Author Topic: Which purchase is smarter! Lets duke it out! (Read 3622 times)

chuggy · « **on:** May 02, 2003, 02:13:49 pm »

First of all i am poor! LOL. I recently bought a Dr. Mario machine, 29.99 wasnt working, but it is now. I have a crappy pI 133 mhz cpu, all i want to run is NES games. I've bought a keyboard encoder(keywiz max). Heres the thing. I have enough money to buy either a 19" monitor to hook to my crappy computer. Or enough to get a computer that would be capable of handling MAME so i can hook that up to the arcade monitor. Which should i do? PLEASE HELP ME!

BobA · « **Reply #1 on:** May 02, 2003, 02:19:15 pm »

No contest. Buy a computer to use with your existing arcade monitor and run MAME and whatever other emulators you want. More computer power will always help.

Just my opinion.

BobA

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #2 on:** May 02, 2003, 02:20:49 pm »

Quote from: chuggy on May 02, 2003, 02:13:49 pm

First of all i am poor! LOL. I recently bought a Dr. Mario machine, 29.99 wasnt working, but it is now. I have a ---smurfy--- pI 133 mhz cpu, all i want to run is NES games. I've bought a keyboard encoder(keywiz max). Heres the thing. I have enough money to buy either a 19" monitor to hook to my ---smurfy--- computer. Or enough to get a computer that would be capable of handling MAME so i can hook that up to the arcade monitor. Which should i do? PLEASE HELP ME!

Ok, I assume the working Dr. Mario has a monitor in it now, right. Why don't you get a faster machine and an arcade video card that will hook into the monitor. Or am I missing something.

FWIW, I have a 17" PC monitor and a Pentium 200 MMX. The 17" is fine, but the P200 needs to be upgraded ASAP. If that helps you any.

chuggy · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2003, 02:22:25 pm »

Im reassured now! I sorta realized that was a dumb question after i posted. LOL.

Superdude · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2003, 02:23:49 pm »

I disagree. If you are poor then you wont be able to afford:
1) Arcade Card - 100 bucks
2) JPAC - 60 bucks
3) New computer that supports AGP - 200 bucks
Thats 360 right there
A new 19inch should go for under 150 bucks.

Do the math.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2003, 02:52:39 pm »

Quote from: Superdude on May 02, 2003, 02:23:49 pm

I disagree. If you are poor then you wont be able to afford:
1) Arcade Card - 100 bucks
2) JPAC - 60 bucks
3) New computer that supports AGP - 200 bucks
Thats 360 right there
A new 19inch should go for under 150 bucks.

Do the math.

Ok, but you spend $150 for your new 19-inch and you can only play Pac-Man with the keyboard with it.,

Also -
Arcade VGA from ultimarc - $89, plus shipping
Motherboard combo and Duron 1.0 GHZ and Memory - $100 (and will support AGP)
Keyboard or gamepad hack - $10

$200 will get you a working arcade cabinet

shmokes · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2003, 03:41:06 pm »

PC, no question. Forget that 19" PC monitor.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2003, 03:52:25 pm »

Computer.

First, if you don't know how to get a good computer deal, make that your next question. Let us know how much money you have and we can tell you where to spend it!

JoyMonkey · « **Reply #8 on:** May 02, 2003, 03:56:32 pm »

I'd just buy a cheap PC on eBay. Most P3 Dell GX1's have an onboard ATI Rage graphics card, so they're easy(er) to set up with an arcade monitor, and many have onboard Ensonique sound that also works well with AdvanceMame.

Spend about $120 on a 500Mhz one and it'll run about 95% of Mame's games at a good speed. Their HD's have enough space for a full set of Mame roms too (not including CHDs).

