Opinions on Control Panel Layout

[RetroBorg]

Hi guys,

I bought a lowboy cab ages ago and I am just getting around to building a control panel for it.



I don't like control panels that are wider than the cabinet so that only leaves me a control panel of 18 inches wide. So I was hoping for some constructive criticism of this proposed layout and knew this was the place to find it.



The blue spinner thingy on the left is actually an up/down joystick spinner I picked up on ebay.





The silver spinner thing to the right of it is actually one of these 8-way position rotary buttons I also bought on eBay to allow me to play games like Sheriff & Wild Western.





The joysticks will be Ultimarc Mag Stick Plus's and the trackball a 2 1/4 inch from Ultimarc
and I intend to hook it all up using a Mini Pac. I will also have the usual pinny buttons on the side and one on the front for a plunger.

I wanted pretty much an all round multipurpose control panel that would play most games.

Can anyone see any problems with the proposed layout?

Is a Mini Pac the best fit for this layout?

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Phil
 

[tba]

18" wide and you are planning a 2 player 6 button control panel? i hope you REALLY like your 2ND player, you are going to be standing close enough to share clothes!

my smallest panel is 22" wide (2 player 3 button) and it is VERY tight playing 2 player. i dint see how you are going to be able to stick that many buttons in that small a space... the buttons are going to be almost overlapping! i would consider either widening your panel or cutting back on buttons and moving the joysticks farther apart.

not to mention i have never been a fan off offsetting trackballs, it is in the middle or nothing for me!

  IMHO i think you might be over reaching your panel layout for the space you have.

[unclet]

I would not have 7 buttons for each joystick on an 18" control panel.  Get rid of the 7th button and conserve space.

If you do not plan on playing a lot of trackball games, then offsetting the trackball might make sense and might not, depending on what you want to achieve.  Your control panel layout has the trackball moved to the right side.   This is fine for a right-handed player since the actual player can still be centered in front of the monitor and can move the trackball with the right hand no problem (in my opinion).   However, if a left-handed player wanted to use the trackball, it might be a bit tough since they would need to stand to the left of "the cabinet" to make using the trackball feel comfortable.    So, I guess it just matters what you are trying to achieve with this control panel (ie: who you are trying to please basically).

Did you measure everything to make sure all those controls you want can be mounted that close to each other?  Some controls like the trackball, spinner and rotary thing seem to take up a lot of mounting room underneath the control panel.   Some of your buttons seem like they would need more space.   You need to make sure you have enough space to twist on the nut to the button as well.

Seeing as your spinner, rotary knob and trackball are all lined up with each other from left to right ..... you could make this piece a modular piece of your cab.    Imagine the spinner, rotary and trackball are all mounted on one rectangle piece of MDF board.  You could then lift this rectangle out and rotate it 180 degrees (so from left to right you would have the trackball, rotary and spinner) and then place it back into the control panel space.  This would allow left-handed players the ability to use the trackball as well.

Of course, you could simply mount the trackball in the middle and hopefully the player2 joystick will not get in the way when playing .......

[vidmouse]

I might reconsider making the control panel wider.
Even a few inches might buy you something while still being
able to get it through doorways and such.

[RetroBorg]

18" wide and you are planning a 2 player 6 button control panel? i hope you REALLY like your 2ND player, you are going to be standing close enough to share clothes!

my smallest panel is 22" wide (2 player 3 button) and it is VERY tight playing 2 player. i dint see how you are going to be able to stick that many buttons in that small a space... the buttons are going to be almost overlapping! i would consider either widening your panel or cutting back on buttons and moving the joysticks farther apart.

I currently have a four player control panel and player's one and two are about that far apart.



Granted I will have an extra button on each side but that will not take up any more width as it will fit under each joystick. I find my current four player control panel a little tight but not uncomfortable having said that I very rarely play games that require two players simultaneously playing, but my nephew and niece are young kids and they play those sort of games all the time, if it wasn't for them I probably would make a single player control panel but I find just as much enjoyment seeing the kids play the cab so I'm going for a two player control panel.

not to mention i have never been a fan off offsetting trackballs, it is in the middle or nothing for me!

I'm not a fan of offsetting trackballs either, I think they look much better in the middle but unfortunately I don't have room to do that and I couldn't think of any practical reasons as to why a trackball placed on the right won't work, besides I must play Centipede & Missile Command.

IMHO i think you might be over reaching your panel layout for the space you have.

You are probably right but I don't want to make it any wider and I think it can work.

Thank for your reply tba, I appreciate your input.

[RetroBorg]

I would not have 7 buttons for each joystick on an 18" control panel.  Get rid of the 7th button and conserve space.

I don't think the seventh button will take up any width due to it being located under the joysticks mounting plate. I mainly want this button for reverse in Defender but obviously it can be used in some fighting games as well.

