Making your own dust washer out of plexiglass?

[javeryh]

Does anyone have any tips on how to do this?  I'm thinking of replacing the cheap black plastic dust washer that goes around the shaft of the joystick with one made out of plexiglass.  I want to paint the bottom of the plexiglass pink and then attach a thin layer of felt or something so it won't scratch the surface.  I know a few people have done this... any tips?  I'm especially curious as to:

1.  How to cut out a perfect circle (roughly 2.5" in diameter);
2.  How to polish the edge of the plexiglass once cut;
3.  What type of paint to use (I assume any type is fine)

Thanks!

[steveh]

i have never done it before, but i would guess if you used a circular drill bit, like what you would use to cut a hole in a door for a door knob.  that should work great to do it.   not only would it be a perfect circle, but it would also have a centered hole in the middle.  you would just need to re-drill it big enough for the joystick shaft to fit threw.
-
someone please correct me if i am wrong

[AcidArmitage]

you could try a hole saw... the drill bit in the middle of it wouldn't matter because it needs a hole in the middle anyway

[Senator]

Not to mess with your game plan but one of the best tips I read on this board, I think it was a LeapinLew thing, is that the dust washer should really be BELOW the CPO.  I got a Golden Tee overlay off of eBay, its made of a real nice plastic/vinyl kind of deal.  I routed out an area of the control panel around my joystick hole for the washer, then put my CPO and plexi over that.  Turned out real nice.  You could do the same thing with your custom washers.  I'll get some pics up once I figure out how to shrink them to a reasonble size.

BTW, I agree with the hole saw idea, get the doorknob size or even smaller, run it in reverse with light pressure, it should work perfectly.

[AcidArmitage]

i disagree with the dust washer on the bottom because i remember one tekken cab that had one dust washer missing... I was playing it and the joystick shaft pinched the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of my hand in the hole. hated that damn machine ever since

[steveh]

I have to agree.  I dont understand what they would do underneath.  every game i have ever seen had them on top, and if they are not there, what covers up that ugly hole?

[SavannahLion]

2.  How to polish the edge of the plexiglass once cut;

Sand with gradually finer papers until you can polish with a polishing compound then with cloth (no compound). Google for fish tank assembly on how this is done. Another way it can be done is to use a blow torch or another controllable heat source such as those described on this woodweb thread. Whatever you do do not attempt to use power tools (except maybe a hand dremel) to speed up the polishing process. With such a small piece, you'll likely take off more than the acrylic.

3.  What type of paint to use (I assume any type is fine)

You have to be careful. Some paints attack acrylic and cause crazing or orange peeling. this artist uses, what else, acrylic paints to paint on acrylic. Other paints will require primer against the plexi to prevent damage.

[ahofle]

I have to agree.  I dont understand what they would do underneath.  every game i have ever seen had them on top, and if they are not there, what covers up that ugly hole?

Not to mention it just creates a little well for the dust to collect.  I thought the idea was to prevent crap from getting down in there.

[DaveMMR]

Dust washers technically belong below the CPO, but that's much easier accomplished with metal panels than with wood panels.  No one bats an eye if they're on top (and some prefer it that way - including arcade operators).  I prefer it on top too just because I'm getting way too lazy to route out any more wood.

[javeryh]

I'm looking to do what mountain did with his cabinet except mine will be pink instead of black.

[RandyT]

I've been experimenting with the new laser cutter and can do them out of ~.080" clear plexi (acrylic.)   If you just want to purchase a couple, email me.

If there's interest., I'll put them on the store as well.

RandyT

[spacies]

Buy some from Randy and then apply some pink signwriters vinyl.

[Malenko]

I've been experimenting with the new laser cutter and can do them out of ~.080" clear plexi (acrylic.)   If you just want to purchase a couple, email me.

If there's interest., I'll put them on the store as well.

RandyT

can you cut me a piece of plexi to cover my control panel, heh

Ive broke like 9 pieces already

[RandyT]

can you cut me a piece of plexi to cover my control panel, heh

Ive broke like 9 pieces already

Sorry, the work area isn't large enough for a whole overlay.

