translucent and illuminated ball tops

[SavannahLion]

Is SlikStik the only company that sells Illuminated Balltops?

It's a cool product and the white would go perfect with a cabinet idea I'm tossing around, but I'd like the option of controlling which color is lit. So a person either has to permanently settle for one color or a balltop that cycles through all of the colors.

Googled around elsewhere, but didn't see any other offerings. 

[genesim]

It funny you mentioned that because I was thinking the same thing today.

The problem I have with the any aluminum/steel joystick(that is completely) is that it tends to be too heavy.    I got them at one time, only to quickly get rid of them.   Not only did they have at least some wobble, but they also were incredibly too tall.

For me, a arcade stick should have a lighter feel, and the grip just feels right with plastic.   

Now I do understand the tops are plastic, and having no experience with the light ups..they seem to be better, but it still feels a little "busy" for me.

So I guess I am not much help, but my experience does come from the aluminum alloy that SlikStik sells, and I am sure these are along the same lines.

[SodaPopinksi]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=52509.0

Someone modified their Slikstik balltop with an RGB led here, however I couldn't find any pics of the final result. Another company that may produce illuminated balltops is Seimitsu. Per from Akihabarashop.com posted a picture of the translucent LB-39's with led attachments but they aren't in production yet. I also remember reading that RandyT from GroovyGameGear may consider offering some illuminated RGB balltops.

[SavannahLion]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=52509.0

Yep, that's exactly the kind of thing I want.

[Cornchip]

  I was also considering making a batch of handles. I was originally inspired by the modified Slikstik post (to avoid ordering from Slikstik.) They have a price that is tough to beat. I think that there is a little room for further development (more bases supported etc.)

 Cornchip.

[SodaPopinksi]

Wow those bat tops look sweet, yeah there is definitely room for other bases, I'd love to have U360's/Sanwas that lit up

[Cornchip]

  The Sanwa's could be modded to LED's as easily as the Happs. The U360 is another case. The circuit board on the bottom would prevent the use of a jack at the bottom of the shaft. Maybe there's another way.

 I'd like to get my hands on a pair of Sanwa JLF's to mod. Anybody know the shaft diameter thru the base?

 Cornchip.

[Kaytrim]

I hope this helps cornchip 

[Cornchip]

  Great diagram Kaytrim. That's just what I needed. Thanks!
 
 Comparing the Happ's to the Sanwa shaft, I can say the shaft diameter's on the Sanwa's are 3mm smaller at the circlip end. That would be to small for the jack I mounted on the Happ's (it had a 8mmx1 thread).  I could however  thread the end of the shaft with a 7mmx1 thread (external) and make a separate threaded bushing to adapt the larger jack (3.5 mm female). Another option would be to locate a 2.5mm 4 pole female jack and see what size thread it uses. Hopefully it would turn out to be 6mm (1/4 inch).

 Cornchip.

[Kaytrim]

I tried to figure out the threads on the shaft but my tool and die set didn't match up well.  Ask Numski, he should know he makes custom ball tops for the Sanwa sticks.

TTFN


btw the ball top that I have is 35mm in dia, they also have a 30mm ball and bat tops.  Semitsu makes a 30mm, 35mm and a 45mm ball top that fit the Sanwas.  So you have your choice of types and sizes. 

[Timoe]

ooh and ahh.   

Keep it going!

[Kaytrim]

Cornchip,

One other thing, the groove at the base of the stick is for an E ring and is about 1mm deep  That E ring keeps the inner mechinisims together because they are loaded with a spring.  I'll try to get you an exploded view of the innereds but it will be late tonight.

TTFN

[Cornchip]

  I think I'll message Ponyboy in the next day or two to get my Sanwa JLF-TP-8YT stick(s). From there I'll build a 'mini stick' project with the spare parts left over from Revolver (using RGB Led's). Look's like I've got a project!

 Cornchip.   

[Kaytrim]

You might want to make a bunch of them with single color LEDs.  You could probably make a mint with them.   I know that I would want a green one.

TTFN

[SodaPopinksi]

Yep that'd be awesome, curious, can you make lighted balltops in addition to bat tops?

