Soliciting Feedback On token Voting Process.

[Santoro]

I have been giving a little thought to how to set up the polls.   It is more complicated than usual this year because two submitters (RandyT and MrCurmudgen) have requested that their fronts and backs get voted on together.  I would like to accommodate this in a way that is fair to all the entries. 

The best method I have been able to come up with so far is to first vote on whether we want a subsequent vote on a)Individual sides, or b)front/back combos.  We could then vote on the individual entries in the winning category.

Any other ideas?  Lets be sure not to presuppose any winners or losers based on thread comments, I'd like actual voting to be the sole method of choosing.

[leapinlew]

I can understand why they want their fronts/backs together - but I would have 2 polls. 1 poll for the front, and the other poll for the back. See what happens. I'm thinking people will settle on 1 design or the other.

You could make it a poll that lists their coin 3 times(allow up to 2 selections). One with the front, one with the back, and one with the front and back. SURELY, no one will be confused by this. I'm looking at you Chad... aka hanging Chad.

[Timoe]

I want 2006 tokens - thats my feedback   


other than that it just takes too long.  Can we skip 2007 and bust out 2008 in like November?  Or am I missing the point?  Is it supposed to come out at the end of the year as a reflection of that year in retrogaming? 

[Santoro]

No, we simply have a couple of key players - myself and Pixelhugger mostly - who have really busy day jobs and lives.   We do the best we can.

[Timoe]

no, I understand.  I was sorta just joking around.   I appreciate what you guys do.

I buy, I buy 

[leapinlew]

no, I understand.  I was sorta just joking around.   I appreciate what you guys do.

I buy, I buy 

Geez Timoe...

The stuff they do is hard. It's not easy like making mini arcade sticks. 

[Kremmit]

I'm assuming the artists want their designs voted on as a complete package because they don't want to end up sharing a coin with another artist's design; i.e. MrC doesn't want his frontside mixing with Sez' backside.

Do we have anybody that submitted a back only, no front?  If not, why not just vote for the best front, with the understanding that a vote for RandyT or MrC is also a vote for their matching back.  The same deal could obviously be extended to any other artists that want it.

[Senator]

I am outsider looking in but I'll offer my opinion.

If someone goes to the effort of designing a front and back that should take precedence.  In fact, a "design" should include a front and a back.  I'm sure that the mint doesn't go looking for front design and then ask "what should we put on the back."  I understand completely the request to have both voted on together.  

If someone puts together an exceptional one side, that should be the exception, not the rule.  For instance, "I really like Randy's design but think Bill's back would go better".  That would have to be a separate lobby, Randy should not have to lobby to keep his two sides together.

To draw an analology, I run a cycling club and we ran a jersey design competition.  One guy wouldn't allow us to break up his design.  If we didn't like both sides(and the arms), he's taking it elsewhere.

Perhaps there are aspects of this project that I dont understand but that is my initial reaction.

PS Santoro, I hear you re the day job as it relates to my cycling club...do you people understand that he has a job that pays him money...this is what he does for fun.  He's good at it, isn't he.  We all really appreciate all the hard work he puts into it don't we?  If the tokens are late its OK because I really want to have tokens and I dont have the time for it so its really great that Santoro does it, isnt it

[Santoro]

no, I understand.  I was sorta just joking around.   I appreciate what you guys do.

No worries, it takes a lot more than this to bum me out.

[missioncontrol]

not really sure the best way to handle this... I'd like to see both sides voted on separately, but I realize the one's who devoted time into making a matched front and back would like to see their art stay the way they intended it.

I think I'm agreement with Lew's idea....

I can understand why they want their fronts/backs together - but I would have 2 polls. 1 poll for the front, and the other poll for the back. See what happens. I'm thinking people will settle on 1 design or the other.

You could make it a poll that lists their coin 3 times(allow up to 2 selections). One with the front, one with the back, and one with the front and back. SURELY, no one will be confused by this. I'm looking at you Chad... aka hanging Chad.

[shardian]

I think it should be separate votes for front and back, regardless. If people like both sides and appreciate the coordination of it, well then you will get both sides picked. Stop overcomplicating and get on with the voting.

And to the designers who busted their rumps, remember this: One side is better than no sides.