RandyT

[xmenxmen]

can you cut me a piece of plexi to cover my control panel, heh

Ive broke like 9 pieces already

U might want to consider using a router to do your cutting on the plexi if you are referring cutting plexi and having them break on you using other method.  The router will melt the plexi, making it quite tough to actually break it.

[javeryh]

I've been experimenting with the new laser cutter and can do them out of ~.080" clear plexi (acrylic.)   If you just want to purchase a couple, email me.

If there's interest., I'll put them on the store as well.

RandyT

Thanks Randy.  I'm interested but I need to measure the size of the dustwasher on my CP when I get home from work.  Best guess is around 2.5" in diameter.  Depending on the cost I'd probably order 10 or so for future use...   

[mountain]

javeryh,
I would definitly use Randy's services. I had mine laser cut and they are perfect. You might still need to polish the edges, but thats pretty simple. I started off withh 600 grit sandpaper and went up to 1500 grit. After that I used the Novus three step polish. I really like the look of it because it goes well with all of the other shiny goodness on the CP 

Good luck!

[NoOne=NBA=]

I have to agree.  I dont understand what they would do underneath.  every game i have ever seen had them on top, and if they are not there, what covers up that ugly hole?

You've never seen any classic arcade cabinets?
How about an NFL Blitz cabinet?
They ALL had the dustwashers under the CP.

It wasn't until people started mutilating cabinets to convert them that the dustwashers started ending up on top of the CP.
On a properly done CP, the dustwasher sits just below the top layer of the panel.

[leapinlew]

Not to mess with your game plan but one of the best tips I read on this board, I think it was a LeapinLew thing, is that the dust washer should really be BELOW the CPO.

Lewis is a nice guy and everything, but this advise is flat out wrong.  The joystick is going to bind and you're gonna pinch yourself.

Wasn't me. All my dust washers are on top. Unless you like the idea of dust washers under the CP - then it was me. But if you don't like your dust washers on top, it wasn't me. Either way, I win.

[Senator]

Lew, I thought it was a great idea, soon after I saw it I was in an arcade looking at a Ms Pacman.  Sure enough, there was the dust washer under the CPO.  Made perfect sense.  I think it worked out great on my CP, very happy with it.  Thanks for sharing.

And for those that think its a bad idea:

Sorry about that Lew, I was just trying to give credit rather than presenting as my own idea.  Wasn't really aware of the downsides discussed above (I don't really think they are downsides but oh well, I'm a noob).  Thought it was you but I guess not and I can't find the old thread now.  It wasn't Lew really, he's much smarter than that.

[Dudeman]

You could get a circle cutting jig for your router, and cut them with that.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3582&productid=143735

[TOK]

I always figured they were meant to go below. The Happ sticks even have an indentation clear around the top for the washer to move around in when the stick is bolted to the bottom of the panel. 
As far as the dust going in... Where is it going to go, the extra quarter inch until it hits the washer at the bottom of the panel instead of on top?

[patrickl]

Dustwashers are supposed to go under a metal panel. Just look at the artwork. Dustwashers on top completely messes up the way the art looks on the classic CPO's.

[javeryh]

Doesn't the hole around the shaft look ugly if they are bottom mounted?  OMG that was the dirtiest thing I've ever typed.

[ahofle]

I always figured they were meant to go below. The Happ sticks even have an indentation clear around the top for the washer to move around in when the stick is bolted to the bottom of the panel. 
As far as the dust going in... Where is it going to go, the extra quarter inch until it hits the washer at the bottom of the panel instead of on top?

I was referring to wood control panels which is what I would assume the majority of MAME cabinet builders around here use.  That would leave a 3/4" hole for crap to collect if you put the washer underneath.  I agree that metal CPs are not an issue.

