that much. But I think I'll go with the PC version with the CRT monitor. Thanks again everyone!! I'll have to post some pictures when all is said and done.

[DaveMMR]

Am I the only person who thinks Dragon's Lair (and it's ilk) is only fun for five, maybe ten minutes?  I mean, it's visually appealing and it's a fun diversion every now and then but I can't see using a PS3 and building a cabinet specifically for that game.   

And it's going to be in Hi-Def, super, but it's still the same game.  Digital Leisure will never go broke re-releasing these games fifty times.  I appreciate their dedication to those arcade classics, but does it really need a Blu-Ray release?

Sorry for the rant, I know there's a lot of love for the game amongst many.  And I do find it enjoyable enough to stick it on my very selective game list.   But I would leave the PS3 in the living room, same a few hundred dollars and just use an older version (Daphne) instead (especially if using a regular CRT). 

EDIT: While I was typing this, you already changed your mind on using the PS3.  So disregard above.

[knave]

I totaly agree.  Dragons lair is really cool but I tire of it much more quickly than other classics.

[gdumont]

No I agree. There are hundreds of other arcade games that I could play for longer periods of time, but for me it's about having my game room and having Dragon's Lair in it. It's also worth mentioning that I also plan to play DL2 and Space Ace as well. But I will definitely do up the cab with Dragon's lair Art, marquee and control panel. I think it's more nostalgia then anything else.

OK, so let me ask a stupid question. Can someone send me a link to a "25in CRT arcade monitor"?

[genesim]

I don't understand the point of the last 2 replies.

You don't like the game..great.   Save it for another thread.    This guy was asking for help.  

XXXXXXXx

Gdumont,

On a side note.   Why are you against the Xarcade DIY board as an interface?   Could be the simplist way to do this whole thing.

I can tell you right now, as an interface for my PS2, I have had ZERO problems.   I am sure the PS3 adapter(which is the only one I know of) would work just as good.

Also the customer service is great.

Hacking a gamepad is a complete pain in the ass especially with the newer controls.    If you don't have huge soldering points like the Dreamcast or the first generation of PSX controllers, it is like circumsizing a gnat!

If you like the game that much and you want it dedicated, then I would get the best possible looking version, which is the PS3 Blue ray.    

I have argued this daily, but CRT's suck ass...especially if you are using something that is for much better resolution!    Why have a distorted, color bleeding, breaking down, tons of reflection..etc. when you can have a cheap LCD display that would offer you the higher resolution and none of those problems??  Full 1080P resolution baby through a complete digital source HDMI!!!!!

Analog loses quality.   Why go with that if you can have a digital format feeding through a digital cord to a digital display??

You want it the best, go with the future of displays.    That and the fact that if you build the control panel good enough, you can use it for all the new games of the future as well as the past!

From IGN:

The Video
No matter whether you last enjoyed Dragon's Lair in the arcades, on a home computer, or on DVD, know that the Blu-ray edition is a big leap forward when it comes to picture quality. The transfer reformats the experience to a 1:78:1 widescreen presentation to better play on today's 16x9 home theater displays, which also gets rid of the arcade version's "bubble vision."

Get a LCD widescreen and make it better then the arcade ever was!!

Some of the dinosaur responses where they push and push CRT displays as if it is even close to true that they are better for new games is obscene.

CRT has many problems and the low refresh rate couple with the many many problems I described above make it a poor choice for the future.   LCD displays can be as frickin' big as you want.   CRT's are limited and look horrible compared to a decent LCD display.   

[DaveMMR]

You don't like the game..great.   Save it for another thread.    This guy was asking for help.   

I have argued this daily, but CRT's suck ass...especially if you are using something that is for much better resolution!   

So you gave me crap about expressing an opinion about a game, which was quite relevant, thank you - but then you shoe-horn your opinion about CRTs.  Both for the same reason (to help underline a point) but... geesh... relax.  Don Bluth appreciates your support.