Plus, the old 'clicky' Dell keyboards (model AT101W) that usually come with them are simple to hack. Though you've already got a KeyWiz, so I guess you're not worried about that.

chuggy · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2003, 04:32:01 pm »

Wow! Well here's the skinny. I have a video card allready, given to me by a friend. It supports AGP. Im willing to spend about a hundred dollars on a comp. The same friend can get me a free CD drive (if i need it) so really all i need is a motherboard, processor, and a little bit of storage space right?also, the control panel i have (nes vs controll) only has 2 buttons so i'll only be playing NES, and atari games anyway. Right now im totally leaning toward the computer.

AX · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2003, 05:38:35 pm »

100 bucks isnt gonna get you far. get a job LOL.

Brax · « **Reply #11 on:** May 02, 2003, 05:50:38 pm »

Quote from: chuggy on May 02, 2003, 04:32:01 pm

Wow! Well here's the skinny. I have a video card allready, given to me by a friend. It supports AGP. Im willing to spend about a hundred dollars on a comp. The same friend can get me a free CD drive (if i need it) so really all i need is a motherboard, processor, and a little bit of storage space right?also, the control panel i have (nes vs controll) only has 2 buttons so i'll only be playing NES, and atari games anyway. Right now im totally leaning toward the computer.

If you're running an arcade monitor that video card is no good. You need the ArcadeVGA from www.ultimarc.com As has already been stated, you need the ArcadeVGA, a J-PAC AND the new computer.
But its STILL the better option.

chuggy · « **Reply #12 on:** May 02, 2003, 07:08:07 pm »

OK,

what about this:

http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade_pc2arcade.html

I might be stupid, but it seems really easy to make a arcade hook up to your PC. as long as your running MAME. Am i wrong?

Cue-Ball · « **Reply #13 on:** May 02, 2003, 07:15:42 pm »

I vote computer also. But $100 isn't going to cut it. Even though you don't need a whole computer, you still need the basics. Get yourself a motherboard with on-board video and sound and a 1Ghz+ proc and you're halfway there. Get 256MB of RAM (that's about all you can afford, it seems), a hard drive, and don't forget about a power supply. Screw everything down to the inside of the cabinet and you're good to go. You don't need a case, floppy, CD drive, etc. so that saves you some money right there (not to mention space and complexity).

rampy · « **Reply #14 on:** May 02, 2003, 09:03:07 pm »

Just a thought I'd like to share:

People were and will continue to interface PC's with arcade monitors without the benefit of the ARCADEVGA card before it's advent..

It's a great tool, and IMHO it is THE way to go... but it's not the only way... There are plenty of cards that will work well with ArcMon TSR's and Advancemame or ArcadeOS etc etc...

(uh-oh --- i'm begining to sound like the keyboard hack proponents)

What I'm trying to say is that it's probably best to go with ArcadeVGA card but if you have or can get access to a card that works well in arcade monitor resolutions (albiet with some config heacaches) *shrug*

It's worth it to save the aggrevation/etc to get the arcadeVGA card but if you can get a voodoo3 banshee (or other old skool arcmon friendly card) for like 10 bucks --- why not?

Hey Chuggy... did you ever ascertain if you had an original nintendo monitor or some other 'generic" CGA monitor?

(and if nintendo did it have the switch to make it compatible with regular arcade boards (i.e. non nintendo)) there's a great thread in monitor forum where they talk about some of the issues with nintendo monitors and workarounds n' stuff...

*shrug*

Rampy

Lilwolf · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2003, 09:29:59 pm »

I would DEFINATELY vote for an arcadeVGA card before a new monitor! Even if you had the monitor already.

Motherboard/processor is more important for playing games... But 100 bucks might not be enought..

so I would recommend...

arcadeVGA with current system...(does it have pci slots?)
then wait until you can get a system upgrade later

SirPeale · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02, 2003, 10:02:12 pm »

I think we're missing the point here. He states in his OP that all he wants to play are NES games. So, he doesn't need all that pony power.

aj6500 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 02, 2003, 11:27:21 pm »

How good of a computer is needed for different levels of gaming? If I want to run mame how new of a game can be run on about what speed processor? What about other systems, like xbox, ps2 emulators?

How big of a HD is needed?

