Serial converter questions(yes more questions sorry)-Xarcade

[genesim]

Ok got a few more.   

So if one were wanting to convert a Serial to PS/2 and PS/2 to Serial along with Serial to USB, do you see any problems with voltage etc.??

I heard PS/2 to Serial is quite common, but never the other way around.

I have all the connectors, but still wondering if there is a potential for frying a circuit board or a PC/console system.

I am wanting to do this to use a KVM switch box.

Thx in advance.

[xmenxmen]

1st off, what the hack are you trying to connect that's serial??  I am pretty sure that's no problem with it, but why???  I would say it's probably easier and cheaper to just go buy a cheap usb kvm, or just switch over to ps2 completely.

[genesim]

The Xarcade uses serial ports for consoles.

I want it to switch with a PS/2 KVM switch.

The USB is because I want the alternate because I have a IPAC on board as well that is COMPLETELY independent of the Xarcade DIY board.

Goes like this.   Serial female comes off the board.    Male serial to USB or PS/2 goes to computer.     

Optional Male/Male Serial pass thru goes to Female Console adapters(Dreamcast and Playstation 2).

Now the problem is in many parts.

First of all, the USB/PS/2 is wrong gender on serial side if you want to connect it outside of the arcade panel without cutting it up...so I bought a gender changer to female to work with the male pass thru.

So now all connectors to respective computer/console are female.    Then I got a male serial to male PS/2 converter for each part wich can plug into my KVM to switch between the 3.    Then I got a Male to male converter the goes from PS/2 back to serial...but I then had to get another gender changer to switch it back to female to use the male/male pass thru back up to the original board.

Now what I was wondering is if signal is going to be a problem, or any kind of electric overload etc.

To me, this should all work, but I haven't tested yet because of a faulty board.    As soon as that is replaced then I will try these out a little at a time.    I would rather use one switch box then get a separate serial switcher.

One button and I can use audio/video/control panel at the same time.    With the exception of switching digital to analog at my LCD, it will be quite simple....IF it works!

[xmenxmen]

Not really sure it's all those conversion should work or not, but one thing I can recommend is that when you do the switch, make sure the component (computer or ocnsole) is off before making the switch just to be safe.

Give it a try and let us know.  Personally I can see this introducing more problem than it's worth, but creating interesting things is what we do here a lot.  So anything is possible.

[SavannahLion]

Go ahead and try it, but I think you're misunderstanding just what it means to do all that gender and race bending. I looked at the X-arcade and did only a small amount of research to understand the basics of how it works. I lost interest in purchasing it so I never bothered with the fine details.

The short of it, it's going to take a few more adapters than what you've got because you're probably going to need to interpret the protocol at each stage. In the end, you're going to spend too much money trying to get everything to work together when going with a different solution might net you more satisfactory results.

The long of it is; The X-Arcade obviously serializes the button presses. XGaming claims the XA, "Uses standard serial connection." I've yet to see anyone report plugging in the X-arcade into their legacy serial port and getting results. Because of the included PS/2 adapter one can probably assume it's just a DB9 to a PS/2 cable. That likely indicates the XA can natively communicate via PS/2.

Here's the gotcha though. The XA uses a box for the USB adapter. It's hard to get a good photo the insides, but it looks like there's a circuit board inside. Likely means the XA can't natively communicate via USB. That's the ingeniouseness behind what XA is doing. Rather than modifying the firmware with each new console, they simply sell the updated controller in a seperate box. There's ZERO need to provide support to update existing XA's in the field with a new protocol and a way to charge the customer extra if they desire the new protocol.

I lost track of what you're trying to do, but in the end you're likely going to encounter protocol problems.

You're giving the XA a Serial<->PS/2 adapter, so now it's communicating in PS/2 to the KVM. From the KVM, you're switching from PS/2<->Serial to go to the individual console adapters. Ooops.... The XA is communicating in PS/2 to the KVM which is also a PS/2. The KVM is sending out a PS/2 protocol, not the RS-232 protocol. The XA probably has no idea it's connected to a console adapter down the line. To consider a possibility of working, you'll need a box (not a cable) that actively converts the protocol from PS/2 to RS-232. This assumes the serial protocol is standard RS-232.

The USB presents the same problem. You can't just use a passive PS/2 to USB cable from the KVM (unless the KVM can actively convert to the USB protocol). You need an active PS/2 to USB converter for that. You can forget about a passive Serial to USB cable, it's going to have to be active.

With all these conversions, you're going to encounter some interesting limitations. Can you ensure that all the active converters at each stage will pass all the key presses or is one of them going to restrict keypresses at some point? What about lost packets? Packet delay? Those protocol conversions aren't free you know.