[fjl]

I would love to see the U360's have illuminated bat tops. And I think its possible it would just require modifying the metal stick. Drill a hole in the middle and have a wire go through it but not from the bottom but from the side within the enclosure. It can cause problems though like the wire getting in the way of stuff and simply wearing and causing an open in the wire after some use, but I believe it can be done.

[Cornchip]

   The 360 will not likely ever happen...here's why. The handle of most joy's that I've seen are free to spin while assembled. If it didn't spin, it would restrict movement. That's why the original design by Slikstik used an audio jack to create a rotary contact (great idea!). That jack must be on the center line of the axis of rotation (at the bottom of the shaft). If the wires went out through the side of the shaft...they would inevitably become wound up and restrict the free movement of the joystick. I think it's a done deal....no 360.   

 For Soda...I have made Balltops. As others here, my preference is the Battops for upright cabinets. Balltops would be better for Cocktails and Mini sticks. Just my two cents. I'm not restricted to a single way of thinking. 

 Cornchip.

[csa3d]

   The 360 will not likely ever happen...here's why. The handle of most joy's that I've seen are free to spin while assembled. If it didn't spin, it would restrict movement. That's why the original design by Slikstik used an audio jack to create a rotary contact (great idea!). That jack must be on the center line of the axis of rotation (at the bottom of the shaft). If the wires went out through the side of the shaft...they would inevitably become wound up and restrict the free movement of the joystick. I think it's a done deal....no 360.   

I plan on getting a pair of 360s.  I'd bet you could figure it out.. you know you wanna    pretty please? lol.  When you do, I'd take 2 green balltops.

-csa

[SodaPopinksi]

I was looking at the u360 just now and yeah it would be no small feat to illuminate it, not only does the bottom magnet interfere with things, but there's a lot going on above it too, actuator... spring... The only thing I could think of was to maybe have a section of the lower shaft that spins independently, where you would then drill a hole in the side of it for... well... something like this:



But even if you managed to do something like that there's the actuator and spring in the way of things too.

Btw that ball top looks excellent

[SavannahLion]

Slip ring

[fjl]

Is slip ring those rings that spin with the wire contact kind of like a bearing? I'm sure that could be implemented.

[Popcorrin]

With the U360s I would put the audio jack in the bottom of the joystick just like slikstik does and mount the magnet to the bottom of the audio jack.  You would of course have to extend the mounts for the pcb but that shouldn't be too difficult.

[Green Giant]

It is really quite easy.  Just drill out the top of the shaft.  Insert a fuel cell powered led, and you are set with a light for a month or two.

[Cornchip]

   Unfortunately I don't have a 360 and doubt that I'll have one anytime soon. I agree that it could be done with money and time (I have the time...but not alot of spare money  ). I'll stick to the more basic styles for my needs. Is the U360 really that good?

 Cornchip.

[Kaytrim]

There are a lot of people that like the U360 over any stick out there due to the versatility.  personally I like the 49-way sticks with the encoders from GGG.  It is basically the same just not as fine in the control ability.  The U360 is true analog but is restricted to a 9x9 grid where the 49-way is a 7x7 grid.

TTFN

[SavannahLion]

Is slip ring those rings that spin with the wire contact kind of like a bearing? I'm sure that could be implemented.

Pretty much. But, it doesn't look like anyone is jumping on the idea. 

I've got a couple of ideas with different types of slip rings that might work. but eh.  Maybe when I actually get a hold of a 360, I could try them out.

[Cornchip]

   When I think of a slip ring, I think about brushes on a commutator. I was wrong. I went to Wikpedia for a start. The difference is a slip-ring has liquid Mercury to make the connection instead of a brush or contact. The challenge is can we find one with up to 4 contacts (RGB) and cheap enough (and that can fit without adding a detrimental amount of length. Stay tuned.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_rings

 

[fjl]

Mercury! Hey I never even thought of that. It should work pretty well and never wear out. Kudo's to whoever came up with that.
 

I'd gladly sell my u360 for one that comes with an RGB. Take that into consideration, whoever makes the U360's. Now if they only made a turbo twist2 with an RGB and light guns with RGB's in them, my CP arcade would be complete!
 