And I see your point about better displays, but we're talking about Dragon's Lair here.  It's completely overkill for a game that looked just fine in 1983.  That also applies to MAME.  If you're playing other PS3 games - then that's another story altogether...

[gdumont]

Thanks genesim

I'm actually going to use the x-arcade controller I have for a different part of the game room. It's just going to be a corner desk with a computer loaded with Emulators.

I'd use the X-Arcade for the Dragon's Lair, but I'm totally stuck on using the original control panel. which obviously won't work with an X-Arcade.

So genesim you suggest going with an LCD and the PS3? Can I even tilt an LDC for long periods of time?

Yeah this whole thing is rough because it's going to be a decent investment and I don't want to screw up.  

[gdumont]

Regarding the resolution for the game. I've been playing DL since 1984 and it's looks insane on blueray. It's worth checking out if anyone has Blue-Ray.

[genesim]

And I see your point about better displays, but we're talking about Dragon's Lair here.  It's completely overkill for a game that looked just fine in 1983.  That also applies to MAME.  If you're playing other PS3 games - then that's another story altogether...

Actually what you say isn't true.    You are aware that film prints have incredibly more resolution then a 400 line of resolution Laserdisc right?

Actually my response was in regard to the game being displayed correctly with no opinion on the actual content!!

It was remastered in 1080p with a widescreen ratio.    Or have you missed this??

Step out of 1983.   There have been lots of changes since then.    The original arcade was compromised because it was put on a frickin' Laser Disc when the original source was FILM!

So yes, there are major improvements to be had here.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx

gdumont,

You can use the x-arcade DIY interface.   NOT the Xarcade controller.   This is a totally different story.    I hate the controller layout, so don't use that.

Use the Brains of the operation by simply running the wires out to the microswitches in the original machine!!

http://www.x-arcade.com/byoarcade.shtml

It comes with a wiring harness that you run out to each microswitch.

Then run that out to the PS3 using the adapter.  You will need the PS2 adapter as well.

http://www.x-arcade.com/service/images/adapters/Adapters.shtml

http://www.x-arcade.com/playstation-3-adapter-x-arcade.shtml

This will all cost money, but if it means that much to you, then I say do it right!

And hell yes you can tilt an LCD display.   It doesn't hurt it at all.  

[genesim]

Here is a picture of my setup with the xarcade DIY board which I use for the PS2 and Dreamcast.    Look off to the far left.   As you can see, this is not an Xarcade controller!!   And yes, I know it looks sloppy...but it works and you are free to take your time on this.   Trust me, it is easier then you think.

[DaveMMR]

Actually my response was in regard to the game being displayed correctly with no opinion on the actual content!!

It was remastered in 1080p with a widescreen ratio.    Or have you missed this??

Step out of 1983.   There have been lots of changes since then.    The original arcade was compromised because it was put on a frickin' Laser Disc when the original source was FILM!

So yes, there are major improvements to be had here.

Alright that's cool.  When you're all done hooking up Dragon's Lair to your widescreen LCD 1080p displays with 7.1 surround sound, you tell me how long you actually sit there and play it for.  Because it's still just Dragon's Lair and we've all memorized those moves by now - no matter how much "better" it looks.  That was the point, have a great day.

[gdumont]

Thanks genesim for the detailed controller breakdown. It looks like I can use the PS3 with authentic arcade controllers. This is huge for me!!

It seems like this whole conversation got out of hand. Here's my take on things. I want a dedicated Dragon's Lair Arcade. These can run anywhere from 1500 to 3500 based on condition. Plus the game runs on a laser disk, which scares the crap out of me. I don't want to deal with the repairs all the time. So the alternative is to build my own. So now I'm faced with the decision to either use a PC or PS3. I just figured why not go with the better technology. I'm looking at 500 bucks for the PS3, 500 for a nice LCD monitor and probably 500 for a junk cabinet, parts, marquee and side art. So that's around 1500, which gets me a kick ass arcade cab, which can play all the Dragon's Lair games. Plus it's not going to break down. That's worth it to me.