[bfauska]

The threads are slightly scattered so I can't quickly assess how many of each we have, but it looks to me like maybe 4 or 5 of each, fronts and backs.  If we consider that Randy and Mr. C don't want to get theirs mixed with other folks then that leaves about 3 other fronts and backs.  If those numbers are correct then there's only 29 possible tokens, it sounds like a lot, but it would allow people to vote based on both sides.  I think it would mean we could allow people to insist on keeping their art together, and keep from getting a mis-matched token.  Say for example I really like front A, but it doesn't go well with Back C, the system of voting on a complete token keeps me from accidentally supporting the A/C combination which would clearly be an atrocity.  (I don't even know what the hell A/C would be but I'm sure it's BAD)

It may help figure the poll system out if we had a complete list of participants and their desires to work from.  Also, I don't know if the polls have a maximum option setting, but if not I think we should just vote for each possible combination.

[dstone]

I just wanted to chime in and say that I would like to see a vote based on sides, not as a complete design. Failing that, a vote with all possible combinations would be good, then the top 5 or so of those combinations could be voted on again to get the choice combination. I'd also like to add that I am flexible with my designs, no need to keep those grouped together.

[missioncontrol]

It may help figure the poll system out if we had a complete list of participants and their desires to work from.  Also, I don't know if the polls have a maximum option setting, but if not I think we should just vote for each possible combination.

Best I can tell, here are the entries.... If I left someone out, my apologies... let me know and I'll add you to the list...I left out the artist's name, and this list is in no particular order...

Edit: please note that some of these have been resized so the details might be harder to see...


Here's all the blinged images:






























non-blinged entry's:

[mr.Curmudgeon]

For the record, even though I submitted a design for both sides together, as a "theme"...it's not out of a desire to keep my designs from being matched up with anyone else's.

I'm not anal enough to *insist* that they *have* to go together. My suggestion was to have them *listed* together, or near each other, so when people vote, they KNOW that there is a matching design for the other side, so they can vote accordingly.

That said, I can't imagine that anyone would pick a period-piece (early 1900's) design for the front and a modern design for the back, let's say. But anything can happen and I'm capable of leaving fate in the hands of the voters. Of course I'd be disappointed to see the theme broken, but again, it's not my intention to rule that out either. There are a lot of good designs this year (as there have been with past years!)

Honestly, I kinda' thought that a themed design worked against me in a "all or nothing" fashion...so it's not like I assumed it was going to do me any favors.   

[shardian]

For the record, even though I submitted a design for both sides together, as a "theme"...it's not out of a desire to keep my designs from being matched up with anyone else's.

I'm not anal enough to *insist* that they *have* to go together. My suggestion was to have them *listed* together, or near each other, so when people vote, they KNOW that there is a matching design for the other side, so they can vote accordingly.

That said, I can't imagine that anyone would pick a period-piece (early 1900's) design for the front and a modern design for the back, let's say. But anything can happen and I'm capable of leaving fate in the hands of the voters. Of course I'd be disappointed to see the theme broken, but again, it's not my intention to rule that out either. There are a lot of good designs this year (as there have been with past years!)

Honestly, I kinda' thought that a themed design worked against me in a "all or nothing" fashion...so it's not like I assumed it was going to do me any favors.   

I think you have a pretty fair chance of getting both sides, so I wouldn't worry too much.

[RandyT]

FWIW, I think Santoro was in error about what I was saying.  I don't care if 1, 2 or 0 of my designs get used.  The sides should be judged based on the merits of the designs.

I was simply saying that the front and back judging process would be easier to follow if it were in the same thread.  A coin has two sides.  Front and back are arbitrary assignments, so just pick two designs that folks like best and slap one on each side 

RandyT

[Havok]

I say just let the votes go where they will. If someone likes a certain design, they will most likely pick the two that match best anyways.

On a side note: I think before we put this to a vote, ALL entries should be "blinged" otherwise there is an unfair comparison. I would especially like to see the maze and tron designs blinged...

[missioncontrol]

They were supposed to submit them to pixel to be blinged... there was a deadline and everything, if we extend the deadline we are prolonging the tokens...

I say we are ready to vote

[ChadTower]

Just effin vote already.  It's been months.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

On a side note: I think before we put this to a vote, ALL entries should be "blinged" otherwise there is an unfair comparison.

As has already been mentioned, the deadline has passed. Three times. 

[Santoro]

Just effin vote already.  It's been months.

Chad, you volunteering to put together the poll for me?   That's awful nice.  

Please PM when it's done.

[RandyT]

Here's the ones I blinged a long time ago, but took them down so everything stayed fair.



Not as nice as the job PH does, but it gets the idea across.

