Pinball Plunger Assembly Question

[whynotpizza]

Hi all,

Has anyone purchased (or built) a pinball plunger assembly for use in your cabinet?

If so, any pointers on where to purchase the pinball parts as well as ideas for assembly into an arcade cabinet?

Thanks...

   David

[BobA]

Pinball plunger thread links to other threads on same topic.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63557.0

[whynotpizza]

Thanks for the pointers.

Looks like there are 2 schools of thought for doing this:

(1) Physical leaf switch hooked to the plunger mechanism
(2) Home-Brew circuit driven component which 'dampens' the effect of pulling the plunger

Anyone know which is better? Specially, a single key needs to be depressed (typically the ENTER key) to simulate the plunger mechanism properly. I wonder why the Home-Brew was done to dampen the effect. Is one better than the other?

Lastly, does anyone sell a complete kit for this kind of thing?

Thanks again!

   David

[Chris2]

My train of thought was that the realism of launching the ball could be pulled off with a bat top stick and shaft going into the machine. Then, take a round, solid piece of plastic and put the stick shaft through the hole. Then, get a small spring, like those in pinball machines, and wedge it between the plastic piece and the inside wall of the cp. Now, put an NC microswitch in a place so that the end of the shaft is depressing the switch when the spring is relaxed. Now, when you pull back the shaft, the plastic ring will compress the spring, giving the force of pulling back and letting go a Pinball plunger.


Just a thought I had last night.

[Green Giant]

Lastly, does anyone sell a complete kit for this kind of thing?

I have never seen a kit for anything that you are asking.  You might be able to get the parts for a plunger, but in this adaptation, you will have to customize it.

Why are you looking to do this?  I find most plungers on frankenpanels are a little to much.  they look great on dedicated pinball cabs, but thats about it.

[ahofle]

It would really be nice (and more realistic) if there was a way to map the plunger action in VP to an analog pot.  So it wouldn't be time-dependent, but rather dependent on how far you pulled it back (like a real plunger).

[Chris2]

I've never played Visual Pinball. Does the time you spend holding down the button determine the strength of the shot? If so, then it works the same way with my spring suggestion.

1. You pull the plunger back from resting position. The NC microswitch depresses, and VP registers a press of the button. The plastic ring on the plunger shaft is pulled against the inside spring, pushing it against the edge of the control panel. Pressure builds up.

2. The spring tightens, much like on a normal pinball machine. VP is still using the length of time that the button is being depressed to determine how hard the ball will be fired.

3. You release the plunger. The spring releases it's pressure, and pushes the plunger's end back into the microswitch. Now depressed, the NC microswitch registers a release, and VP interprets it as letting go of the button. Ball is launched, plunger is back in resting position, you play the field.

It works in theory at least. The only foreseeable problem is the time and distance that you pull back the plunger being equivalent to it's virtual counterpart. You could measure such things though.


Side Note: You could probably buy a plunger set from a Pinball machine parts manufacturer and adapt it easily to the control panel. You'd already have the spring and everything in there. And if you really want to get realistic, you could make a ramp inside of the panel, going from the side of the microswitch opposite the plunger to the far end of the control panel. Then, you'd place a metal pinball ball inside. Put it so that it rests against the edge of the microswitch that isn't being hit by the plunger. Then, when the plunger makes contact with the microswitch, the ball would be sent up the ramp to the edge of the control panel, giving you the sound of a pinball ball launch in real life, rather than just virtually. Of course, this is kind of overkill and only recommended for extreme cases. I'm not even sure if it'd work that well anyways.

[ahofle]

I've never played Visual Pinball. Does the time you spend holding down the button determine the strength of the shot? If so, then it works the same way with my spring suggestion.

Yes, that's how it works.

1. You pull the plunger back from resting position. The NC microswitch depresses, and VP registers a press of the button. The plastic ring on the plunger shaft is pulled against the inside spring, pushing it against the edge of the control panel. Pressure builds up.

2. The spring tightens, much like on a normal pinball machine. VP is still using the length of time that the button is being depressed to determine how hard the ball will be fired.

3. You release the plunger. The spring releases it's pressure, and pushes the plunger's end back into the microswitch. Now depressed, the NC microswitch registers a release, and VP interprets it as letting go of the button. Ball is launched, plunger is back in resting position, you play the field.