[ids]

Doesn't the hole around the shaft look ugly if they are bottom mounted?  OMG that was the dirtiest thing I've ever typed.

tsk tsk... and i thought this was a family friendly forum

[TOK]

I was referring to wood control panels which is what I would assume the majority of MAME cabinet builders around here use.  That would leave a 3/4" hole for crap to collect if you put the washer underneath.  I agree that metal CPs are not an issue.

I have a wood panel with the top routed for the stick base. The washer sits on the stick base below the plexi overlay. There is a hole for the stick to move, but there isn't really a hole for crap to collect since it's only the thickness of the plexi.

If people are bottom mounting sticks in 5/8" wood with just half the stick poking out of the hole, I could see that being unsightly, but in that case the dust washer is just hiding an ugly install. Thats not meant as an insult to anyone, I did that in my first two panels before getting a router.

[ahofle]

Ugly?  Bottom mounting is cleaner IMO and you don't have to weaken the wood by routing almost half of it out.  Also why do you suppose joysticks come adjustable for metal or wooden control panels if they are supposed to be top mounted?

[patrickl]

I think he bottom mounted the sticks, but routed out a thin layer on top for the dustwasher

[NoOne=NBA=]

8 way classics, it was on top.

Dustwashers, like plexi over the CP, didn't show up until the "lets slap this crappy game into a classic cab" era.
All the dedicated classics had the dustwashers below the panel.


Here's a quick list off the top of my head:

1942, 1943, Berzerk, Bosconian, Circus Charlie, Cloak & Dagger, Crazy Climber, Discs of Tron, Gauntlet, Gunsmoke, Gyruss, Jump Bug, Jungle Hunt, Kangaroo, Rampage, Robotron, Scramble, Smash TV, Street Fighter, Super Cobra, Super Zaxxon, Time Pilot, Time Pilot '84, Tron, Up 'n Down, Vanguard, Venture, Xenophobe, Xevious, Xybots and Zaxxon.
Even the Neo-Geo, PlayChoice, and .vs cabinets shipped with them underneath.

I'm sure I missed alot that also had them on the bottom, but I'd like to see a list of classic games that had them on the top.
Some of the ones that I included I don't really consider as classics (notably Street Fighter and the multigame systems I listed).

[AcidArmitage]

they used to make paint with lead... still doesn't mean its a good idea 

[DaveMMR]

they used to make paint with lead... still doesn't mean its a good idea 

Yeah, but it was a lot tastier!

[Xiaou2]

I was an Arcade manager.

 Nearly every one of the games had the dust washers on top.

 And, there is good reason...
 
 Try tipping a cup filled with soda all over the control panel.

 A Dust washer on top, will resist and divert more of the Liquid
away from the hole.    Keeping the joystick and micros safe
from a sticky mess.    Not to mention how much of a pain it
would be to take off the plexi to clean underneath it.

 And then you will hear people say..  well,  classics didnt have plexi...

 Yeah, and when the classics overlays started to crack,  it
made sharp edges and felt uncomfortable on the hands.  People
would then rip off the sharp parts.  Later, the other ends would get
loose and get sharp again.   Repeat this until nearly half the
overlay was ripped off completely.

 Plexi on top, and Dust washers on top..  provide greater protection
to artwork, and reduce problematic events such as spills, cracking,
and ground in dirt.

 Its not about what is 'classic'.. but what is more desirable.

 Its pure OPINION.

 (even for those who actually designed the things in the first place)

[RandyT]

So it's settled.  All of you who will be dumping soda and crap all over the control panel in your living room, make sure the dust washer is on top.  Everyone else put in underneath where it's supposed to be.

(sez RandyT, who has his dust washers on top because he's lazy )

[ahofle]

 

[Xiaou2]

The point was that Arcade put them on top for that reason.

 Weather or not they were designed to be on top or not is
purely OPINION of the designer.   Not 'Where its supposed to be".

 You shove them up your Butt for all I care.

[gurnie]

Not sure if you have already bought supplies, but have you considered lexan?  I just finished building a 3 gallon aquarium (MacAquarium actually) and found the lexan was pretty easy to cut (with a utility knife over and over and over) and was not brittle like plexi (doesn't splinter like plexi can).