[ark_ader]

I have the same setup, but I have a laserdisc player that plays the original Dragon's Lair, Dragon's Lair 2 and Space Ace.  I have the X Arcade hooked up to the dreamcast, PSX and the Game Cube as well as the PC.  X Gaming is making a PS3 adaptor.

I also had the problem of cable management under the cabinet like Gdumont. Also heat was a major issue until I got some PC fans to waft away the temps.  I used a 5 way switch box with the Xarcade, and it was a real sweet system.  Still you need to opt out of planning to put a PS3 in there.

Dragon's Lair looks mint now like it did back in 83 with Daphne.  No point sprucing up the image or the sound, as Dirk just grunts all the way through it.  Space Ace HD is a different story and the sound from that would be impressive, but just get a good sound system in the cab like 5.1 with a good woofer and you are in business.

Its like my crack about playing warhawk on the cab, it doesn't fit and the Xarcade will definitely not do the trick.  Just get a Xbox, soft mod it and put DaphneX on it and hook it to the X Arcade.  Its cheap and it works.

Just ignore the others regarding HI Def and that crap.  Its just a game, yep a favorite us 30 somethings love to play, but not enough to warrant an outlay for just one game.  I would like to see Robby Roto in Hi Def......Not!

Its up to you, at the end of the day.

[DaveMMR]

But the way I see it, if you want the best possible quality the PS3 is not only the cheapest way, but also much better then the arcade alternative as far as bang for your buck.

Have you priced a PS3 lately?  They're pretty durn expensive. 

But seriously, whatever.  At least some people understood my point.  I happen to like Dragon's Lair as a arcade icon and technological leap in interactive art, but not as a game.  (An Aside: DL possesses the same "game play" that sullied half of the Sega CD lineup lest you need to be reminded why Sega had to eventually abandon the hardware business).  I think it's cool they're updating it and I have no doubt it'll look and sound amazing.  I just think it's overkill for a dedicated cab.

I want a dedicated Dragon's Lair Arcade. These can run anywhere from 1500 to 3500 based on condition. Plus the game runs on a laser disk, which scares the crap out of me. I don't want to deal with the repairs all the time. So the alternative is to build my own. So now I'm faced with the decision to either use a PC or PS3. I just figured why not go with the better technology. I'm looking at 500 bucks for the PS3, 500 for a nice LCD monitor and probably 500 for a junk cabinet, parts, marquee and side art. So that's around 1500, which gets me a kick ass arcade cab, which can play all the Dragon's Lair games. Plus it's not going to break down. That's worth it to me.

Just for the record, you can probably find an original Dragon's Lair for cheaper than what you quoted.  And the LaserDisc player, while not designed for the constant "accessing" and continuous demands of an arcade setting, will not find the same abuse in a home setting.  At the end of the day, it's your choice.  But some of us were trying to save you a couple of hundred bucks.   Keep us updated on your project.

But before you invest, I have one last recommendation and then I'm done.  Spend one week playing another version of Dragon's Lair, Space Ace, etc. (rent it, buy the PC version used, etc.)  Play it faithfully every day at least 10 minutes.  If at the end of the week, you still want that dedicated cab - then go for it and spare no expense. 

[markrvp]

I have a PS3 and I just ordered the Blu-Ray Dragon's Lair game from Amazon.com for $29.99 (free shipping).  I think if you already have a PS3 and you were a fan of the original Dragon's Lair game, then it's a worthy purchase.

Regardless of how you feel on this issue, here is a good read on the Blu-Ray version of the game:

http://www.hardcoreware.net/dragons-lair-blu-ray-java-review/

[genesim]

I like the way people can bring their opinions to this forum and get excited about something that is probably out of reach for most of us in here.

Man oh man through all that all I got to say is WHOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!