It works in theory at least. The only foreseeable problem is the time and distance that you pull back the plunger being equivalent to it's virtual counterpart. You could measure such things though.

This has been suggested before I believe.  One of the concerns would be the wear and tear of the plunger slamming into a tiny, cheap plastic microswitch (which isn't really designed for that kind of impact).  You'd need to design something that would accept the punishment of the plunger slamming back home and gently press the microswitch.  Also I'm not sure, but microswitch 'bounce' could be an issue.  Maybe some sort of leaf switch would work better?

[ahofle]

Ahh this is the thread I was thinking of:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=56978.0

Here is a nifty solution:
http://www.johnsretroarcade.com/hardware_pinball.asp

[genesim]

I haven't got a chance to really digest the information here because of my other work duties....grrr.  (Even though it isn't my thread)

But I totally appreciate all the input, and as ahofle points out, it is the wear and tear.

Green Giant,

Yeah it may be a bit busy and perhaps I will just be satisfied with the button, but if I read this and deem it worthy, I will post back.

I do like Pinball, but I have to admit, I haven't even tried Time Warp..etc. with Windows Vista, and I remember needing extra drivers for Windows XP.    I am not a big fan of visual pinmame because I don't think it is "real" enough.

That said, the work that has been put into it, and every new update, gets it even closer.    But the ones I talk about that you get from SlikStik(among other places of course) are really all I need anyway.     I hear Microsofts are pretty good too, but alas, a pluger is more then likely overkill.    BUT if I could get it retracted enough, it may not be too bothersome.

Still you can't get away from Physics..and an MDF panel.  I think eventually it just wouldn't last.    Of course there are the other things, like Driving pedals and kick plates and Qbert Knocker, but I have pretty much ruled those out.    It seems I am coming down to the end of my arcade changes(unless of course there is ever a great push pull spinner), but I still love to hear new ideas of which you guys have give me plenty.   Thx so much.

On a side note, got the Spintrak Spinner, and I am very happy.   It was a tough decision, but I ultimately like my old Slikstik knob more, so that is why I went with it.   

I digress, but were all fans right?   

[Chris]

the solution I used was that the shaft goes into a plastic cylinder; at the end of that cylinder is a vertical pushbutton (not a Happs horizontal) like these:



The plunger holds down the button at rest.  The NC terminal is wired, so releasing the button "presses" it.

The cylinder is NOT fastened to the cabinet, it is held against the cabinet by the plunger spring, so the whole cylinder moves forward to absorb the shock of the blow.

As far as microswitch "bounce": Yes there is bounce, but that just adds to the realism, as onscreen the plunger will jog slightly before coming to rest.  Your ball will be moving away from the plunger by then anyway.

--Chris

[genesim]

I am not following.

So are you saying the plunger atcually strikes the button at its highest point?

In other words, you set it up so the worse possible scenario is that it hits it at the complete depression?

To me, it seems like there is always a chance that a good hard pull would eventually shatter the button.

[Chris]

I am not following.

So are you saying the plunger atcually strikes the button at its highest point?

In other words, you set it up so the worse possible scenario is that it hits it at the complete depression?

To me, it seems like there is always a chance that a good hard pull would eventually shatter the button.

It actually tends to strike it closer to the edge; since the cylinder isn't fastened down gravity pulls it off-center.  Also, it's worth noting that a pinball plunger is only pulled a few times per game as opposed to a regular button that's hit hundreds of times per game.

But yes, eventually the button could break.  If that happens someday, I'll replace it.

[rchadd]

i like the idea of using an optical switch & circuit - less to go wrong due to wear and tear.

[mwong168]

I used Tagi3d's which only involves a cheap "leaf style" switch and some scrap wood to mount for plunger contact.  You can see in the video it works quite well.



The switch has to be wired in reverse if that makes sense.  If you have ever wired a switch before instead of using the usual (+) contact tab you use the other one so the switch is only engaged when it is not depressed.

[Dazz]

Until a true DYI analog plunger comes along; I think optical is the way to go.  I've had mine 5 years now and have not had to replace anything on it.  No wear & tear at all.

http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7633&highlight=optical+circuit

I built my plunger about 5 years ago originally for my MAME cabinet.  My plunger lived on my cabinet for years until my desire to build a pincab come along.  Now my control panel on my MAME cab has been re-done and pinball inputs have been removed and moved to my pincab.



I found the plunger schematics long long ago from John's Retro Arcade.