[mountain]

sez RandyT, who has his dust washers on top because he's lazy )[/color]

 You shove them up your Butt for all I care.

(doesn't splinter like plexi can).

***Novagem Dust Covers made with 100% Lexan ***

...hmm

 

[NoOne=NBA=]

Weather or not they were designed to be on top or not is purely OPINION of the designer.

The point I was making is that all the classic arcade cabinet designers were of the OPINION that the dustwashers should be underneath.
It was arcade ops that put began putting dustwashers on top.

I'm just trying to keep the record straight here, so that the misinformation doesn't spread by being repeated.

And, just to be a butthead, black paint over the sideart was pretty popular with arcade ops at that same time.
Should we all copy that too?
I'm guessing it really kept the dirt from showing on the sides of the cab.

[patrickl]

Like a dustwasher is going to keep out liquids. Pfft.

How do you get liquids spilled on your CP anyway?

[leapinlew]

How do you get liquids spilled on your CP anyway?

When your friends come to your house to play video games
(I assume this is what your friends look like Patrick) 

[Senator]

Here's how mine turned out.  Like I said, I was really happy with the way things turned out.  Then this thread comes along and I realize my whole cp is in mortal danger.  My friends come to my house and drink beer too

I think the 7/8" inch ugly hole still looks better than a 2 1/2" ugly dust washer.  You may note that I rounded off the plexi around the hole to avoid pinches.  The left one is a tad off center but clearance is still not a prob with the short throw mag stick pluses,

[AcidArmitage]

dont lie that thing still pinches! 

[Senator]

Nope, I'm not even sure how one would use a joystick where its possible.  After this first came up last night, I tried purposefully to do it and yes, I can pinch myself if I try but its hard to do and I really can't see it ever happening in real life.

[AcidArmitage]

i dunno about anyone else but when i make a fist, i have a little fold of skin that pops up by the upper crest of my palm (near the pinky)... im not fat and ive pinched it twice.. .maybe im a mutant

[Kremmit]

I pinched my hand on CPs with no dustwasher on top back in the day.  Lots of times.  I don't think it ever happened with a plain metal CP, always wood or a metal one that had a thick layer of plexi added to the top. 

So, for me, the rule of thumb is:  Washer on top if the joystick hole is more than 1/8 inch deep.  Not for authenticity or looks- just to keep my hand from getting hurt.

Also, thanks to whoever it was that pointed out Mountain's black plexi washers.  I think I'm gonna steal that idea for a vader panel I'm putting together.

[DaveMMR]

I too have pinched myself with the dustwashers on the bottom.  I have huge hands so it touches the hole on short sticks.

[TOK]

I guess the finger pinching is a very valid reason for the dust washers on top. I have my panel set up like Senators with 1/4" plexi on top and have never been pinched. I noticed after reading this that I hold the stick from the top and don't rest my hand on the panel near the base of the stick.

Now that it's mentioned, I do recall seeing people who rest the pinky side of the hand on the panel and move the stick with the base of the index finger and thumb.

[Dmod]

You could get a circle cutting jig for your router, and cut them with that.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3582&productid=143735

Just to redirect the derailment of this thread in another direction...

These are cool.  But I don't quite get it.  Where's the router go?


Edit::  Guess it goes something like this.  Now that's a damn large washer!  That ought to do the trick.

[Xiaou2]

 For a small part like a dust washer,  I believe it would be better to invert
the setup.

 Basically, mounts the router upside down or use a router table.   Drill a
hole in the center of the plexi.   Secure a dowel that matches the hole
diameter that you drilled in the plexi.   Spin the plexi in a circle as the router
is on..  and you will have the part cut out.   The diameter controlled by the
distance you mount the dowel from the router blade.

 While you could drill the whole initially the same size as joystick size
needed..  it may be easier to use a smaller hole that will be easier to
find an appropriate dowel for.  (easiest would be a simple nail)

 Then, you could clamp the part down, and drill the hole large
afterwards.