RandyT

[ChadTower]

Chad, you volunteering to put together the poll for me?   That's awful nice. 

Please PM when it's done.

I would, but Chad Sucks would win in a landslide.  It wouldn't resolve the actual issue.

[bfauska]

I don't know if the polls have a maximum option setting, but if not I think we should just vote for each possible combination.

...it's not out of a desire to keep my designs from being matched up with anyone else's.

I don't care if 1, 2 or 0 of my designs get used.

OK, scratch my idea, way more work than necessary if the designers don't mind the possibility of there designs being split.

I think we should just vote for our favorite front and vote for our favorite back, and then if the results seem really close, or don't seem to work well together, we could further complicate the process then, but not until we see that it is required.

[Santoro]

Yup, agree. I'll do it after work tonight.  We'll vote for no more than a week so that we can get these puppies minted.   

Thanks all.  I am always a bit too diplomatic, but I'd rather error in that direction than making some feel they weren't given a fair shot.

[FrizzleFried]

I like some of the designs that say "To Preserve & Destroy".  While I assume  you mean to build arcade cabinets and destroy enemies in the game,  it sounds like you are possibly advocating destroying existing arcade cabinets.   There HAS to be a better slogan...

"To Preserve & Play" or "For Preservation & Fun" or something.

[leapinlew]

I like some of the designs that say "To Preserve & Destroy".  While I assume  you mean to build arcade cabinets and destroy enemies in the game,  it sounds like you are possibly advocating destroying existing arcade cabinets.   There HAS to be a better slogan...

"To Preserve & Play" or "For Preservation & Fun" or something.

How about "To have move than 5 cabinets, even though I promised the wife I would only have 5" ?

[Kremmit]

Food for thought:  Should we still vote for fronts before we vote for backs? 

Say, for example, design "A" is the most popular front, and design "C" is the most popular back.  If both polls run concurrently, you're getting a token with "A" and "C" on it.   But what if "A" and "C" go really, really crappy together due to radically mismatched styles?

If we decide the front first, then when the poll for the backside rolls around they can say "I like "C" best, but "B" was my second choice and would go better with the "A" design that's going to be on the front."  Result:  more satisfactory overall token design.

It would make the voting process run longer, though, which is annoying.   


------

I like some of the designs that say "To Preserve & Destroy".  While I assume  you mean to build arcade cabinets and destroy enemies in the game,  it sounds like you are possibly advocating destroying existing arcade cabinets.   There HAS to be a better slogan...

"To Preserve & Play" or "For Preservation & Fun" or something.

In past years, we've voted on slogans separately, after we've got the designs picked out.  The current slogans are just placeholders.  I dunno if that's the plan for this year or not...?

[missioncontrol]

Yup, agree. I'll do it after work tonight.  We'll vote for no more than a week so that we can get these puppies minted.   

Thanks all.  I am always a bit too diplomatic, but I'd rather error in that direction than making some feel they weren't given a fair shot.

Are the polls up yet?





























how about now?






































now? :yikes

[mr.Curmudgeon]

How about now? 

Yup, agree. I'll do it after work tonight. 

Ok...now?




Are you home from work yet?   

[patrickl]

Lol, are you guys pushing Santoro? 

[Santoro]

Nah, I deserve it.  It takes a while to do and life just keeps gettting busier.  I need to learn to say "I'll do the polls in two months." and everyone will be happy when it's done in a week.

Yeah, that's it. 

The polls will be done by Christmas. 

[Kremmit]

Lol, are you guys pushing Santoro? 

No way, that chair is heavy.  Somebody get that guy one of those Rascal scooters.

[Joystick Jerk]

Voting on how another vote should be run?!?

It's like some horrible Dilbert cartoon come to life.

[Santoro]

Voting on how another vote should be run?!?

It's like some horrible Dilbert cartoon come to life.

This is a community project so it's appropriate.  You'll find no such voting on my purely commercial tokens.

Let's have a vote on whether we should vote on voting.  Look for the poll by Christmas.

[Joystick Jerk]

I can't vote on that.

[Havok]

Filibuster!

 

[JustMichael]

Didn't we have a vote on the best front design and the best back design for the other tokens?

[GadgetGeek]

As the purveyor of shiny goodness, Santoro makes the final decision.  The poll is merely to help sway that decision.  That said, I say fronts and backs separately and use those results as guidance to determine which combination will generate (at a minimum) break-even sales.

(how is that for saying something without saying something).

Just let me know when I can pre-order.