Control Panel Review - Stupid?

[dweezinator]

I have an upright Joust cabinet which I am cleaning up for MAME.  It has a small control panel which is 5.5"x24.3".  I seems obvious that having a 2 player fighter layout with an additional dedicated 4-way and a spinner would be too much.  Until I read PaigeOliver's "Top 10 Mame design tricks" (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=64288.0;all) where he suggests mounting an 8-way and 4-way side-by-side.  This compress the layout considerably.  Is it enough?  You decide.

I should note that the control panel sits lower than the sides of the cabinet.  Also, the 8-way joystick for player two is a Happ Compact Top Fire for Tron.

Is this layout usable by two players?  I am not too interested in fighter games, but I would like to play classic two players like Joust, Mario Bros., Track & Field, etc.

[bfauska]

I think it looks promising.  I would be worried about crowding of the p2 joys and the trackball.  I have a 2 player 6 button layout on a 26" panel and it's got enough room for fighters, 2" less shouldn't be too bad for less action based games.

If you can get your hands on a piece of scrap wood you could do a working mock-up and test it for playability.  I'm on mock-up #2 on my Dynamo and I think I've got the final ideas worked out, now it just depends on which games I want on it and which games I want on my vertical cab.

[severdhed]

i agree with bfauska, it looks promising.  i also highly recommend making a temp panel out of scrap to get a feel for it....some things look good on paper, but don't work out so well in reality.  it took me 4 mock ups before i settled on a layout for my panel

[dweezinator]

thanks to both of you.  i will make a mock up. 

[javeryh]

Definitely build a mock-up.  Also, is there any way to sneak two more buttons in for player 2?  Fighting games are some of the most fun 2 player games, IMO...

[xmenxmen]

For a cp this small, I would not consider 3 sticks.  Why not ditch the 4 way and make p1 a switchable 4/8 way? 

[scotthh]

I have not read anything positive about the Ultimate Joystick. The Competition appears to be the favorite, followed by the Super among the Happ sticks.

Looking at the wooden CP that you took a picture of, there's room for two joysticks with buttons and a button-sized spinner in the middle, but not a third stick. Have you thought about a software controlled stick that can operate in 4 or 8 way mode instead?

I pre-date the fighter age, and I built my first CP with 6 buttons per player. I'm building another, and I'm going with 7 per player. In addition to the fighters, the bottom 4 buttons accurately mimic the neo-geo set up.

I've attached a picture of my ideas:

[dweezinator]

I've never  researched the difference between the Ultimate, Competition, and Super so thanks for your opinion.  The cabinet came with two HAPP Compact Top Fire which got mediocre reviews.  I felt I would keep one primarily for TRON.

I have thought about getting the U360 joystick but figured with a spinner (Turbo Twist 2) it would break my budget.  Have you used the U360?  It looks slick.

How many games take advantage of 7 buttons.

[xmenxmen]

Most people put the 7th button in for neogeo game, which other just manage to use the 6 button configure to play it.  The debate can go on and on, so it's a personal preference.  So it depends on how much you play those games and if you can live without the 4 buttons in a role.

The Utimate sticks are what used in most arcade fighting games back in the days.  The problem with them is that they can easy break and need to be fixed/replace often.  The Super and the Competition are very similar where fighter tends favor the competition more.  The super is a 4/8 way stick, but a bit of a pain to switch.

[dweezinator]

I look at the neogeo games.  I've never played any before.

[steveh]

you could look into a u360 to eliminate the 4 way joystick

[scotthh]

I've never  researched the difference between the Ultimate, Competition, and Super so thanks for your opinion.  The cabinet came with two HAPP Compact Top Fire which got mediocre reviews.  I felt I would keep one primarily for TRON.

I have thought about getting the U360 joystick but figured with a spinner (Turbo Twist 2) it would break my budget.  Have you used the U360?  It looks slick.

I have a U360 and a TT2, and yes, they were the most expensive parts in the CP. I mentioned both because I do like them. You can set up the U360 to do 4 way games, 8 way games, q*bert, 2 ways and analog. I have one U360 in a single player CP. It's a modified Sanwa joystick, so I think of it as a real arcade part. I'm building a 4-player CP and I'm using four $8 Competitions as opposed to $75 U360s. But I only expect to use it for 8 way games.

[dweezinator]

I'm seriously leaning towards the U360 now. 