If a dedicated arcade is out of reach, then what are you doing here.    I think you underestimate either the intelligence or the wallet of the posters.

1500 or actually quite less(50,000 tv ---my bottom---...try 200 LCD!) is a drop in the bucket compared to what many of us have spent...and are still spending on the arcade projects.

Seriously though, I am not getting personal.   I made the point, and there is really no debate.

If you are big enough fan of the game, then the PS3 is the way to go.   Nothing "Blueray fanboy" about it.

I am a fan of quality, and I understand about wanting the best version possible, which at this point the BLUERAY version is.    I feel the same way about having a HD version of Street Fighter II which is coming out soon.

The fact that a company takes the time to update a classic, I truly love the concept.     Though in the end, I will judge for myself, and if changes are made that hurt the original then I am not afraid to say so.

The new Dragon's Lair that I have read about, is not the case though.   For the first time in history they have gone back and worked meticulously to actual improve on even the Arcade version.    I am glad this has been preserved.

Laserdisc resolution SUCKS.    I can't even come up with a valid comparison because even the jump from VHS to DVD isn't the same.    Most of us at least know what that is like!  Is that not reason enough, if you are a fan of the game??

Hell all this debate makes me want to get a copy myself.   I liked the game, and my wife who played it in the arcade also understands its value.    Like a good movie...worth firing up every couple of years, and for me having it in my collection is no different then having Pong.    Its worth it for the few hours of entertainment.   Thank god the MAME team doesn't play favorites to what they emulate.    If that were true no MVS fighting game would ever get emulated.

[knave]

In case you are tired of arguing...here's a review of the DL cab my buddy and I bought for $500.  It's the 20th anaversary cab that was released in 2003.

http://my.stratos.net/~hewston95/RTM09/RTM09.html#Dragon's_Lair

[Hoopz]

Sounds like a cool project and I am curious to see how it turns out.  Please make sure that you post a thread in project announcements with pics.

[saint]

...

[Xiaou2]

wow, I gota say that is Depressing.

 They actually cropped 2 inches worth of artwork on the Blueray version!
 
 Thats just lame.   


 


 

[genesim]

MAN talk about me eating a whole frickin sack of humble pie!

The IGN review along with others talked about the original aspect ratio being finally represented.  I am firing off a bunch of hate mail.

I stand corrected!   My sincere apologies for misleading anyone in this matter.

Though I gotta say the picture on the right looks better(though overly color tweaking also seems a little sloppy), but cropping to fake widescreen is at the the very least OBSCENE!   I share your anger.

Again, it looks like I was wrong if this is indeed the screen shots of each.   More detail on what picture one is would be appreciated.

[Xiaou2]

left = DVD   Right = Bluray

 They chose to crop so as to take up the full 1080p res.  Instead of
leaving the true 4:3 aspect ratio.   IDIOTS!

 Anyone who is a fan should shoot off the Hate mail to them now.
To destroy such artwork is truly a crime. 

 And as for the color - it looks to me like they went way too far
with it.. and over-saturated it.   Not too easy to see on this shot,
but on others,  Dirks costume is like frickin blinding.   Its a mess.

 >.<

 

[genesim]

It looks like the Dragon's Lair HD for PC is the way to go,  but are we absolutely sure that the Blueray is devoid of the full screen version??   Especially since the former has both??

[ahofle]

Wow that is really disappointing.  Does anyone have a comparison pic of the HD version released previously?

[gdumont]

Good thing you guys discovered that the blue-ray version cuts the picture. I almost just bought a TV with HDMI inputs to use with the PS3. I guess I'm back to the HD version on the PC then. Man, there's so much to think about when doing a project like this. But that's part of the fun.

I'll make sure to post some pictures of the project. Although it's not as interesting now that it's not blue-ray.

[ahofle]

Why would not having blu-ray make it any less interesting? 

[ChadTower]

What I'm not seeing here is why HD or blu-ray would make any difference to 25 year old content.  Have they remastered the original cells for these new versions?