If you do not plan on playing a lot of trackball games, then offsetting the trackball might make sense and might not, depending on what you want to achieve.  Your control panel layout has the trackball moved to the right side.   This is fine for a right-handed player since the actual player can still be centered in front of the monitor and can move the trackball with the right hand no problem (in my opinion).   However, if a left-handed player wanted to use the trackball, it might be a bit tough since they would need to stand to the left of "the cabinet" to make using the trackball feel comfortable.    So, I guess it just matters what you are trying to achieve with this control panel (ie: who you are trying to please basically).

I hadn't thought of the left handed thing and I guess what you are saying is right. My brother in-law is left handed and I can hear him whining now, I guess he'll have to get used to it. I'll make it up to him and buy him a left handed screw driver for his birthday. 

Did you measure everything to make sure all those controls you want can be mounted that close to each other?  Some controls like the trackball, spinner and rotary thing seem to take up a lot of mounting room underneath the control panel.   Some of your buttons seem like they would need more space.   You need to make sure you have enough space to twist on the nut to the button as well.

I used CP Sketcher to make that mockup and recommend it to anyone making a mockup, it seemed to fit alright on that, I obviously would make a cardboard mockup before I started cutting any wood.

CP Sketcher link: http://www.creditbutton.net.tc/

Seeing as your spinner, rotary knob and trackball are all lined up with each other from left to right ..... you could make this piece a modular piece of your cab.    Imagine the spinner, rotary and trackball are all mounted on one rectangle piece of MDF board.  You could then lift this rectangle out and rotate it 180 degrees (so from left to right you would have the trackball, rotary and spinner) and then place it back into the control panel space.  This would allow left-handed players the ability to use the trackball as well.

I think that would create a few problems as switches and axis get reversed, I don't really want to remap games every time a lefty plays, but it could make it on two bits of wood and swap their positions I guess.

Of course, you could simply mount the trackball in the middle and hopefully the player2 joystick will not get in the way when playing .......

I played around with CP Sketcher all day today and just couldn't make the trackball work in the middle, unfortunately player 2 seems way too close, and the underside of trackballs are so large too.

Thanks for your input unclet.

[RetroBorg]

Okay I've made up a mock panel, here's the results.

This picture shows the joysticks are no closer together than a Gottlieb showcase 4 player control panel:



This picture has the mock up panel sitting roughly where the actual panel would:



I was a bit worried about the trackball position before but for a right handed person it's great, lefties would struggle but I'm sure they are used to living in a right handed world.

[tba]

I was a bit worried about the trackball position before but for a right handed person it's great, lefties would struggle but I'm sure they are used to living in a right handed world.

well if you are comfortable with it then i would say OK, but i know that for me personally, i didn't want anyone walking away form my cab saying that the experience sucked, as left handed people are liable to do with that layout. especially with the new controllers, like the Keywiz QD and other USB solutions, that make it so easy to do multiple control panels, and swap them out on the fly.

[paigeoliver]

Most left handed players are used to arcade controls designed for right handed people, and are not going to have a lot of problems with it. Some real trackball games actually used a trackball that was offset to the right.

However with a panel that narrow, I would have only done a single player layout but I would have included a second joystick for robotron, etc. The rare times you have a second player you can plug in a gamepad (use the gamepad yourself and let the guests enjoy the good controls).

Also, it appears you are making the panel much deeper than stock, this might not be the best idea on a lowboy, since reaching for rear controls is a lot harder while sitting.

[RetroBorg]

Most left handed players are used to arcade controls designed for right handed people, and are not going to have a lot of problems with it. Some real trackball games actually used a trackball that was offset to the right.

That's good to hear, I don't want my brother in law having any lame excuses when I kick his butt. 

However with a panel that narrow, I would have only done a single player layout but I would have included a second joystick for robotron, etc. The rare times you have a second player you can plug in a gamepad (use the gamepad yourself and let the guests enjoy the good controls).

If I was only making it for myself I definitely would have done like you suggested but all our friends kids love coming over to my house to play the games and they really like to play the two player simultaneous type games like The Simpsons, Double Dragon, TMNT, Metal Slug, Do Donapachi etc. so it has to be a two player panel. The panel still works out fine for me as I can use player two's buttons for Defender and it's joystick for Robotron, Karate, Crazy Climber etc.

Also, it appears you are making the panel much deeper than stock, this might not be the best idea on a lowboy, since reaching for rear controls is a lot harder while sitting.

Yeah the panel is way deeper than stock for this model lowboy, it's original panel would of been 3 and half inches, this one will be twelve inches deep, which is the same as my Gottlieb showcase control panel.



I don't think you guys in the US had lowboys and if you did perhaps they were probably different to the one's we had here in Oz as ours weren't really designed to be played sitting, the control panel height is the same as a normal cabaret cabinet, having said that this proposed control panel will have about 8 and half inches of overhang from the cabinet which means you should be able to get a good part of your lap underneath the control panel on the right size stool which will allow greater reach on the control panel.

In fact just tested it out and it was real comfy, all controls reached easily.

