Paint feels tacky - What am I missing?

[Lakersfan]

Hi folks,
I'm converting an old Sunset Riders cab into a MAME cab. The wood is pressed wood. I cleaned the heck out of it and sanded it until it was as smooth as a baby's behind. I primed twice and sanded between each coat. Now I am painting using Black Behr Premium Plus paint with a high density foam roller. After giving the first coat, it still felt tacky after about 5 hours, but in my anxiousness, I went ahead and sanded (without any problems) and gave another coat. Now, I've done 4 coats this way, waiting approximately 8-10 hours between coats but still feeling the tackiness. There's no problem when sanding but for some reason the tackiness feel just won't go away after painting and I can "scuff" the paint really easy by rubbing my fingernail along it. This last time I haven't painted since yesterday afternoon and it still has a tackiness feeling to it.

Will this go away? I feel like it's looking good but I am missing something. Can I get the buffer out and give this a coat of something to protect it? Maybe the weather has something to do with it (90-100 degrees) while painting in the garage??

Thanks for the help, you guys are the best!!

-LF

[ARTIFACT]

I cleaned the heck out of it and sanded it until it was as smooth as a baby's behind. I primed twice and sanded between each coat.

that's the problem right there

I am going thru this NOW on one side of my cab

Paint wants a ROUGH surface to stick to... You do NOT want to smooth your primer coats... at all... 100 grit at most... I did my cab SMOOTH after primer coats, and that was a MISTAKE. Anyway I found out later (a guy from the paint store told me) and the solution is to sand down what comes off and let the surface be a bit rough (not damaged, but not smooth either) and just paint on top of that... the paint will be thick enough to cover the "roughness" and it will stick to the surface much better.

I am no expert, as you see I just ran into the same issue, but I thought I'd pass the tips along.

Now my cab is looking and feeling a lot better. I believe you can sand LIGHTLY using 1500 grit after the paint coats ... to smooth a bit. Not the primer / before painting.

Good luck

[ARTIFACT]

make that 120 or 150 ... smooth-ish but not mirror-smooth for paint to stick

i confirmed with my father in law he knows his stuff

[leapinlew]

Give it a day to dry in a good temp (say 80 degrees or so). I've seen some issues where the paint didn't want to stick to the primer. If you take some water and rub it on a test spot on the cabinet and see if the paint comes off. If the paint comes off... yuck.

[WunderCade]

I think what the guy is trying to say though, is that it remains tacky, as if not drying all the way.

That's a different problem than simply peeling of a smoothed surface isn't it? Unless the dryness of the paint would be affected by the smooth surface, but that doesn't sound right. The paint should dry whether or not it adheres to surface.

I know, having used a latex enamel paint, that stuff takes almost a month to harden just right. Are you using latex enamel by any chance?

[t8erbug]

WunderCade hit it on the head. If the first coat is not completely dry the second coat will lock in the remaining moisture and increase the final cure time. I started taking my cabinets to a local body shop and get them painted for $50 a piece. He shoots them in what ever color I want. I just have to select from the car colors that are in the shop at that time, or just wait. The acrylic paint dries fast and hard. I have six kids and the cabinets in acrylic hold up better than the ones in enamel.

[ARTIFACT]

using acrylic here

and having smoothed the primer coats "mirror" DID result in the paint not sticking to it - I thought this post was about the same problem ("rubbing it off"). After roughing up the surface with 120-150 grit and repainting, it worked VERY well. I'm still working on one side that peeled a lot more than the other (= the smoothest side before I painted)

[Lakersfan]

Wow, thanks for replies, guys! I appreciate you taking the time to try and give me a hand.

A few of the answers to the questions you asked:
I looked at the paint can and it says 100% acrylic latex, semi-gloss enamel. And yes, it remains tacky. We last painted it Friday morning and today (Sunday morning) it still felt a bit tacky (maybe a tad better). So I took a dry towel to it and rubbed it and it scruffs all up. If its just a matter of waiting for it to fully cure, I'm down for that. But I'd hate to wait a month and have it feel the same way. It's not peeling, nor does it really feel like it would if I tried, although I'm only guessing as I don't want to try to peel it if I don't have to...

Thanks again!