What keyboard encoder do you use?  I know the U360 can have 8 buttons attached, but that isn't enough.  I've debated about a USB vs PS2.  I suspose if I get a U360 I would get a USB encoder. 

[DaveMMR]

I'm seriously leaning towards the U360 now. 

What keyboard encoder do you use?  I know the U360 can have 8 buttons attached, but that isn't enough.  I've debated about a USB vs PS2.  I suspose if I get a U360 I would get a USB encoder. 

8 buttons not enough?  That covers your 6 buttons, a start and a coin.   Plus is has shifting capability.   The keyboard encoder would be redundant.

[Space Fractal]

If you do not play Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat games, you are only need maximum 4 buttons for both players.

If you do not play Neo Geo games, 3 buttons should been enough for all old classic games (because the "original" Jamma standard did not use more than 3 buttons).

So 8 buttons is from U360 is absolutt fine, so you does not actually need for a keyboard encoders....

You can as some other wrote use a swichtable 4/8 way joystick (both Ultimarc and Groovy GameGear have one), so you can avoid the extra pacman joystick for a tiny space like yours. A spinner or trackball would been a better chooise, if you ask me. Here you need a keyboard encoder of course.

But it of course depend which games you play.....

[dweezinator]

Sorry I wasn't clear about my last post.  This will be a 2 player cab.  So 8 buttons on the U360 is not enough for both player 1 and player 2.   Take a look at the cp layout that scotthh created.  I will be creating a mock up of that.

[scotthh]

If you use a TT2, the included Opti-Wiz has 3 mouse buttons. Plus the 8 on the U360 gives you 11. If you use the shift feature on the U360 (see the bottom of this page), you get 15 buttons. But I'd get a minipac or one of GGG's Wiz products.

[DaveMMR]

Sorry I wasn't clear about my last post.  This will be a 2 player cab.  So 8 buttons on the U360 is not enough for both player 1 and player 2.   Take a look at the cp layout that scotthh created.  I will be creating a mock up of that.

Are you using two U360's?  That'd be 16 inputs!     If you're only using one... well, then yeah, you'd need a keyboard encoder then.  But I think your joysticks should match lest your opponent accuse you of giving them the worse of the two (whichever one he's happening to be losing on).   

[dweezinator]

Yeah, only one U360.  The 2nd player is a HAPP top fire for TRON.    So I need an encoder.

[Green Giant]

Yeah, only one U360.  The 2nd player is a HAPP top fire for TRON.    So I need an encoder.

Pick up a keywiz or gpwiz from groovygamegear then, gives you 32 inputs for $21.  Or if you want to spice it up, grab a LED-WIZ+GP which has 16 inputs and 16 led outputs. 

You could add some sweet led effects for your panel without having to buy a separate ledwiz.

[dweezinator]

A U360 and an LED-WIZ+GP would give me a total of 24 inputs which is good, but should I be concerned about doing this?  I assume it is possible to configure the two to work together but will it be a challenge?  I don't mind a challenge, just want to know what I would be getting myself into.

[DaveMMR]

It shouldn't be a problem.  I don't know much about the Led-Wiz+GP but I'm guessing they show up as keyboard inputs and the buttons on the U360 show up as game controller buttons.   So you just configure MAME with keyboard and joystick input.  It's a highly configurable program so you shouldn't have too many problems.

Also, I don't know if you considered swappable panels.  This is another solution to compromises and with USB connectivity of many encoders/controllers, it's easier than it used to be.  Something to think about.  Personally, I did make my panels swappable - however, I made it so one panel (two U360s and a trackball) will play almost all the games (trackball can double as a spinner in a pinch, albeit not as fun).  Down the road, I can make specialized panels without much issue.  I'm not suggesting you do or not do this - just informing you of another option if you're scrambling for space.  ;-)

[Green Giant]

A U360 and an LED-WIZ+GP would give me a total of 24 inputs which is good, but should I be concerned about doing this?  I assume it is possible to configure the two to work together but will it be a challenge?  I don't mind a challenge, just want to know what I would be getting myself into.

They should work just fine.  The led-wiz+gp shows up as either a keyboard or gamepad controller.  Either way you will hook it up with the u360 and it will show as two gamepads or a gamepad and keyboard.  They will both work and are easily configured in mame as well as other emulators.

[steveh]

i have the u360's and the minipac. the mini pac will power your trackball as well as your second controller.   just depends on what you want.  I since i ordered the 360's from ultimark, it only made sense to order the encoder there too.