[Dudeman]

These are cool.  But I don't quite get it.  Where's the router go?

The item you pictured is for large circles like cutting out tabletops. The item I linked to gets attached to and centered on the bottom of the router. You drill an 1/8" hole in you piece of wood, and place a pin in it. You then drop the router and base onto the pin making sure the pin lines up with the hole on the base that corresponds to the diameter you want to cut. Then you plunge the router into the work surface and pivot the router around the pin. That is how the circle is made.

The larger holes in the picture are the mounting points for various router bases.

[javeryh]

*sigh*  I totally destroyed the 2 pieces of plastic that Neverending Project sent me.  I also tried using a hole saw through some lexan and it didn't really work (the edges are a mess - but the hole looks nice!).

I'm never going to get this right.

 

[mountain]

*sigh*  I totally destroyed the 2 pieces of plastic that Neverending Project sent me.  I also tried using a hole saw through some lexan and it didn't really work (the edges are a mess - but the hole looks nice!).

I'm never going to get this right.

 

Yeah you are. I am beginning my next cab and will need more of the dust washers that I had made for my original cabinet. Let me talk to the guy that laser cut mine and see if he can rip out some more. If so, I will have him cut a few more for you.

I originally had him cut out of 1/16" clear Plexiglas. I then painted the bottom of them with black paint. Is this the way you planned on doing yours?

[javeryh]

*sigh*  I totally destroyed the 2 pieces of plastic that Neverending Project sent me.  I also tried using a hole saw through some lexan and it didn't really work (the edges are a mess - but the hole looks nice!).

I'm never going to get this right.

 

Yeah you are. I am beginning my next cab and will need more of the dust washers that I had made for my original cabinet. Let me talk to the guy that laser cut mine and see if he can rip out some more. If so, I will have him cut a few more for you.

I originally had him cut out of 1/16" clear Plexiglas. I then painted the bottom of them with black paint. Is this the way you planned on doing yours?

That's exactly how I'm trying to do it.  I'd definitely be up for a few extras when you place your order - just let me know and I'll chip in.  I got the idea from your cab!  Did you use acrylic paint or anything special or do you think the paint I used for the cabinet sides will be good enough?

[Neverending Project]

Wouldn't the paint wear away if it is on the bottom of the dust washer, and hence rubbing constantly with the CP surface? Just a question, really, since I have never tried it.

And javeryh... I am sorry to hear about your recent loss. Those pieces of acrylic and I shared some special times. I feel we really bonded. They were psyched to be traveling so far to end up on such a fine machine. I am sure they remained proud until the end, and they can rest well knowing that their loss will be for everyone's gain.

And now, a moment of silence for the acrylic dustwashers that never were...
 

[MaximRecoil]

8 way classics, it was on top.

Dustwashers, like plexi over the CP, didn't show up until the "lets slap this crappy game into a classic cab" era.
All the dedicated classics had the dustwashers below the panel.

Ikari Warriors, Victory Road, and Guerilla War all had dust washers on top. In fact, it would be impossible to mount them below without performing some sort of hack, because the base of the LS-30 is flat and fits flush against the underside of the metal CP.

Here's a quick list off the top of my head:

1942, 1943, Berzerk, Bosconian, Circus Charlie, Cloak & Dagger, Crazy Climber, Discs of Tron, Gauntlet, Gunsmoke, Gyruss, Jump Bug, Jungle Hunt, Kangaroo, Rampage, Robotron, Scramble, Smash TV, Street Fighter, Super Cobra, Super Zaxxon, Time Pilot, Time Pilot '84, Tron, Up 'n Down, Vanguard, Venture, Xenophobe, Xevious, Xybots and Zaxxon.
Even the Neo-Geo, PlayChoice, and .vs cabinets shipped with them underneath.