My suggestion? Forgo the KVM entirely. Use a dumb 1-to-X Serial selector box. Most use those annoying selector knobs, I've seen a few circuit projects that use a digital selector switch. By doing so, you cut out half of your conversion problems. With a little circuit bending, you might even be able to adapt a video selector switch for the consoles as well. I suspect that's the main reason you're doing all this contorting with the KVM. By using a dumb 1-to-x selector, you minimize the number of active protocol conversions required.

A PC can accept multiple USB keyboards, so a direct connection from the IPac to PC will should cause no problems.

[BobA]

This has been discussed before.   I cannot find the thread but it was established that the X-arcade interface is not a standard serial port.

It does use a serial cable but not the serial port protocols.

[genesim]

Savannah that is an excellent rundown.

I do get what you are saying.   Kind of like trying to run a Playstation 2 to a monitor that doesn't have Progressive signal running though it.   Alll the box does is keep component protocol, but if the signal isn't strong enough...as in having enough lines, then you get squat.

I don't know the complex nature of it all, but I get what you mean.    In the end I am betting that it won't work.    The fact that xarcade doesn't use strict serial protocal, that could even be a bigger problem.

The end result is that it seems it will cost more then a 2 dollar part because at the very leat it will have to be an amplified line.

I do hope the gender changer will at least work right?    I hate that part of the design.     I would rather switch the cable outside of the box rather then inside.

I will post some pictures later to maybe waste your time a little more to assess the problem if you get time.   I still appreciate all your input though.    Thank you.

As for the serial to USB/PS/2  that is provided by Xarcade, so that part should work...if I can get the Serial protocal back after the two conversions from the KVM..which sounds like a problem.

[SavannahLion]

Thanks BobA. I thought as such when I read about their patents.  I don't own an X-Arcade so all of what I know is based on what I could figure out from descriptions and photos.

Genesim. I wish it was simply a matter of using adapters. You're going to have to back track a bit and look at what you're trying to accomplish there. I don't think the KVM isn't going to work (though you're welcome to try, I don't mind being proven wrong) because the of the conversion from PS/2 to serial. In that respect, drop the KVM. Don't feel bad, I have a perfectly good 4-port KVM I don't use anymore just hiding somewhere.

Google for "Manual Serial Switch" such as this model. These suckers have been around for years. If I recall correctly, the switches inside should be a true 9P#T switch so all the pins are switched. Using this, you can cut out all the crazy conversion you're trying to do.

As for the video. That's a different matter.

[severdhed]

wow that was confusing.  if I understand correctly, you have a pc, as well as several consoles in your cabinet and you want to use your x-arcade with all of them without swapping cables.  If you get get this to work with a KVM, thats awesome.  when i set up my cabinet, i had a PC and a dreamcast, and an x-arcade.  the kvm switch that I had even had serial ports, but it would not switch the controls.  after alot of messing around, i ended up getting a manual serial switch for the controls, and used the kvm to switch the monitor.  sure, you have to turn a knob and press a button, but it works great every time.  using all of those converters and adapters is just asking for trouble.

[genesim]

I actually just got the interface working which I had to get a replacement.

I don't know if this was their fault because I had one ground wrong.    Still, the computer should have detected it.    I used a windows xp computer out of convenience and got it detected and working fine.

Ran out of time, but next step is getting it detected on my arcade Vista computer( I know I know).

The Console adapters weren't working at all.   So I don't know what is going on there so I am going to get a serial replacement and a possible replacement for the part to the board.

So at this point, I just want to get it working before I try any tinkering.   As it stands, I think I am following you guys advice and just getting a box.   I may be out of the %&$#@&!! money for all the connectors, but I would rather not take the chance of roaching something.

On a side note, the Ipac still works great for the dedicated other buttons.   So I will use it for special joysticks, and the Xarcade for the main ones(no sharing of microswitches!).

When its done, I will be so happy because it has been a long road which I will detail when everything is done. 

[xmenxmen]

If you have both the ipac and the x-arcade, why not do what others are doing and use the ipac to interface to the pc and the x-arcade to interface to the console.  Then between the interfaces and button/stick, use a printer switch to switch between them. 

That way you get the best of both world and a real proven working solution.

[genesim]

I am trying to understand this.   Are you saying that both encoders should share the buttons??   So a switch will disconnect either encoder as seen fit?

I am trying to keep them seperate, but a different way can be welcome if there is really an advantage.

So far the XArcade is fine to the PC..but I do understand the Ipac is better..at least that what people say around here.

[SavannahLion]

I am trying to understand this.   Are you saying that both encoders should share the buttons??   So a switch will disconnect either encoder as seen fit?

What he's describing is a 25P2T switch like this printer switch Not nearly as readily available as the serial boxes.

[genesim]

But to what purpose?   As a go between the buttons?