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #18 on:** May 02, 2003, 11:58:31 pm »

This is turning into an interesting thread. I am out of my element on arcade monitors, but . . .

First, I don't think you need a J-PAC unless you want to run the original arcade boards, which you wouldn't to use MAME.

I think you can get by without the ArcadeVGA card, but it would make things much simpler.

Just b/c your panel has only two buttons, you could add more buttons for the cost of a 1x6x3' ($5) and $1 each for buttons and wire them up to the KeyWiz, so you're not really limited to NES games.

Also, it should be obvious, but see http://www.oscarcontrols.com/monitors.shtml There is a big difference between a PC monitor image and an arcade monitor image. If the PC is the look you want, maybe you need to go that route first, as you'll never get the same crisp images out of an arcade screen. If you want the realism of an arcade screen, you will want the NES screen you already have and won't be happy with any PC monitor, so don't bother with that.

I guess I need some more info . . .

Does the P133 have a basic monitor hooked up to it now? What about a hard drive? Do you want to keep any of the P133 as a basic system or can it all be scavenged for the arcade cab?

Assuming yes, yes, and can be scavenged, I would recommend the following:

Get either an old version of MAME (pre R36B12) or Vantage (?) and load it on the P133 and play some games and see how it performs on the games you want to play. This should help determine which way to upgrade.

Assuming it is too slow, look into and invest in the following -

Find out what kind of video card works best with arcade monitors, seems like I heard Trident Blade 3D, or ATI RAGE 128, but search the monitor/video section of this forum and you should get an idea. These cards should be under $20 dollars from E-bay or www.newegg.com, www.pricewatch.com, etc. DO NOT get on-board video, as it will be hard to interface with an arcade monitor.

Get a Duron 800-1.0 GHz processor for around $40 dollars, or a XP1500 (better) for around $50.00

Get a CPU fan for it.

Get a basic mobo (KT133A or so) vintage, for around $40 from either E-bay or www.pricewatch.com.

You should be able to get a board that supports either DDR or SDRAM in this price range, but SDRAM is as expensive as DDR now and DDR is faster so . . .

You should be able to find 256M of PC2100 (PC1600 would work) DDR for around $25. 128M would be sufficient and be a little less.

I realize I took you to around $130, but you should be able to play about 50 % of all MAME games with this set-up (more than that if you add a trackball, or trigger sticks, or spinner, or . . . you get the idea, down the line . . .)

Good luck and post back if you have more questions.

kspiff · « **Reply #19 on:** May 03, 2003, 04:01:17 am »

Well.. OK.. pardon me if I'm overlooking something here.. but this is a Dr. Mario cab.. you want to play only NES games.. just go buy some more PlayChoice cards off eBay or arcade vendors!

Besides, you guys seem to be forgetting that Playchoice machines use inverted video signals.. and while I've seen a board to allow PC10 boards to run on standard monitors, I've never seen one that lets a standard res app run on the Sanyos..

Sorry to have to let you down hard.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2003, 08:17:33 am »

Quote from: kspiff on May 03, 2003, 04:01:17 am

Well.. OK.. pardon me if I'm overlooking something here.. but this is a Dr. Mario cab.. you want to play only NES games.. just go buy some more PlayChoice cards off eBay or arcade vendors!

Besides, you guys seem to be forgetting that Playchoice machines use inverted video signals.. and while I've seen a board to allow PC10 boards to run on standard monitors, I've never seen one that lets a standard res app run on the Sanyos..

Sorry to have to let you down hard.