[BobA]

The drying of paint is also influenced by temperature and humindity.   If it is too humid it will take forever to dry.  Only time is the solution.  If it feels tacky it is not sufficently dried.   To try to hurry it will only give poor results in the long run.   The application of a bit of heat over a period of time will help but only time really works.  If it is 90% humidity for a week it may not cure in that week.

[lettuce]

I had the same problem when i was painting my cab, took a good week for it stop feeling tacky. I would worry about it too much, just after about a week it shouldnt feel tacky any more

[WunderCade]

np....but i'd rethink using enamel in the future, steer clear of it. Most good brand (not BEHR) water-based paints these days are good enough to have a nice durable finish without the headaches of enamel. You can even finish it off with a good clear coat if you wanted.

Wow, thanks for replies, guys! I appreciate you taking the time to try and give me a hand.

A few of the answers to the questions you asked:
I looked at the paint can and it says 100% acrylic latex, semi-gloss enamel. And yes, it remains tacky. We last painted it Friday morning and today (Sunday morning) it still felt a bit tacky (maybe a tad better). So I took a dry towel to it and rubbed it and it scruffs all up. If its just a matter of waiting for it to fully cure, I'm down for that. But I'd hate to wait a month and have it feel the same way. It's not peeling, nor does it really feel like it would if I tried, although I'm only guessing as I don't want to try to peel it if I don't have to...

Thanks again!

[Lakersfan]

Thanks, you guys have relieved me a bit. I went out this afternoon to feel it and it did feel less tacky. So I think time is the key here. Next time I'll steer clear of the enamel...

Once it cures, will it be a little better with the easy scuffing that occurs now as well?

[ARTIFACT]

the easy scuffing part is where I thought you had smoothed the primer coats too much before painting - at least it's what happened to me

[f4phantomii]

I'm assuming the Behr paint is latex or latex-acrylic.  It's good stuff, by the way.

Some paints will dry, but take several days to actually harden up completely.

For example, some polyurethane based paints can take up to 10 days to fully harden even though they are tack-free within a few hours.  You can actually dig in a fingernail and the paint feels soft even though it isn't sticky.

Latex and latex-acrylics aren't that bad, but if it's humid (and it is here!) it may take a couple of days to fully dry out, especially if you are using a brush or a roller that lays on a thick coat.

I know it's hard to be patient, but I'd recommend giving it several days to dry well in between coats.  If possible, leave it in the sunlight for several hours at a time.

No problem sanding the primer and in-between final coats.....I do it all the time.....down to 400 grit.  Give it an excellent, soft feel.

If you are using a flat paint, I'd recommend thinning it out a little with water.  In particular, the Behr paint is pretty thick as they try to give you a "one coat" paint.  Yeah, it's easy, but doesn't usually yield the result you desire...especially if you are going to the trouble to sand between coats.

If you want that professionally finished look, you can't beat a spray finish.  I spray everything that I paint now.  A $70 air compressor and a $20 HVLP spray gun work fine for small projects.  Nothing else looks as good.  It takes practice...don't expect to be an expert the first time.  But I had a buddy spray his boat without any prior experience and it turned out awesome.  He followed my advice and painted several practice scrap pieces of wood until he got the spray gun set just right and the paint thinned just right.  In particular, the paint viscosity is key.

[Lakersfan]

Thanks. Well I work a ton of hours this week so I expect to get a lot of dry time in. 

Another question: the paint isn't really appearing how I thought it should. You can see roller paths (if that makes sense) from using the roller, even though we are trying our best to roll smoothly and evenly. It's a high quality foam roller that we're using. I know we're painting everything because after sanding you can see a slight haze that makes it easy to see where you need to paint. Is it just because it's a tad thicker in some places and once it completely dries, it'll go away?

[ARTIFACT]

man again ... I REALLY think you smoothed that primer too much.
what you describe seems to be that

to ME anyway - others feel that this is not the problem here

I fixed the problem by roughing up a bit (sanding 150 ... not too fine) and THEN painting - it worked a LOT better.

ALSO ... make sure you clean your surface with a damp cloth (not wet, a little damp) to clean up all the debris from sanding/priming ...

good luck.

[Lakersfan]

I've been using 220 between coats. I'll switch to 150 and see if that helps. My wife also suggestted putting it on its side when painting instead of keeping it in the standing position. So I think I'll put it on it's side as well.