[SavannahLion]

   When I think of a slip ring, I think about brushes on a commutator. I was wrong. I went to Wikpedia for a start. The difference is a slip-ring has liquid Mercury to make the connection instead of a brush or contact. The challenge is can we find one with up to 4 contacts (RGB) and cheap enough (and that can fit without adding a detrimental amount of length. Stay tuned.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_rings

Oi, people need to stay away from Wikipedia. When you get enough money to buy the mercury slip ring, come back and let us know how it worked for you.

If you're like me and more interested in a true BOYAC solution, try Google instead. You get better information and better ideas that way.

edit: fixed url code

[Cornchip]

 Yeah...I think cost is an issue here. There's just no way you'll find an affordable slip ring. I've looked around a bit....and it's not looking good.

 Cornchip.

[SavannahLion]

Is there a part sketching or some such to get a better idea of how the U360 is constructed?

[NIVO]

if'n you dont want your wires tangled up underneath do to the stick spinning around(eventually it'll happen) you may consider a cheap solution like a twist-free phone cord jack. I'd check places like dollar stores/biglots/etc. Staples thinks they need to sell an item like this for $3, but if you look hard enough .59 is very doable. 

[Kaytrim]

if'n you dont want your wires tangled up underneath do to the stick spinning around(eventually it'll happen) you may consider a cheap solution like a twist-free phone cord jack. I'd check places like dollar stores/biglots/etc. Staples thinks they need to sell an item like this for $3, but if you look hard enough .59 is very doable. 

aww crap, forgive me, i modified the wrong post. Didnt mean to intrude on this one sorry and i fudged your reply. Sorry bout that one kaytrim.

[SavannahLion]

Does the fact the U360 spin have some sort of gaming functionality? I don't see it mentioned anywhere on Ultimarc website.

[Kaytrim]

No it serves no functionality but smooth out the movement of the stick.  If you have played with a stick that is fixed, no rotation, it is more difficult to get the directions exact.

TTFN

[SavannahLion]

No it serves no functionality but smooth out the movement of the stick.  If you have played with a stick that is fixed, no rotation, it is more difficult to get the directions exact.

Can't say that I really ever noticed. I tended to hook my paw or palm it depending on how slick the stick was.

[Cornchip]

    Thanks NIVO for the suggestion. I can't guess at the durability of the twist free jack....but it is a great solution to get 4 conductors thru the base of a handle (if all 4 are supported...might be only 2 conductors). A problem might be integrating  the jack due to it's odd shape. Still....I wouldn't mind seeing one of these jacks with my own eyes.

 About the U360....you can pretty much forget about it as far as development in this thread. I don't mean to sound harsh and I apologize if this upsets some. This time around for my uses...the Sanwa JLF was to be my interest. But what applies here can apply to other bases. The U360 really is another story due to the unconventional design. Sorry.

 Cornchip.

[Kaytrim]

I don't know how many of the JLF lighted tops you were thinking of making but there could be a real calling for them over at http://forums.shoryuken.com/index.php.  They use the JLF quite a bit for custom sticks.  I know that I am interested in at least one for myself if not for the custom sticks that I plan on building for others.  These would be single colors anyway no need for the RGB LEDs in these.  The voltage is 3.3v IIRC off the pads that get hacked.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[NIVO]

again didnt mean to fudge that post above kaytrim. I should've clarified my position further as I didnt mean this as a solution to the U360, i know full well the stick and its hinderance to modify. I was posting alternate info to use as a solution to other sticks. It does indeed work, but you'll need space beneath as this makes it a "tall order" to implement.

[SavannahLion]

Cornchip, I can't vouch for everyone else. For me, it has more to do with increasing the available options. It's not necessarily about specifically having a U360 light up.

[Cornchip]

   A 'tall order'. That's a good one. And yes...it is about available options. Look at what has already surfaced.

 Cornchip

[SavannahLion]

And yes...it is about available options. Look at what has already surfaced.

Yeah, I see that. I'm not dissing on what was presented here. Without this post, I would've sat there wondering if it would be worth buying SlikStiks to modify them. After this post, I know you can modify SlikStiks (increasing my options), the fact you're looking to do the same with Sanwa's, and U360's are a little more than difficult to mod.

I'm saying that even if the U360's prove difficult or too costly to modify, I have a much better idea of my options now. Nothing to get upset over.