I said I was out of my element here, but if it's inverted video, couldn't he just swap some of the wires when he connects the monitor to his arcade card, or is it more involved???

chuggy · « **Reply #21 on:** May 03, 2003, 12:43:41 pm »

Now like i said i dont know much about this. But why cant i do the PC to monitor cable outlined on this site. i posted the link in an earlier reply. I have a friend that just solved most of the problem. He hooked me up with motherboard, processor 1.2 gig, heat sync, fan and hard drive for 120 bucks. Now the problem is i do not want to buy that 90 dollar card. I think that tiger is right as far as not needing the card, i'll find out what kind of video card i have to see if it will work or not. By the way, you guys kick ASS! at some point i hope i can help someone this much. The problem shifts now from what to buy to how to wire the monitor to my video card.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #22 on:** May 03, 2003, 05:18:01 pm »

Dude. Just list your Nintendo Monitor, Dr. Mario PCB, Nintendo power supply, and wiring on ebay (separately). I promise you they will bring enough money to get you a 19" monitor.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #23 on:** May 03, 2003, 05:18:55 pm »

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on May 03, 2003, 08:17:33 am

Quote from: kspiff on May 03, 2003, 04:01:17 am
Well.. OK.. pardon me if I'm overlooking something here.. but this is a Dr. Mario cab.. you want to play only NES games.. just go buy some more PlayChoice cards off eBay or arcade vendors!

Besides, you guys seem to be forgetting that Playchoice machines use inverted video signals.. and while I've seen a board to allow PC10 boards to run on standard monitors, I've never seen one that lets a standard res app run on the Sanyos..

Sorry to have to let you down hard.
I said I was out of my element here, but if it's inverted video, couldn't he just swap some of the wires when he connects the monitor to his arcade card, or is it more involved???

You have to build a bit of an inversion PCB. Not that difficult, but it isn't easy either.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #24 on:** May 03, 2003, 05:20:01 pm »

Quote from: aj6500 on May 02, 2003, 11:27:21 pm

What about other systems, like xbox, ps2 emulators?

How big of a HD is needed?

Was that a joke?

aj6500 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 04, 2003, 03:09:34 am »

I have an old Cray supercomputer in the basement, I use it to fold laundry on. I figure the graphics may not be up to par, but I could use the floorspace downstairs.

Seriously tho' is there a dreamcast emulator? I think I'd like to build a single station house of the dead/ soul caliber/ ready to rumble cab without changing discs or running 3 DC's w/a switcher. 1st things 1st however, I'm considering doing a semi-mame for my Gorf cab if I can't get it up and running. I think a cheapie pentium with only that ROM should work ok. I should be able to get the lights and everything working without actually removing or damaging anything in the cab.

kspiff · « **Reply #26 on:** May 04, 2003, 05:13:53 am »

Nah, there is no DC emulators yet that run commercial games.. there is one, but it's probably not going to run those games (if there has even been a release yet.. I have a DC

).

Besides, for the computer to run those games on an emu it would be cheaper to buy 3 DCs

House of the Dead 2 on an emulator? Sorry, but that would suck anyways! :/

anthony691 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 04, 2003, 09:09:59 am »

Well, you know a DC can do a lot of emulation itself?

You have got:

NesterDC (NES emu, full speed w/ sound)
DreamSNES (SNES emu, fullo speed w/ sound)
GensDC (Genesis, okay dosn't work too good, but other genesis emus work fine)

My personal favorite,
BleemCast (Someone recently hacked this commercial playstation emulator on the Dreamcast, now it can play most ANY game Full Speed w/ sound, some games don't work well, and videos don't work perfect)

There is a ton else emulated, that I don't really mess with, includeing:

Atari 2600
Wonderswan Color
Neo Geo
Neo Geo Pocket Color
Gameboy color
MAME (BAD)
Space Invaders
Sega SG 1000

And tons MORE!

(Just thaught it was worth mentioning.

chuggy · « **Reply #28 on:** May 04, 2003, 02:46:53 pm »

Inversion PCB? What is this, and is there anywhere that shows how to make one?

BobA · « **Reply #29 on:** May 04, 2003, 03:18:46 pm »

Here is a link to an inversion circuit. One circuit is required for each color apparently. Don't know if it works I just looked for a link. This is board to monitor, monitor to board should be the same as it is just an op amp inverter.

http://coinop.org/kb_dl.aspx/KB/MonitorTech/Nintendo-color-invert.txt

BobA


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