Leaf buttons tire my hands

[pmc]

I have a couple leaf buttons on one cab. The leaves are only like 3mm apart, so you can rapid fire with a gentle tremelo with your hand. That's cool. But I've noticed that when I use them for a while, my hand gets really tired. I think it's because the spring is strong and I tend to push all the way down. Timing shots isn't always easy. Maybe the button is too far down just before I fire (i.e., the button is already pressed, and then I press it even more).

The same cabinet has a Wico leaf stick and that tires my hand too. I get a workout I think. It's not like my J-sticks which are quick 'n easy.

Seems like the controls sort of "fight" me and that's why I have to work to fight back. Have I just grown used to microswitches? Or should I dork with the spring tensions? Or maybe the leaf separation?

-pmc

[RandyT]

Original leaf switches or some aftermarket microswitch replacements?

Not all leaf switches are the same.   The length of the leaf is just one factor that determines the stiffness. 

You might also be able to remove the spring from your buttons and let it rest on the leaf.  But depending on the type of arrangement you have, this could be a bad idea

RandyT

[Knievel]

Small o-rings from the plumbing section made my leafs shine. Place one over the button shaft, above the C-clip.

Brings the surface of the button down, lessens the travel, and makes them nice and quiet.

Before I did this I wasn't happy with them at all.

[Havok]

 

[RayB]

Lift some weights.
 

[ChadTower]

Used to be some guys couldn't lift their rocks... then they couldn't lift their logs... then they couldn't lift their batteries... now they can't press buttons!

[BrentRadio]

Well, back in the day, I could play Asteriods all day long, now my wrists get tired quick. My new buttons were kind of tight so I cut the springs down a little, that helped alot.

Brent

[Xiaou2]

 Leaf buttons have a very long 'travel'.  Meaning,  that they can be pushed much
further down than really needed, to activate the switch.

 I remember as a kid not liking them because I also pushed them down
too far, and thus got tired very quickly.   

 Now, I see that they can be more more responsive than Micros.  But, you
must learn to control the depth of each press.   It just takes some
practice to get used to.

 An option could be  to install a restrictive frame under the bottom of the
button, so that its max travel was shortened.    It need to be fairly strong
so that it will not bend under pressure.  But also, you should pad it with
a rubber surface, as otherwise,  if you press to hard you could crack
the buttons buttom.

 An alternative could be to insert a small ring of material into the
button.   In between the button plunger and the button shell.
Then, the button could only be pressed so far... however, if
the metal leafs bend too far,  then you wont be able to trigger them.

 

[Crowquill]

I don't know if I've ever gotten more exhausted playing with leafs than microswitched buttons. The secret is that you DON"T have to push them in all the way. You can tap them and not have to slam them all the way in. If you're inclined to push them in all the way every time, I think Knievel's idea should work well to reduce the travel of the button. You might have to adjusts the leafs a bit if you do it, though.

You could try modifying the spring, but the spring in a standard Wico button is very weak. You might check to see what yours looks like.

[xmenxmen]

Take some motrin and call me tomorrow...

[Level42]

Ever since I've owned a Suzo Home Arcade joystick (from my Atari 2600 until now) I've loved leaf switches.   The really early one's had leafs, later stupidly, Suzo changed to MS. Anyway, I think you could have two (or one of them) problems:

Take a look at the drawing I attached. I had always seen how some arcade buttons were so very much higher sticking "out" of the button rim than others. It was only until I restored my Galaxian CP that I discovered what caused this. ( I prefer the lower setting).

If you look at the drawing (this is from the Galaxian manual) then you see that the button is kept "in/downwards" by rings Number 4.
If you leave these rings out, the button is much higher, and you need to press it down a longer way.The rings are giving you a "head-start" by keeping the button closer to the upper leaf.

The other thing: take note of the amount of space between the CP and the leaf switch. If the lower leaf is too close, you will be bending it down (unnecessarily) deep. The principle is, that the upper leaf just touches the lower one when the button is pressed ALMOST completely.
At least, that's the way I like it.

That's one of the extra advantages of leafs over microswitches: you can set them up the way YOU prefer them to be. Like tuning a race car.  Tune it wrongly, and the car will feel lousy...same thing with the leafs....

About springs: I ordered 3 new white buttons for my Galaxian from Arcadeshop.com. Two of the buttons were exactly alike, but the third was just a bit different. One of the things was that the spring was a LOT tenser then the other two. So much so, that I decided to replace that one with one of the ancient springs  that were still in the old buttons of my Galaxian (of course, I took it of the 2 player button, least used !)
I like my springs to be "weak", I don't like to use force to press a button...I can imagine that a tense spring is tiring more than a weak one...

[rockin_rick]

I recently got my first cab, a Vanguard.  It's leaf buttons are of the stiffer variety, and I've also had my fingers/hands tire out.  Maybe this is because I haven't played much and built up my button pressing muscles....  While I don't workout my forearms, I'd say I'm above average there.

I got some replacement NOS buttons to freshen up the game, and they ended up being (coincendentally) of the lighter spring variety.  I've yet to try them out...

Rick
 

[pmc]

Well maybe I overstated the level of "tired" I get. The point is, the buttons are not set up right and fight back way too hard. To Level42's point, they need to be tuned.

From what I remember from the one time I disassembled and cleaned them: the buttons start out all the way up (very high), the leaves are near horizontal, and the springs are fairly stretched out and stiff and sproingy. They don't feel like an arcade button should and I have not adapted my play style to work well with them.

There's Lots of information here. I'll take 'em apart to better understand how they work and then modify them per the suggestions here. I'll post my results for the next guy.

RandyT: Yes, they are original (perhaps early 90s).

Thanks folks...

-pmc

[RayB]

Could it be "long" vs "short" buttons, used improperly would result in too much resistance?

[nate1749]

I don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but on my Donkey Kong arcade cabinet I have to slam on the jump button to get it to work, would replacing the spring be the right answer or the whole button assembly.  I was just going to order some parts off quarterarcade and hope they would do the trick after replacement.  Is there a spot to find more detail on how the buttons mechanically work?  I'm new to all this, but did go through the FAQ and attempted searching to find a solution. 

Nate

[rockin_rick]

If it's an original nintendo button, the microswitch can be adjusted...  Maybe you just need to adjust it - or is the microswitch bad?

Rick

[nate1749]

No idea if it's an original button, but how can I tell if the microswitch is bad?  According to the definitions/explanations I might just need to bend a piece of metal back...  I thought it'd be best to ask here first though.  Thanks.

Nate

[WunderCade]

Back in the day, we all had stronger wrists, from all the wrist workouts.

Well, back in the day, I could play Asteriods all day long, now my wrists get tired quick. My new buttons were kind of tight so I cut the springs down a little, that helped alot.

Brent

[rockin_rick]

Original nintendo microswitch buttons had a holder for the microswitch.  I believe that you can loosen the bolts and pivot the microswitch to adjust the distance.  Or bend the lever...

To test, adjust so that you are sure that you are pressing the switch all the way and see if it works reliably.

Rick

[RandyT]

Someone may have mentioned something along these lines already, but I think I understand the biggest issue with leaf switches;

If you they are set up as a hair trigger (minimal throw) and you push any distance past the actuation point, you will be pressing against two pieces of spring steel, making them feel very stiff.

However, if the actuation point is more to toward the bottom of the throw, you'll need to press them down further, but they will have less resistance by virtue of you not being able to flex them as far..

So the issue may just be that the switches are too close to your buttons (meaning they might need a shim or two) and you might have to decide whether to alter your playing style for a "hair trigger" or go for a softer button press.

Just a thought 

RandyT