Thanks for the input. I'll let you know what happens!!

[ARTIFACT]

It can't hurt to try

220 is what I was using and SOME of the cab was OK to paint ... just the big sides gave me problems as they were VERY smooth ... 150 solved the problem on these sides. I left the rest of the cab as-is as the paint stuck somehow.

I think this stuff isn't exact science... many people will tell you I'm wrong... I am just telling you what worked for me, with the same symptoms I had

Good luck!!! My cab is all painted, and I'm so paranoid I am not touching the thing for several days

[Lakersfan]

Congrats! On to your CP now!!
Hopefully the 150 will work for me as well. Did you paint it while the cab was laying on it's sides or did you keep it standing up?

[ARTIFACT]

Standing up, worked very well.
I first used high density foam rolls, and switched to the fabric kind (looks like carpet rolled) - that worked well (no "sliding", etc)
I'm still a paint cabinet newbie and can't help with much expertise yet... I just have good phone support by calling my father in-law

Yes my CP! ... I am waiting for my spinner, joysticks and trackball in the mail... I post lots of updates in my project thread.

[WunderCade]

Thanks. Well I work a ton of hours this week so I expect to get a lot of dry time in. 

Another question: the paint isn't really appearing how I thought it should. You can see roller paths (if that makes sense) from using the roller, even though we are trying our best to roll smoothly and evenly. It's a high quality foam roller that we're using. I know we're painting everything because after sanding you can see a slight haze that makes it easy to see where you need to paint. Is it just because it's a tad thicker in some places and once it completely dries, it'll go away?

Funny you should mention the "tracks" as I had that very same problem and that was part of the big hassle that turned me away from enamel paint. I mostly noticed that effect when I loaded the roller with too much paint (sort of like when painting a wall)....but it mostly went away after I began barely loading a light amount of paint onto the roller, rolling once across cardboard to even it out and then painting a lot of very light coats. But it was definitely a slow pain in the --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- paint job. Thinning it a little also helped.

My advice, if you aren't happy with the finish, just sand it back down with an orbital and switch to water-based satin or semi-gloss (Glidden is good) . Dries much faster. Then finish it off with a satin or semi-gloss cleacoat (I use Rustoleum).

Whatever you end up doing....I wish you much success and never give up. You'll get there. Just make sure to share some pics. We're a curious bunch.

[f4phantomii]

Another technique you can try to get rid of the roller marks/tracks is called "tipping".

Basically you roll on the paint as usual, and then go back over it very lightly with a good, fine paintbrush.  Having a properly thinned paint is critical here.

What you want is for the paint to be "wet" enough so that after you do the "tipping", the paint runs back together and flashes so that you don't end up with brush strokes.  It's tricky getting the mixture right...but it works.

Same technique for painting with a spray gun......you want it just thin enough so that the sprayed-on dots all run together and then flash so they don't run, drip, or sag.

And yes, turning the cabinet so that the surface you are painting is horizontal will help.  You can put the paint on thicker, and you are less likely to get runs or drips.

Like I said before....I hate brushes and rollers now....I spray everything.  Anything that is rolled or brushed just looks crummy by comparison.

[MrMojoZ]

WunderCade hit it on the head. If the first coat is not completely dry the second coat will lock in the remaining moisture and increase the final cure time. I started taking my cabinets to a local body shop and get them painted for $50 a piece. He shoots them in what ever color I want. I just have to select from the car colors that are in the shop at that time, or just wait. The acrylic paint dries fast and hard. I have six kids and the cabinets in acrylic hold up better than the ones in enamel.

What type of prep do you do for auto paint on your cabinets? I am looking at having this done to mine.

[t8erbug]

I sand them with 150 grit and then skim coat with thinned out body putty. Resand with 220 grit and let him shoot. One coat of primer and then paint. After two coat of paint, I wet sand it with 1500 grit and then one more coat. My body guy shoot two coats of clear on his multi-game and it's nice.

The real cool thing is you can sometimes get candy, pearls, and even metallic paint if your lucky.

[MrMojoZ]

Okay thanks, my cousin works for an autobody shop and knows painters that are always looking for side work. He is also a pro at bondo work and fabricating brackets and what not.