[severdhed]

i tried to jam all of those controls into a 23" wide control panel, and i hated it.  it was ok when only one person was playing, but it was nearly impossible to get two adults in there to play without constantly hitting each other with our elbows.   i highly reccomend making a full mockup with the actual controls installed, fit it in the cabinet and have some a friend or two over for testing.  i used a piece of wood paneling, which is not very thick or durable, but it was stiffer than cardboard so it would support all of the controls and you could actually play on it.  but i found that after a few days, i knew that this would never keep me satisfied.

[Malenko]

I have to sort of second this, My MAME cab (converted Pengo) is 24" wide at the CP and 2 player games close quarters (no pun intended). Most of the time I'm playing solo, and when its my nephews playing they are fine, but anytime I take on my buddy in a fighter or my girl in a puzzle game, its clash of the elbows. 18" is just way too close for 2 player side by side unless you aussies are considerably smaller then us amuricins. Im 73"  180lbs

[xmenxmen]

I had similar idea as you from the beginning when converting a ms pacman over to mame.  Did the mockup on partical board and wire it all up and tried it out.  All I can say is I HATED it.  Now it has a LUSID type 34in wide cp.  From player one joystick to last button on player 2, it's about 25 or 26 in apart.  Had to cut the side to make the whole thing fit, but well worth it.  2 full size adult can play it comfortable.

Honestly if you keep in with the 18 or so size, I can bet that it won't take u long before u either hate it or start working on making it wider. 

[Justin Z]

Most left handed players are used to arcade controls designed for right handed people, and are not going to have a lot of problems with it. Some real trackball games actually used a trackball that was offset to the right.

DING DING DING DING DING!

I always wondered why people complained about offset trackballs when many people's favorite trackball game, Missile Command, was offset:



Not to mention the famous Atari sports trackball games:



And of course Marble Madness's trackballs were offset out of necessity.

[RetroBorg]

Most people here are really concerned with how tight it is between player one and two but it's no closer than my other control panel and it's really just for the kids.

I'm not into the fighting games and the only games I've played at the same time as somebody else in the last year would be Puzzle Bobble and Tetris Plus 2 against the wife.

The only exception to this is Track and Field and you only need 2 buttons each so it's not too much of an inconvenience.

The player two controls will work out nicely for games like Crazy Climber, Robotron, Karate and Defender.

[vettetekk]

I angled mine - I didn't make the "box" underneath the controls bigger, I just re cut the top at angles to make the players stand more separated. It works great!! But you may have clearance issues that I dint.  Its a neat effect, and you dint have to "seriously" modify the cab, just the control panel top. We play alot of track and field, and need the room for elbows a flyin!!

[severdhed]

i desperately wanted to keep my cabinet intact, but it was just too crowded..so i got brave and cut out the sides, and build a box with a wider panel, and i couldn't be happier with it.

but ultimately it is your cabinet, do what you want.  just be aware that we are speaking from experience here, you will probably get sick of being so crowded and build a bigger panel eventually.

and on a side note, track and field uses 3 buttons.

[vettetekk]

and on a side note, track and field uses 3 buttons.

Thanks for the tip. If you look at the pic of my panel, you'll see six buttons, the bottons are off set vertically in the center as they were on the real game. The bottom row of buttons are the ones used in the game. the other row and the joystick aren't used. I was making the reference to the game more for the point of panel spacing due to the fact that its a physical game where a possibility of bumping the other player is a factor. But that sometimes helps in a race!! LOL

[RetroBorg]

but ultimately it is your cabinet, do what you want.  just be aware that we are speaking from experience here, you will probably get sick of being so crowded and build a bigger panel eventually.

That's fair enough and that's why I posted my control panel layout for criticism but I feel comfortable with the room as I'm used to that much room on my current mame cab, I've probably had that mame cab for 4 years or so and no dramas yet.

I guess I was expecting to get more criticism on the placement of the spinner, trackball and 8-way rotary button thingy (what do you call that control anyway?). 

Or something like the Mini-Pac doesn't have enough connections or can't connect a Trackball, Spinner and buttons at the same time. I presume it can as no one has commented on that.

Or perhaps some criticism on the choice of joysticks.

and on a side note, track and field uses 3 buttons.

I know Track and Field has 3 buttons but I don't know of anyone who actually uses both of the run buttons.

[RetroBorg]

I angled mine - I didn't make the "box" underneath the controls bigger, I just re cut the top at angles to make the players stand more separated. It works great!! But you may have clearance issues that I dint.  Its a neat effect, and you dint have to "seriously" modify the cab, just the control panel top. We play alot of track and field, and need the room for elbows a flyin!!

That's a unique looking control panel you got there, it certainly creates more room.

I'm not a big fan of the angled control though, on my current cab players 3 and 4 are on angles and I've never really liked it.



Track and Field was one of my biggest worries because it's so physical but I've sussed out with my wife which buttons to map and we both believe we got plenty of room.