You are wrong about PC-10 and VS. machines. Those came with metal CP's and the joysticks had a plastic plate that sat on top of the base of the joystick with a raised circular section in the middle. This circular section fit up through the joystick hole in the CP. On top of that raised circular section sat the dust washer. Not only is this not "underneath", but the dust washer actually sits a little higher than most top-mounted dust washers, because it sits on the raised plastic which is a little higher than the level of the top of the CP. The same goes for other metal CP Nintendo machines, such as Punch-Out.

Also, the wooden CP Nintendo machines (DK, DK Jr., Popeye, etc.) had both top and bottom mounted dust washers, not to mention plexi CPO's.

Edit: BTW, it looks like Rampage had top-mounted dust washers too - [link]. There may be more but most flyer pictures don't show a good enough picture of the CP to tell.

[mountain]

Wouldn't the paint wear away if it is on the bottom of the dust washer, and hence rubbing constantly with the CP surface? Just a question, really, since I have never tried it.

I use a piece of felt between the dustwasher and the control panel.

[javeryh]

Wouldn't the paint wear away if it is on the bottom of the dust washer, and hence rubbing constantly with the CP surface? Just a question, really, since I have never tried it.

And javeryh... I am sorry to hear about your recent loss. Those pieces of acrylic and I shared some special times. I feel we really bonded. They were psyched to be traveling so far to end up on such a fine machine. I am sure they remained proud until the end, and they can rest well knowing that their loss will be for everyone's gain.

And now, a moment of silence for the acrylic dustwashers that never were...
 

I was so sad - I seriously spent about an hour sanding the edges up to 600 grit to remove all of the marks from whatever was used to cut them and to make the edges super smooth.  In hindsight I should have tried drilling the hole first but I really thought they were the perfect size and weight.   

Thanks again though...

[Minwah]

Lets talk about using carriage bolts to hold joysticks in.  ALL the classics did that....





 

[mrclean]

Sorry to pull this topic from the grave.. but it is almost halloween.. I was thinking about doing this to the sanwa / u360 dustwashers unless someone already made these ? I'd like to have my artwork exposed. Any one know the size of the shaft / and possibly the outside circumference of the dustwashers so i can get the same size as the black stock one but obviously make them clear !

[Franco B]

The shafts of the Sanwa JLW/U360 is 9mm. You want a hole in the washer approx 9.5mm for clearance when actuating the stick.

The Sanwa JLW comes with a 1.5" (38mm) washer and the U360 comes with a 2.5" (63.5mm) washer.

[Martijn]

little but offtopic, but does anyone know why the washers of the u360 don't stay flat when you move the joystick? it tilts a little when you move the stick to a way, no restrictor applied btw

and what is the little metal ring for that came with the washers?

 

[Franco B]

It tilts the washer as there is not enough clearance between the shaft and the washer when the joystick is actuated. The stock washers have a clearance of 0.35mm which is why I suggested 0.5mm clearance. Thats what diameter bore I made my stainless ones.

As for the metal ring, i'm not sure which part you mean?

[Martijn]

is the tilt gone with circular restrictor? or should i make it more wide, or let it be..



this ring came with it, it has almost the same hole size as the washer hole

[RandyT]

I'd like to have my artwork exposed.

I just wanted to mention that we've been supplying acrylic dust washers for the VersaBall shafts to our vendor customers for a while now.  The laser makes some nice edge work, so if anyone wants clear in ~1/16" thick acrylic, I can do a run of them.  Just give me the dimensions you need them in.  They'll cost a couple of bucks each.

I'll add the standard size to the store if anyone is interested in those.

RandyT

[clickhea]

i need custom dust washers, i just gotta take a quick measurement for you.

[Jack Burton]

I don't think anybody recommends putting a dustwasher underneath 3/4" of wood.  That's just stupid.

But, putting one underneath 2mm of metal looks really cool.   My MK cabinet had them this way originally. 

Does having it 2mm underneath the panel make a well for dust to collect in?  You bet your ass it does.  When I took mine apart it had a thick layer of concentrated black evil underneath the artwork.  And it did pinch my hands.

Still looks cooler though.