[SodaPopinksi]

Perhaps the only way a stick like the U360 can be lit up is if Seimitsu produces the illuminated LB-39 bubble tops. The picture that Per from Akihabarashop.com posted in the Shoryuken forums shows the bubble tops lit by a small black cylinder base on the bottom of each... going by that picture alone I have no clue how they manage to light them

[SavannahLion]

It's probably beating a dead horse here. But what about cutting then splicing in an insulating gap at the pivoting point of the U360 stick? Then running lines to where the stick pivots. Turn the entire stick itself into a conductor. The top half goes to ground, the bottom half is hot.

That's probably too dangerous though.

[Cornchip]

 I apologize for not getting back to this sooner. I have made a little progress with the JLF that I will use in my future project. First I have to say how impressed I am with the Sanwa stick. The restrictor plates work great and are a step up on accuracy over the Happs products I currently have. A down side over Happs is the physical size of the stick and base. I would really prefer the Sanwa if they could scale it up another 15% to suit people who have larger hands. For my mod I kept the stick length the same as original but increased the ball diameter to 41MM (1 5/8th's) to suit my preferences. Still on my to-do list is etching a PCB board for the handset socket and resistors. Also I need to order some different types of LED's to mess with (RGB etc.)

 Cornchip.

[Kajoq]

In reference to the sanwa needing to be scaled up a bit... You should check out lizard lick.  They have a 45mm balltop for the sanwa sticks, and you can flush top mount the stick to pick up a couple MM of extra length as well

[Cornchip]

   That's where I bought them. No complaint's either. I'd recommend them.

 Cornchip.

[SodaPopinksi]

Wow, looks excellent!

[Kaytrim]

Hey cornchip, did you make a few extra of thoes?  (hint, hint)

TTFN
Kaytrim

[Cornchip]

  There's ups and downs to every solution. I'm not 100% satisfied that  there will be space under the stick for use in 'mini-stick' panels. This design used the 'twist free handset (TFH)' plug. To make it work...the 'twist free end' had to be mounted to a 'fixed surface'. The wire simply passes thru the handle. After passing thru the handle it must remain reasonably straight before connecting to the TFH. I can't tell you what this distance is yet. To close will restrict the centering ability. I believe this won't pose a problem to larger panel usage where depth is not such a problem. I would like to build a mini-stick..so I plan on making this work.

 Cornchip.

[Kaytrim]

The smallest mini-stick I have seen is about 2" in height.  There is just enough room for the stock JLF stick.  Most are a little taller by 1/2" to 1" so there is a little room to play with.  Is the shaft too thin for a right angle mini plug in the bottom?

TTFN
Kaytrim

[Cornchip]

  The solution using the right angle 2.5 would need a good 1.5 inches below the snap ring groove. That's just a guess. The parts are cheap...but are tough to find online without paying a fortune on shipping. Also the mono-stereo jack would limit the design to a single color LED....no RGB like the TFH. I'll look into it further if I can find them locally.

[DrumAnBass]

Wow, nice work Cornchip! Very cool!

[Cornchip]

   Got back to this today seeing that others might be interested (you saw it here first). The second revision uses a Slikstik style audio jack at 90 degrees to save on a little space in restricted panels. I won't say that it saved tons of space....just that it is absolutely as short as it can get. That measurement is 2.875 measured from the top surface of the mounting plate. That is probably more than some here might want to see. I don't believe the Sanwa LED will be much different (when they show that is) as far as overall length. It will be interesting to see how they connect the power thru the shaft. I'm guessing something proprietary that only a large company can pull off. You can't beat OEM setups.

  So this second one is more work as far as assembly time. So much in so little space makes soldering a challenge. I'm not sure it is something a novice might wish to tackle. It would be difficult to guarantee a working product with poor assembly on the users end. Other than that is finished.

 Cornchip.

 

 

[Kaytrim]

For the Mini Stick market these would be a hard sell.  The main goal in these are to make them as short as possible, thus the 2" I mentioned above.  If you are going to have the RGB LEDs then you will need Randy's interface boards and a PC.  Otherwise a driver board would need to be designed  with a voltage input of 3-5v.  This is due to the fact that the pad hacks used for most mini sticks are for gaming consoles, ie Playstation and XBox.  IMHO a single color LED would be ideal for this application.  I like the look of your batltops better than what Sanwa has produced.

TTFN
Kaytrim